right about now it's 80/20 to rusty......carving afro up.......

the problem isn't capitalism its government inability to govern capitalists

Coming from you that's quite hilarious. You're one if the most one sided and divisive people on this forum.

So what do you propose? Not asking for your usual whinges and gripes, or your usual motherhood statements but what genuine changes should Australia make?

:lol: this was my first thought when I read it too

Also :lol: at people attempting to "blame" Afro for pointing out flaws in something but not having a solution. I'm sure there's millions of people who have gone to uni and stuff that are paid on a daily basis to work out how to solve capitalism - and THEY haven't even figured it out!

I argue from my own base, not some imagined line in the sand. Labels like left & right are retarded, and you do your own arguments no favours by only arguing in a derogatory way towards "lefties", without much reasoning other than them standing on the other side of the imaginary line.

Afro can you elaborate on this please........Examples please.....[/quote]

Have you looked at the divide of economics in the US since the GFC?

Have you looked at the divide of economics in the US since the GFC? [/quote]

oh so now we are specifically looking at the USA??!??!??

and here i was thinking we were talking about capitalism.......

I'm using the USA as an example of what you are talking about.

So... More glib motherhood statements but no actual solutions?

Got a different blueprint to propose? Propose away.

a few posts back someone mentioned commercial entities pumping money into political parties....and this is a huge problem...more so in the case of the USA as they have a president and it's obvious to see from their elections the amount of fanfare and money thrown at winning the election that the party has been bought......so Afro saying that this is the fault of capitalism holds a little water but so does the political structure of a country....Australia has limits on funding of political parties, media ownership, cross media ownership ETC....

the USA don't have minimum wages or social welfare....and they have what i believe to be low taxes ...so perhaps this is why there are deeper problems in the USA than in australia.....

Wouldn't the second issue, at least in part, be the result of bad capitalistic practice?

well does it matter if it's capitalism,socialism,communism????

it's the governments lack of governing that allows it...at the end of the day we all need to operate within the guidelines set down and if you don't you can be prosecuted, there is no bigger arse kicker than government....

so simple answer is Government has allowed any of these doctrines to operate and do what they do.....

ANYWAY BACK ON THREAD....................

do you try and buy Quality australian grown produce or you dont care???

Accepting the status quo instead of looking for ways to improve will inevitably stall progress.

Corporate sponsorship of electoral campaigns should be banned because parties end up serving the interests of the corporate backers instead of the interests of their constituents. It's "by the people for the people", not "by the people for the company with the biggest wallet".

If the incumbent system of wealth redistribution was as flawless as you claim, we we wouldn't be seeing record levels of people living below the poverty line. Your contention amounts to that "the rich deserve to be rich", which is a flawed concept and you know it.

is socialism flawless???

is communism flawless????

is capitalism flawless??

is mother nature flawless????

we need to make sure we have a robust government that make sure there is a balance....i hope we don't follow the USA with our politics...!!!! it appears that's where we are heading.....

You don't understand Batfink! If something isn't flawless we can't use it! :roll:

At least with the US electoral system the people have control over which specific individual is in power, unlike the Windsor System.

only in australia can we believe that either KRUDD or ABBOTT is who we are voting for.....

we are voting for the party but of course the media and the polls would have us think other wise

That doesn't make the status quo bad. It's the best, most successful system we know, the only with any sort of positive track record. Perhaps you should be looking for ways to improve capitalism rather than uprooting it for some fantasy, hypothetical social economic formula that doesn't exist. Ideas without substance are enough to stall progress.



Corporations are constituents as well, their success or demise can rest on public policy. They may not have a vote but they can influence the political process in ways that protect their shareholders interests. If those interests are seen as antithetical to the interests of the general public they will get defeated. It all balances out.



Where did I claim it was 'flawless'? That's a lie. We're seeing a decline in poverty not an increase. Look at China and India, those are rapidly growing economies due mostly in part to a burgeoning private sector and capitalist principles underpinning economic reform, and incidentally where poverty rates are among the fastest falling in the world. Yes the rich are getting richer but so are the poor. If the rich generate jobs and goods and services that are of benefit to the economy they deserve their wealth.

Edited by rusty: 15/7/2013 07:01:32 PM

do you really want individuals in charge???? isn't having a party a more balanced and safe approach????

Hey notor, still no vision from you mate. All these things you're against... and you have nothing concrete to offer. Don't tell us what's wrong, tell us what's better.

you do realise he suffers from selective amnesia.....

You tell me what i'm against mate, and I'll tell you how myself and all my pink, communist mates propose to fix it.

What are you against, notor?

pretty much anything unless it's ALP or Greens

I was asking notor

so........

I'm against many things, it's hard to pull something out of the air without context. The point I was making is that thupercoach and batfink are grilling for answers that they assume could only come from "the left", without much consideration of the issues themselves.

If we're talking about food specifically, I'm against the laws that prevent me from choosing the healthiest form of foods for myself and my family such as raw milk. I'm against food companies taking the view of profit over consumer health and undercutting healthier foods, thus pricing out generally well meaning families from providing nutrient dense meals that taste great and don't cause diabetes.

If we're talking about the environment and industry, I refuse to believe that there is no middle ground between profit and environmental conservation the way some would have us believe.

well Matt you would be chuffed with KRUDD annoucements today????????

What announcements?

all the green initiatives he is now cancelling.....