Fred Phelps, Westboro Baptist Church Founder, Is 'On The Edge Of Death'
The Huffington Post | by Ryan Grenoble


Fred Phelps, the founder of the highly controversial Westboro Baptist Church, which is known for protesting high-profile funerals with signs that read "God Hates Fags," is said to be dying at a hospice center in Kansas.

The news comes via Nate Phelps, one of Fred's estranged children, who wrote this in a Facebook post Saturday night.

I've learned that my father, Fred Phelps, Sr., pastor of the "God Hates Fags" Westboro Baptist Church, was ex-communicated from the "church" back in August of 2013. He is now on the edge of death at Midland Hospice house in Topeka, Kansas.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Terribly ironic that his devotion to his god ends this way. Destroyed by the monster he made.

I feel sad for all the hurt he's caused so many. I feel sad for those who will lose the grandfather and father they loved. And I'm bitterly angry that my family is blocking the family members who left from seeing him, and saying their good-byes.

In an interview with Patheos, Nate confirmed the statement was true, saying he'd spoken with several other family members who, like him, had previously been "excommunicated" from the church.

Westboro Baptist Church did not immediately respond to a request for comment from The Huffington Post.

Best thing is that the WBC excommunicated him, so for all we know they'll be picketing his funeral along with the rest of the world.

That's what you get when you live your life by a creed of hate.

Edited by paladisious: 17/3/2014 08:18:03 PM

celebrating the death of an innocent man
how tasteless

He founded and actively campaigned for one of the most hated organisations of the 21st century. He's hardly 'innocent'. Don't let the fact that the monster he created excommunicated him soften public opinion of him, he was a horrible man.

meh.

just a strawman group for the huffington post to wind its readers up about. hardly as important as you make them out to be.

he wasnt convicted of anything, therefore innocent

there are far worse people and groups in this world you should be turning your attention to.

Hitler wasn't convicted of anything. Therefor innocent.

meh.

just a strawman group for the huffington post to wind its readers up about. hardly as important as you make them out to be.

he wasnt convicted of anything, therefore innocent

there are far worse people and groups in this world you should be turning your attention to.

Godwin's law arrived a little early today

Your stupidity was first past the post though.

Not really, Fred Phelps has never committed a crime. Just because he you ideologically oppose him doesn't mean his death should be celebrated.

I don't think Mr Snowden was exercising his free speech, or what he did had anything to do with free speech.

You aren't seriously opposed to Snowden are you?

why would anyone be opposed to a CIA op doing his job #-o

NSA civilian contractor, who had a moral opposition with his job.

History is never made by those who behave. The founders of Snowden's country that he is now exiled from would agree wholeheartedly.

Be that as it may, Snowden's actions don't fall under the remit of the 1st amendment.

NSA civilian contractor, who had a moral opposition with his job.

History is never made by those who behave. The founders of Snowden's country that he is now exiled from would agree wholeheartedly.

inb4 thread degeneration.

Anddddddd no one will care....

He founded and actively campaigned for one of the most hated organisations of the 21st century. He's hardly 'innocent'. Don't let the fact that the monster he created excommunicated him soften public opinion of him, he was a horrible man.

RIP in piece worlds greatest troll



Not really, Fred Phelps has never committed a crime. Just because he you ideologically oppose him doesn't mean his death should be celebrated.

So you ignore his abhorrent actions and selfish ideology because he's religious?

Lets face it, if he wasn't a Christian people would be a lot more upset.

i doubt that

why dont you turn your attention to the various Islamic governments around the world and examine their position on homosexuality...

America being a Christian nation makes his actions less horrific because he's standing up for 'Christian Morals.' I have no respect for any religious condemnation of homosexuality. It's all pathetic. But this thread is about WBC not Islam.

Freedom of speech has its price and that is common decency.

real Christians preach tolerance and forgiveness
we live in Australia by the way...the majority of this forum's membership anyway, as this is an Australian forum, therefore that this person lived in America is completely immaterial to the discussion

you're giving Islam a free pass whilst condemning Christianity based on the views of one man who it could be successfully argued was not demonstrative of Christian values

you dont see the hypocrisy of your position?

This thread is about an American based organisation and an American :lol:

:lol: Here we go! 'Real' Christians? You can't cherry pick the good ones. Islam does not get a free pass. All condemnation of homosexuality on religious grounds is pathetic. I've said this twice now, learn to read.

What hypocrisy? My position is that condemning homosexuality on religious grounds is unconditionally pathetic whether it's Islam, Christianity or Judaism or whatever. I'm also saying that while WBC does not commit crimes under the freedom of speech laws, their actions are indecent. What the f*ck is wrong with your eyes?

your position is that 'people' would be more upset about this man exercising his right to free speech if he wasnt Christian
well you're being quite open in your hatred of Christianity on this forum yet you conveniently ignore the actions of Islam against those of homosexual persuasion.

that is proof enough that your original statement is a complete fallacy

I stand by that. America is a Christian nation and therefore I anticipate that they have a lot more tolerance towards fellow adherents of their religion. If it was Islamic adherents doing the picketing there would be far more public hatred towards the actions.

The funeral picketing wouldn't fly in Australia.

Edit: I don't hate Christianity. I hate the actions of some Christians. WBC are people I hate because of their arrogance and their lack of compassion for grieving families. They believe their religious beliefs supersede the grief of loss. How is that anything but disgusting?

Edited by benelsmore: 18/3/2014 10:57:41 AM

you might want to acquaint yourself with the views of Amercian muslims on the subject

I stand by that. America is a Christian nation and therefore I anticipate that they have a lot more tolerance towards fellow adherents of their religion. If it was Islamic adherents doing the picketing there would be far more public hatred towards the actions.

The funeral picketing wouldn't fly in Australia.

Read the Crimes Against Humanity thread. We hate without discrimination or favour.

so you're a hate group
sounds constructive

a) Not a christian nation. The founding fathers were quite clear on that. The pledge of allegiance was changed in the mid 70's to 'one nation under god'.
b) They do not tolerate the funeral picketing. Research the Patriot Guard


It is not our constitutional right to do so as it is in USA

a) Not a christian nation. The founding fathers were quite clear on that. The pledge of allegiance was changed in the mid 70's to 'one nation under god'.
b) They do not tolerate the funeral picketing. Research the Patriot Guard


It is not our constitutional right to do so as it is in USA

Yes. The bearded ones, secular fascists, homophobes, and misogynists are all worthy of my hate.

a) You're absolutely right. Re. the 1st amendment, and Treaty of Tripoli
b) It's tolerated in the sense that it is legal.

Ah ok, point clarified. Then, yes I agree with you. Well I have great admiration for their freedoms on one hand, but on the other hand it does allow very stupid people to voice their opinions. You really can't win either way.

sounds like a lifetime well spent

It will be a great day when he dies

I will be singing and dancing to celebrate my dislike of him

It will be a great day when he dies

I will be singing and dancing to celebrate my dislike of him

RIP in piece worlds greatest troll

Exactly. And the US media fed the troll like no other in human history.

I guess society likes to give bigots like Phelps a voice as they serve to make us feel better about ourselves.

I stand by that. America is a Christian nation and therefore I anticipate that they have a lot more tolerance towards fellow adherents of their religion. If it was Islamic adherents doing the picketing there would be far more public hatred towards the actions.

a) Not a christian nation. The founding fathers were quite clear on that. The pledge of allegiance was changed in the mid 70's to 'one nation under god'.
b) They do not tolerate the funeral picketing. Research the Patriot Guard


It is not our constitutional right to do so as it is in USA

If there is someone who has a grave worth dancing on, worth spitting on, worth urinating on, it is this douchebag here

Pastor Fred Phelps is gone, called to glory if you believe the teachings of his hate-spewing ministry, the Westboro Baptist Church. To me it seems more likely that his remains are mouldering away somewhere, obeying the laws of physics and biology. Either way, it is a moment to pause and reflect on the man and his legacy.
I had form with “Gramps”, as his family and followers liked to call him. I made two documentaries about his church for the BBC: The Most Hated Family In America in 2006 and America’s Most Hated Family in Crisis in 2010. In all, I suppose I spent about a month with the members of the WBC, trying to figure out what induces them to dedicate their every spare moment – when they aren’t keeping down respectable jobs as lawyers, correctional officers, salesmen in their hometown of Topeka – to flying around the country standing as close as they are legally allowed to funeral-goers, and waving hate-filled placards with slogans like “Thank God for Dead Soldiers”, “Fags Eat Poop”, and of course “God Hates Fags”.. They became notorious for picketing the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. In the WBC teachings, the soldiers were being punished for fighting for a nation doomed in the eyes of God for its tolerance of homosexuality.
Their main scriptural inspiration is the passage in Leviticus that mandates the death penalty for gay sex (“Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is an abomination”) though for some reason the adjacent verses that proscribe astrology in similar terms never seem to excite the WBC quite so much. Not to mention that Jesus Christ himself – something of an authority on Christian affairs, one would think - had literally nothing to say on the subject of gay sex or shouting at funerals and plenty to say about kindness and humility.
The WBC has tended to be a family affair, overwhelmingly made up of Gramps’ lineal descendants and their spouses. They live in suburban Topeka, in a collection of houses with their gardens all connected, which they call “Zion”. Gramps was the prime move behind the practices of the church. He founded it at a time and place when the idea of abominating sodomites was mainstream in American Christian circles. In some respects, it was the times that changed, becoming more tolerant of homosexuality, leaving the WBC behind in their dogged adherence to old-style fire-and-brimstone bible thumping. But it’s also the case homosexuality seems to have been an idee fixe with Pastor Phelps: it struck a nerve.
According to legend, the WBC inaugurated their anti-gay pickets when a local Topeka park – Gage Park, as I recall – became a cruising ground. The Phelps decided to make signs and demonstrate against the practice. This was in the eighties. The WBC doctrine evolved into a belief that the whole of America was fallen and damned in God’s eyes, as was anyone who fought under the American flag – or indeed who wasn’t a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. We are all either “fags” or “fag enablers”: you, me, Desmond Tutu, Princess Di, Donald Rumsfeld, Billy Graham – though possibly not Robert Mugabe, Gramps had a soft spot for him. An eternity in Hell is the fate of anyone who doesn’t get baptised into the WBC and spend their free time traveling the country waving hate-filled placards, at political events, at colleges, and places associated – even in the most tortuous way – with tolerance of homosexuality.
While I was with them, they had a regular local picket of a hardware store that sold Swedish vacuum cleaners. The Swedish government had imprisoned a pastor for homophobic preaching, and for the WBC that made the store a legitimate target for a ritualized biblical smackdown. For the newcomer, these pickets are bizarre not simply because of the venom of the signs, but also because of how they clash with the banality of the family interaction. For the Phelps, it’s another day at the office – there’s a water-cooler ambience of relaxed chit-chat. Meanwhile, everyone, even the youngest children, are carrying placards saying “Thank God for 9/11”, “Your Pastor is a Whore”, and “Fag Sweden”.
There is no question that over the years their caravan of religious bigotry has made life miserable for thousands of people, many of them vulnerable mourners hoping to pay tribute to recently departed loved ones. It boggles the mind to remember that among their proposed picketing targets was the funeral of some young Amish children who had been shot by a deranged gunman. In the tortured logic of the WBC, those Amish kids’ died because their parents weren’t out holding their own pickets denouncing homosexuality. In the end, the WBC only called off the event after they were promised airtime on a local radio station, effectively holding the community to ransom.
But the WBC also made life miserable for themselves and inflicted a distorted and poisonous view of the world on the youngest members of their own family, holding over their heads the threat that any deviation or failure of commitment (not going to a picket; socializing with outsiders) would result in a lifetime of banishment. Ex-members – of which there are quite a few – can have no contact with the church. They are cut loose and cast adrift.
Given their eagerness to court controversy, and their willingness to offend and make themselves into cartoon, it’s not surprising that there are misapprehensions about the WBC. Unlike hate groups like the Ku Klux Klan, the WBC never claim to hate gay people themselves, only that God does. I’m pretty sure there was at least one gay man in the congregation of the WBC. Even on the pickets, the Phelps could be civil. The hostility they expressed was a role that they enacted, dictated by a doctrine they had imbibed from their church leader and paterfamilias. You can find videos on YouTube of counter-demonstrators having cordial chats with Phelps picketers. I don’t doubt if you knocked on the door of the second generation Phelps and said you had some questions about Jesus, they’d let you in and maybe offer you a glass of water. Pastor Phelps was a different story: a hater by instinct.
I’m proud to say he took against me from the moment we met. I asked him how many children he had. He disliked this question. The interview was cut short. After that, we continued filming but I hardly saw Pastor Phelps. I had the feeling he was hiding from me. We eventually crossed paths again, though, in church one Sunday at the end of his sermon, preached on the subject of America’s coming tribulations. “You’re going to eat your babies!” he bellowed. One-on-one, Gramps still had the remnants of a folksy, plainspoken charm, but underneath was a bitter contempt for humanity in general and me specifically. I asked him how he could possibly know that the WBC members were the only people in the world bound for heaven. “I can’t talk to you, you’re just too dumb,” he said. It seemed I was a hell-bound sinner. Well, at least I was in good company.
I’ve heard people speculate that Phelps had repressed gay leanings or that perhaps he was sexually assaulted when young leading to a lasting animosity to homosexuality. Personally I doubt it. I think there may be small clue to his mindset in his having attended West Point academy: I suspect he hated it there and had a lasting dislike of the military, which partly explains the picketing of funerals. But there may be no simple causal precursor to his behaviour. He was just an angry bigoted man who thrived on conflict. There are credible reports from his disaffected offspring (four of his 13 children left the church) that he was physically abusive to his wife Marge; that he was violent to his children and had an intermittent problem with pills. A lawyer, he won some civil rights cases and received an award from the NAACP. But Phelps liked going against the grain. Later on, he realized he could outrage even more people and create more turbulence by using a handful of Old Testament verses to justify the weird mission of waving homophobic placards at every opportunity.
The members of the WBC like being attacked for their activities. They thrive on the presence of counter-demonstrators: the patriotic bikers who would sometimes turn up and rev their engines to drown out the Phelps songs at military funerals and also the students who turned out in droves to sing and register their dissent when the WBC held pickets near their campus. For the WBC, this meant they were getting a reaction and they would quote bible verses to the effect that being hated by the world was a sign of godliness.
In some ways I think the counter-demonstrators feed into the church’s world view. The WBC and their enemies exist in a feedback loop, with the church taking strength from the idea that they are having an impact. The church enjoys the image of itself as an indefatigable and godly remnant, hopelessly outnumbered, facing the hoards of a hostile world and valiantly sticking to their message in the face of violence and abuse. Indifference was a harder reaction for them to deal with, although they faced plenty of that as well without being much deterred.
It has been reported that Pastor Phelps had been “excommunicated” from his own church before he died (probably this doesn’t mean much more than being prevented from preaching; I doubt he was out wandering the streets). In 2010 I heard a similar rumour. Then, the word was that Gramps was panicking about a multi-million dollar lawsuit brought against the church by the family of a dead soldier whose funeral they had picketed. (The WBC ended up winning the case on appeal.) The rest of the church viewed Gramps’ failure of nerve as evidence of lack of faith in God’s plan and they put him on the naughty pew for a time-out.
The truth is, despite being its founder and main preacher, Gramps has been a marginal figure within the WBC for some years. When I made my documentaries the dominant force was Fred’s daughter, Shirley Phelps-Roper, a gifted organizer who could sling religious obloquy while holding four separate placards and wearing a bandana with a message of religious hate – in a different context it would have been impressive. In fact, underneath her programming, and despite all the pain she inflicted in the name of her religion, Shirley is basically a kind person.
But my sense is that Shirley has been pushed aside by an axis of WBC men, among them her brothers, Tim and Jonathan, and also the WBC convert Steve Drain, with Steve possibly in the driving seat. This is speculation on my part; but it struck me when I spent time among the WBC members that Steve was the most likely to take over the church. Steve had originally come to the WBC to make a documentary (called “Hatemongers”) and ended up moving in, bringing his wife and two daughters from Florida. It was striking that he too called Pastor Phelps “Gramps”. He had disconnected from his own parents and found a surrogate family. Steve is an intelligent man but arrogant. In personality, he is closer to Pastor Phelps than any of Gramps’ natural children. The ones I met all have the slight air of being survivors of an abusive upbringing.
Where the WBC goes from here is anybody’s guess. I haven’t been following the doings of the WBC as closely in recent years. Evidently they have been attracting some new members from outside the family. A few years ago there was news that a US marine and his family had been baptized into the church. Just as striking was the report that a British man had moved to Topeka from England, joined the church and married Jael Phelps. A few weeks ago I found a photo on Twitter of Jael at a picket holding a tiny baby. In its abundant procreation, the family has no shortage of future recruits.
With Gramps’ death I don’t expect huge changes. The church has always operated according to the dynamics of a large family rather than a cult. Cults don’t typically excommunicate their “charismatic leaders”. Families do: they put their aging parents in a granny annex and take away the keys to the car. Maybe, like other families, the bereavement will bring them together. In another context, that might be a comforting thought. In this case one rather wishes that they the second generation Phelps would continue to feud and fragment – and perhaps in the process moderate their way of thinking and get in touch with some of the apostate children they no longer see or communicate with.
The more chilling thought is a backward looking one, of how one man and his hateful cast of mind caused so much pain and managed to poison the well of his family for generations – in such a way that that his legacy of causing upset and provoking conflict is likely to continue. His offspring and their offspring have been raised to believe that abuse is kindness and that Christian charity dictates that one should hurl invective at vulnerable people. The natural bonds of family have been braided into this twisted thinking so that children who love their parents and siblings can’t separate those feelings from their sense of obligation to the church and its creed. And when they leave they also take with them the nagging guilt and fear that haven’t just lost a family, they have lost their only chance of salvation. All of this can be traced back to one man.
Gramps is dead, inanimate matter now. Of that I have no doubt. But if there were a hell, he would be there.

As stated, my first reaction when I heard he was on death's door was that I hoped everyone within 2000km picketed his funeral - as Slayer have stated that they plan to do. But on second thought returning the 'favour' to a senile and hate-filled old man strikes me as incredibly infantile. Especially since he was excommunicated by the church for softening his stance as he aged. Unloved by the monster he created and hated by society seems like a brutal enough punishment.

But above all, if you find yourself mimicking the actions of the WBC you need to take a long hard look at yourself.