I deal with metrics that carry dollar signs in front of them.

This is a list of major football club attendances for 2011, it includes only those clubs who have averaged over 45,000 for the season:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_club_attendances_(2011)

Three AFL clubs are listed.

Nothing from South America is listed.

Needless to say, nothing from any other Australian competition is listed.

Edited by Mister Football: 16/1/2013 12:16:09 PM

How many dollars does Collingwood make from Asia/Europe (serious question)?

So wait, do you deal in dollars or attendance averages?

Please provide the metrics that show Collingwood can compare in any way, financial or otherwise, to the biggest sporting clubs in the Southern Hemisphere.

At a guess, I'd say next to nothing (although most of its major sponsors are probably multi-nationals domiciled in Europe or Asia).

Just for starters, major football club attendances for 2011, including only those who average over 45k:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_club_attendances_(2011)

South American clubs nowhere to be seen.

In fact, nothing from the Southern hemisphere there except for three AFL clubs.

Sorry, double post.

Edited by Mister Football: 16/1/2013 12:19:16 PM

I like your "just for starters" post Mister Football. How about you elaborate further with any other metric than attendance (which given, AFL has one of the best in the world in any competition or sport).



So you could argue that's one metric Sydney FC is bigger than Collingwood.

Another metric might be audience and reach. Sydney FC have games shown live in Italy. How many of Collingwoods games were shown in Italy live last seasosn?

Meh, it would amount to nothing more than petty cash.

In world football terms, Sydney FC, Melbourne Victory or your Collingwoods or Swans are also earning nothing more than "petty cash".

There can be no doubt that AFL is much much bigger than HAL. There can be no doubt that Collingwood are a bigger club than HAL clubs in this country (and really outside of it at this stage matters very little). The point is, your arguments are flawed. If you were to base everything around attendance the AFL would be bigger than the NBA.

Why are my arguments flawed?

Someone queried whether Collingwood is truly a large club.

I answered that in Australian terms (and even in the Southern Hemisphere), it's a very large club.

The annual revenue Collingwood earns of $70+ million per annum would be about as much as what all 10 A-League clubs would earn in a season.

The total TV viewers Collingwood had in 2012 was almost triple the total A-League viewers.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/rugby-union/afl-a-league-big-winners-in-football-report-after-viewers-switch-off-rugby/story-e6frg7o6-1226525246762

Personally, I don't give a damn about Collingwood, but someone asked the question, and I've tried to answer it.

It's the Southern Hemisphere bit that gets me. There is no way Collingwood is bigger than the top South American football clubs.
Using average crowds isn't the be all and end all either. most football competitions have many more games than AFL, so aggregrate crowds ill be bigger and averages smaller. Even in the link you posted, the NFL is on top, and they only play 8 home games per season. Major League Baseball teams have 81 homes games.
This is especially distorted when it comes to the AFL. There are AFL members that go the the MCG every week, regardless of who it playing. It's a by product of the venue system the AFL employ.

Corinthians revenue topped US$144 million in 2011 and there TV audiences would undoubtedly dwarf the AFLs viewers numbers. Having a debate on AFL clubs vs Brazilian football clubs is about as silly as having a debate on AFL and HAL.

I accept attendances isn't the be all and end all, but for the most part there is a pretty strong correlation between attendances and total revenue - it's rare that you come across a club with massive attendances which isn't a "big" club in terms of overall revenue (certainly, there are none on that list).

Anyway, I've mentioned previously that Collingwoods total revenue for the year just finished was around $70 million - does anyone have any figures on any Southern Hemisphere clubs?

Regarding the venue system - if it's successful and produces prosperity, why should that be discounted? That's the very thing we are trying to measure. If other sports and competitions can't match that prosperity - isn't that the point of the discussion?

Fair enough, thank you.

:lol:

Despite the fact that it's well known (although the topic has been carefully avoided by Mr Football) that AFL practices fixture manipulation to bump up their averages, Mr Football still talks up clubs based on their average crowds.

I'd be curious to see if his talking up of average crowds means that he thinks the AFL's average crowd figure of 32,748 (across 207 games) means it is a bigger competition than the MLB, which averages 'only' 30,884 (across 2,421 games).

Why the 45,000 cut off? How man seats does the SCG have for AFL? Or Subiaco or most if not all other grounds outside the MCG?

If you wanted popularity (as in bums on seats, to maximise revenue on ticket sales) you would have to look at the reverse metric of empty seats plus any "free" tickets.

Again why the 45,000 cut off?

Don't tell me this thread will turn into the "SMFC In" thread.

I realise you only quoted attendences and you didn't say the biggest in the Southern Hemisphere, but Corinthian Paulista, or commonly called Corinthians was preferred by 13.2% to 14% of the Brazilian population, which represents approximately 24 to 26 millions fans in Brazil. Whereas Collingwood in 2011 had a league record of 71,516 members in the 2011 season.

Collingwood doesn't look like it would be one of the biggest clubs to me, but hey why let reality get in the way of spin?

I'm sure we could dig out stats ( after all you AFL guys lurve stats ) in an attempt to prove our point, but who really cares?
I know what I grew up with and I know which game is by far the most popular and by far the richest.
I trust you'll enjoy watching what you enjoy, but I'd like to think you'll stop this Don Quixote jousting.

Edited by redcup: 16/1/2013 03:16:28 PM

I thought this thread was supposed to be about the code battle in Sydney's west.
Fuck Collingwood.



Edited by Norwest: 16/1/2013 03:10:40 PM

Most teams do. ;)

lol.

Quite. My Wikipedia entry suggests that I am New York Yankees fan. It is true that I did buy a Yankees cap once when I was in the city that never sleeps. However I really was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan (until they moved to LA).

However to be serious for a moment the points that Mr Football makes regarding Collingwood and the AFL are valid. The point that we seem to be missing is that Football needs to study what the AFL is doing and emulate the positive things and discard or exploit the negatives.

The AFL must have been doing "something" right to be where it is. Just like the success, also in a small market, of the GAA in Ireland. For mine these are the standouts in terms of sports marketing internationally. Getting crowds to events (any event) is not that hard in the US (they get large crowds along to sit all day in the hot sun to watch car body shells going round in circles for 500 miles for gawd's sake) as the population is both large and well off generally. But in reality US sport is about the TV audience (and the tax rorts that professional team owners can avail of) and I guess the same applies to Brazil to a lesser extent.

I don't know what the AFL is doing right. It can't be the game itself because frankly in the words of my old (RL I am afraid) coach, it resembles "8 year olds playing rugby union" ie. with a few exceptional moments of athletic skill it's a shambles.

So what is it?



Edited by obvious troll: 16/1/2013 06:39:02 PM

What did Adelaide United rate for the ACL final? wasn't it 300+ Million

What is the best rating Collingwood game ever? What is the total of all Collingwood games in a season?

the biggest problem with the AFL is it is small time

.....with a self proclaimed huge penis.
It's really true.

Firstly Graham Cornes is a well known effwit. Nobody including Aussie Rules fans and even his two sons lol like him. He just says things to gain attention and a reaction. It why he works for 5AA. He comes from an era where cars with Victorian number plates would be vandalised if parked at AAMI Stadium and "kick-a-vic" was the South Australian slogan. Cornes has a massive chip on his shoulder - not just towards Soccer but towards anything he considers non-SA. When he was Adelaide's (Crows) coach they sacked all non-SA-based staff even if they were originally from SA. Paranoia plus!

Secondly, fans of every code have trashed the other codes for over a century. Fans of all codes try to justify their abuse by claiming victim status and that they are only retaliating for past wrongs. As we know Soccer-haters called the game wogball and a game for "pooftas" and sheilas; Aussie Rules-haters called that game aerial ping-pong and also a game for "pooftas" or in modern times "gayfl"; Rugby League-haters called RL players "bumsniffers". Hello homophobia!

Football by nature is tribal but also a lot of this crap has to do with Melbourne-Sydney rivalry. For every Mike Sheahan, Neil Mitchell, Gerard Healy, etc. down south there's a Craig Foster, Roy Masters and Phil Rothfield (sp?) up north. Add Rebecca Wilson who is the NRL/NSW version of Cornes - she comments while proving she knows nothing about Soccer or Aussie Rules and deep down hates both as they are a threat to her beloved RL in its heartland.

I could find just as many anti-AFL articles in the Sydney media as anti-Soccer ones in the Melbourne media. The invasion of 4 goalposts taking over Batesman Bay and heading for Sydney so parents should lock up your kids is my favourite :lol: . The media trolling is so obvious now that News Ltd even made-up the same story for each city but with the sports in reversed attacker/victim roles. In the Herald-Sun it had 'evil' Soccer kicking poor little Aussie Rules kids off a Moonee Ponds ground; In the Daily Telegraph it was 'evil' AFL desecrating the ground where the first Rugby League game was played and kicking poor little Soccer kids off their pitch. It was all twisted BS! When you looked at the actual Moonee Ponds figures both sports in the area have increased in participation by 60k in the past decade. So instead of writing a story about successful coexistence and a win-win for both sports with local kids staying active and healthy, the media went for the "footy wars" crap to try and create a inflammatory headline :roll:.

As for internet trolls, every forum gets them. A poster here was banned from bigfooty for his anti-AFL trolling. At the end of the day it's up to the mods of a forum to decide if a poster adds to it or is just baiting others.

Guangzhou vs FC Tokyo rated 59 million viewers with 13 million in China.

However most Aussies couldn't careless about the ACL just as Asia couldn't careless about Collingwood/AFL. So the cultural cringe argument doesn't work.

ps. Geez Eddie has done a good job putting his club of feral toothless muppets into the minds of Sydneysiders going by this thread. Who gives a shizen about Collingwood ](*,) and WTF has it got to do with Western Sydney :-k .

Half of Australia couldn't careless about AFL let alone Asia. As for the Collingwood references, they represent AFL, you can insert any AFL club there. It's just that in West Sydney, GWS is really a non event, hence why the constant reference to Collingwood or as mentioned before AFL.

300+ million?

Wow, that's almost, like, a gazillion people.