Joffa
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tbitm wrote:Joffa wrote:Guys I have adjusted both quotes to show the current attendance figures, sorry for the inconvenience.
18 games 202,700 .78,952 = 281,652
Total = 2,293,089
no worries i picked up on it. also hearts total is 8882*9 = 79,952 Cheers
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paulc
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Benjamin wrote:paulc wrote:chris wrote:I am happy to discuss 3 teams or 2 teams in melbourne so I can keep up the propaganda with my non-ethnic moderator mate and get my community club South Melbourne Football Club back in the top league Fixed Fixed for accuracy and to remove the overly racist elements. The classic racist card :lol: :oops:
In a resort somewhere
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jak
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chris wrote:I am happy to discuss 3 teams or 2 teams in melbourne If everyone Insists that the 2nd team in melbourne has worked then I am happy to back down Not calling for the death of anyone - however the Heart are clearly nowhere near capacity at the moment and I think everyone agrees with that part at the very least They need to show they have ability to impact the market This is their 3rd year guys - it's not as if people don't know they exist
Everyone knows they exist yet a very small market is attached to them
What have the Heart done to fast track their development?
Edited by chris: 31/1/2013 06:28:19 PM Chris, can you please change the title of this thread to something a little more moderate in nature? It is derailing what is otherwise a great discussion.
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Red_or_Dead
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jak wrote:chris wrote:I am happy to discuss 3 teams or 2 teams in melbourne If everyone Insists that the 2nd team in melbourne has worked then I am happy to back down Not calling for the death of anyone - however the Heart are clearly nowhere near capacity at the moment and I think everyone agrees with that part at the very least They need to show they have ability to impact the market This is their 3rd year guys - it's not as if people don't know they exist
Everyone knows they exist yet a very small market is attached to them
What have the Heart done to fast track their development?
Edited by chris: 31/1/2013 06:28:19 PM Chris, can you please change the title of this thread to something a little more moderate in nature? It is derailing what is otherwise a great discussion. Oh NOW you want this changed? And on the same grounds as I wanted it changed. When I called for it to be renamed last week, you thought it was a perfectly good topic name. I'm glad the Libra (Scales of Justice) in you has come to its senses!
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jak
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Red_or_Dead wrote:jak wrote:chris wrote:I am happy to discuss 3 teams or 2 teams in melbourne If everyone Insists that the 2nd team in melbourne has worked then I am happy to back down Not calling for the death of anyone - however the Heart are clearly nowhere near capacity at the moment and I think everyone agrees with that part at the very least They need to show they have ability to impact the market This is their 3rd year guys - it's not as if people don't know they exist
Everyone knows they exist yet a very small market is attached to them
What have the Heart done to fast track their development?
Edited by chris: 31/1/2013 06:28:19 PM Chris, can you please change the title of this thread to something a little more moderate in nature? It is derailing what is otherwise a great discussion. Oh NOW you want this changed? And on the same grounds as I wanted it changed. When I called for it to be renamed last week, you thought it was a perfectly good topic name. I'm glad the Libra (Scales of Justice) in you has come to its senses! I made mention about a week ago that I think this thread title is a bit over the top. I have never personally called for Heart to be kicked out of the league. Maybe you should learn to read properly.
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Benjamin
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Gerrygee wrote:The South butthurt in this thread is strong. As is the Heart paranoia and fear. I'm finding the Victory fans comments most interesting though.
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Red_or_Dead
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jak wrote:Red_or_Dead wrote:jak wrote:chris wrote:I am happy to discuss 3 teams or 2 teams in melbourne If everyone Insists that the 2nd team in melbourne has worked then I am happy to back down Not calling for the death of anyone - however the Heart are clearly nowhere near capacity at the moment and I think everyone agrees with that part at the very least They need to show they have ability to impact the market This is their 3rd year guys - it's not as if people don't know they exist
Everyone knows they exist yet a very small market is attached to them
What have the Heart done to fast track their development?
Edited by chris: 31/1/2013 06:28:19 PM Chris, can you please change the title of this thread to something a little more moderate in nature? It is derailing what is otherwise a great discussion. Oh NOW you want this changed? And on the same grounds as I wanted it changed. When I called for it to be renamed last week, you thought it was a perfectly good topic name. I'm glad the Libra (Scales of Justice) in you has come to its senses! I made mention about a week ago that I think this thread title is a bit over the top. I have never personally called for Heart to be kicked out of the league. Maybe you should learn to read properly. You used to be nice!
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Arthur
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Some suggestions for a new topic title could be;
The Northern Spirit Effect and Melbourne Heart, discuss.
Or
The Carlton model the similarities with Melbourne Heart financial model.
Or
If two Melbourne teams can generate crowds and interest in a derby how would three Melbourne teams go? Could this be a long term saviour for Heart?
Or
Why is Melbourne Australia's Football Capital yet the game is run in Sydney?
Or
While we have so much success at A-League level in Melbourne why don't we have the grass roots numbers like Sydney?
Or
How would you make Heart financially viable moving forward and not reliant on the Derby?
Or
Is South Melbourne FC a candidate for a Third Melbourne Team?
Or
Hypothetically speaking would Southern Cross Fc have been a better choice for the second Licence?
Or
Why are there so few Melbournians in the Heart Senior Squad? (4 now and one has a long term injury)
Or
Is Aloisi's coaching causing Heart Pains?
Edited by Arthur: 1/2/2013 12:06:20 PM
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jak
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Arthur wrote:
How would you make Heart financially viable moving forward and not reliant on the Derby?
Or
Is South Melbourne FC a candidate for a Third Melbourne Team?
Edited by Arthur: 1/2/2013 12:06:20 PM
Nice one Arthur. I think a combination of these two suggestions would be much better. How about something like this: "Growing the game in Melbourne: Challenges for Heart; Is SMFC a viable third team? Thoughts?
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SouthFan
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The use of the word "mono-ethnic" to describe a community that is in the 4th and 5th generation of its migration to Australia and has reached complete assimilation with the "Australian" culture, to the point of being "more Australian" than many "Australians" is ludicrous.
The word that needs to be used moving forward to describe the South Melbourne Football Club is "MULTICULTURALISM".
As for the Heart, they remain the last of the three expansion mistakes part of Ben Buckley's legacy (and Frank Lowy's of course).
The sooner ties/links are made to the grass roots structure allowing football clubs to dream and those that are capable, to compete at the highest level, the sooner football in this country will improve.
I cannot understand the mentality of shooting down a club who "WANTS TO PLAY FOOTBALL AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL", as if there are 100's of applicants when in reality 3-4 of the existing 10 clubs are on the verge of financial ruin.
I declare without question or second thought...South Melbourne Football Club for ALEAGUE!!
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jak
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SouthFan wrote:
I cannot understand the mentality of shooting down a club who "WANTS TO PLAY FOOTBALL AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL", as if there are 100's of applicants when in reality 3-4 of the existing 10 clubs are on the verge of financial ruin.
Well said
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Heart_fan
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What a few people see as ludicrous, many others see as a very important bit of reality.
The same points get raised over and over again from both sides of this discussion and neither side is truly going to take on board what is being said for numerous reasons. Its the same old, same old, by the same people, over and over.
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Benjamin
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Heart_fan wrote:What a few people see as ludicrous, many others see as a very important bit of reality.
The same points get raised over and over again from both sides of this discussion and neither side is truly going to take on board what is being said for numerous reasons. Its the same old, same old, by the same people, over and over. This is because when all is said and done, it boils down to a very simple argument (with regard to South)... Some of us believe that IF South can prove its business case AND raise the finance required, THEN we should be allowed a fair shot. Others don't want South to even have the option to put forward a business case or raise the finance, and wish to slam the door simply because the club has an ethnic heritage and the committee still have Greek surnames. Whether certain posters want to acknowledge it or not, ruling out a bid purely because of its heritage, IS racist. The reaction at the time, and the continued reaction to this day, demonstrates that the reason the SXFC bid was rejected was the perception of it being an ethnic bid, South by another name, etc., and nothing to do with the business plan or the financing (once again, the bid was described by the FFA themselves as "as good as any we've seen").
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GCU till I die
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SouthFan wrote:I cannot understand the mentality of shooting down a club who "WANTS TO PLAY FOOTBALL AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL", as if there are 100's of applicants when in reality 3-4 of the existing 10 clubs are on the verge of financial ruin. It's not a new phenomenon, but yeah, it's hard to understand.
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Benjamin
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SouthFan wrote:I cannot understand the mentality of shooting down a club who "WANTS TO PLAY FOOTBALL AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL", as if there are 100's of applicants when in reality 3-4 of the existing 10 clubs are on the verge of financial ruin. Exactly - the health of any franchise business is based on the facility to expand the number of franchises. End of the day we want to have as many options for expansion as possible. We are not blessed with a large number of population centers in Australia - alternative points of differentiation are required. As has been established, Melbourne is a highly centralized city which makes geographical division very difficult - especially as there are already two A-League sides claiming to represent the entire city (state?). So some other form of differentiation is required to form a genuine identity... The only two alternatives I could see carrying enough individual identity to work in Melbourne at the moment are South Melbourne and Collingwood. Ironically, the same argument would most likely be used against both - "we don't like their kind". Edited by Benjamin: 1/2/2013 02:11:34 PM
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jak
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Benjamin wrote:SouthFan wrote:I cannot understand the mentality of shooting down a club who "WANTS TO PLAY FOOTBALL AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL", as if there are 100's of applicants when in reality 3-4 of the existing 10 clubs are on the verge of financial ruin. Exactly - the health of any franchise business is based on the facility to expand the number of franchises. End of the day we want to have as many options for expansion as possible. We are not blessed with a large number of population centers in Australia - alternative points of differentiation are required. As has been established, Melbourne is a highly centralized city which makes geographical division very difficult - especially as there are already two A-League sides claiming to represent the entire city (state?). So some other form of differentiation is required to form a genuine identity... The only two alternatives I could see carrying enough individual identity to work in Melbourne at the moment are South Melbourne and Collingwood. Ironically, the same argument would most likely be used against both - "we don't like their kind". Edited by Benjamin: 1/2/2013 02:11:34 PM You could also have teams with a "North of the Yarra" and/or a "South of the Yarra" point of difference. Out west and/or the outer south east could work too.
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chris
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SouthFan wrote:The use of the word "mono-ethnic" to describe a community that is in the 4th and 5th generation of its migration to Australia and has reached complete assimilation with the "Australian" culture, to the point of being "more Australian" than many "Australians" is ludicrous.
The word that needs to be used moving forward to describe the South Melbourne Football Club is "MULTICULTURALISM".
As for the Heart, they remain the last of the three expansion mistakes part of Ben Buckley's legacy (and Frank Lowy's of course).
The sooner ties/links are made to the grass roots structure allowing football clubs to dream and those that are capable, to compete at the highest level, the sooner football in this country will improve.
I cannot understand the mentality of shooting down a club who "WANTS TO PLAY FOOTBALL AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL", as if there are 100's of applicants when in reality 3-4 of the existing 10 clubs are on the verge of financial ruin.
I declare without question or second thought...South Melbourne Football Club for ALEAGUE!! You have my vote and very well put also
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paulc
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Arthur wrote:Some suggestions for a new topic title could be;
The Northern Spirit Effect and Melbourne Heart, discuss.
Or
The Carlton model the similarities with Melbourne Heart financial model.
Or
If two Melbourne teams can generate crowds and interest in a derby how would three Melbourne teams go? Could this be a long term saviour for Heart?
Or
Why is Melbourne Australia's Football Capital yet the game is run in Sydney?
Or
While we have so much success at A-League level in Melbourne why don't we have the grass roots numbers like Sydney?
Or
How would you make Heart financially viable moving forward and not reliant on the Derby?
Or
Is South Melbourne FC a candidate for a Third Melbourne Team?
Or
Hypothetically speaking would Southern Cross Fc have been a better choice for the second Licence?
Or
Why are there so few Melbournians in the Heart Senior Squad? (4 now and one has a long term injury)
Or
Is Aloisi's coaching causing Heart Pains?
Edited by Arthur: 1/2/2013 12:06:20 PM OR How to keep a thread going and peddle propaganda.
In a resort somewhere
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Benjamin
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paulc wrote:Arthur wrote:Some suggestions for a new topic title could be;
The Northern Spirit Effect and Melbourne Heart, discuss.
Or
The Carlton model the similarities with Melbourne Heart financial model.
Or
If two Melbourne teams can generate crowds and interest in a derby how would three Melbourne teams go? Could this be a long term saviour for Heart?
Or
Why is Melbourne Australia's Football Capital yet the game is run in Sydney?
Or
While we have so much success at A-League level in Melbourne why don't we have the grass roots numbers like Sydney?
Or
How would you make Heart financially viable moving forward and not reliant on the Derby?
Or
Is South Melbourne FC a candidate for a Third Melbourne Team?
Or
Hypothetically speaking would Southern Cross Fc have been a better choice for the second Licence?
Or
Why are there so few Melbournians in the Heart Senior Squad? (4 now and one has a long term injury)
Or
Is Aloisi's coaching causing Heart Pains?
Edited by Arthur: 1/2/2013 12:06:20 PM OR How to keep a thread going and peddle propaganda. Thank you for your contribution, please come again.
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melbourne_terrace
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If two Melbourne teams can generate crowds and interest in a derby how would three Melbourne teams go? Could this be a long term saviour for Heart? this is interesting. a third team means six more derbies in Melbourne, with two finally with a geographic difference, and would definitely go a long way in improving hearts bottom line. I'm all for south coming back, my friend dragged me there a couple of times, especially for the friendly against Olympic, and it's a great day at the football. they aren't really an ethnic team anymore, the place is full of people from all backgrounds and the stadium is better suited for a-league than some current venues. They might chant hellas sometimes but it's not some nationalistic cry for the old country rather than it's just chanting the traditional name of the team, similar to how West Ham chant come on you irons.
Viennese Vuck
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GGfortythree
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melbourne_terrace wrote:If two Melbourne teams can generate crowds and interest in a derby how would three Melbourne teams go? Could this be a long term saviour for Heart?
this is interesting. a third team means six more derbies in Melbourne, with two finally with a geographic difference, and would definitely go a long way in improving hearts bottom line. I'm all for south coming back, my friend dragged me there a couple of times, especially for the friendly against Olympic, and it's a great day at the football. they aren't really an ethnic team anymore, the place is full of people from all backgrounds and the stadium is better suited for a-league than some current venues. They might chant hellas sometimes but it's not some nationalistic cry for the old country rather than it's just chanting the traditional name of the team, similar to how West Ham chant come on you irons. Having that many derbies would dilute their importance
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vanbasten88
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gabgabgab39 wrote:melbourne_terrace wrote:If two Melbourne teams can generate crowds and interest in a derby how would three Melbourne teams go? Could this be a long term saviour for Heart?
this is interesting. a third team means six more derbies in Melbourne, with two finally with a geographic difference, and would definitely go a long way in improving hearts bottom line. I'm all for south coming back, my friend dragged me there a couple of times, especially for the friendly against Olympic, and it's a great day at the football. they aren't really an ethnic team anymore, the place is full of people from all backgrounds and the stadium is better suited for a-league than some current venues. They might chant hellas sometimes but it's not some nationalistic cry for the old country rather than it's just chanting the traditional name of the team, similar to how West Ham chant come on you irons. Having that many derbies would dilute their importance Which is exactly what the NSL discovered when they went to a bloated 24 team 2 conference structure.
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Arthur
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gabgabgab39 wrote:melbourne_terrace wrote:If two Melbourne teams can generate crowds and interest in a derby how would three Melbourne teams go? Could this be a long term saviour for Heart?
this is interesting. a third team means six more derbies in Melbourne, with two finally with a geographic difference, and would definitely go a long way in improving hearts bottom line. I'm all for south coming back, my friend dragged me there a couple of times, especially for the friendly against Olympic, and it's a great day at the football. they aren't really an ethnic team anymore, the place is full of people from all backgrounds and the stadium is better suited for a-league than some current venues. They might chant hellas sometimes but it's not some nationalistic cry for the old country rather than it's just chanting the traditional name of the team, similar to how West Ham chant come on you irons. Having that many derbies would dilute their importance Like AFL you mean? Or NRL?
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GGfortythree
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Arthur wrote:gabgabgab39 wrote:melbourne_terrace wrote:If two Melbourne teams can generate crowds and interest in a derby how would three Melbourne teams go? Could this be a long term saviour for Heart?
this is interesting. a third team means six more derbies in Melbourne, with two finally with a geographic difference, and would definitely go a long way in improving hearts bottom line. I'm all for south coming back, my friend dragged me there a couple of times, especially for the friendly against Olympic, and it's a great day at the football. they aren't really an ethnic team anymore, the place is full of people from all backgrounds and the stadium is better suited for a-league than some current venues. They might chant hellas sometimes but it's not some nationalistic cry for the old country rather than it's just chanting the traditional name of the team, similar to how West Ham chant come on you irons. Having that many derbies would dilute their importance Like AFL you mean? Or NRL? Yes, only they have enough mindless bogans and free tickets to offset that. The Melbourne Derby became the biggest sporting derby in the country in it's first year of existence, that says something.
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paulc
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Benjamin wrote:paulc wrote:Arthur wrote:Some suggestions for a new topic title could be;
The Northern Spirit Effect and Melbourne Heart, discuss.
Or
The Carlton model the similarities with Melbourne Heart financial model.
Or
If two Melbourne teams can generate crowds and interest in a derby how would three Melbourne teams go? Could this be a long term saviour for Heart?
Or
Why is Melbourne Australia's Football Capital yet the game is run in Sydney?
Or
While we have so much success at A-League level in Melbourne why don't we have the grass roots numbers like Sydney?
Or
How would you make Heart financially viable moving forward and not reliant on the Derby?
Or
Is South Melbourne FC a candidate for a Third Melbourne Team?
Or
Hypothetically speaking would Southern Cross Fc have been a better choice for the second Licence?
Or
Why are there so few Melbournians in the Heart Senior Squad? (4 now and one has a long term injury)
Or
Is Aloisi's coaching causing Heart Pains?
Edited by Arthur: 1/2/2013 12:06:20 PM OR How to keep a thread going and peddle propaganda. Thank you for your contribution, please come again. Always trying to insert some balance. I accept your invitation so I shall return.
In a resort somewhere
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rusty
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Remember all the fantastic daaaaaaaarbies they had in the old NSL. Sydney Olympic v Marconi was no more relevant than v Gippsland. Not many pppl cared about the Knights v South daaaaaaaarby, very rarely broke 10k.
Manufacturing a second daaaaaaaaaaaarby for the Heart isn't the solution to their woes. Don't forget all the best daaaaaaaaarbies in the world are between two team cities, Man United and City, Liverpool and Everton, AC and Inter, Cetic and Rangers etc. No one talks about Chelsea and Fulham.
The derby concept is obviously a great one but lets not rape it to death and show it some respect.
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rusty
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If Heart fold I'd like to see a brand new team set up in Melbourne, with some geogrphical distinction from Victory, and set up with the same community input and involvement like they did with WSW.
A league have proven when they get the little things right they know how to create a successful franchise from scratch, with the same community feel that a club like South offers, but is capable of being run professionally and unselfishly.
Now that the A league has those skills, experience and expertise it would seem like a missed opportunity to waste it on a club like South, who carries historcial baggage and a has huge identity issues.
Why regurgiate demons from the past when you can start fresh.
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Benjamin
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No one outside London talks too much about Chelsea-Fulham, but I can assure you that the locals take it very seriously - as they do with games against QPR. And games against Spurs, Arsenal and West Ham - and, should they get back into the Premiership, you'd find that games involving Crystal Palace and Millwall would carry a fair derby atmosphere as well.
Continuing the England theme - whilst they are different cities, the proximity of Liverpool and Manchester means that Liverpool vs Man Utd would be considered a derby. Leeds vs either of the Sheffield clubs, or Huddersfield, or Bradford - all considered to be derbies which all wind up the local supporters.
Again, comparing NSL derbies to HAL derbies is like comparing apples to oranges. If after 88 pages of arguments you don't the passion and competition that South could bring to the A-League, you're missing the point.
88 pages debating the idea of the team joining - imagine what the debate and rivalries would be like if we were actually admitted to the league!!
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GGfortythree
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Benjamin wrote:No one outside London talks too much about Chelsea-Fulham, but I can assure you that the locals take it very seriously - as they do with games against QPR. And games against Spurs, Arsenal and West Ham - and, should they get back into the Premiership, you'd find that games involving Crystal Palace and Millwall would carry a fair derby atmosphere as well.
Continuing the England theme - whilst they are different cities, the proximity of Liverpool and Manchester means that Liverpool vs Man Utd would be considered a derby. Leeds vs either of the Sheffield clubs, or Huddersfield, or Bradford - all considered to be derbies which all wind up the local supporters.
Again, comparing NSL derbies to HAL derbies is like comparing apples to oranges. If after 88 pages of arguments you don't the passion and competition that South could bring to the A-League, you're missing the point.
88 pages debating the idea of the team joining - imagine what the debate and rivalries would be like if we were actually admitted to the league!! Yes, But the difference is that Chelsea supporters take all games seriously, Many Heart fans would be happy only buying a 3 game derby membership.
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rusty
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Ben Chelsea don't even consider Fulham as one of their main rivals. That's not to say there is no feeling in the derby, but it doesn't have the same "captivating" effect as does say the Merseyside or Manchester derbies.
The Sydney and Melbourne derbies are BIG, not just in Sydney and Melbourne but for every A league follower. Part of this is becuase they are true derbies in the sense they are two team cities, they emulate the spectacles and grandeur of the worlds greatest rivalries, if if you were to add a third into the mix it that ability to "captivate" the audience weakens, and rather than Celtic v Rangers we have a dirge Marconi v Parramatta or Penrith v Cronulla.
That's not to say Melbourne or Sydney couldn't support a third team in the future, but to exploit it on the basis it would save a club is just silly. Victory are Hearts biggest rival anyway, bringing in South as the "other"main rival won't start filling the stands at AAMI.
As for 88 pages of debate- that's nice, but there's less people on here than there are going to South games these days. What would be better and more exciting are bigger crowds at Lakeside.
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