I'm just not comfortable with the death sentence, no matter the crime.

Obviously it would make a huge difference if you clearly defined the circumstances requisite for a capital felony. Things like rape & murder with clearcut evidence, serial offenders, etc.

There is commentary by legal academics in America on that regard and on the proper use of the death penalty to dramatically decrease the chance of sentencing an innocent person to death.

Obviously there would have to be a legal differentiation between heat of the moment rape and cold-hearted hunting a woman down like in this instance.

I don't think it is fair to disregard my argument just because she didn't rape anyone, my point is only to do with the death penalty.

You are right to say that inadequate prosecution isn't symptomatic of a faulty system, there is no proof that this is the case which is why i categorised it as media speculation as it happened to make sense to me when i heard it.

But at least financially the Casey Anthony case has cost more given it was a death row case.

Jurors and Judges get paid more for death penalty cases.
These cases take longer than if it weren't a death penalty case meaning the jurors had to stay sheltered from the media for a longer time and provide housing and meals.
She has now been given free housing and security

Edited by tbitm: 15/3/2013 12:40:08 AM

You set a very dangerous course when you say "Rape = death sentence".

You talk about "exclusively done in cold blood" - SOME rapes certainly, waiting for someone, stalking, grabbing, raping - evil, yes. On a date, had a few too many, get the signals wrong... Still a crime, definitely, but cold blooded? I'd say the opposite. Now, if we say rape = death sentence you are opening a can of worms.

Similarly, to advocate the death sentence is fine in cases like this - where there's virtually no room for confusion (he took the police to the body FFS) - but you open the door to other less open-and-shut matters to have the same penalty, which in turn will (always does) lead to innocent people being executed.

I'm a big believer that prison life should be harder, and that prison sentences for the convicted should be longer, but the death sentence is an absolute none starter because there's no way back if you get it wrong... And we are human, so we will get it wrong.

The death penalty lets these people off lightly. Make him suffer.

Casey Anthony is immaterial to the situation. She wasn't a rapist. And inadequate prosecution is not symptomatic of a faulty system.

That would make sense, the more liberal states take the process more carefully and therefore cost more and the more conservative states don't which is why it costs less but they are also on the record for killing innocent people. But overall, i think the numbers would average out higher for the death penalty even when you take into account the further trials for repeat offenders.

http://camerontoddwillingham.com
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/15/carlos-texas-innocent-man-death

i also think it can be argued that people on death row are harder to convict. Some members of the jury could have moral reasons (whether they be religious or otherwise) to not kill people on death row even when they think they are guilty, which therefore just puts murderers back into our streets.

See Casey Anthony, after she was found "not guilty" the speculation from the media was that the prosecutors were asking for too much when their case was purely based on circumstantial evidence.

Edited by tbitm: 14/3/2013 10:15:16 PM

Edited by tbitm: 14/3/2013 10:17:26 PM

Bring back the stocks in the town square I say.

Obviously there are flaws in the US death row system. 25 years in the system is absurd. My figures came from the state of Texas according to 2009 reports.

These figures also fail to take into account the additional cost for re-offenders going to further trials for repeat offences.

I'm guessing tbitm's statistics would include appeals, legal aid, counselling, higher rate of assaults involving death row inmates towards others and themselves.

Death row is the worst thing since American gun laws IMHO. :lol:

I have no idea where you got 2.3m but ive found 308m from California.

Also in california, the average death penalty case takes 25 years to execute the person anyway so you end up paying for life in prison anyway on top of other expenses.


http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42

This was the extra cost for North Carolina in death penalty cases for the last 2 years





http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

No it's not. Each prisoner costs Victorian taxpayers around 90k/year to house in our prison system. If they're sentenced for life and spend 30 years inside that's a cost to the state of $2.7m.

It's estimated that the average death penalty case in the US costs around $2.3m (USD).

I don't know about you man, but I would hate to be the one who spends his life on the wrong end of a hot iron rod because some lazy copper wanted to get this case of his back and be the hero. ;)

If reasonable doubt is the standard for life imprisonment then I don't see what's wrong with raising the burden to at least some sort of virtual certainty when talking about the death penalty. Look at Anders Breivik, would you say that there's any doubt it was him?

The argument that life imprisonment is "harsher" is ridiculous, why argue that when the whole point of why you're arguing against the death penalty is because it's "uncivilised". A bit counter-productive I think.

Sorry, but this is someone's life we're talking about here. Just because you can live with the fact that an innocent man might be murdered doesn't mean we all can.

No. Irrespective of whether the rapist is rehabilitate-able or not.
Hope they lock him up for life.

This is the problem. The court system is a fucking joke. A guy that works for the GF's dad got caught on video stomping on some poor buggers head with another bloke. 8 months later and he still isn't in prison.

100% guilty is also a joke. There will always be doubts and inconsistencies. People are too concerned with absolutes these days.

Going through the legal processes of making sure someone is 100% guilty being convicted to the death penalty, is more expensive than life in prison

Huge waste of Tax $. Fuck those guys i'd rather money be spent on hospitals, roads and infrastructure.

The death penalty is an uncivilized way of getting rid of uncivilized people :)

Going to prison for life (especially as a rapist) is a far, far worse punishment than death. Why let him get off so lightly?

The guy has tried to off himself already, he said in court today that he wishes Victoria had the death penalty. He wants to die and why wouldnt he? Thats too good for him.

The risk of executing an innocent person is too high to bring back the death penalty. I cant believe people would be willing to risk that just to get revenge on someone. Pretty uncivilised.

I don't think it can work as a deterrent. These people don't have the mental capacity to acknowledge a social deterrent. I mean, jail isn't working. I see it as a way of stopping the convicted, who are incapable of rehabilitation, from committing further crimes upon their release back into society.

As I said before, there was a study which found over 50% (56% to be precise) of released rape offenders re-offended within 12 months - and that's just the crimes that they found out about.

To get rid of cold blooded criminals.

I doubt the death penalty would stop rapists. To do it in the first place you need to be lacking in mental strength.

For those calling for a death penalty on rape, could you please give a detailed comment about what conditions would warrant a death penalty? Is it direct punishment for the crime against the victim? Because they can't be rehabilitated and it will prevent future crimes? To act as a deterrent against other possible rapists? A mix of some or all or other factors?

I approve BUT there would be some scary ex gfs/wives that would be licking their lips if that were to happen.

Macks post;

West Sydney = Baghdad 2.0

-PB

To quote Jesse Jackson (yes, Jesse Jackson):
“Capital punishment turns the state into a murderer. But imprisonment turns the state into a gay dungeon-master."

As I said before, Rape is a cold-blooded crime. A person doesn't do it as an act of revenge or in the heat of the moment or defending themselves. They do it as a cold, empowering rush of adrenaline.

It's not about sex, it's a serious mental inability to empathise and differentiate between right and wrong.

And as a result the state rewards these mental defectives with free food, accommodation and clothing which most of these mentally deficient citizens are incapable of earning themselves. They have no chance of rehabilitation into society. A 1998 study from the Journal of American Academic Psychiatry Law found that over 50% of released offenders re-offended within 12 months of their release and 22% of those released escalated the severity of their crimes.

Actually for rapists, fuck the death pen. Castrate the fuckers instead.