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Bowden
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zimbos_05 wrote:Bowden wrote:
Interesting... What about my other questions? :)
Which ones? I might have missed them in the middle of humberts persistent buzzing. Bowden wrote:zimbos_05 wrote:Saliva is the one thing. Cats are considered clean, i think goats and sheep fall in to that category too, but other animals would be similar to a dog. What makes cats, goats and sheep 'clean', whilst dogs and pigs are 'unclean'? Who decides which side of the fence an animal sits on? Have you ever owned pets? If so, what side of the fence did they sit on? If it was the hand only then you dont need to change your whole outfit, but you would need to do the entire abolution of course, you dont just wash you hand when you do ablution. Further ReadingInteresting. What about if you patted a dog? What interactions with dogs would mean you'd have to do it again? It wouldnt be frowned upon to have a bond, or connection, or treat the animal kindly, it is encouraged to be kind and friendly, just not have them as pets. I am not 100% on the cuddling thing. Ill definitely find the right advice if you want.Personally, have you ever had a bond with a pet/animal? If a young child wanted a puppy like his friends have, how would muslim parents explain to them that it is forbidden? Not a scale as such. A lot of it is derived from hadith and sunnah from our prophet and the four schools of thought. Their are some dogs I am fond of too, like those scottish terriers, the samoids, huskies, but unfortunately cant have them as pets. Surely there must be some sort of scale? How else would muslims know the rules when interacting with animals? Could this prejudice against dogs and adoration of cats that muslims have, simply be because Muhammad happened to be a 'cat person'? I myself being a 'dog person' (never really liked cats) can still appreciate the bond that 'cat people' can have with their pets. Why should his personal preference mean that ALL muslims are forbidden to be 'dog people' and take great joy from the potential bond they could be sharing with their dog?
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tbitm
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I'm guessing there was a rational reason when the Quran was written why it was a bad idea to keep dogs as pets. They can carry diseases for example. Pig when used as food would go off quickly in the middle eastern heat and would make people sick which is why that's wrong.
At the time they didn't know why eating pig would make them sick, everything was just traced back to 'god doesn't want us to eat it if we're getting sick'.
Fair enough logic at the time, but move on.
And zim this is from a perspective of someone who believes your book was written by average people, if you believe it's the word of god then do you.
Edited by tbitm: 31/7/2014 02:20:32 PM
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Jong Gabe
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tbitm wrote:And zim this is from a perspective of someone who believes your book was written by average people, if you believe it's the word of god then do you.
Edited by tbitm: 31/7/2014 02:20:32 PM He's a sheep.
E
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tbitm
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GabMVFC wrote:tbitm wrote:And zim this is from a perspective of someone who believes your book was written by average people, if you believe it's the word of god then do you.
Edited by tbitm: 31/7/2014 02:20:32 PM He's a sheep. I've been accused many times by zim and ricey that I'm trying to control how people think, and then I'm like the nazi's got thrown in there too. I just want it known I really don't care what you believe.
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zimbos_05
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Bowden wrote:[
What makes cats, goats and sheep 'clean', whilst dogs and pigs are 'unclean'?
Who decides which side of the fence an animal sits on?
I wish i could give a definite answer to this, but i can't. Rules are in hadith and the quran which we follow.
Have you ever owned pets? If so, what side of the fence did they sit on?
Had 4 cats when we stayed in Zimbabwe. Had a cat for a bit last year, had to give him away as my sister is scared of cats. My cousin has a cat. In zims, my aunt had 2 cats, some guinea fowls, 2 guinea pigs, 2 rabbits, and a bird.
Interesting.
What about if you patted a dog? What interactions with dogs would mean you'd have to do it again?
When i used to go for maths tuition, my tutor had a pet jack russell. He used to come put his head on my lap and go to sleep whilst i was working. No issue. It just meant when i got home i changed my clothes. I have petted many dogs before, once again, its no issue to do that, i just had to wash my hands or do the full ablution before i needed to pray again.
Personally, have you ever had a bond with a pet/animal? If a young child wanted a puppy like his friends have, how would muslim parents explain to them that it is forbidden?
I love pets. Have had bonds with many. I didnt speak to my sister for a few day after i had to give up my cat. I wanted a pet dog once, but my father explained to me about how islam views it, i accepted that.
Surely there must be some sort of scale? How else would muslims know the rules when interacting with animals?
There is no scale as such. We know these things because they are in quran and sunnah. It's been reviewed by the four schools of thought, and taught to us.
tbitm wrote:I'm guessing there was a rational reason when the Quran was written why it was a bad idea to keep dogs as pets. They can carry diseases for example. Pig when used as food would go off quickly in the middle eastern heat and would make people sick which is why that's wrong.
And zim this is from a perspective of someone who believes your book was written by average people, if you believe it's the word of god then do you.
Pigs were not just forbidden because they went bad in the middle eastern heat. I do believe the Quran is gods word, written by man in to book, yes, but the wording is gods word. Now thats my own belief, i do not impose that belief on anyone else or expect everyone to accept it. Does not stop me from practising that belief in my own private home or in the way i can without a hindrance on imposition on anyone else. Edited by tbitm: 31/7/2014 02:20:32 PM[/quote] He's a sheep.[/quote] I've been accused many times by zim and ricey that I'm trying to control how people think, and then I'm like the nazi's got thrown in there too. I just want it known I really don't care what you believe. [/quote] I don't recall making that accusation against you. Forgive me if i have wrongly accused you of anything, but i have often said i am happy to open, and free discussion. I just draw the line when things like humbert call for me to be banned because i oppose israel or just expressed my view.
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afromanGT
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Quote:Pigs were not just forbidden because they went bad in the middle eastern heat. [youtube]eybZtDx6tAU[/youtube]
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humbert
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Zim hiding behind Notorganic's skirt. Have you no conviction in your claims?
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notorganic
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humbert wrote:Zim hiding behind Notorganic's skirt. Are you being homophobic, transphobic, or just sexist? I can't tell. If Scouse and the rest of the hive find out about your hatred, do you think that you will have to hand in your mangina badge?
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humbert
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Antagonistic. Thought you might get a kick out of it given you think feminists are planning a genocide against men.
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notorganic
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humbert wrote:Antagonistic. Thought you might get a kick out of it given you think feminists are planning a genocide against men. Huh, thanks Freud.
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Eastern Glory
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This thread is very hostile. It's also enlightening in regards to how little those who've grown up in secular families know about religion and religious practice at a day to day level. I find the whole thing fascinating.
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tbitm
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Quote:Quote:Quote:zimbos_05 wrote:Bowden wrote:[
What makes cats, goats and sheep 'clean', whilst dogs and pigs are 'unclean'?
Who decides which side of the fence an animal sits on?
I wish i could give a definite answer to this, but i can't. Rules are in hadith and the quran which we follow.
Have you ever owned pets? If so, what side of the fence did they sit on?
Had 4 cats when we stayed in Zimbabwe. Had a cat for a bit last year, had to give him away as my sister is scared of cats. My cousin has a cat. In zims, my aunt had 2 cats, some guinea fowls, 2 guinea pigs, 2 rabbits, and a bird.
Interesting.
What about if you patted a dog? What interactions with dogs would mean you'd have to do it again?
When i used to go for maths tuition, my tutor had a pet jack russell. He used to come put his head on my lap and go to sleep whilst i was working. No issue. It just meant when i got home i changed my clothes. I have petted many dogs before, once again, its no issue to do that, i just had to wash my hands or do the full ablution before i needed to pray again.
Personally, have you ever had a bond with a pet/animal? If a young child wanted a puppy like his friends have, how would muslim parents explain to them that it is forbidden?
I love pets. Have had bonds with many. I didnt speak to my sister for a few day after i had to give up my cat. I wanted a pet dog once, but my father explained to me about how islam views it, i accepted that.
Surely there must be some sort of scale? How else would muslims know the rules when interacting with animals?
There is no scale as such. We know these things because they are in quran and sunnah. It's been reviewed by the four schools of thought, and taught to us.
tbitm wrote:I'm guessing there was a rational reason when the Quran was written why it was a bad idea to keep dogs as pets. They can carry diseases for example. Pig when used as food would go off quickly in the middle eastern heat and would make people sick which is why that's wrong.
And zim this is from a perspective of someone who believes your book was written by average people, if you believe it's the word of god then do you.
Pigs were not just forbidden because they went bad in the middle eastern heat. I do believe the Quran is gods word, written by man in to book, yes, but the wording is gods word. Now thats my own belief, i do not impose that belief on anyone else or expect everyone to accept it. Does not stop me from practising that belief in my own private home or in the way i can without a hindrance on imposition on anyone else.Edited by tbitm: 31/7/2014 02:20:32 PM He's a sheep. I've been accused many times by zim and ricey that I'm trying to control how people think, and then I'm like the nazi's got thrown in there too. I just want it known I really don't care what you believe. I don't recall making that accusation against you. Forgive me if i have wrongly accused you of anything, but i have often said i am happy to open, and free discussion. I just draw the line when things like humbert call for me to be banned because i oppose israel or just expressed my view. sorry, should've clarified. It was ricey that compared me to the nazis. You got more upset when I tried explaining how homosexuality isn't a choice. We don't have to get into that again. I like your what you said in the bold though, in that way were the same. As a free speech absolutist, I will try to convince people my pov, but end of the day I don't really care what you think as long as you aren't forcing your beliefs on anyone else. If you believe it's the word of allah, all the power to ya. Fwiw EG I didn't grow up in a secular family, as bible thumping as they come in fact. I used to have to pray before I ate mcdonalds ffs :lol:. Mix of Alabama, Oklahoma and mid state PA (basically a northern Alabama) influences in the fam. And tbh, I'm more amazed at how much religious people don't know about their religion. The bible is against pork too, doesn't stop any Christian from gobbling down bacon cheeseburgers. That might be more exclusive to Christians though, Muslims and Jews know their stuff pretty well. Edited by tbitm: 1/8/2014 05:18:21 PM
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Eastern Glory
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tbitm wrote:Quote:Quote:Quote:zimbos_05 wrote:Bowden wrote:[
What makes cats, goats and sheep 'clean', whilst dogs and pigs are 'unclean'?
Who decides which side of the fence an animal sits on?
I wish i could give a definite answer to this, but i can't. Rules are in hadith and the quran which we follow.
Have you ever owned pets? If so, what side of the fence did they sit on?
Had 4 cats when we stayed in Zimbabwe. Had a cat for a bit last year, had to give him away as my sister is scared of cats. My cousin has a cat. In zims, my aunt had 2 cats, some guinea fowls, 2 guinea pigs, 2 rabbits, and a bird.
Interesting.
What about if you patted a dog? What interactions with dogs would mean you'd have to do it again?
When i used to go for maths tuition, my tutor had a pet jack russell. He used to come put his head on my lap and go to sleep whilst i was working. No issue. It just meant when i got home i changed my clothes. I have petted many dogs before, once again, its no issue to do that, i just had to wash my hands or do the full ablution before i needed to pray again.
Personally, have you ever had a bond with a pet/animal? If a young child wanted a puppy like his friends have, how would muslim parents explain to them that it is forbidden?
I love pets. Have had bonds with many. I didnt speak to my sister for a few day after i had to give up my cat. I wanted a pet dog once, but my father explained to me about how islam views it, i accepted that.
Surely there must be some sort of scale? How else would muslims know the rules when interacting with animals?
There is no scale as such. We know these things because they are in quran and sunnah. It's been reviewed by the four schools of thought, and taught to us.
tbitm wrote:I'm guessing there was a rational reason when the Quran was written why it was a bad idea to keep dogs as pets. They can carry diseases for example. Pig when used as food would go off quickly in the middle eastern heat and would make people sick which is why that's wrong.
And zim this is from a perspective of someone who believes your book was written by average people, if you believe it's the word of god then do you.
Pigs were not just forbidden because they went bad in the middle eastern heat. I do believe the Quran is gods word, written by man in to book, yes, but the wording is gods word. Now thats my own belief, i do not impose that belief on anyone else or expect everyone to accept it. Does not stop me from practising that belief in my own private home or in the way i can without a hindrance on imposition on anyone else.Edited by tbitm: 31/7/2014 02:20:32 PM He's a sheep. I've been accused many times by zim and ricey that I'm trying to control how people think, and then I'm like the nazi's got thrown in there too. I just want it known I really don't care what you believe. I don't recall making that accusation against you. Forgive me if i have wrongly accused you of anything, but i have often said i am happy to open, and free discussion. I just draw the line when things like humbert call for me to be banned because i oppose israel or just expressed my view. Fwiw EG I didn't grow up in a secular family, as bible thumping as they come in fact. I used to have to pray before I ate mcdonalds ffs :lol:. Mix of Alabama, Oklahoma and mid state PA (basically a northern Alabama) influences in the fam. And tbh, I'm more amazed at how much religious people don't know about their religion. The bible is against pork too, doesn't stop any Christian from gobbling down bacon cheeseburgers. That might be more exclusive to Christians though, Muslims and Jews know their stuff pretty well. Edited by tbitm: 1/8/2014 05:18:21 PM Interesting to know, I was raised not quite as strictly, but in a conservative Sydney Anglican family (but yeah, we prayed at Maccas too :lol: ) In terms of Christians not being allowed to eat pork, that isn't true. Peter being tested in Acts 10 is the defence point for that. That was old Jewish law that was fulfilled (and therefore no longer relevant) through Jesus.
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tbitm
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It was only for my early early life, after 9-10 we stopped going to church every week. Guess that depends if you only pay attention to the New Testament or not. Nothing against gays in the New Testament afaik. And that's a pretty universal Christian belief
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Eastern Glory
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tbitm wrote:It was only for my early early life, after 9-10 we stopped going to church every week. Guess that depends if you only pay attention to the New Testament or not. Nothing against gays in the New Testament afaik. And that's a pretty universal Christian belief Ahh okay, my family are still Christians, I just don't see eye to eye with them on that. It just isn't how I want to live. It's not a matter of not paying attention to the OT, it's a matter of understanding it. The NT fulfils Jewish law, that's why Christians follow Jesus and Yahweh (well they do but that a Trinidadian thing :lol: ). In terms of homosexuality, the NT is clear on lust... Sex outside of wedlock is sin. Obviously that covers homosexual sex because it can never occur in a Christian marriage. Christians should have an issue with homosexual people, they should have an issue with homosexual sex. Just as the church calls on life long single people to not lust, it calls on homosexual people to do the same. Can't make it much plainer than that. The issue is with the act, not the person's feelings. Edited by eastern glory: 1/8/2014 05:58:25 PM
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u4486662
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tbitm wrote:Quote:Quote:Quote:zimbos_05 wrote:Bowden wrote:[
What makes cats, goats and sheep 'clean', whilst dogs and pigs are 'unclean'?
Who decides which side of the fence an animal sits on?
I wish i could give a definite answer to this, but i can't. Rules are in hadith and the quran which we follow.
Have you ever owned pets? If so, what side of the fence did they sit on?
Had 4 cats when we stayed in Zimbabwe. Had a cat for a bit last year, had to give him away as my sister is scared of cats. My cousin has a cat. In zims, my aunt had 2 cats, some guinea fowls, 2 guinea pigs, 2 rabbits, and a bird.
Interesting.
What about if you patted a dog? What interactions with dogs would mean you'd have to do it again?
When i used to go for maths tuition, my tutor had a pet jack russell. He used to come put his head on my lap and go to sleep whilst i was working. No issue. It just meant when i got home i changed my clothes. I have petted many dogs before, once again, its no issue to do that, i just had to wash my hands or do the full ablution before i needed to pray again.
Personally, have you ever had a bond with a pet/animal? If a young child wanted a puppy like his friends have, how would muslim parents explain to them that it is forbidden?
I love pets. Have had bonds with many. I didnt speak to my sister for a few day after i had to give up my cat. I wanted a pet dog once, but my father explained to me about how islam views it, i accepted that.
Surely there must be some sort of scale? How else would muslims know the rules when interacting with animals?
There is no scale as such. We know these things because they are in quran and sunnah. It's been reviewed by the four schools of thought, and taught to us.
tbitm wrote:I'm guessing there was a rational reason when the Quran was written why it was a bad idea to keep dogs as pets. They can carry diseases for example. Pig when used as food would go off quickly in the middle eastern heat and would make people sick which is why that's wrong.
And zim this is from a perspective of someone who believes your book was written by average people, if you believe it's the word of god then do you.
Pigs were not just forbidden because they went bad in the middle eastern heat. I do believe the Quran is gods word, written by man in to book, yes, but the wording is gods word. Now thats my own belief, i do not impose that belief on anyone else or expect everyone to accept it. Does not stop me from practising that belief in my own private home or in the way i can without a hindrance on imposition on anyone else.Edited by tbitm: 31/7/2014 02:20:32 PM He's a sheep. I've been accused many times by zim and ricey that I'm trying to control how people think, and then I'm like the nazi's got thrown in there too. I just want it known I really don't care what you believe. I don't recall making that accusation against you. Forgive me if i have wrongly accused you of anything, but i have often said i am happy to open, and free discussion. I just draw the line when things like humbert call for me to be banned because i oppose israel or just expressed my view. sorry, should've clarified. It was ricey that compared me to the nazis. You got more upset when I tried explaining how homosexuality isn't a choice. We don't have to get into that again. I like your what you said in the bold though, in that way were the same. As a free speech absolutist, I will try to convince people my pov, but end of the day I don't really care what you think as long as you aren't forcing your beliefs on anyone else. If you believe it's the word of allah, all the power to ya. Fwiw EG I didn't grow up in a secular family, as bible thumping as they come in fact. I used to have to pray before I ate mcdonalds ffs :lol:. Mix of Alabama, Oklahoma and mid state PA (basically a northern Alabama) influences in the fam. And tbh, I'm more amazed at how much religious people don't know about their religion. The bible is against pork too, doesn't stop any Christian from gobbling down bacon cheeseburgers. That might be more exclusive to Christians though, Muslims and Jews know their stuff pretty well. Edited by tbitm: 1/8/2014 05:18:21 PM The quickest way to become an atheist is to read the bible.
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Eastern Glory
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u4486662 wrote:
The quickest way to become an atheist is to read the bible.
See comments like that just make it hard to take you seriously. I'm not a Christian, but anyone can look at your comment and realise that reading the bible may rule out Judaism and Christianity as monotheistic religions (which is ridiculous, but i'll humour you) but it won't do much to rule out the existence of a God.
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notorganic
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Eastern Glory wrote:u4486662 wrote:
The quickest way to become an atheist is to read the bible.
See comments like that just make it hard to take you seriously. I'm not a Christian, but anyone can look at your comment and realise that reading the bible may rule out Judaism and Christianity as monotheistic religions (which is ridiculous, but i'll humour you) but it won't do much to rule out the existence of a God. He's right though, once that seed of doubt hits nothing confirms that doubt like reading the bible from cover to cover with a critical eye. Most ministers will hand select a verse or chapter to match the theme of their weekly sermon and ignore the more contentious bits.
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Eastern Glory
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notorganic wrote:Eastern Glory wrote:u4486662 wrote:
The quickest way to become an atheist is to read the bible.
See comments like that just make it hard to take you seriously. I'm not a Christian, but anyone can look at your comment and realise that reading the bible may rule out Judaism and Christianity as monotheistic religions (which is ridiculous, but i'll humour you) but it won't do much to rule out the existence of a God. He's right though, once that seed of doubt hits nothing confirms that doubt like reading the bible from cover to cover with a critical eye. Most ministers will hand select a verse or chapter to match the theme of their weekly sermon and ignore the more contentious bits. I'd love to meet the numerous people who've read the bible cover to cover who aren't Christians. Whilst that's true in some cases, I think you'll find most churches which are serious on their approach to and application of theology would tackle chapters and verses that don't seem pretty out of context (or even in context sometimes). One way that good churches do that is by doing sermon series' on books at a time rather than themes and ideas.
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notorganic
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Eastern Glory wrote:notorganic wrote:Eastern Glory wrote:u4486662 wrote:
The quickest way to become an atheist is to read the bible.
See comments like that just make it hard to take you seriously. I'm not a Christian, but anyone can look at your comment and realise that reading the bible may rule out Judaism and Christianity as monotheistic religions (which is ridiculous, but i'll humour you) but it won't do much to rule out the existence of a God. He's right though, once that seed of doubt hits nothing confirms that doubt like reading the bible from cover to cover with a critical eye. Most ministers will hand select a verse or chapter to match the theme of their weekly sermon and ignore the more contentious bits. I'd love to meet the numerous people who've read the bible cover to cover who aren't Christians. You'd love to meet most ex-Christians? It's an ever-growing demographic, so you'd better get busy.
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humbert
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Zim,
At which point did I call for you to be banned?
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zimbos_05
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humbert wrote:Zim,
At which point did I call for you to be banned? Well not banned, but seemed to rather bid for support in a collective motion against me.
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notorganic
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Which is funny, because you're clearly more than capable of alienating everyone without Humberts help.
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Polemides
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Quote:Chilling warning to Australia  An Islamic radical from Sydney who posed with decapitated heads in Iraq has sent back a chilling threat about "what's coming to Australia". Mohamed Elomar is wanted by the Australian Federal Police on terrorism-related charges over the grisly photos he posted on social media last week. Elomar, responding to the news of his arrest warrant, used his Twitter alias AbuHafs to hit back at the police, Australia's intelligence officials and the media, News Corp reports. "ASIO don't worry I'll be bak [sic] in direct conflict soon just need a bit time for my knee injury," he said, referring to a gunshot wound to his knee, sustained while fighting with terror group ISIS. "U should be more worried about what's coming to Australia." Elomar also defended his gruesome beheading photos. "Let them rage all they can, beheading is wat [sic] feeds the mujahideen of the Khalifa it keeps them moving forward," he said on Twitter. Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/07/31/04/06/australia-should-be-worried-wanted-isis Difficult to get a more barbaric product of Australian society these days. Brought to you courtesy of islam.
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u4486662
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notorganic wrote:Eastern Glory wrote:notorganic wrote:Eastern Glory wrote:u4486662 wrote:
The quickest way to become an atheist is to read the bible.
See comments like that just make it hard to take you seriously. I'm not a Christian, but anyone can look at your comment and realise that reading the bible may rule out Judaism and Christianity as monotheistic religions (which is ridiculous, but i'll humour you) but it won't do much to rule out the existence of a God. He's right though, once that seed of doubt hits nothing confirms that doubt like reading the bible from cover to cover with a critical eye. Most ministers will hand select a verse or chapter to match the theme of their weekly sermon and ignore the more contentious bits. I'd love to meet the numerous people who've read the bible cover to cover who aren't Christians. You'd love to meet most ex-Christians? It's an ever-growing demographic, so you'd better get busy. When you read the bible you realise, among other things, that god is a construct of the human mind.
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Eastern Glory
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u4486662 wrote:notorganic wrote:Eastern Glory wrote:notorganic wrote:Eastern Glory wrote:u4486662 wrote:
The quickest way to become an atheist is to read the bible.
See comments like that just make it hard to take you seriously. I'm not a Christian, but anyone can look at your comment and realise that reading the bible may rule out Judaism and Christianity as monotheistic religions (which is ridiculous, but i'll humour you) but it won't do much to rule out the existence of a God. He's right though, once that seed of doubt hits nothing confirms that doubt like reading the bible from cover to cover with a critical eye. Most ministers will hand select a verse or chapter to match the theme of their weekly sermon and ignore the more contentious bits. I'd love to meet the numerous people who've read the bible cover to cover who aren't Christians. You'd love to meet most ex-Christians? It's an ever-growing demographic, so you'd better get busy. When you read the bible you realise, among other things, that god is a construct of the human mind. I'd say the growing demographic isn't ex-evangelical Christians. Maybe Christians my token, but not much more I wouldn't say. @U44 you cannot realise that 'God' is a human construct by reading one book, that's simply ridiculous. How does reading the bible rule out the worship of Krishna as the correct God? Absolutely ridiculous.
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humbert
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zimbos_05 wrote:humbert wrote:Zim,
At which point did I call for you to be banned? Well not banned, but seemed to rather bid for support in a collective motion against me. You have the right to express whatever opinion you feel necessary. I have the right to ridicule it. :lol: No one ever got anywhere by banning people, Zim.
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humbert
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EG;
I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the father but through me.
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Eastern Glory
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humbert wrote:EG;
I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the father but through me. What was that in response to sorry? Can't work out the context there.
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Footyroo
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Exposed! George Soros Is Funding The Bioweapons Lab At The Focus of Ebola Outbreak!
[youtube]watch?v=MrkhA_kXo68&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ[/youtube]
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