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BackFour
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Benjamin wrote:Lakeside isn't just a match-day facility. It also means the South don't have to pay for admin or training facilities - big savings over other clubs.
South's large voluntary staff would slice a large chunk off the operating costs incurred by the entirely professional A-League sides.
Considering the hire costs of AAMI Park, the cost savings of using Lakeside would hardly be peanuts.
The staff and venue aren't the only cost savings - the already established, and now rapidly improving, youth system puts us ahead of every other A-league bid since the league began. In short, we could have a NYL team in year 1.
Then don't forget the fact that South would have an income stream that I believe is very rare in the A-League - our own club rooms - this may not bring in a fortune, but it will turn a profit even in the VPL, so imagine the potential in the A-League.
And to your last comment - you can have all the time in the world, if you run out of money the game is over.
With regard to comments you've made about constructive ideas to improve Heart's following - there have been several suggestions on this thread, and on others, often by the same people who are in the SMFC > Heart camp. The vast majority of us want Heart to succeed, just struggle to see how they will do it. Dumbing down the HAL to accommodate "low budget" bids for any club is wrong - If dumbing down is your strategy then you have effectively thrown the life line to Hearts or any other club that wishes to take the easy route to survival. Professional management as per MV is the answer - Munn is the problem at Heart and I keep challenging you and others here to nominate a single KPI that he has achieved. He has been an abysmal failure - "bagging MV "as a marketing strategy was foolish and failed - he needs to fall on his sword. Edited by backfour: 21/1/2013 05:48:47 PM
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Joffa
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Benjamin wrote:
[b]South's large voluntary staff would slice a large chunk off the operating costs incurred by the entirely professional A-League.
I'm not so sure this is the positive you think it is, sure volunteers are an important part of any club, often the backbone, but do you really expect volunteers to turn up every week when a club is attracting attendances of 8 - 10k every second week? Firstly I can see the FFA having obvious concerns about inadequately trained staff, secondly I'm sure the FFA's insurers would be looking at higher premiums, thirdly South Melbourne themselves would have issues with volunteers, as if they are going to let volunteers man the gates or man the food outlets or the merchandise stand? It is one thing to do this when your crowds are 500 - 1500 and everybody knows everyone, but 8-10k attendances attract serious money through the cash registers...
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Heineken
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I honestly can't believe this thread has reached 78 pages. Jesus Christ!
WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!
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quichefc
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Joffa wrote:Benjamin wrote:
[b]South's large voluntary staff would slice a large chunk off the operating costs incurred by the entirely professional A-League.
I'm not so sure this is the positive you think it is, sure volunteers are an important part of any club, often the backbone, but do you really expect volunteers to turn up every week when a club is attracting attendances of 8 - 10k every second week? Firstly I can see the FFA having obvious concerns about inadequately trained staff, secondly I'm sure the FFA's insurers would be looking at higher premiums, thirdly South Melbourne themselves would have issues with volunteers, as if they are going to let volunteers man the gates or man the food outlets or the merchandise stand? It is one thing to do this when your crowds are 500 - 1500 and everybody knows everyone, but 8-10k attendances attract serious money through the cash registers... ...and they would continually lose the good ones to paid jobs elsewhere around the country... Oh and the other important point is... THIS IS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. SOUTH MELB ARE NEVER GOING TO TAKE THE PLACE OF MELBOURNE HEART... because if they did they would have an even more difficult time in attracting fans. If you want South Melbourne in the A-league I would spend all of your time helping Heart become established - because a third team in Victoria is not going to happen before this occurs.
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Red_or_Dead
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Benjamin wrote:Red_or_Dead wrote:Maybe when Australia win the hosting rights to the FIFA World Cup in 2030, the APL will get big enough to convert into the A-League's second tier. South can work their way up then ;) The APL system has to form a national division before it can become anything like a second tier. For the APL to have any any real effect, they should have had a national league from the start, with the elite state leagues feeding into that. A-League above and protected from relegation. A 2nd division needs to be set up sooner rather than later because the best talent from the other states is already migrating to the bigger leagues rather than staying at home. That's why I said by 2030!!?!! I can't see SMFC in the A-League any earlier than that ;)
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chris
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rusty wrote:jak wrote:Yes, the A-League is about now and the future, but it is arrogant to suggest that some parts of the football community should be excluded from participating in it. Any future bid should be judged on its merits, regardless of who it is.
NOTE: If we have ambitions for a strong A-League and a vibrant second division in the future, then we clearly need more teams. These teams need to come from somewhere and Melbourne, with 20% of Australia's population should have many more. So I don't think it's wise to dismiss any one group from bidding because of some perceived historical baggage (which has been propagated by the "outrage" media), provided they can raise the necessary capital and have a road map for generating broad based support.
What I would say to all those doubting Thomas's who think it impossible that a club like SMFC could become broad based: keep your minds open and see what is being proposed before rushing to judgment.
It's arrogant to assume South have any merit in their bid. That Lakeside is a world class stadium and better than Etihad is arrogant, that South have more fabric and soul than any A league club is arrogant, that the A league is plastic and empty whereas the NSL was the best thing ever is arrogant, that Heart should fold and die so SMFC can have a crack is arrogant, that it's always the "outrage" media at fault and South never did anything wrong is arrogant, that south can raise four million in a week is arrogant, that South through some cheese ball marketing "road map" will double their historical attendance is arrogant. When you strip away the arrogance and the stupidity the merits for South coming into the A league are extremeley thin. Guess what Rust Smfc is an arrogant club - it is a privaledge the club has rightfully earned as the most decorated and successful team Australia has ever produced via a string of cups - championships and FIFA awards What have the Heart done?
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Joffa
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chris wrote:
What have the Heart done?
You mean apart from participate in the only fully professional and best league in Australia and New Zealand.
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T-UNIT
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chris wrote:
Guess what Rust
Smfc is an arrogant club - it is a privaledge the club has rightfully earned as the most decorated and successful team Australia has ever produced via a string of cups - championships and FIFA awards
What have the Heart done?
The Heart are still a new team you moron. Give them a chance!!
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chris
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11.mvfc.11 wrote:Joffa wrote:jak wrote:Any future bid should be judged on its merits, regardless of who it is.
You're assuming that previous bids haven't been judged on their merits, do you have any evidence of this travesty? Melbourne Heart bid being accepted with no name, no colours, no business model, no history, no fans ahead of the Southern Cross bid which had all of the above, and then some. One could argue that the FFA has also refused to judge the Canberra bid on it's merits also. Add the "south melbourne finger prints" line by the FFA - even though they accepted the sxfc bid was as good as anything theu had seen Yet the sidwell bid was colorless - nameless - homeless and no business model 3 years on it is slightly better
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chris
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T-UNIT wrote:chris wrote:
Guess what Rust
Smfc is an arrogant club - it is a privaledge the club has rightfully earned as the most decorated and successful team Australia has ever produced via a string of cups - championships and FIFA awards
What have the Heart done?
The Heart are still a new team you moron. Give them a chance!! whose the moron? I am just saying smfc has earned the right to be arrogant - did not refer to the Heart or anyone else
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chris
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quichefc wrote:Joffa wrote:Benjamin wrote:
[b]South's large voluntary staff would slice a large chunk off the operating costs incurred by the entirely professional A-League.
I'm not so sure this is the positive you think it is, sure volunteers are an important part of any club, often the backbone, but do you really expect volunteers to turn up every week when a club is attracting attendances of 8 - 10k every second week? Firstly I can see the FFA having obvious concerns about inadequately trained staff, secondly I'm sure the FFA's insurers would be looking at higher premiums, thirdly South Melbourne themselves would have issues with volunteers, as if they are going to let volunteers man the gates or man the food outlets or the merchandise stand? It is one thing to do this when your crowds are 500 - 1500 and everybody knows everyone, but 8-10k attendances attract serious money through the cash registers... ...and they would continually lose the good ones to paid jobs elsewhere around the country... Oh and the other important point is... THIS IS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. SOUTH MELB ARE NEVER GOING TO TAKE THE PLACE OF MELBOURNE HEART... because if they did they would have an even more difficult time in attracting fans. If you want South Melbourne in the A-league I would spend all of your time helping Heart become established - because a third team in Victoria is not going to happen before this occurs. That is an option and has been refered to already
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Joffa
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chris wrote:11.mvfc.11 wrote:Joffa wrote:jak wrote:Any future bid should be judged on its merits, regardless of who it is.
You're assuming that previous bids haven't been judged on their merits, do you have any evidence of this travesty? Melbourne Heart bid being accepted with no name, no colours, no business model, no history, no fans ahead of the Southern Cross bid which had all of the above, and then some. One could argue that the FFA has also refused to judge the Canberra bid on it's merits also. Add the "south melbourne finger prints" line by the FFA - even though they accepted the sxfc bid was as good as anything theu had seen Yet the sidwell bid was colorless - nameless - homeless and no business model 3 years on it is slightly better selective quoting there chris...disappointing Quote:Once again you're assuming the FFA either didn't take those factors into consideration or that those points are/were important...clearly on balance the FFA found the Southern Cross bid, rightly it wrongly and for whatever reason, to be inferior...
Canberra didn't have the money, and they still don't, I would love to see Canberra in the league also but they were going to lose out strategically to the Wanderers at this point in the A-League growth cycle.
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chris
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Joffa wrote:chris wrote:
What have the Heart done?
You mean apart from participate in the only fully professional and best league in Australia and New Zealand. True
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chris
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Joffa wrote:chris wrote:11.mvfc.11 wrote:Joffa wrote:jak wrote:Any future bid should be judged on its merits, regardless of who it is.
You're assuming that previous bids haven't been judged on their merits, do you have any evidence of this travesty? Melbourne Heart bid being accepted with no name, no colours, no business model, no history, no fans ahead of the Southern Cross bid which had all of the above, and then some. One could argue that the FFA has also refused to judge the Canberra bid on it's merits also. Add the "south melbourne finger prints" line by the FFA - even though they accepted the sxfc bid was as good as anything theu had seen Yet the sidwell bid was colorless - nameless - homeless and no business model 3 years on it is slightly better selective quoting there chris...disappointing Quote:Once again you're assuming the FFA either didn't take those factors into consideration or that those points are/were important...clearly on balance the FFA found the Southern Cross bid, rightly it wrongly and for whatever reason, to be inferior...
Canberra didn't have the money, and they still don't, I would love to see Canberra in the league also but they were going to lose out strategically to the Wanderers at this point in the A-League growth cycle.
Point is south did have the money and most of their backers were redirected to Heart by the FFA Perhaps there is an underlining strategy in all of this
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Red_or_Dead
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chris wrote:rusty wrote:jak wrote:Yes, the A-League is about now and the future, but it is arrogant to suggest that some parts of the football community should be excluded from participating in it. Any future bid should be judged on its merits, regardless of who it is.
NOTE: If we have ambitions for a strong A-League and a vibrant second division in the future, then we clearly need more teams. These teams need to come from somewhere and Melbourne, with 20% of Australia's population should have many more. So I don't think it's wise to dismiss any one group from bidding because of some perceived historical baggage (which has been propagated by the "outrage" media), provided they can raise the necessary capital and have a road map for generating broad based support.
What I would say to all those doubting Thomas's who think it impossible that a club like SMFC could become broad based: keep your minds open and see what is being proposed before rushing to judgment.
It's arrogant to assume South have any merit in their bid. That Lakeside is a world class stadium and better than Etihad is arrogant, that South have more fabric and soul than any A league club is arrogant, that the A league is plastic and empty whereas the NSL was the best thing ever is arrogant, that Heart should fold and die so SMFC can have a crack is arrogant, that it's always the "outrage" media at fault and South never did anything wrong is arrogant, that south can raise four million in a week is arrogant, that South through some cheese ball marketing "road map" will double their historical attendance is arrogant. When you strip away the arrogance and the stupidity the merits for South coming into the A league are extremeley thin. Guess what Rust Smfc is an arrogant club - it is a privaledge the club has rightfully earned as the most decorated and successful team Australia has ever produced via a string of cups - championships and FIFA awards What have the Heart done? Spell-checked?
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T-UNIT
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chris wrote:T-UNIT wrote:chris wrote:
Guess what Rust
Smfc is an arrogant club - it is a privaledge the club has rightfully earned as the most decorated and successful team Australia has ever produced via a string of cups - championships and FIFA awards
What have the Heart done?
The Heart are still a new team you moron. Give them a chance!! whose the moron? I am just saying smfc has earned the right to be arrogant - did not refer to the Heart or anyone else How did you not refer to them? You asked what they had done.
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Red_or_Dead
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chris wrote:Point is south did have the money and most of their backers were redirected to Heart by the FFA
Perhaps there is an underlining strategy in all of this No shit Sherlock. Hey, maybe he's starting to catch on!! :lol:
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Joffa
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chris wrote:
I am just saying smfc has earned the right to be arrogant
Have you considered the reasons, real or imagined, as to why the SXFC bid was unsuccessful and what steps need to be taken to overcome these barriers...perceived or imagined? Have you considered this acknowledged arrogance, part of which has seen you attack another club needlessly often withour factual basis for some seventy odd pages, as part of the problem... and indeed one of the factors for your clubs exclusion?
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rusty
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chris wrote:
Guess what Rust
Smfc is an arrogant club - it is a privaledge the club has rightfully earned as the most decorated and successful team Australia has ever produced via a string of cups - championships and FIFA awards
What have the Heart done?
Heart have captured more of the Melbourne market in one year than South could manage in 50. Maybe when Heart play out of cow paddocks in front of 3k fans and smash clubs from the Solomon Islands for a the right to play a 3rd string Manchester United team then they can be as arrogant as South are.
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wilier
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BackFour
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chris wrote:11.mvfc.11 wrote:Joffa wrote:jak wrote:Any future bid should be judged on its merits, regardless of who it is.
You're assuming that previous bids haven't been judged on their merits, do you have any evidence of this travesty? Melbourne Heart bid being accepted with no name, no colours, no business model, no history, no fans ahead of the Southern Cross bid which had all of the above, and then some. One could argue that the FFA has also refused to judge the Canberra bid on it's merits also. Add the "south melbourne finger prints" line by the FFA - even though they accepted the sxfc bid was as good as anything theu had seen Yet the sidwell bid was colorless - nameless - homeless and no business model 3 years on it is slightly better You can taste the bitterness can't you Chris - despite all that SMFC achieved they fell at the final hurdle, and were not considered good enough. When all said and done MH have had the most important Victory they will ever need against SMFC - The Victory of a HAL entry, and a position in the most prestigious and successful competition this country has ever seen. So there's your answer - MH have achieved a victory over SMFC that will never be forgotten or surpassed. They have cosigned SMFC to the mantle piece of history, and limited it's influence to meaningless battles on bulletin boards and fan sites in the vrtual world. Edited by backfour: 21/1/2013 11:44:32 PMEdited by backfour: 21/1/2013 11:53:57 PM
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rusty
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Yeah, that a plastic, dirty franchise got the nod ahead of South must feel like a real kick in the teeth for South fans, all 958 of them.
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chris
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rusty wrote:Yeah, that a plastic, dirty franchise got the nod ahead of South must feel like a real kick in the teeth for South fans, all 958 of them. you really have a small mind Rust
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chris
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BackFour wrote:chris wrote:11.mvfc.11 wrote:Joffa wrote:jak wrote:Any future bid should be judged on its merits, regardless of who it is.
You're assuming that previous bids haven't been judged on their merits, do you have any evidence of this travesty? Melbourne Heart bid being accepted with no name, no colours, no business model, no history, no fans ahead of the Southern Cross bid which had all of the above, and then some. One could argue that the FFA has also refused to judge the Canberra bid on it's merits also. Add the "south melbourne finger prints" line by the FFA - even though they accepted the sxfc bid was as good as anything theu had seen Yet the sidwell bid was colorless - nameless - homeless and no business model 3 years on it is slightly better You can taste the bitterness can't you Chris - despite all that SMFC achieved they fell at the final hurdle, and were not considered good enough. When all said and done MH have had the most important Victory they will ever need against SMFC - The Victory of a HAL entry, and a position in the most prestigious and successful competition this country has ever seen. So there's your answer - MH have achieved a victory over SMFC that will never be forgotten or surpassed. They have cosigned SMFC to the mantle piece of history, and limited it's influence to meaningless battles on bulletin boards and fan sites in the vrtual world. Edited by backfour: 21/1/2013 11:44:32 PMEdited by backfour: 21/1/2013 11:53:57 PM \Meh! - just another hurdle - the cream always rises to the top in end
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GGfortythree
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chris wrote:BackFour wrote:chris wrote:11.mvfc.11 wrote:Joffa wrote:jak wrote:Any future bid should be judged on its merits, regardless of who it is.
You're assuming that previous bids haven't been judged on their merits, do you have any evidence of this travesty? Melbourne Heart bid being accepted with no name, no colours, no business model, no history, no fans ahead of the Southern Cross bid which had all of the above, and then some. One could argue that the FFA has also refused to judge the Canberra bid on it's merits also. Add the "south melbourne finger prints" line by the FFA - even though they accepted the sxfc bid was as good as anything theu had seen Yet the sidwell bid was colorless - nameless - homeless and no business model 3 years on it is slightly better You can taste the bitterness can't you Chris - despite all that SMFC achieved they fell at the final hurdle, and were not considered good enough. When all said and done MH have had the most important Victory they will ever need against SMFC - The Victory of a HAL entry, and a position in the most prestigious and successful competition this country has ever seen. So there's your answer - MH have achieved a victory over SMFC that will never be forgotten or surpassed. They have cosigned SMFC to the mantle piece of history, and limited it's influence to meaningless battles on bulletin boards and fan sites in the vrtual world. Edited by backfour: 21/1/2013 11:44:32 PMEdited by backfour: 21/1/2013 11:53:57 PM \Meh! - just another hurdle - the cream always rises to the top in end Just as the real SMFC(Flares, fighting, mono-ethnic nonsense) will also come out in the end).
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paulc
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Quote:
Just as the real SMFC(Flares, fighting, mono-ethnic nonsense) will also come out in the end).
It will one day. In a generation or two. But currently the violence and unruly behaviour from its small supporter base will not be forgotten.
In a resort somewhere
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rusty
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chris wrote:\Meh! - just another hurdle - the cream always rises to the top in end You're talking about jizz right?
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Red_or_Dead
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chris wrote:BackFour wrote:chris wrote:11.mvfc.11 wrote:Joffa wrote:jak wrote:Any future bid should be judged on its merits, regardless of who it is.
You're assuming that previous bids haven't been judged on their merits, do you have any evidence of this travesty? Melbourne Heart bid being accepted with no name, no colours, no business model, no history, no fans ahead of the Southern Cross bid which had all of the above, and then some. One could argue that the FFA has also refused to judge the Canberra bid on it's merits also. Add the "south melbourne finger prints" line by the FFA - even though they accepted the sxfc bid was as good as anything theu had seen Yet the sidwell bid was colorless - nameless - homeless and no business model 3 years on it is slightly better You can taste the bitterness can't you Chris - despite all that SMFC achieved they fell at the final hurdle, and were not considered good enough. When all said and done MH have had the most important Victory they will ever need against SMFC - The Victory of a HAL entry, and a position in the most prestigious and successful competition this country has ever seen. So there's your answer - MH have achieved a victory over SMFC that will never be forgotten or surpassed. They have cosigned SMFC to the mantle piece of history, and limited it's influence to meaningless battles on bulletin boards and fan sites in the vrtual world. \Meh! - just another hurdle - the cream always rises to the top in end So you think THAT hurdle is easier for SMFC to overcome than Heart's hurdle of attracting 10,000+ crowds? Now who has the small mind? Hrmmm...reality check: MHFC = HAL, Avg crowd: 8500+ SMFC = VPL, Avg crowd: 85+ ](*,)
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jak
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Again, it's meaningless to compare A-League crowds with VPL and NSL ones. There are too many variables.
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rusty
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jak wrote:Again, it's meaningless to compare A-League crowds with VPL and NSL ones. There are too many variables.
Not quite. It shows that SM's core support isn't loyal, they've either lost interest or defected to A league teams. Even teams in the English Conference get better attendances than South. You're gonna have a really hard time winning your fan base back, and an even harder time attracting new support. Chris and Ben might think it's as easy as click of the fingers and doing some advertising on community TV, but reality can be cruel.
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