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Decentric
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Jon90 wrote:
I think Jedinak is a reasonable amount better than Milligan to be honest, his defensive statistics have been quite impressive this year. Though you did mention his weakness of being dribbled, which he does still struggle with a little. He has also been noted as a good leader by both Pulis and Holloway. Milligan, in my opinion, while a slightly superior dribbler and passer, I don't rate his decision making. I also think his defensive capabilities are quite a lot weaker than Jedinak's.
Overall, in a world cup context, I'd start Jedinak over Milligan (I didn't think they looked great together) - playing a full season as captain in an EPL side against far superior quality week in, week out will have prepared him better, even if he wasn't a better player.
Edited by Jon90: 28/4/2014 10:51:57 PM
Jedinak may be playing in a weak team against some brilliant teams, about five to seven of them, but the rest of the EPL isn't so good. There are a lot of teams that are good at playing at a very fast tempo and have super athletes, in the EPL, but these teams usually struggle on the European continent, where the game is more technical, with far greater tactical acumen required and significant rhythm changes occur in games. No doubting the quality of the top EPL teams, nearly all coached by coaches from nations on the continent who produce better football teams. I've watched a lot of the Spanish League and some Portuguese football recently. I think the mediocre EPL teams would struggle against the same ranked teams in Spain, maybe even Portugal. Milligan was also wanted by Palace. Jedinak also played a lot of games partnering Valeri, with minimal success. If we compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges, we evaluate players' performances for the national team, rather than what they do, or may not do, at club level. No doubt Jedda has improved this year. So has Milligan. Along with Ryan, they are possibly the most improved Soceroos over the last year. Milligan's handling speed may be a bit quicker than Jedinak's. He also play out well on both sides of the body. Like Jedinak, he is not that quick over the turf over the first five metres. Both read the game quite well and are still improving.
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Bowden
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^Agree 100%, Roary =d>
MV fans are so delusional :lol:
How the fuck can you compare old mate average A-League player to an EPL captain who has played every minute of every game and is finishing the season as one of the highest rated players in Europe??
"Oh but Milligan passes better... In the A-League... Where he never has any pressure on him and it's easy to look good".
If Milligan was as good as you MV idiots think, he would be playing at a higher level. Simple as that.
Edited by Bowden: 28/4/2014 11:13:16 PM
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GloryPerth
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To be fair to Milligan - he's always been a well identified, touted, talent and is incredibly experienced for his age, because of this. Flipside, he's also a kind of late bloomer, achievement wise, certainly taking the long road to get where he has and even then, he's still 'only playing A-League' at present. Though that could've changed earlier (With Palace bid) and could still change soon enough - depending on the impression he leaves this WC ofcourse. He's no doubt a better player than this league level - hopefully for his and our collective sake he can find the right club in the right level league - so he can be playing at the best possible level of his career during his prime years come the Asian Cup and beyond and finally put the under-achiever/late bloomer tag to rest! Perhaps some of us diminish Jedi too much - most of that understandably borne for what we've been exposed of him and his talents with the NT over Pim and Holger's eras. But credit to him, playing the level he is now (Sadly, ever more unique achievement these days) his game finally starting to refine - perhaps acclimatising to the high level he faces, week-in, week-out, combined with Ange's influence/expectations. He's put in some strong performances with the NT and finally started to play to the level we expect of our sole EPL star at present. It's great to see and ever more important, given the task that awaits us. We will need the combo of Milligan-Jedi to be playing out of their skins, as too the rest, to be sneaking the results we seek to 'surprise' let alone 'over-achieve' as we've done before! grazorblade wrote:quickflick wrote:grazorblade wrote:quickflick wrote:grazorblade wrote:jedi's stats
7 tackles 5 intercepts and 86% passing. If he averaged those passing stats each week he would be the best 6 australia has ever had To be fair, as regards the % passing, that's not enough information to ascertain how good he is (or whether that puts him in Australia's best ever). Regardless of how much pressure or whether or not they were low/high percentage passes, he has to be congratulated on getting 86% accuracy. But there's 86% passing accuracy and there's 86% passing accuracy. Obviously a player of Iniesta or Xabi Alonso's calibre is going to get a ridiculously high percentage of passing and some of those passes will be considerably more risky and have considerably greater pay-offs. So, don't get me wrong, I'm not slagging Jedinak off. I was fairly impressed with what I saw in the City game and very impressed with what I saw in the West Ham game. But you do need more information about the nature of the passes before you can canonise him, so to speak. well I think its his defensive effort which is so impressive. He has the most intercepts per game in europe and 3rd highest tackles per game in the epl. The fact that his passing was decent today makes him a calibre aboveany pkayer we have had I his position. Of course he normally gets 72 per cent Agreed on his defensive abilities and work-rate. But the fact that his passing was excellent today doesn't, in itself, make him a calibre above any player we have had in that position. Most of his passes were fairly conservative and City weren't looking to strangle Palace in the middle of the park. This meant that the vast, vast majority of Jedinak's passes were extremely high percentage and not overly difficult to make. This isn't a criticism of him, you can only play to the game plan/circumstances. But it means he can't get brownie points for something he didn't do. He wasn't often forced to play the ball around under lots of pressure, nor did he make many highly difficult passes or the kind of manoeuvres (passing and moving at speed) which tend to create lots of space. I think that Bresciano and Culina were of a higher calibre than Jedinak in terms of ball-carrying and distribution (the offensive part of a CDM), possibly Grella was too. But Jedinak is better than Bresciano and Culina in terms of tackles and intercepts, he's probably at least as good as Grella in the 2006 World Cup at it too, and that's very high praise indeed. was grella the best defender in the seri a before the 06 world cup? Jedi is defending on a level we have never seen before from an aussie For what it's worth, I remember Grella and Bresc had shown enough in Serie A just before that time, with Empoli, to draw interest from well reputed, top half of the table club, Parma. They were still relatively early into their Parma careers then and clearly both in or entering their peak years. I remember the talk of Grella, albeit from these shores, over the impression he was leaving other there. It's not to say he was amongst the best DMs in Serie A at that time (That would've been some achievement!!), but again, proof in pudding enough, one can read between the lines, that the impressions he left playing for Empoli were certainly enough to be signed by a club who were still a challenger for a European place, that era! Interestingly, Jedi is also in his peak period as a footballer, this WC! Edited by GloryPerth: 28/4/2014 11:37:16 PM
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Decentric
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roary's mane wrote:
This conversation is plainly ridiculous and can only stem from delusional MVFC fans, or people who are similarly suffering from some form of psychosis in which they believe A-League teams could compete week-in week-out with EPL teams.
Palace would trounce every single team in our league hands-down in a game that meant something.
Jedinak has probably been the best pure defensive midfielder in the EPL this year, definitely in the top 5.
People saying "he isn't the best dribbler, his passing range isn't as good" blah blah... that isn't his fucking job. The way people are talking about Milligan with his "dribbling" ability and better touch etc, you are looking at him as more of an 8 than a 6. That's like comparing Jedi to Yaya instead of Fernandinho/Flamini/Tiote/etc.
Bresciano will be playing the Stevie G/Yaya/Xavi role as deep lying playmaker (if we use one - unlikely as Ange will play Jedi/Millsy).
Jedi is an absolute monster, a captain and leader of a team that will finish in the top half of the EPL table (and carried them to promotion with the help of Zaha), and a player who strikes fear into opposing teams offenses.
Van Persie, Torres, etc will have no fucking idea who Milligan is, but they'll probably think twice before they try and run at Jedinak.
Jedinak>Milligan. End.
Edited by roary's mane: 28/4/2014 11:08:18 PM
In the 2006 World Cup, most players in the EPL also had no idea who Bresciano, Grella, Chipperfield and Wilkshire were either. They still played well in the World Cup. Jedinak has been playing for the Socceroos for years. He has improved and may have had a lucky break, years after had not even being deemed good enough for the HAL or the Croatian League. It is prudent to evaluate players as to how they play in the same arena. A few years ago, most coaches thought Jedda wasn't good enough for the HAL. He has proved them wrong. Rather than rhetoric, if you appraise players through football criteria, such as the four Core aspects of technique, game sense, ability to work within a team context and follow the game plans, communication, athleticism, speed over the turf, leadership, compatibility, strengths on the four main moments of the game, particularly Ball Possession and Ball Possession Opposition, all players have strengths and weaknesses. Milligan and Jedinak are probably the closest in what their strengths and weaknesses are. Also, I don't think that HAL teams can beat teams like Palace. However, there may be a few Oz players in the HAL, Spira, Millsy, McKay, Troisi, Brattan, who may have the skill set to succeed in international football, compared to a few players in the weaker EPL teams. Some English coaches are mediocre tacticians from poor training and don't know how to play the Proactive football conducive to international success. Remember Emo came straight out of the Blackburn first eleven, to only have modicum of success in the HAL, although he had a few injury issues I think. Heskey came straight out of the EPL too didn't he? Also, in football terms the 6 and 8 are both considered midfield screeners, or defensive midfielders in contemporary football nomenclature. Part of the role is being able to play forwards, by beating an opponent with good positioning, or a well timed fake, or check, with an effective first touch that breaks the line. Edited by Decentric: 28/4/2014 11:34:48 PM
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Decentric
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Bowden wrote:^Agree 100%, Roary =d>
MV fans are so delusional :lol:
How the fuck can you compare old mate average A-League player to an EPL captain who has played every minute of every game and is finishing the season as one of the highest rated players in Europe??
"Oh but Milligan passes better... In the A-League... Where he never has any pressure on him and it's easy to look good".
If Milligan was as good as you MV idiots think, he would be playing at a higher level. Simple as that.
Edited by Bowden: 28/4/2014 11:13:16 PM Milligan and Jedda have similar passing conversion rates in the Socceroos. Where it is really important not to make mistakes is in the defensive half. However, Milligan has been succeeding in executing more passes under pressure, killer passes, defence splitting passes and eye of the needle passes. The latter three categories are usually offensive moves in the attacking half. His handling speed enables him to receive and pass the ball on to another player, with one or two touches , a little more quickly than Jedda. Although as yet, he isn't quite up there with Culina, Bresc and Grella. Jedda is clearly a superior header of the ball over Milligan, although again the latter has improved in the last few years. Unti recently, I haven't seen Jedda gesticulate to other Socceroos, indicating he had only a modicum of confidence. Since Postecoglou didn't select a few veterans, he seems more confident as a leader in the side. Just on another note, Victory has just beaten Guangzhou Evergrande, last year the best club side in the world outside Europe and South America. They came third in the World Club championship. At full strength, I'd probably back Evergrande to beat Palace, if they had that heavily tattooed, blonde Italian player playing. Edited by Decentric: 29/4/2014 12:02:31 AM
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Decentric
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Jon90 wrote: Milligan, in my opinion, while a slightly superior dribbler and passer, I don't rate his decision making. I also think his defensive capabilities are quite a lot weaker than Jedinak's.
Overall, in a world cup context, I'd start Jedinak over Milligan (I didn't think they looked great together) - playing a full season as captain in an EPL side against far superior quality week in, week out will have prepared him better, even if he wasn't a better player.
Edited by Jon90: 28/4/2014 10:51:57 PM Milligan has probably made a few mistakes lately trying to execute fast, long range diagonal balls to further advanced players making effective forward runs in the HAL and ACL. However, the chance of a clear cut scoring opportunity for a team-mate has often been worth the risk. If the opposition wins the ball back close to their other defensive goal, it is not a critical turnover. Since Bresc is wasted at DM, our best combo since Grella/Culina has been Jedda/Milligan. Holland may have a better skill set than either, long term, but they have played better together than any other combo to date. We will still probably be thrashed in all three games in Brazil.:cry: Edited by Decentric: 29/4/2014 12:01:23 AM
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grazorblade
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hi decentric
you may have missed some recent developments :)
1. Palace are now a mid table epl team
2. Jedi's last 6 weeks of form has to be seen to be believed. He has played unbelievably week the last 6 weeks
3. Jedi has been named twice in a european team of the week
4. Its not just the last 6 weeks that have been impressive. He is number 1 in europe for intercepts a game. He is number 3 in the epl for tackles per game. The last 6 weeks he has also been roughly doubling his already impressive contribution.
5. whoscored.com rates him as the 8th best player in the epl.
Of course this doesn't mean this form will cross over to the epl and he has only occasionally shown signs of being good with the ball
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grazorblade
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Decentric wrote:This week's Aussies Abroad looks absolutely atrocious.:cry:
Other than keeper Ryan, Jedda, Holland, Oar, Sarota, Davidson, Vidosic, hardly any player was a starter in a decent league.
If Cahill, Kennedy, Sainsbury, Babalj, Bozanic, are sitting on benches, then few overseas Aussies are doing much better than the HAL. At least DeVere played a full game in the K League.
Not sure if I missed anyone else, but Bundesliga 2 isn't as good as about 12 Euro top divisions.
I just hope fans here are realistic about our chances at the upcoming World Cup. sainsbury cahill and bozanic have had trouble with injuries. All three were starters (although sainsbury only played one match before injury) Buli 2 is actually pretty decent
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paladisious
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quickflick wrote:Hopefully we can get Reno Piscopo back. Hope so too. He was wearing number 10 for Italy U16's in three recent friendlies in March and April, scoring against Poland as recently as the 9th of this month, but wasn't involved in the Elite Round qualifiers for the UEFA U/17 Championships which were around the same time. He was playing left wing in those three friendlies, first two of which were against Croatia.
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paladisious
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Happy to see Skapetis at Stoke with the backing of his old coaching team from QPR there, always a good sign to be poached. Also one to watch at Stoke is 20 year old CB Alex Grant. He's played the full 90 in all of Stoke's U21 Premier League season bar two games, and being subbed on at 80 minutes for another, and scored two goals. We're desperate for 9's and CB's so hope they flourish together. Edited by paladisious: 29/4/2014 02:23:16 AM
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paladisious
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Actually it seems Skapetis has already debuted for Stoke, on the last day of the U21 Premier League four fridays ago on the 4th, starting up front and playing 85 minutes. Good sign. Stoke City wrote:Development Squad finish season with 3-0 loss...
Stoke City Under-21s 0
Chelsea Under-21s 3 (Christensen 5, Kiwomya 60, Baker 89)
STOKE CITY'S hopes of finishing their Barclays Under-21s Premier League campaign on a high were dashed on Friday evening as they slipped to a 3-0 home defeat at the hands of Chelsea.
In front of a healthy gathering at the Britannia Stadium it was the visitors who dominated for long periods and deservedly took home all three points after displaying a cutting edge.
City demonstrated a number of good passing moves but in the end were unable to breakdown a Blues defence which had kept three clean sheets heading into the fixture.
On a mild evening in the Potteries it was the visitors who started on the front foot and after Reece Mitchell was denied at point-blank range by a superb reaction save from Daniel Bachmann, the Austrian ‘keeper will feel disappointed not to have dealt with Chelsea’s next attack as they took the lead in the 5th minute.
The Potters conceded a free-kick just inside their own half and after Lewis Baker played the ball deep inside the Stoke penalty area, defender Andreas Christensen beat Bachmann to the ball and headed in from close range.
Chelsea continued to have the lion’s share of possession, but it was City who went closest to levelling matters inside the opening quarter of the game when Alex Grant’s header trickled wide of the far post before Adam Thomas curled a 25-yard free-kick just over.
Despite their superior possession statistics the Blues failed to really threaten the Stoke goal until just before the interval when Bachmann more than made up for his early error to push away Marco Van Ginkel’s long-distance drive, before reacting magnificently to thwart Isaiah Brown’s follow up.
City then had a golden opportunity to pull themselves level just seconds before the referee’s whistle for half time but Peter Skapetis was unable to capitalise as he directed his close-range header straight at Mitchell Beeney in the Chelsea goal.
Glyn Hodges’ side carried their positive response at the end of the first half into the second period and after French midfielder Eddy Lecygne fired a 45-yard free-kick over, Skapetis went even closer when he found space on the edge-of-the-area before screwing an effort just wide of the keeper’s left-hand post.
Stoke’s early pressure wasn’t to last however and the Blues doubled their advantage with their first meaningful attack of the half as Alex Kiwomya latched onto John Swift’s defence splitting ball before rounding Bachmann and firing into an empty net.
The Potters tried to find a way back into the contest by playing some delightful football at times, but in the end their efforts were in vain as the Blues made it three in the final minute through Lewis Baker who fired a fierce shot past Bachmann from just inside the City penalty area.
Stoke City: Bachmann, Wheeler, O’Reilly, Ward, Grant, Watkins, Thomas, Lecygne, Skapetis (Rossi), Monlouis (Pappas 75), Taylor (Cook 72). Unused: Eve, Sanders.
Chelsea: Beeney, Ssewankambo, Davey, Christensen, Nditi, Van Ginkel (Cheek 70), Kiwomya, Baker, Brown (Dabo 57), Swift, Mitchell. Unused: Collins, Musonda, Houghton.
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paladisious
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Bowden wrote:^Agree 100%, Roary =d>
MV fans are so delusional :lol:
How the fuck can you compare old mate average A-League player to an EPL captain who has played every minute of every game and is finishing the season as one of the highest rated players in Europe??
"Oh but Milligan passes better... In the A-League... Where he never has any pressure on him and it's easy to look good".
If Milligan was as good as you MV idiots think, he would be playing at a higher level. Simple as that. > Slags off Victory fans for backing their captain.
> Has softcore porn of former CCM player in sig.Milligan's and Jedinak's differing qualities make them a complimentary pair in DM for the Socceroos. That's a good thing. And Milligan will be playing a higher level than the A-League very soon, that much is almost certain.
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paladisious
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Decentric wrote:Not sure if I missed anyone else, but Bundesliga 2 isn't as good as about 12 Euro top divisions. Which 12? I'd only place the Spanish, English, Italian, French, Portuguese, Dutch and Russian top leagues above Buli 2 as better for Australians, not including the Bundesliga itself of course. These are actually the current top 8 in the UEFA coefficients , which are followed in order by Ukraine, Belgium, Turkey, Greece, Switzerland, Austria, Czech Republic, Romania etc. I'd rather a young Australian player be in Buli 2 or the English Championship than those, unless it was in a particularly good club situation, for example Ryan looking at Champions League football next year. Decentric wrote:I just hope fans here are realistic about our chances at the upcoming World Cup. Does anyone not think we're screwed regardless? Most of the conversation from my reading is about finding the best squad to battle harden for the future, and Ange has stated that as his aim himself.
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paladisious
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Actually it seems Skapetis debuted for Stoke's U21's even earlier, playing the full 90 against Villa on the 24th last month. Didn't look at that game before as it was one of the two games Grant missed. Edited by paladisious: 29/4/2014 02:22:23 AM
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grazorblade
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paladisious wrote:
Does anyone not think we're screwed regardless?
No I don't I can't help but hope. I probably would still hope even if we were losing to america samoa and then facing spain two days later and our best 8 players got injured. I think that's what people mean by aussie spirit. The self delusion that we still have a chance occasionally becomes a self fulfilling prophesy
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sanga1
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grazorblade wrote:paladisious wrote:
Does anyone not think we're screwed regardless?
No I don't I can't help but hope. I probably would still hope even if we were losing to america samoa and then facing spain two days later and our best 8 players got injured. I think that's what people mean by aussie spirit. The self delusion that we still have a chance occasionally becomes a self fulfilling prophesy I myself have in recent times, been the person asking the former question, yet also have answered on a similar line to the latter. Where that leaves us is anyone's guess. All I know is that I'm so excited by the prospect of the upcoming WC, and I know our lads will distinguish themselves, and represent their shirt with pride!
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moofa
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Babalj scored for Jong AZ this morning vs Jong Feyenoord. Their game this weekend probably won't change their position and they are in terrible form so maybe he will get a chance but I doubt it. I think there is a good chance their top scorer Jóhannsson will leave this summer so hopefully they will look at promoting from within again instead of bringing more strikers above him
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Decentric
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grazorblade wrote:hi decentric
you may have missed some recent developments :)
1. Palace are now a mid table epl team
2. Jedi's last 6 weeks of form has to be seen to be believed. He has played unbelievably week the last 6 weeks
3. Jedi has been named twice in a european team of the week
4. Its not just the last 6 weeks that have been impressive. He is number 1 in europe for intercepts a game. He is number 3 in the epl for tackles per game. The last 6 weeks he has also been roughly doubling his already impressive contribution.
5. whoscored.com rates him as the 8th best player in the epl.
Of course this doesn't mean this form will cross over to the epl and he has only occasionally shown signs of being good with the ball Thanks mate.:) I stand corrected. Glad to see Palace have moved up the table. These Jedda stats are significant. Apart from the incredible pressure on the body from the intensity of the EPL, who knows, Milligan may be able to perform similarly to Jedinak in the EPL? The intercepts demonstrate vastly improved reading of the game from Jedda. His tackling is also outstanding. When I've seen Palace , they are have often played top EPL teams and have spent long periods of time without the ball. They are a good side in Ball Possession Opposition. I must also mention that Luongo fellow who plays in League one. He looked okay for the Soceroos.
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Decentric
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moofa wrote:Babalj scored for Jong AZ this morning vs Jong Feyenoord. Their game this weekend probably won't change their position and they are in terrible form so maybe he will get a chance but I doubt it. I think there is a good chance their top scorer Jóhannsson will leave this summer so hopefully they will look at promoting from within again instead of bringing more strikers above him To me Babalj looked to have a lot of raw talent in the HAL. The only thing a few Heart fans have said, is that his attitude may not be that good, with an unrealistic idea of his current development being better than it is.
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moofa
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A look at Halloran's mediocre start to being a chance to go to the world cup Quote:Fortune's Australian Halloran dreams of the World Cup
Dusseldorf. Fortune For Australians the Brazil-train after the recent strong performances and four hits is not yet traversed in series. Yet his debut against Fürth looked like a disaster. But since this game, a lot has happened - not just three head coach change.
For Ben Halloran October 7, 2013 seems light years away. That Monday evening in the Arena marked the first use of the Australian in a competitive match for Fortuna. Counter Football Bundesliga promotion aspirant Greuther Furth scored a super lucky 2-1 win. Halloran ran over long distances so behind the music that immediately raised the question of why sporting director Werner Wolf had actually invested EUR 300 000 in the midfield kicker Brisbane Roar.
Slow in movement, even slower in its decisions, technically more catastrophic: for example, the testimony of the first 45 minutes of the game was reading. Halloran was simply overwhelmed. The then-head coach Mike Büskens liked the "Aussie" but not demoralize, gave him a "second-half-chance." The used Halloran not really. And then sat up to Büskens farewell party at 0:2 against Karlsruher SC end of November again permanently outside.
It does not speak doppelganger
"Since this game is a lot happening," the 21-year-old blond boy admits with a grin. And the truly relates not only to the now three head coaching change in Fortuna. Half a year after the debut Fuerth is a flocculent other Halloran in Australian English, the interviews.
It is not a double. The youngster has the differences between the ten teams-making, "closed" A-League and the addition of the English Championship second best football league in the world worked sporty. And in this ballistic range: more willingness to run, less room means less time to think about the ball-processing, to increased defensive work and a better technique.
"My start was tough. Now I'm fully in the game, "said Halloran, who came from Brisbane Roar in the summer of 2013 to Fortuna, with a little pride in his voice. What added, is also a consequence of the many casualties in the Düsseldorf squad. The month-long failures of the bundesliga proven Axel Bellinghausen and Mathis Bolly are best examples of why Halloran only got his chance on two midfield wings.
Meanwhile 16 appearances are noted in the statistics. A hamstring in the winter preparation and a bruised hip shortly thereafter, although attracted a total of five weeks off for the Australians themselves. But that could not bring out the concept of the new arrival. On the contrary: since interim coach Oliver Reck his protege has moved from the left to the right side of midfield, it fluppt. 2:1 in Paderborn, 3-1 over Aalen, 3-0 Sandhausen, 4-0 against Aue - always met Ben Halloran for his Fortunen once into the net.
"This is a clinically-clean record, I would like to continue," affirms the former U-19 national team. On Sunday (15.30 clock, Wildlife Park Stadium) at Karlsruher SC is the next opportunity to get the small series alive.
Maybe then observed coach Ange Postecoglou, a native of Athens, the buzz. Even the World Cup squad for the Socceroos Brazil is not clear. "Whoever plays well, gets a chance," Halloran says diplomatically. It is quite possible that his friend Robbie Kruse helps him. Although bitterly Art The fleet-footed former Fortune in rows of Bayer 04 Leverkusen, who only in his second season aufdrehte really in Dusseldorf, fails because of a torn ACL in his knee for the World Cup in the offensive midfield.
An invitation had Halloran already on the table. Had but in the 3:4 test defeat in London against Cristian Ramirez 'Ecuadorians in early March due to injury.
Maybe it will work out in time for the World Cup. Three games Halloran has time to recommend for the biggest football tournament on the planet in the land of five-time world champion. On June 14 of the Fortune celebrates his 22nd birthday. The previous evening, the "Socceroos" start in the Arena Pantanal to Cuiaba against Chile in the tournament.
Making the twelfth man happy
At the World Cup Halloran thinks admittedly not very intense. "Fortuna has a crazy audience. At home usually get 30 000 fans, and away support is impressive. We must make our twelfth man happy. And place with good benefits an emotional foundation for the new season, "says Halloran end of the season. Then it might work well with the Bundesliga. And Halloran would occur permanently in the footsteps of his compatriot Robbie Kruse at Fortuna. http://www.derwesten.de/sport/fussball/fortuna/fortunas-australier-halloran-traeumt-von-der-wm-id9288624.html
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thupercoach
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Decentric wrote:moofa wrote:Babalj scored for Jong AZ this morning vs Jong Feyenoord. Their game this weekend probably won't change their position and they are in terrible form so maybe he will get a chance but I doubt it. I think there is a good chance their top scorer Jóhannsson will leave this summer so hopefully they will look at promoting from within again instead of bringing more strikers above him To me Babalj looked to have a lot of raw talent in the HAL. The only thing a few Heart fans have said, is that his attitude may not be that good, with an unrealistic idea of his current development being better than it is. No idea about his attitude but the groin injuries wouldn't have helped.
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quickflick
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roary's mane wrote:Jon90 wrote:Decentric wrote:quickflick wrote:grazorblade wrote:quickflick wrote:grazorblade wrote:quickflick wrote:grazorblade wrote:jedi's stats
7 tackles 5 intercepts and 86% passing. If he averaged those passing stats each week he would be the best 6 australia has ever had To be fair, as regards the % passing, that's not enough information to ascertain how good he is (or whether that puts him in Australia's best ever). Regardless of how much pressure or whether or not they were low/high percentage passes, he has to be congratulated on getting 86% accuracy. But there's 86% passing accuracy and there's 86% passing accuracy. Obviously a player of Iniesta or Xabi Alonso's calibre is going to get a ridiculously high percentage of passing and some of those passes will be considerably more risky and have considerably greater pay-offs. So, don't get me wrong, I'm not slagging Jedinak off. I was fairly impressed with what I saw in the City game and very impressed with what I saw in the West Ham game. But you do need more information about the nature of the passes before you can canonise him, so to speak. well I think its his defensive effort which is so impressive. He has the most intercepts per game in europe and 3rd highest tackles per game in the epl. The fact that his passing was decent today makes him a calibre aboveany pkayer we have had I his position. Of course he normally gets 72 per cent Agreed on his defensive abilities and work-rate. But the fact that his passing was excellent today doesn't, in itself, make him a calibre above any player we have had in that position. Most of his passes were fairly conservative and City weren't looking to strangle Palace in the middle of the park. This meant that the vast, vast majority of Jedinak's passes were extremely high percentage and not overly difficult to make. This isn't a criticism of him, you can only play to the game plan/circumstances. But it means he can't get brownie points for something he didn't do. He wasn't often forced to play the ball around under lots of pressure, nor did he make many highly difficult passes or the kind of manoeuvres (passing and moving at speed) which tend to create lots of space. I think that Bresciano and Culina were of a higher calibre than Jedinak in terms of ball-carrying and distribution (the offensive part of a CDM), possibly Grella was too. But Jedinak is better than Bresciano and Culina in terms of tackles and intercepts, he's probably at least as good as Grella in the 2006 World Cup at it too, and that's very high praise indeed. was grella the best defender in the seri a before the 06 world cup? Jedi is defending on a level we have never seen before from an aussie I didn't get the opportunity to watch much of the Serie A in the time that Grella was there, so I can't answer that question. But, based on reports and second hand knowledge, he probably wasn't as good as a defensive player in the Serie A as Jedinak is a defensive player in the Premier league. However Grella was judged one of the best defensive players at the 2006 FIFA World Cup. This is enormously high praise and means that one has to qualify the assertion that Jedinak has provided the best defence out of any Australian player ever. Maybe we could say he's the most consistent defensive Australian player ever. In any event, I still think that while Jedinak is handy going forward, his passing and movement is not of the calibre of the likes of Culina and Bresciano which does indeed create lots of space. So defensively, one of our best ever. Offensively, handy, but not one of our best ever. This makes it hard to place him among the best handful of Socceroos ever without hesitation. But the good this is that, going into the future, if we pair Jedinak alongside a quicker, more fluid and highly technical CDM like Sarota (or De Silva, if he can play deeper), we're going to have one hell of an engine room. We'll be very strong in the middle of the park against any Asian nation. And we may be able to give a very good account of ourselves, in that part of the field, against good European and South American nations. What we really need is strikers who can dominate in 1 vs 1 situations. If we get that, and Rogic comes good, we're in a great position going into the future. Hopefully we can get Reno Piscopo back. Jedinak is not playing in a particularly strong EPL team. The lower teams in the EPL ladder are similar in quality to the better Championship teams. Palace are nothing like the top teams in the EPL. Usually when they play the Manchesters, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, they look like a team from two divisions below. I'm not convinced that Jedinak is any better than Milligan. The better J League teams are considered by one English football journo, now residing in Japan, to be inferior to the lower EPL teams. i haven't seen Sarota play for the Socceroos , but Milligan is close to the first Socceroo on the team sheet. Both he and Jedinak have made rapid improvement in the lest couple of years and combine well together. As soon as Jedda went off last time, the skipper's armband went to Milligan, so Postecoglou rates him highly. Jedinak's defensive weakness is lack of mobility and slow recovery if beaten. He used to struggle against nimble Asian teams, being dribbled around a lot, but he has improved. The one area he is our best midfielder, defensively, is in heading. Jedda is in a class of his own there. Nobody comes near him from the last 6 years. One thing that Milligan does better than Jedda, is that he has started beating players with his first touch, and has started dribbling around players in tight spaces. Other than Holland and Bresciano, maybe McKay on occasions, none of our other DMs have been able to do this. Jedda cannot. Both Jedda and Millsy are both good tacklers. A further aspect is compatibility and fitting into a team. For some reason, Millsy seems to have lifted players around him since playing in the the Socceroos. When he came on, he was the only player to hold his head up, along with Bresc, against Brazil, or France, in those debacles. How can they look like a team two divisions below, what does that make a team two divisions below look? ](*,) I think Jedinak is a reasonable amount better than Milligan to be honest, his defensive statistics have been quite impressive this year. Though you did mention his weakness of being dribbled, which he does still struggle with a little. He has also been noted as a good leader by both Pulis and Holloway. Milligan, in my opinion, while a slightly superior dribbler and passer, I don't rate his decision making. I also think his defensive capabilities are quite a lot weaker than Jedinak's. Overall, in a world cup context, I'd start Jedinak over Milligan (I didn't think they looked great together) - playing a full season as captain in an EPL side against far superior quality week in, week out will have prepared him better, even if he wasn't a better player. Edited by Jon90: 28/4/2014 10:51:57 PM This conversation is plainly ridiculous and can only stem from delusional MVFC fans, or people who are similarly suffering from some form of psychosis in which they believe A-League teams could compete week-in week-out with EPL teams. Palace would trounce every single team in our league hands-down in a game that meant something. Jedinak has probably been the best pure defensive midfielder in the EPL this year, definitely in the top 5. People saying "he isn't the best dribbler, his passing range isn't as good" blah blah... that isn't his fucking job. The way people are talking about Milligan with his "dribbling" ability and better touch etc, you are looking at him as more of an 8 than a 6. That's like comparing Jedi to Yaya instead of Fernandinho/Flamini/Tiote/etc.Bresciano will be playing the Stevie G/Yaya/Xavi role as deep lying playmaker (if we use one - unlikely as Ange will play Jedi/Millsy). Jedi is an absolute monster, a captain and leader of a team that will finish in the top half of the EPL table (and carried them to promotion with the help of Zaha), and a player who strikes fear into opposing teams offenses. Van Persie, Torres, etc will have no fucking idea who Milligan is, but they'll probably think twice before they try and run at Jedinak. Jedinak>Milligan. End. Edited by roary's mane: 28/4/2014 11:08:18 PM But the point is that really, really brilliant CDMs have the defensive and offensive skills. They can screen like Jedinak (or usually not quite as well as him), but they're significantly better on the ball. What holds Jedinak back from those guys is that they're more likely to distribute and carry the ball well. You make the suggestion that Jedinak ought to be compared to players like Fernandinho. Well a player like Fernandinho is a lot more technically adept and a lot quicker. Those skills make his team more likely to score and less likely to concede (because they're less likely to lose possession). If Jedinak had those kind of skills then he'd be the whole package, but he doesn't. Having said that, Jedinak is what he is. And given how crap Australia is, they have to pick him. He has to play in the middle of the park, instead of Milligan. And he has to play alongside Sarota, who is our best "deep lying playmaker". Sarota and Jedinak have different skills, and hopefully each makes up for the others shortcomings and they're a really powerful CDM combination.
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one_toouch
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Bowden wrote:^Agree 100%, Roary =d>
MV fans are so delusional :lol:
How the fuck can you compare old mate average A-League player to an EPL captain who has played every minute of every game and is finishing the season as one of the highest rated players in Europe??
"Oh but Milligan passes better... In the A-League... Where he never has any pressure on him and it's easy to look good".
If Milligan was as good as you MV idiots think, he would be playing at a higher level. Simple as that.
Edited by Bowden: 28/4/2014 11:13:16 PM Amen
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jlm8695
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Bowden wrote:^Agree 100%, Roary =d>
MV fans are so delusional :lol:
How the fuck can you compare old mate average A-League player to an EPL captain who has played every minute of every game and is finishing the season as one of the highest rated players in Europe??
"Oh but Milligan passes better... In the A-League... Where he never has any pressure on him and it's easy to look good".
If Milligan was as good as you MV idiots think, he would be playing at a higher level. Simple as that.
Wow attack more, I can't even see a MV fan saying Milligan> Jedinak before you posted this :lol: For the Socceroos however, Milligan has performed better than Jedinak in recent times, two completely different things which you think means we think Milligan> Jedinak, which I don't think I've ever seen one MV fan say. They'll both play together in the world cup and will do a very good job. They make a good pair with their respective strengths, it doesn't have to be a him v him mentality that you make it out to be. There's too much Millsy hate in your blood. Edited by jlm8695: 30/4/2014 09:59:55 AM
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pv4
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paladisious wrote:And Milligan will be playing a higher level than the A-League very soon, that much is almost certain. :lol: I genuinely cannot wait for this circus again. All your SST's saying #facts and #gone, all your MV supporters posting severe anticipation-style butthurt and snapping at anyone for thinking that Milligan is worth less than $10million. Oh man, what times. Milligan truly is the A-League's Carlos Tevez when it comes to this kind of thing.
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jlm8695
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pv4 wrote:paladisious wrote:And Milligan will be playing a higher level than the A-League very soon, that much is almost certain. :lol: I genuinely cannot wait for this circus again. All your SST's saying #facts and #gone, all your MV supporters posting severe anticipation-style butthurt and snapping at anyone for thinking that Milligan is worth less than $10million. Oh man, what times. Milligan truly is the A-League's Carlos Tevez when it comes to this kind of thing. Do not lump us in with Girt. I also seem to remember a few vintage posts from yourself during that saga, will you be able to provide the lols again?
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pv4
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jlm8695 wrote:pv4 wrote:paladisious wrote:And Milligan will be playing a higher level than the A-League very soon, that much is almost certain. :lol: I genuinely cannot wait for this circus again. All your SST's saying #facts and #gone, all your MV supporters posting severe anticipation-style butthurt and snapping at anyone for thinking that Milligan is worth less than $10million. Oh man, what times. Milligan truly is the A-League's Carlos Tevez when it comes to this kind of thing. Do not lump us in with Girt. I also seem to remember a few vintage posts from yourself during that saga, will you be able to provide the lols again? From memory the only "vintage" post was one that notorganic had sigged, which didn't even made sense why he sigged, didn't prove a point and I found more funny that he had sigged it than what I assume was his aim with it. In the post I had a lol at the desperation all the MV fans were showing at not letting Milligan go (because I genuinely found it funny how intensely they argued any scrap of evidence that he was wanting to leave, and how scathing they were of anyone who voiced an opinion as to thinking he would leave and for how much he would be worth), and then voiced my opinion that I thought he would leave (and blatantly labelled it my opinion, and in no way said I "knew" or "facts" that it would happen), and then enquired as to what Paartalu was up to and whether if Milligan goes would he be a decent replacement. There were at least 10 other posts more vintage and sig-worthy at the time, I still don't get why he picked mine out :lol: Edited by pv4: 30/4/2014 10:19:09 AM
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Decentric
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paladisious said
Which 12? I'd only place the Spanish, English, Italian, French, Portuguese, Dutch and Russian top leagues above Buli 2 as better for Australians, not including the Bundesliga itself of course. These are actually the current top 8 in the UEFA coefficients , which are followed in order by Ukraine, Belgium, Turkey, Greece, Switzerland, Austria, Czech Republic, Romania etc. I'd rather a young Australian player be in Buli 2 or the English Championship than those, unless it was in a particularly good club situation, for example Ryan looking at Champions League football next year.I was surmising 12. Thanks for providing the leagues.:) Since you've added them, I'd say that the English, German, Spanish, French, Portuguese, Italian, Russian, Dutch, Belgian, Greek, Turkish, Austrian and Ukrainian leagues should all be better than Bundesliga 2. There are often 2 top quality teams in the Swiss, Croatian, Serbian, Czech and Scottish leagues, who are infinitely superior to most teams in Bundesliga 2. As far as second divisons, the English, Spanish, and Italian second tier leagues would be similar to Bundesliga 2. Paul Agostino thought the HAL matched it a few years ago when he returned from the German Bundesliga 2 to play with AU.
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moofa
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Holland and his teammate Kamara showed support of Alves and his reactions to a banana being thrown at him. 
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Eastern Glory
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jlm8695 wrote:pv4 wrote:paladisious wrote:And Milligan will be playing a higher level than the A-League very soon, that much is almost certain. :lol: I genuinely cannot wait for this circus again. All your SST's saying #facts and #gone, all your MV supporters posting severe anticipation-style butthurt and snapping at anyone for thinking that Milligan is worth less than $10million. Oh man, what times. Milligan truly is the A-League's Carlos Tevez when it comes to this kind of thing. Do not lump us in with [size=9] Girt[/size]. I also seem to remember a few vintage posts from yourself during that saga, will you be able to provide the lols again? I miss him :cry:
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