Another issue that compounds the complexity is the yield of fans from the market. Greater Newcastle has a population of 540k. Greater Gosford, i.e. the Central Coast has a population of 310k. With a yield already higher than the Jets get is following the Jets strategy going to increase attendances or just cause casual fans to swap to memberships which loses the club $5 per game per person that swaps.

Thanks for that investigation pv4 and quite interesting. I remember at the time some 'critics' were indeed saying 'it's just because they're 'cheap' but as indeed, Bally #1 indeed said, that in itself is what contributes to it being a great marketing ploy. Makes for the perception atleast of 'affordable' family entertainment.

Many families, 'soccer parents' etc... may just 'presume' that the A-League is cost prohibitive, especially when you factor in expenses at the ground too. Not unlike going to the cinemas I suppose and parents shying away from the Candy Bar - many of us do that - but with small kids that can be harder!

Anyway, yeah, 'the idea' that they're cheaper also contributes to the 'word of mouth' even if figuratively or what not, most of the packages are indeed priced at the A-League's market value - which in-turn MAY not be THAT expensive anyway? IF compared to NRL, AFL, concerts or some such?

So yeah, hopefully more A-League clubs can do something 'similar'.

Also guys, this reminds me - IF we ever need examples as to 'The Polar Opposite' of Tinkler's Jets revolution - Look no further than Roar circa 2009 and Palmer's GCU failure.

Prices up, participation drops and the wider snowball of 'even less' engaging, turning up, due to 'bad word of mouth' of said prices going up, even IF that was in reality 3 seasons ago and prices have since dropped.

Publicity, Public Relations etc... are almost everything here. And Palmer's GCU fck up big time so many ways in this area. Crowd Cap being another.

There seemed to be a culture of excitement building, 'a movement' of sorts - there was even 'Save the Jets' etc... surrounding when Tinkler came in. A collective effort. Coming from Constantine days, things seemed dire, but like a religious revival, Tinkler the saviour came in and rallied the masses. Seems it's worked a treat?



CCM have said, and I'm sure they're working on, expanding their base into Sydney's Northern Suburbs. CCM ARE a quasi-Northern Spirit successor in a way, with McKinna, Arnie and co there. But maybe not as far south as that, but more the 'Northern Beaches' region I think - Blue Tongue may be in as close a proximity as SFS even, especially if you factor in travel time due to traffic over the Harbour Bridge?

Central Coast = 300k pop presently
+
Neighbouring Pittwater, Hornsby and Warringah Councils = 250-300k more pop atleast? = more like 600k catchment area?

But anyway, yeah, interesting. Newcastle Stadium IS a big stadium to fill, unlike Blue Tongue.

In the end I don't think the Mariners need to change too much? They just need to keep getting McKinna, Arnie, the players, marketing department and co out there and about, on radio, at community events, on the phones etc... to incrementally build up that base. Seems they ARE doing that already, with their present member base on track to set a new club record and inch closer to that 5k goal they've set.

It's growing, it may be from a 'relatively lower base' but they ARE growing?

In a way it may be 'best practice' too - slow and steady wins the race. Not 'showy' like SFC, but solid foundations - it's about 'the club' and not individuals (Like ADP).

Edited by GloryPerth: 29/7/2013 10:29:39 AM

If we also want to get into population size debates, how about we point out the fact that CCM are competing with no other major sporting teams in their region?

Jerks have done all this in a rugby-league-centric, knights-nannas-driven town.

We're also assuming that there's only this arbitrary 10k figure of fans that will come to games. I've seen it firsthand - people who are not football people have signed up for memberships because "it's cheap enough anyway". The general interest in the club, and thus the sport, in the local community has skyrocketed in Newcastle. Similar would happen at CCM IMO

Hmm yeah. But again as you point out, not a great different in price generally, except that GA admission package.

IF they did drop it a bit, that in itself is clearly not enough. Learning from Jets, it's as much, if not more, about how you publicise, market, that.

You make fair point about lack of competition in market. Though Jets may benefit from the Jets in a way, via Hunter Sports Group owning both and so their being a kind of 'in it together' partnership up there? I wouldn't be surprised if a few Jets members are ALSO Knights members or crossed over from the Knights? That helps too.


ALSO, the Mariners being 'the only team in town' also has it's own unique challenges. They have to build up a base from scratch in a way, not unlike some of the AFL teams. They have to work on terra forming the 'blank canvas' up there. Infact prior to Mariners it was primarily a RL town, right? So infact they are terra-forming a region with RL culture. So they don't seem to be going too bad?

They ALSO, due to 'lack of competition' may be at risk of 'coasting' a little or not striving off the field enough, due to this lack of NRL team competition etc... I wouldn't be surprised if, in some quarters, there WAS some 'resting on laurels' tendencies. Especially as it's clear the NRL won't be up there any time soon?

Anyway it seems slow, the growth is slow, but they seem to be chipping away? Gains ARE being made? And it will hopefully be a strong base, further integrating within the community there. It's always been a nice sized stadium and the Mariners have shown before, early A-League years, to be capable of near filling it.

So in that way too, the Mariners are kind of seeking to win some fans back and good football, success, can only help. Especially as the team's 'reputation', locally, hopefully spreads.

Edited by GloryPerth: 29/7/2013 10:39:33 AM

Jerks past 7,000

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/newcastlejets/news-display/Jets-soar-beyond-7000-Members/71601

It's 75km by road from Mona Vale to Bluetongue - even if you factor in travel time across the bridge you're still probably better off travelling to Allianz instead (especially with the free public transport to SFC games). It's even worse if you're travelling from the Pittwater area.

Besides, if you're going to make that argument then it's also worth noting that for people living on the northern end of the Central Coast (from around Doyalson north) Hunter Stadium is actually closer than Bluetongue.

Perth Glory:

Public Transport is way easier for Bluetongue TBF.

TBH I live in south-west lake macquarie and I would consider it easier (not shorter) to go to a Bluetongue game than Hunter Stadium.

Hmm I was utilising Google Earth, that probably isn't best judge. Though still, Hornsby, and the northern parts of Shires of Pittwater and and Warringah - they actually neighbour the Central Coast council and seem roughly 30km away from BlueTongue, most?

And again, the Mariners themselves have said this - they said they seek to target, expand their base into those regions.

It's indeed argued that the people in these regions 'don't have a team' even though as you say, technically some of them could travel to SFS for SFC.

It's a border/over-lapping catchment area really (For SFC and Mariners), but the more people the Mariners can snap up from that far northern region that otherwise might not go to an A-League/SFC game, the better?



Yeah I presume this too, especially in relation to say, those wishing to travel from a Hornsby, Mona Vale or what not to SFS across the bridge etc... compared to just travelling up the high way or train to Central Coast?

Differential of 'travel time', lack of traffic congestion and distance between stations, may balance out the equation?

Edited by GloryPerth: 29/7/2013 11:35:53 AM

whoops double post.

Edited by GloryPerth: 29/7/2013 11:35:33 AM

For areas like Morisset and Wyee, sure.

Lake Munmorah or Gwandalan, forget it - there is no public transport that will get you to and from Bluetongue for games, you either drive or you don't go.

2013/14 Membership Sales

Adelaide - 3,374
Brisbane - 3,000
Central Coast - 3,000
Heart - 2,885
Newcastle - 7,000
Perth -
Sydney - 3,022
Victory - 11,006
Wellington - 2,153
West Sydney - 14,000

True but for somewhere like Lake Munmorah or Gwandalan, you're pretty much resigning yourself to the fact that you're close to nothing when you move there :lol:

For reference I consider the small roundabout at the end of Morisset Golf course to be the Newcastle/CC cutoff if anyone is ever wondering. And for the east side of the lake - I don't know and don't care. I hate the east side of the lake. Probably somewhere after the giant prawn I'd consider the cutoff :lol:

Edited by pv4: 29/7/2013 11:52:12 AM

At a minimum anyone coming from Sydney by road has to travel 50km (the distance from the start of the F3 freeway to Bluetongue) - realistically it's more like 70-80km once you add the distance to the freeway from home. Sadly there isn't a shorter road route from the Northern Beaches across the Hawkesbury to the Coast.

As far as public transport goes, if you live close to the Northern or North Shore rail lines it's not too bad. If you live on the Northern Beaches you're probably better off jumping on an L90 bus into the city.

Targeting northern Sydney sounds good in theory, however in practice you aren't going to pick up that many fans.

Hmm ok. They still pursue it I think, worth trying really.

Central Coast Mariners spent one pre-season training at Knox Grammar, which is in the Upper North Shore region, closer Hornsby Shire. They've even hosted pre-season friendly games there.

I notice the rail line goes through that area, and through Hornsby and co too, straight through to Gosford Station which is right next door to Blue Tongue stadium. I know that's still 30 odd kms away, but via train it'd be a comparable journey to those travelling from the outer Perth suburbs to Glory's games. Heck, for those folk here, those are distances more like 40-50km, especially the suburbs along the coast! Mandurah's case 70km! I know NSW Rail has a bad reputation, but with a growth corridor up that way too, you'd expect public transport to improve/be upgraded somewhat in the future. Terrain does seem an issue though.

BTW In all this, Central Coast IS a growth corridor, right? So not unlike the Gold Coast or what not, having a team there is as much about the future potential than the present? So it MAY only be 300k or so, but it may also be projected to grow to 400k or more within 20 or so years?

http://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/central-coast-region

Edited by GloryPerth: 29/7/2013 12:10:40 PM

I think you give the NSW transport system far too much credit.

It takes an hour to travel between Hornsby and Bluetongue by train. That situation is exacerbated on Saturday nights by stupid timetabling that means that you have to wait more than an hour for a train back to Sydney after a Saturday 7:30 match - it's actually quicker to travel to Newcastle after those games.

That travel time hasn't changed much in the last century, and I don't think it's likely to change any time soon. That would require a major realignment of the Central Coast line through rough terrain and multiple National Parks, costing tens of billions of dollars (one of the reasons why the proposed east coast high-speed rail is so expensive!)

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to see more people from Northern Sydney become Mariners fans. I personally live on the Lower North Shore, and on my motorbike I can be at Allianz in 25 minutes - but I grew up on the Coast and I could never in a million years see myself supporting SFC.

For new fans though (particularly families), given the choice of a 70-80km trip by road/1 hour+ train trip (which isn't free) to watch the Mariners at Bluetongue or free public transport to Allianz to watch SFC the equation swings pretty heavily in SFC's favour.

I don't think you can quite compare the travel situation in Perth to the Mariners either - in Perth your choice is travel to see the Glory or not all all. Here the choice is to travel to Gosford or to travel to Sydney.



I'll believe that when I see it. The NSW government has announced major growth plans for the Coast for the last 40 years, and what we've ended up with is a mish mash of development with abysmal infrastructure and people being forced to travel to Sydney and Newcastle for work. The Warnervale town centre project was supposed to be completed around 2007 (with a train station!), yet at the moment it's a fenced off area of farmland and bush.

Pretty good. Imagine if they ever have a successful season and some bandwagoners, the 22000 odd crowd at the Knights on the weekend looked pretty cool, Imagine getting that many to Jets games



My guess -> caves beach is Newcastle, Budgewoi is coast, Catherine Hill Bay is just getting high and surfing

They will when they play the Wanderers. Twice this season.

2,226 for 'Nix

Cheers

2013/14 Membership Sales

Adelaide - 3,374
Brisbane - 3,000
Central Coast - 3,000
Heart - 2,885
Newcastle - 7,000
Perth -
Sydney - 3,022
Victory - 11,006
Wellington - 2,226
West Sydney - 14,000

There is a bus from Lake Munmorah and Gwandalan that runs between Swansea and Wyong, WOuld take a long time and getting back after the game there would be no services. Fewer people on the Central Coast live close to the railway line in any case, many more people in Newcastle would be along the railway line. What your talking about is irrelevant though, from what I have seen very few Central Coast and Newcastle supporters ever bother catching public transport to home games. Newcastle you would have more people living closer to the ground. South West of the lake , hardly anyone lives there. same goes for Gwandalan,l Central Coast there is a large pocket of people around Toukley and Lake Haven which is 40k from GOsford.

victory - 12,766

2013/14 Membership Sales

Adelaide - 3,374
Brisbane - 3,000
Central Coast - 3,000
Heart - 2,885
Newcastle - 7,000
Perth -
Sydney - 3,022
Victory - 12,766
Wellington - 2,226
West Sydney - 14,000


Total membership sales - 51,273

Edited by Joffa: 29/7/2013 07:20:14 PM

Is wanderers actually beating victory? They could average over twenty five thousand if they had a big enough stadium

Wanderers will lose a few games in a row and half the people with membership will not go to games lol

In response to a query on Redoutloud from 'Jerry' regarding a membership counter the club says:

Hi Jerry
Yes , we will get one done. We have had a promising start with some 3,374 joining to date - 2012/13 Total 4,696.
The number and type of membership offer varies from Club to Club in the A League. As such it is very difficult to make accurate comparisons. At this stage our Membership includes the various forms of Season Ticket Holders and AUMCInc only.
http://www.adelaidereds.com.au/red/default.aspx

Edited by vanbasten88: 29/7/2013 10:53:47 PM

You are boring. and heck.. you laughing at yourself. I hope macedonia is not full of creeps like you

Don't confuse memberships with bums on seats.

Many things influence memberships sales, the notible in the case for WSW, is the lesson learned last season by non members who missed out on tickets to the only 2 sell out matches against SFC.

If they could average 25,000 that would be awesome, but I can't see where those numbers would come from compared to last year. Perhaps when the upgrade of the stadium is complete, game day experience may encourage more to the mix, along with a few more seats (but these will only cater for 1 or 2 sell out games per year). Current facilities at Parra stadium are embarassing, I'm so glad WSW have had the clout to get things moving.