You are right about Macca's link up play being good. It was.

However, he was completely outmuscled and overpowered by opposition Asian CBs.

He was a goal sneak for Celtic, needing to play off a target striker.




I don't know whether Leckie would make a Leverkusen bench?

But by playing on a weekly basis he is playing against players as good as any players in the world at club level. The Bundesliga is similar quality to Spain and the EPL.

This.

Anyone doubting what a fit Kruse can do should re watch the game against Costa Rica or the 2nd last qualifier in Melbourne (Oman?). He is our most dangerous dribbler by a long way and a much bigger threat than the others. Burns hasn't learnt to transfer his club form to the national stage, leckie has a bad case of the McDonalds and Oar struggles to pose a threat on goal. Decent teams mark him out of the game.

His ACL.

Unequivocally, Rogic and Burns are better dribblers and ball carriers in confined spaces.

Kruse is possibly the best dribbler in open spaces, with Burns very close behind.


It is true about Burns not taking his HAL form to the international arena .

However, it is partly due to our defenders' capabilities. They are often very good in muscular strength duels, heading duels and 50 /50 tacking duels. What they are not so good at is when players have the ball and run at them, where they have to jockey, show and delay.

Burns was a handful for HAL defenders. At international level the defenders are often better than our locals at delaying, jockeying and showing.

One pleasing phenomenon is developing. Australia is developing a tough tackling, ball winning , attacking mid player. They are reasonable on the ball, but are very competitive against opposition defensive ball winners. This often unsettles them.

This is resulting in disturbing build ups in the defensive half. Milligan, Mooy, Luongo, Troisi , Holland, Antonis and Brillante, are this type of modern central midfielder, who Vince Grella states are expected to have attacking and defensive quality.


At the same time players like Josh Kennedy, a proven performer at international level, struggle with the physical strength of HAL defenders.

Even though we have become a nation obsessed on improving our technical and tactical qualities, many imports have been blown away by the physical strength, muscularity and will to win of Aussie players. Broich said Aussie defenders tackle harder than the Bundesliga.

Harry Kewell said the HAL is much harder to play in , because of the physicality of players, which cannot be experienced by watching it.

At the same time Asian opposition have desperately tried to improve their physicality since we've been in the Asian Confed. South Korea was a very physical side in the Asian Cup final - hard but fair.

We are also start to produce ball playing and good ball winning CBs like Spira, Sainsbury and Devere.




I should also add that the archetypal big, target striker in Australia, like Juric and Simon, used to muscular HAL CBs, are effective against Asian opposition.

The Asian teams find them to be awkward opponents. Juric's tenacity, physical strength, use of the body and skill was the decisive action that won the Asian Cup for Australia.






Edited by Decentric: 19/8/2015 06:36:59 PM

Keep in mind kruse had an acl
if u want to see what he was like at club level go back to his game against jordan where he scored a goal and set up two

also your stats decentric probably show how well a player adjusts to jetlag as well as their skill

Even in a long tournament like the world cup teams in the same timezone punched above their weight

burns was in oz when the asian cup was on so that will help

True.

1st. thanks for taking the time to talk through your position and analysis - as always its probably one of the most informative and structured pieces on this entire website. possibly the most informative player analysis of anything that is accessible about the NT.

2nd. terry antonis in the sydney fc v chelsea game exemplified your above comments. hard tackling and driven, i cant wait to see him step up competition. hopefully he keeps up his intensity. i wish he was offered a spot in the english championship or even the SPL.

reading through this debate I am unsure of what it is even about anymore. Is it Kruse needs to leave? Who is better, Kruse or Leckie? or we should choose 2 of Leckie, Kruse and Burns?

My two cents is Kruse at full fitness is probably better but I doubt he is there yet and for the last 18 months Leckie has been our best winger. He is a bit blunt and hasn't scored too much but creates chances and probably should have a few more assists if not for other players. He also worries defenders and fullbacks often make errors and rarely do anything going forward against him. Burns has improved (or at least shown his ability) this season but I would still put him below the other two. Burns does have the advantage of being able to play through the centre and against Bangladesh or what should be a good pitch I would probably start Leckie-Burns-Kruse bringing Cahill on late and the start Cahill in the theoretically harder match on a worse pitch in a couple of days.

Anyway I didn't come here to join in that debate. I just thought I should mention most of the football league played overnight. Wright kept another clean sheet (only championship side not to concede) and apparently had the best chance at the other end with a header off the post but the game ended 0-0.

Bradden Inman (when was he last mentioned here) opened his account in a 3-2 loss, Crewe is expected to be relegated so he will have to step up, he has started the first three games of the season.

Cisak kept a clean sheet for Leyton Orient in a 3-0 win as they start the season as one of three league two sides on a perfect 9 points.

Sounds like Wright can't score a header to save his life this season, but he's keeping them out like a boss!

Wash your mouth out

Decentric, in that above post, I feel like you've made a few assumptions based on what people expected rather than actual facts. I'd argue that Kennedy had no issues with the physicality, rather he struggled with the lack of aerial service from his teammates. Watching him for City was so cringeworthy. The guy made unrewarded run, after unrewarded run.

I think we need to be careful about turning accusations into facts.

Another example was people claiming here that Langerak must have been lied to about his squad role at Dortmund, and only a couple of weeks later here, an unnamed mod (who is known for making naive points about pro-football) spat out the line that it was common for managers to lie to keepers about their squad roles in a season.

Edited by eastern glory: 19/8/2015 04:39:28 PM

i like the championship. the spl has gotten better over the last couple years. still, i do feel dirty for saying that.

i remember when he heel tapped it over badstuber that was awesome

Kruse is a more complete winger imo. Leckie more like Holman with a crazy work rate but a bit scrapy. Leckie I think is the better cf just because of his strength a false 9 role could ork for him to help free up others etc

It doesn't, necessarily, mean they're worse either.

Judge each case on its merits. But, after youth level, players should be encouraged to go to clubs where they'll get gametime. Too many of our players have made poor decisions.

Kruse is a better winger, Leckie is useful but as an impact player. Leckie lacks touch, 1 vs 1 ability, decision-making skills and finishing. Until these are rectified, he's not going to be an ideal winger or striker for Australia.

Kruse, while being a somewhat limited winger because he lacks close control for 1 vs 1, is a very handy winger.

Ideally, Australia need a proper striker with 1 vs 1 ability and finishing ability and you have Rogic sat behind him and Kruse on the right and Oar/Ikonomidis on the left. Then Luongo and Brillante behind Rogic.

That would be the type of side we'd want to start with in Russia 2018 (assuming we qualify). Then you can bring Leckie and Cahill off the bench to inject a bit of raw pace, power and aerial ability.

Will rogic play tonight?

Nae, I cannae invision it.

To those who watch Celtic regularly, what's the set-up with Rogic and Johansen? Does Deila ever start with both of them? Can they both start?

I was under the impression they both play CAM. Johansen has played a lot for Celtic.

Edited by quickflick: 19/8/2015 05:58:35 PM

Kennedy relied too heavily on perfect service in the HAL. Cahill is able to make more of limited opportunities for less than perfect service.

Jesus is one of my all time favourite Socceroos. However, his 1v1 attacking skills on the ground were exposed in the HAL. Also, his ball carrying was too slow, being constantly caught too quickly by players chasing him.

In Socceroo games he was more than able to hold his own against one, or even two Asian CBs for the Socceroos.






Edited by Decentric: 19/8/2015 06:58:13 PM

There are a lot of lies told to players by coaches in the NPL. Players have moved to clubs being promised they will be played in midfield, instead of full back. Then the coach has done an about face.

Other players have been told they are an integral part of the coach' s plans before the season, when they are not.

Actually, I've been disgusted with coaches being disingenuous with players. I'm probably a lot more honest.

Hope so.

I think in the two games Rogic has played they've swapped between AM and CM/DM. Rogic didn't play on the weekend I presume because it was their 3rd game in 7 days. I'll dare say he starts in the morning though for this big game.

Is it on TV?

What time and which station if it is?

Only Pay TV I'm pretty sure. I'll be streaming it. PM sent...

Edited by ryan2008: 19/8/2015 07:01:53 PM

Only on BeIn Sports as far as I know. Not on SBS or SBS2.
4.45 am AEST, 2.45 am here in Perth.

I'm sure it will be streamed too, If you know a reliable stream and are happy to get up early to watch it.

In the SPFL, Deila plays a 4-2-3-1 with a high defensive line and 3 Attacking Midfielders that largely stay central and rotate between positions to drag defenders out of position. For European games, the attacking midfielders generally are played as orthodox wingers and the midfield drops a bit deeper. This also happens in some SPFL games when Celtic are finding it hard to break down a set defence and start looking to draw out their opposition and create chances on the counter instead.

The two DM's are usually one Deep Lying Playmaker who sits deep and looks to pass his way forward and a slightly more advanced and physical player who provides a link between the two midfield lines with his sharp movement in the middle of the pitch as well as aggressively press the opposition midfield in BPO.

These roles are generally filled by Nir Biton and Scott Brown respectively and both IMO are totally unsuitable for Rogic.

In the Attacking Midfield, we have a gluttony of options. Rogic is competing for game time with Forrest, Mackay-Steven, Armstrong, Commons and Johansen. All of those except Forrest are capable of playing in the Playmaker role however Johansen and Commons are Rogic's main competitors as they are generally only played in the middle and the others are generally used in the wider roles.

Is it champions league qualifier? I'd be shocked if he started, and surprised if he came on. Good luck to him though

melbourne terrace

Thanks for that. I really appreciate it. You've been very concise but extremely informative. That paints the picture fairly clearly.

I agree that Rogic isn't a CDM and it's asking for trouble. He's only really decent at CAM.

Out of interest, who's the best CAM out of Commons, Johanesen and Rogic, do you think?

How do they match up in skillsets? Are they quicker than Rogic/make better decisions in a hurry? Is their passing more accurate and penetrative than Rogic's passing? Are they better 1 vs 1 than Rogic?

Sorry for the barrage of questions.

fixed