13,752 = Melbourne Heart out -> Alessandro Del Piero in


13,752 = Melbourne Heart out -> Alessandro Del Piero in

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chris
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rusty wrote:
Benjamin wrote:
Big difference between what I said and what you are saying is that I didn't say I was the "only" non-Greek, you made that bit up. As for the rest - I guess the truth can really piss some people off... If you go into a situation with an open mind, you get a very different picture to those who go in with (negative) expectations.


What truth? People don't just spontaneously develop attachments to clubs like you did. South has existed for a long time and still has a really strong connection to the Greek commumity, it's unrealistic to expect broader Melbourne to feel anything but indifference for a club which for most of its history has treated the public with indifference. Some marketing and increased exposure isn't going to change the fact that it will always be seen as a Greek club, there's nothing you can to do change that perception unless you adopt radical wholesale change to your brand and identity, the kind of change that would probably be rejected by its members as it would be seen as "Selling out" and inviting too much mainstream influence. And people don't want to follow a club that sings the Greek anthem over the Aussie one, whether it happended yesterday or hundred years it proves how strongly affiliated the South Melrbouen football club was with Greek community sometimes to the point of disrespecting the country it was founded in, and that's a permanent part of the your history that people wont forget.

So your pickle is you want people to support you as a you are but people don't want to support you as you are so you will never be successful.


Rusty

The fact that individuals like Bengamin who has an English background and KrissKrash who is 100% Italian among many others can feel attached to South Melbourne and incidently is the very thing you are arguing against may be the reason you keep attacking them and their views

I don't think you can handle the truth and the lengths you go to - to stereotype south is humorous

Just because a club has an ethnic origin - does not mean it deals with only 1 currency

Not that I like using business terms with football clubs - but the club does actually get attention from various segments - not just ethnicity but also social statuses

You know once upon a time not so long ago you would predominantly see Holden and Fords on the roads - times have changed - If someone told me back then Nissan, KIA and Toyota would be the dominant forces in Australia I would have laughed at them

Globalisation is here mate and football more than any other code in this country can leverage from it

Unless football harnesses the diverse elements this game provides in this country then it has reached its peak

MH are a Victory copy - sorry - sad but true - many observers said this from day dot - and now that we are bringing up threads like this 3 years on - and on the back of mounting loses and minimal social attachment - we are called trolls - I say bullshit

smfc are a new attachment opportunity - not just a greek one (450,000 Australians of Greeks Ancestry in Melbourne gen 1,2,3,and 4)- but an opportunity to penetrate a football market that is currently dissengaged and that Heart have failed to appeal to

Even though I think they were and remain a mistake - they deserve every opportunity to succeed - if for nothing else - it is damaging to the game to have a team fail in a major city and AFL Heartland

However they need to get a hurry up - or these fans might end up following cricket or some other code

Time is precious and most hardcore fans can only align themselves to 1 club - regardless of the sport

with all these new franchise business models propping up across multiple sports segments recently and all of them targeting the same market - a market which is currently saturated with content of all types - the reintroduction of a familiar brand will penetrate immediately in a market convoluted beyond saturation

So please put your pistol back in your trousers and take a broader view of the situation in Melbourne - particularly with the amount of sporting content floating around today

SMFC will be a welcome change to some familiararity

Last thing football needs is The Melbourne Panthers as the next HAL team

Oh and 1 more thing should be added - if south was included it would be at a zero risk to the FFA's credibility - south would shoulder the risk as it is existing - not a creation

south more than any other team is ready for the transition

Edited by chris: 4/2/2013 03:58:05 PM
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sugoibaka wrote:
paulc wrote:
From a report in The Roar 19th April 2011.....

Quote:
There were a number of controversies and indecisions and finally when Soccer Australia decided to abandon the ethnic flavour of the NSL, it tended to alienate some of the larger and more traditional ethnic clubs, who started pulling in opposite directions.


Such one big club pulling away from becoming broadbased was South Melbourne Hellas.

There's nothing that Hellas have demonstrated till this day that they want to change.

Sorry, lip service is insufficient.


Personally, as a Victory fan, I don't give a hoot if SMFC has ethnic roots nor if this ethnicity is still a part of the club culture, image or supporter base. There's nothing inherently wrong with ethnicity of any type.


Except as evidenced, mono-ethnic clubs are resistent to change, catering predominantly to their own community group.

Take brisbane Roar (alias Brisbane Lions, alias Hollandia SC). Starting from an ethnic club they grew out of their enclave and expanded their base. No problems with that.

Heaps of problems for the growth of football with mono-ethnic clubs that resist it.

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Arthur
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paulc wrote:
Arthur wrote:
GCU till I die wrote:

I wonder why SMFC fans would want to join the A-League.

Sounds like you'd lose everything that actually means anything about following a real football club.


Our Club was and is historically all about playing at the highest level and succeeding.

It's always been about the football.


In the name and on behalf of the Greek community.


When we went to the Oceania Cup and to the World Club Championships we were representing Australia.

South Melbourne was always different to the other Clubs of Greek Heritage in that we were not a social club and football club. SMFC was always a football club first.
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paulc wrote:
sugoibaka wrote:
paulc wrote:
From a report in The Roar 19th April 2011.....

Quote:
There were a number of controversies and indecisions and finally when Soccer Australia decided to abandon the ethnic flavour of the NSL, it tended to alienate some of the larger and more traditional ethnic clubs, who started pulling in opposite directions.


Such one big club pulling away from becoming broadbased was South Melbourne Hellas.

There's nothing that Hellas have demonstrated till this day that they want to change.

Sorry, lip service is insufficient.


Personally, as a Victory fan, I don't give a hoot if SMFC has ethnic roots nor if this ethnicity is still a part of the club culture, image or supporter base. There's nothing inherently wrong with ethnicity of any type.


Except as evidenced, mono-ethnic clubs are resistent to change, catering predominantly to their own community group.

Take brisbane Roar (alias Brisbane Lions, alias Hollandia SC). Starting from an ethnic club they grew out of their enclave and expanded their base. No problems with that.

Heaps of problems for the growth of football with mono-ethnic clubs that resist it.


South is a football club - and winning is it's prority
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Gerrygee wrote:
paulc wrote:
I'm convinced that 2 minute wonder Ben has NFI what Australian soccer has gone through.

Thank goodness we have safeguards.


[youtube]lHlsIy812kU[/youtube]

missed these scen es


And soccer was barely on TV :lol:

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Arthur wrote:
paulc wrote:
Arthur wrote:
GCU till I die wrote:

I wonder why SMFC fans would want to join the A-League.

Sounds like you'd lose everything that actually means anything about following a real football club.


Our Club was and is historically all about playing at the highest level and succeeding.

It's always been about the football.


In the name and on behalf of the Greek community.


When we went to the Oceania Cup and to the World Club Championships we were representing Australia.

South Melbourne was always different to the other Clubs of Greek Heritage in that we were not a social club and football club. SMFC was always a football club first.


That's funny. Fans always chanted Hellas when I went.

Sorry, being a football club with "kulcha" is simply not enough.

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Any way this week Melbourne Heart plays Perth Glory;

Saturday 9 Feb 13 5:30pm: Melbourne Heart v Perth Glory, AAMI Park,

Last time a game that started this topic off.

Saturday 8 Dec 12 5:30pm: Melbourne Heart 1 v 0 Perth Glory, AAMI Park,

Referee: Peter Green
Attendance: 4,505

Interesting to see this weeks attendance comming off a disappointing result against Victory and the incidents at Ettihad Stadium.

I'm predicting a crowd of 5,670.

Any one else like to hazard a guess?


chris
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Arthur wrote:
paulc wrote:
Arthur wrote:
GCU till I die wrote:

I wonder why SMFC fans would want to join the A-League.

Sounds like you'd lose everything that actually means anything about following a real football club.


Our Club was and is historically all about playing at the highest level and succeeding.

It's always been about the football.


In the name and on behalf of the Greek community.


When we went to the Oceania Cup and to the World Club Championships we were representing Australia.

South Melbourne was always different to the other Clubs of Greek Heritage in that we were not a social club and football club. SMFC was always a football club first.


Let's not forget The Singapore Cup 2 years ago - we participated for 2 years as an Australian club - as if the Greeks in Melbourne give a rats about singapore

How many State League clubs would be able to launch an ambitious plan to compete overseas and represent Australia as a good will gesture to strengthen Australia's relations with ASIA?
chris
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Arthur wrote:
Any way this week Melbourne Heart plays Perth Glory;

Saturday 9 Feb 13 5:30pm: Melbourne Heart v Perth Glory, AAMI Park,

Last time a game that started this topic off.

Saturday 8 Dec 12 5:30pm: Melbourne Heart 1 v 0 Perth Glory, AAMI Park,

Referee: Peter Green
Attendance: 4,505

Interesting to see this weeks attendance comming off a disappointing result against Victory and the incidents at Ettihad Stadium.

I'm predicting a crowd of 5,670.

Any one else like to hazard a guess?



Actual Attendance 5,500
Official Attendance 7,181

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paulc wrote:
Except as evidenced, mono-ethnic clubs are resistent to change, catering predominantly to their own community group.


The football landscape was very much different at the time of the Hill "reforms". Besides, the fact that SM have tendered bid(s) to purchase an A-League license undermines your argument.

For mine, if they can demonstrate a good business case for playing in the A-League, I don't see the need for a club to "change". I prefer to celebrate diversity rather than restrict it. Getting the league to 14 or 16 teams in the long-term won't be possible if generic start-up franchises are the only option.

Edited by sugoibaka: 4/2/2013 04:12:13 PM
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sugoibaka wrote:
paulc wrote:
Except as evidenced, mono-ethnic clubs are resistent to change, catering predominantly to their own community group.


The football landscape was very much different at the time of the Hill "reforms". Besides, the fact that SM have tendered bid(s) to purchase an A-League license undermines your argument.

For mine, if they can demonstrate a good business case for playing in the A-League, I don't see the need for a club to "change". I prefer to celebrate diversity rather than restrict it. Getting the league to 14 or 16 teams in the long-term won't be possible if generic start-up franchises are the only option.

Edited by sugoibaka: 4/2/2013 04:12:13 PM


You can't get diversity with a club predominantly looking after it's own community. One can argue it's a form of racism.

Hellas has resisted change to broaden right up to the death of the NSL.

It should put up or shut up.

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paulc wrote:
You can't get diversity with a club predominantly looking after it's own community.


If they make a business case to be part of the league, I don't care how many or few ethnicities are represented by a club. Any club would predominantly look after it's own, even Melbourne Victory.

Quote:
One can argue it's a form of racism.


Oh, the poor Anglo-Saxon majority. Cry me a river. And yes, I am of Anglo-Saxon origin.

Quote:
Hellas has resisted change to broaden right up to the death of the NSL.


In the post-NSL era this is irrelevant. SMFC have shown they are willing to adapt to the new environment, barring IP concerns.
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Put up or shut up.

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paulc wrote:
Put up or shut up.


Talking of put up or shut up, two times yesterday you stated that I have a vested interest in South Melbourne - two times I asked what is was - two times you ignored the question... Going for the hattrick?
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Arthur wrote:
Benjamin wrote:
jak wrote:

Quick question for everybody:

Where do you want the A-League to be in 20 years, in terms of the number of teams and the number of divisions (1st, 2nd etc)?



I've said before - 16 team A-League, providing a 30 game home and away season, with 8 games per round.

Below that, either a 16 team A2 national comp, or two 8 team regional comps.

All 32 teams then playing a 'league cup', with a separate FA Cup to cover every FFA/state league affiliated club.


Would only change the FFA Cup to the 32 1st Div and 2nd Div A-League joining best 32 best State teams with early regionalised rounds and final 16 open draw, 32 open draw if affordable.

A2 Divsion has promotion and relegation based on suitablly transperant criteria.



Yes, I agree with something similar, and I'm sure many others do too.

Ideally it would be great to have a 16 team 1st division and the same in a 2nd division. But I am wondering where people think all these teams are going to come from, particularly when some are happy to lock out clubs who can muster a serious bid?

Or are some happy with a 10-12 team league with a "mono" division?:P








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paulc wrote:
Benjamin wrote:
So if you go into the supporter forums you will find supporters referring to the club by its nickname? Oooooooh, shock.

There's no denial that supporters use this name. However, the official name - and therefore all official reference is as South Melbourne Football Club.

Edited by Benjamin: 4/2/2013 02:51:29 PM


Great. Now that you have conceded that SOME OF their fans do call it Hellas, STFU when others on this forum do.


Fans call the club Hellas as a result of being raised that way - you call it Hellas for effect. Big difference. There's is from love, yours is from hate.

And be careful telling moderators to STFU. ;)
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Benjamin wrote:
lardface wrote:
If the above post isn't trolling i'll go jump in a lake. Who are the moderators this thread should be forwarded too? It's insulting towards heart fans.


Al the moderators are well aware of this thread. The general opinion is that there is nothing going on in here that is against the rules. End of the day - if you don't like it, don't read it.

Considering the massive number of threads which routinely refer to Victory/Heart/Melbourne people as 'Tards', I think a discussion about the viability of one franchise, and the options to replace them IF they fail, is hardly the biggest source of insults on the forum.


If it were a proactive discussion that would be good unfortunately it's not it's a troll. Trolling is when the thread starter posts a highly illogical inflammatory subject and tries to feed it by bumping it repeatedly to get attention for themselves or their cause. The highly illogical subject by this thread's starter was suggesting the heart be removed from the a-league in place of south, the thread starter has continued to bump the thread each time adding any material however irrelevant it is, following the traditional trolling method. There is no effort by the thread starter to develop a proactive intelligent discussion because the starting point is so ludicrous that this was never his intention. With the bitter south fans getting involved in the thread to try and suck heart fans into replying, some heart fans inevitably will reply because the suggestion that their club be removed from the league even if irrational is still is highly emotive. This is normally when the moderators on a forum would step in and lock a thread and ban the poster for a while to encourage positive discussions instead of flamming. For some reason you've misinterpreted the thread starter's trolling as a legitimate discussion about possible replacements if a franchise fails. Persistent trolling is often contagious as other posters realise they don't need to provide logic or reason for their threads, the usual pattern is more and more threads start up of this nature and the quality of discussion in the forum is dragged down as posters who attempt to post intelligent genuine discussion points are dissuaded from giving their thoughts, eventually this results in a less interesting and visited forum.
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Benjamin wrote:
paulc wrote:
Put up or shut up.


Talking of put up or shut up, two times yesterday you stated that I have a vested interest in South Melbourne - two times I asked what is was - two times you ignored the question... Going for the hattrick?


Big deal. You have interest in Hellas, most here don't. Explains alot.

More important than than your diversion is SM Hellas should demonstrate it's intention to broaden with actions as it has come short big time.

I guess two minute NSL wonders like yourself find it hard to understand.

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paulc wrote:
Benjamin wrote:
paulc wrote:
Put up or shut up.


Talking of put up or shut up, two times yesterday you stated that I have a vested interest in South Melbourne - two times I asked what is was - two times you ignored the question... Going for the hattrick?


Big deal. You have interest in Hellas, most here don't. Explains alot.

More important than than your diversion is SM Hellas should demonstrate it's intention to broaden with actions as it has come short big time.

I guess two minute NSL wonders like yourself find it hard to understand.


"Waah Waah Waah."
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New dawners :roll:

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sugoibaka wrote:
paulc wrote:
Benjamin wrote:
paulc wrote:
Put up or shut up.


Talking of put up or shut up, two times yesterday you stated that I have a vested interest in South Melbourne - two times I asked what is was - two times you ignored the question... Going for the hattrick?


Big deal. You have interest in Hellas, most here don't. Explains alot.

More important than than your diversion is SM Hellas should demonstrate it's intention to broaden with actions as it has come short big time.

I guess two minute NSL wonders like yourself find it hard to understand.


"Waah Waah Waah."

I thought his post was reasonable.
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lardface wrote:
I thought his post was reasonable.


I didn't. I don't find anything in Benjamin's posts that exhibits any kind of self-interest. He's been upfront on how he came to be an SMFC fan. He's not trying to re-institute "the bad old days of the NSL", and whilst he'd like to see his team in the 'top flight', I gather, is content to follow them regardless of which division they play in.

I'm not an SMFC fan, but I have an interest in them as they are an important part of football's history in this country and have a part in football's future, whether they are in the A-League or not. Good footballers will continue to come out of SMFC regardless.

When it comes down to it, there's little more than intolerance in paulc's posts, with some juvenile name-calling thrown in to-boot.
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sugoibaka wrote:
lardface wrote:
I thought his post was reasonable.


I didn't. I don't find anything in Benjamin's posts that exhibits any kind of self-interest. He's been upfront on how he came to be an SMFC fan. He's not trying to re-institute "the bad old days of the NSL", and whilst he'd like to see his team in the 'top flight', I gather, is content to follow them regardless of which division they play in.

I'm not an SMFC fan, but I have an interest in them as they are an important part of football's history in this country and have a part in football's future, whether they are in the A-League or not. Good footballers will continue to come out of SMFC regardless.

When it comes down to it, there's little more than intolerance in paulc's posts, with some juvenile name-calling thrown in to-boot.


You mean like calling one "fool" from Benjamin without provocation :lol:

You need to buy the history of the NSL, warts and all. Then we can have a sensible discussion.

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paulc wrote:
You mean like calling one "fool" from Benjamin without provocation


Your foolish posts are provocation enough, I'd think.
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Just because SMFC took part in an overseas tournament (or 2) doesn't make the club or their fans Australian.
lardface
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sugoibaka wrote:
lardface wrote:
I thought his post was reasonable.


I didn't. I don't find anything in Benjamin's posts that exhibits any kind of self-interest. He's been upfront on how he came to be an SMFC fan. He's not trying to re-institute "the bad old days of the NSL", and whilst he'd like to see his team in the 'top flight', I gather, is content to follow them regardless of which division they play in.

I'm not an SMFC fan, but I have an interest in them as they are an important part of football's history in this country and have a part in football's future, whether they are in the A-League or not. Good footballers will continue to come out of SMFC regardless.

When it comes down to it, there's little more than intolerance in paulc's posts, with some juvenile name-calling thrown in to-boot.


Intolerance as in:? If you mean racism i think you should be careful saying that about someone. In his post i think the two points were correct, supporting a club would mean you have a self interest in it and a club demonstrating an ability to broaden appeal is important instead talking about what may be possible if the club desired to change. I posted earlier why this is a troll thread nothing good comes out of it.
paulc
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gabgabgab39 wrote:
Just because SMFC took part in an overseas tournament (or 2) doesn't make the club or their fans Australian.


I can imagine South Melbourne Hellas' arguments in their submission to enter the A-League :lol:

In a resort somewhere

Gerrygee
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paulc wrote:
gabgabgab39 wrote:
Just because SMFC took part in an overseas tournament (or 2) doesn't make the club or their fans Australian.


I can imagine South Melbourne Hellas' arguments in their submission to enter the A-League :lol:


ROFL this. The FFA said it reeked Greek in a non direct manner when rejecting it. The board was to be made of 90% Greek community people. Not to mention the other stuff that steered it away from the mainstream which was required.
sugoibaka
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lardface wrote:
Intolerance as in:? If you mean racism i think you should be careful saying that about someone.


His intolerance of "mono-ethnic" clubs is there for all to read.

Quote:
In his post i think the two points were correct, supporting a club would mean you have a self interest in it


Obviously. The same could be said for any supporter of any club. paulc was insinuating more than that, I believe.

Quote:
and a club demonstrating an ability to broaden appeal is important instead talking about what may be possible if the club desired to change.


In the past several years it's fairly clear that SMFC has demonstrated a willingness to target a wider audience and be a relevant part of the post-NSL football environment.
sugoibaka
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gabgabgab39 wrote:
Just because SMFC took part in an overseas tournament (or 2) doesn't make the club or their fans Australian.


lol what? Did you really say that?
GO


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