Tom Rogic indeed had talks with Reading sometime ago hope all goes well for him.

This is spot on. Also, previously Rogic's potential would have been identified by the AIS coaches and he would have been offered a non-residential spot which was put in place for local players.

This is a real problem the current APl trials in queensland, football queensland have nominated players and said they have to be picked and don't even trial.other kids that were picked in state squads have been picked into the teams even if they trialled terrible or not even in the top 16 players.other players who I watched the other night who were head and shoulders above many of the players i.e. in the top 4 or 5 were cut because they didn't have any one pushing for them.Other players who's parents are directors at the clubs or on committee's the kids are picked.This and identify kids at 10 years old and then leaving them in the pathway system even when at 12 or 13 they are no longer one of the better players.The other problem is certain coaches who have kids on the side have contacts in football queensland so these kids also get picked.If your child has talent get a good coach and play somewhere he enjoys playing and when he gets old enough send him overseas and a least they will look at him and give you a true report on where he is at or if they think he will/can make it.

I was praying for better this time.

In regards to players being chosen after they have stopped being a stand out player.
I think it is like the king with no clothes. No one wants to admit that they where wrong or that they just don't like the way they play now. So they keep selecting them so no one thinks they are stupid for leaving them out.

http://deoxy.org/emperors.htm

An interesdting comment by Ange Postecoglou on this mornings SEN Radio.

"AFL knows who the top 18 youth players are, unfortunately in our code we wouldn't know who ours are if they were sitting next to us having a coffee."

Also have a listen to Ange on Friday about what he sees in Andrew Naboutt;

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio/Melbourne-Victory-coach-Ange-Postecoglou/6558

Arthur until the corruption stops at all levels and we become more transparent you and I know it will not happen. I also think and many would not agree ,now possibly could be the time for our AFL friends to come into our game. The level of communication with Euro clubs very prominent, this week I attended a meeting in a club and caught up with a high profile AFL employee.

Also who would you trust to complete this list To be completely honest the majority do not trust the FFA. Let alone state federations. Not knowing Ange he comes across as a person who say's it as is .I feel he is a new age Manager clear mind no favourites its about the good of the team and club????.

Remind me, how many promising young AFL players are spread across the globe? :lol:

If Ange wants to know who are the top youth players he needs to get out and watch them play occasionally.

Edited by judy free: 19/11/2012 11:28:50 AM

I am comming to the firm belief that State teams and the selection process around them should be abolished. They are a waste of resources in a geographically large country.

As to other programs like NTC.

We would be better off making sure more of our youth had access to better coaching.

Great thread fellas =d> so pleased that people with current actual experience are posting, it has been a great read!

I can't say I see that as a good idea.

To abolish NTCs/state teams could possibly stunt the development of a broader pathway.
If the NTCs/state teams are nurtured and run by coaches with a genuine emphasis on development (which, I'll agree, doesn't seem to necessarily be the case with some/most, but these things can't/won't change overnight), these could branch into bigger things; think regional development centres. Given time to get the coaches required in a more widespread area, something like that can become a possibility and, as such, a bigger catchment for the talent pool, allowing for more players to be seen by all. (This includes being picked up quicker by A-League clubs on top of the regular state/AIS pathways.)
If we got rid of these entirely, there's less chance of these sorts of systems - or any at all - finding and developing any possible talent outside of the metro regions.

I would replace NTC programs with more SAP programs, so more kids go through rather than the narrow groups currently going through.
And I would expect they play for their clubs on the weekend and not in the isolated enviroment that is currently the case.

I may be an outsider (even if an interested one) but have to whole heartily agree with the widening of the pathways rather than the narrowing of them. To steal a pet saying from Chips, the cream rises to the top - the only problem is we tend to throw 90% of the milk away before it has time to do so.

Rather OT, but here's an 8y-o kid from the FootballStar Academy(can't vouch for what right/wrong they're doing) who was featured in a Herald Sun article today:

http://www.footballstaracademy.com.au/player_profiles.asp?id=1442

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/children-dream-of-being-sporting-superstars-rather-than-doctors-and-lawyers-when-they-grow-up/story-e6frf7kx-1226519903271

The whole pathway system is a flake.

The AIS choose players from the second tier of aus football. Meaning each states tier 1 state league clubs.

Each states tier 1 IE: NSWPL or VICPL or QLDPL clubs are heavily reliant on cash and resources provided to keep them viably operating. This causes conflicts in their selection processes which is then later pushed at AIS & NSWIS selectors. Therefore what is being offered to the AIS and NSWIS as options for selection is conflicted with respect to genuine talent. This is also why today many are complaining there is nothing in the way of talent coming through the system.

So basically the cream are not reaching the top as there is a cream filter in place in the tier 1 of each states top league. This does not allow the cream to reach AIS or NSWIS and instead fill these spots with players who are a conflict of best talent.

Anything below tier 1 in each state amounts to poorly run clubs with poor coaches. Tier 1 are at least semi pro in the way they run their clubs. Tier 2 are complete amatuers and contributing nothing.

Cream would rise to the top if their was not the massive processing removing the cream and leaving just watered down milk.

The whole system is terrible. The system being so bad and corrupt is also the reason for all these private academies leeching of people who the system failed.

Sorry to say this but football here has not changed in over 30 years from what i've seen. It doesn't appear to matter who replaces who, what clubs replace what clubs or which systems replace what systems.

The open trial processes are a pisstake to make people think there is open fair transparency and the best players will be selected. Nothing could be further from the truth.

In a nutshell the whole system is flawed/corrupted/conflicted from top to bottom.

The whole pathway system is a flake.

The AIS choose players from the second tier of aus football. Meaning each states tier 1 state league clubs.

Each states tier 1 IE: NSWPL or VICPL or QLDPL clubs are heavily reliant on cash and resources provided to keep them viably operating. This causes conflicts in their selection processes which is then later pushed at AIS & NSWIS selectors. Therefore what is being offered to the AIS and NSWIS as options for selection is conflicted with respect to genuine talent. This is also why today many are complaining there is nothing in the way of talent coming through the system.

So basically the cream are not reaching the top as there is a cream filter in place in the tier 1 of each states top league. This does not allow the cream to reach AIS or NSWIS and instead fill these spots with players who are a conflict of best talent.

Anything below tier 1 in each state amounts to poorly run clubs with poor coaches. Tier 1 are at least semi pro in the way they run their clubs. Tier 2 are complete amatuers and contributing nothing.

Cream would rise to the top if their was not the massive processing removing the cream and leaving just watered down milk.

The whole system is terrible. The system being so bad and corrupt is also the reason for all these private academies leeching of people who the system failed.

Sorry to say this but football here has not changed in over 30 years from what i've seen. It doesn't appear to matter who replaces who, what clubs replace what clubs or which systems replace what systems.

The open trial processes are a pisstake to make people think there is open fair transparency and the best players will be selected. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I agree

+1 Aussiesrus....
It pains me to agree on this, like you having seen this in my youth some 30yrs ago as well I see this again and worse imo. Started 2 seasons ago with my 2nd son.
I was just at a Trial last night for he, watching from the sideline another Father I know had mentioned of a Trial attended some 2wks ago I couldn't be there, he pointed out this solid moving forward cutting through the defense had shown great glimpe's at this prior Trial and was staggered he wasn't included/picked, out 1st culling.
Having watched him most of the night - he sure scored some goals but held the ball too long at times, this probably worked against him but could be coached out him at only 12 turning 13 next year.
I asked were the other forward options much better ? only a few but not worthy of being out so soon.

Another hurdle - my boy having played for a current PL club last 2seasons, new youth coach comes in for 2013 and the Trials were hardly open to anyone, I'm advised he brought over some 7-9 players from the area he came from and before we parents knew it Teams had been picked closed shop full stop a month or so back.
That meant none of last seasons Div1 boys had a chance at all...yer loving youth football not !

Edited by M.L.: 21/11/2012 06:28:13 PM

Totally sucks but
Don't despair I know of a few players that over the years have been mistakenly overlooked they went back to club had great seasons and came back a few years later better than ever.

Edited by krones3: 21/11/2012 07:33:05 PM

Edited by krones3: 21/11/2012 07:33:34 PM

You see, cream ALWAYS rises to the top.

But in truth 90% of these "mistakenly ovelooked" comments are made by clueless dads who refuse to accept thier kid's own genuine lack of talent. Even if rejected by multiple coaches and selectors over many years.

Can't comment on it as I have no kids, never around the situation with trials etc.

No need to be harsh though - We're all going on about the lack of pathways for kids and the troubles with getting kids selected. It seems everyone has lost notice of the fact that talent identification is a skill unto itself, why do you think scouts for big clubs get paid big bucks?

Judy,

That's the way. Give it to these clueless dads. None of them have ever played football and are all blind at the trials.

Never mind the informed highly skilled football selectors that unthankfully give up their time from their busy daytime jobs as potatoe farmers or toilet cleaners at woolies or the morbidly obese couch potatoe coaches that struggle to put down their 5 pizza's and 3 garlic bread dinners. The ethnic coaches that can't say no to his relatives but knows "no" in english. The coach who respects the sponsors kids. The coach who knows who pays his coaching wages. The coaches pub drinking buddies. The coach who forks out 50k to have the job because his coaching skills amount to zip.

These are the people who give up their time to make these informed football selections that are developing the youth and shaping the future of top tier football in this country. Let's all crack a tinnie and celebrate their contributions for without them we couldn't have failed so miserably!!

Han Berger is right in one respect. The people and coaches making these decisions are generally poorly skilled or convaluted in the art of talent identification. Han won't make that mistake when his redraft is put together. Should extend his tenure by a few mill.

I've seen trials where in half a game the unsigned triallists flogged the signed side by 8-0. And yep they completely culled the 8-0 in half a game winning side. I've seen too many outstanding players culled and duds shaking hands at the end of the trials for my liking over the years. If that doesn't tell a person there is something seriously wrong nothing does.

Having said that though there are some (very few) TD's and coaches I agree with and highly respect their decisions. These are very few and far between. We need more like them and less like the above.

In a nutshell there are too many side issues and most political affecting the selection process. I do not know how these issues can resolved but until it does the cream will have such limitations in their opportunities that most just simply give up. This is also reflected in NSWPL spectator numbers. 2-3 hundred people attend these matches and are mostly relatives of players because the general public know of the issues and refuse to pay to watch the duds play. The general public would rather save the entry fee and go watch the local park football and spend their hard earned on a snag roll and coffee. Even the local park clubs get bigger attendances than NSWPL first grade matches.

Not all dads have never played football or are blind at trials and enjoy highly skilled jobs as tomato farmers, cleaners and coach potatoe's.

Some dads actually know what they are talking about and the general public can't ALL be wrong ;)

Edited by Aussiesrus: 22/11/2012 06:41:01 AM

Here it comes :-({|=

Edited by Aussiesrus: 22/11/2012 07:17:08 AM

Not harsh, just don't see the value in perpetuating a suburban myth.

Behind nearly every "overlooked talent" is a father who's had his dreams burnt.

Not doing their kids any life favours by playing the eternal blame game.

But nonetheless they are fathere of kids who are CONSTANTLY being overlooked by numerous coaches, year after year after year. Penny drop, much? Fathers are generally rotten judges of their kid's true ability.

As for political selections? That's life. Happens in all sports and business. That said, my experiences have repeatedly shown that any political selections have entirely been with the 15th or 16th squad member i.e. fringe players. The first 10 or 12 are the easy selections. The selection of the remaining 3, 4 or 5 is where the coach has to work to earn his beer money.

As I've always consistantly said, if you don't like the selection process at club A then go elsewhere. But at some stage you need to face up to life's realities.

Behind every "overlooked talent" is a father who has watched his kids talent and dreams burnt. When I say talent. I mean the truly talented. Not the ones who fail year after year after year. Kapish?

Your close but no cigar.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 22/11/2012 07:26:15 AM

Club B, C, D..........

The cubans are on me.

Damn gimme one of those cubans and i'll crack open a nicely aged tawny and pass you a glass.

Club A might well have no room due to an overload of talent. Club B, C and D might not be so fortunate. Same results at the end of the day. Too many duds shaking hands and too much truly talented walking the plank. This is the wrong part.

The first 10-12 are usually developed by the club inwhich their selection is convaluted by earlier processes. When you speak of the 3,4,5 plus last 2 players the higher you go the more the decision is made for the coaches. These figures appear high in the political effects which you must admit is a huge reduction of spaces for talent.

Anyway when I talk of talent. I mean the truly talented from a neutral perspective looking at ALL the players at the trials. Not the ones who fail year after year after year. For these parents the penny does drop eventually and they send their kids to train snails at snail races or they take up tic tac toe which suits their abilities better.

I think your basing your views on selection processes you have experienced at one possibly two clubs ONLY. You need to get around and see what is happening at most other clubs trials to get a better idea of what most people are complaining about.

I think you will change your views once you see the bigger picture.

Edited by Aussiesrus: 22/11/2012 08:05:58 AM

Been reading with a bit of interest for a couple of reasons.

1) Football-wise, is it better to cull the whole system and start from scratch? It's been suggested that we need to get rid of the state teams and open up "elite coaching" to a greater number of kids. Would that widen or shrink the pool of talent? And are we likely to produce more Rogic's and Antonises or fewer as a result?

I understand about parent politics and it's a blight on ALL sports in this country. How do you suggest we get rid of/minimise it?

2) I may be about to dive into the rep thing in about 12 months. My 11 y/o has good talent though isn't consistent enough - almost unplayable one week and "back to the pack" the next. Which is why I am keeping him out of reps for another 12 months until he finds that measure of consistency. If he doesn't I won't bother with reps - I am not married to the idea and my ego isn't tied into his football, though I've had a lot to do with developing him as a player of course. I don't care if he becomes a great footballer or not, just want to see his abilities developed and him play to his potential, and for him to enjoy the game.

As someone who's never had anything to do with the youth rep scene, what should my expectations be? (not of him but of the process)

As a father you have two options:

a) drop kid off at trials and return later for pickup

b) join the sideline stalkers and watch, note and rate the quality of your kid's every move and convince yourself he's a shoo-in

And a tip; I always negatively scored any kid who pitched up with his dad in matching tracksuits.

I know the process ATB, intimately.

At the end of the day 95% of the whinging and whining comes from parents of fringe players.

And another free tip; if a kid isn't among the top 3 or 4 players in top tier youth league then parents would be infinitely better off channeling their enthusiasm into their kid's education. Unfortunately that rarely happens.