http://afootballstory.blogspot.com.au/2014/10/part-one-of-interview-former-socceroos.html?m=1

Some interesting points made.

Thanks Justafan.

That's great. Thanks :)

Edited by justafan: 22/10/2014 10:21:50 PM

After going to watch the 2004 born SA SAPs trials tonight I agree with what is said here. It is not working. Like watching a bunch of 6 year olds play. The coaching obviously is not up to scratch at this level and more needs to be done at the U12 and below age group.

what's not working what's going wrong? Thanks

I'm not an ex elite player but I agree and have said all of what this bloke is saying. Coaches need a wil to teach even to lose teach even to put thier own team under pressure to teach. You don't get that from a certificate


Edited by krones3: 22/10/2014 10:39:58 PM

I went to watch a friend of mine's kid out of interest but the biggest thing I noticed is a lack of game awareness, no movement of players into space to receive the ball (most would not even notice to give a pass), poor body position i.e. not trying to face forward when receiving the pass and not keeping the ball moving into space with first touch running with the head up.

It appeared to be get the ball head down take the players on until you lose the ball or shoot with no intention of looking for a pass. U6 stuff. To the point where the coach had to call them in and tell them do not just run with the ball but think about what you want to do next.

SAP of the NC is about 1v1, running with the ball, striking the ball and first touch. No just run with the ball. Out of the NC SAP stage model sessions:

"Since the Skill Games are games in which all the Game Specific Resistances are present (team-mates; opponents; goals; direction; etc) they also provide an ideal opportunity to gradually establish the basic principles of the team tasks during the main moments of the game (e.g. ‘make the field small’ when defending; ‘try to face forward’ when attacking). In other words: the emphasis in the Skill Acquisition Phase is on skill development but this can/should not be separated from developing insight/game understanding at the same time."

This is because the majority of the games played on Sunday at this level is about the result not about trying to teach the kids to play out of situations i.e. kick it out for a throw in if under pressure, long balls over the midfield and so on.

Gombau in his training sessions always stressed never give up the ball, if you have space run into the space with your first touch and protect the ball but look for the line of pass. To find a line of pass you at least need kids to understand they need to provide a option not just stand still i.e. at least use the width of the pitch at this age group. To me it is not about tactics but just making a passing option to start with.

There are some kids with good skills at times but if they are not in this environment for a extend period of time (not 20 sessions and back to your club) it is going to be a matter of re training again the next time the SAPs are held and when they reach the Skilleroo teams. Hopefully habits can be changed at that time. This may be why we do not create players who can breakdown the final third.

I will not be able to attend the next 2 nights left to see how it all progresses.

Good to see he hasn't lost his ego.

I find it ironic that he thinks the current AIS coaches are unqualified and were given their positions through "jobs for the boys" but then goes to say he should be given a role with the Socceroos even though he has less qualifications and coaching experience. I agree though that the likes of Okon, Vidmar and Talay were appointed to important positions beyond their capabilities and experience. Regardless of what you have done as a player you still need to do the qualifications and learn the coaching process. In Brazil youth coaches in professional clubs have to hold a bachelor degree in physical education, sport science or coaching, many Bundesliga youth coaches also have 3 or 4 year degrees in addition to their UEFA badges.

It's the reality of the situation and many of you don't like what you hear but things must change if we are to go forward.

He's probably just bitter ;)

Actually thats a good question, is developing game sense part of the NC?

Well this bit is straight out the FFA NC Skills Acquisition Phase:

"Since the Skill Games are games in which all the Game Specific Resistances are present (team-mates; opponents; goals; direction; etc) they also provide an ideal opportunity to gradually establish the basic principles of the team tasks during the main moments of the game (e.g. ‘make the field small’ when defending; ‘try to face forward’ when attacking). In other words: the emphasis in the Skill Acquisition Phase is on skill development but this can/should not be separated from developing insight/game understanding at the same time. If this approach is applied properly, it will provide a seamless transition into the game Training phase. "

"Training must remain focused on skill development; it is poor practice and detrimental to the players to sacrifice critical skill training time in order to conduct unnecessary ‘tactical’ coaching. Match Day is when the coach can start developing the players insight and understanding of the basic team and player tasks. This involves reinforcement and elaboration of the basic tasks introduced at training during Skill Games (‘Get between the lines’, ‘Can you face forward?’ ‘Look for the killer pass’, ‘Make the field big’, etc) It is also disadvantageous for young players’ development to specialize for a specific team position too early; let them experience the various positions and aim for specialisation during the Game Training phase (the rationale for this is excellently explained in the book ‘Coaching Outside the Box’ by Mairs and Shaw)."

So in theory yes, but it doesn't seems straight forward to develop with our coaches. Peter Kat. then doesn't have a point from his rant.

I guess its also about continuing to try and improve coach education down to the grassroots as much as possible. I hope the new Belgian TD can still look to make improvements in this crucial area. We have made some great strides in the last few years in youth development but we must look to continue to strive for greater improvement.



Edited by Barca4life: 23/10/2014 01:44:27 PM

Interesting comments.

Peter Kat seems to think that former players should be exempt from pursuing coaching licences. Good players don't always make good coaches. The key to a football coach is the ability to communicate. Former players have differing abilities to communicate.

From what I've seen of the SAP it is excellent.

However, if I've ever been unsure of anything, I've had a look at how the state head SAP coach plans and conducts sessions.

Pete K, says there is no manual. SAP is based on eight week cycles. Two weeks of First Touch , two weeks of Running With The Ball, two weeks of 1v1 Attacking and Defensive Skills and two weeks of Striking The Ball. There is a lot of onus on trained coaches planning appropriate sessions.

I've extrapolated SAP sessions for 12 year olds, from the state SAP head coach, and done them with senior players too. The senior players thought they derived value from them.

I'd admit, if I had not had access to the state SAP coach, I could have been struggling. The Academy Sessions thread posted on here filled a few gaps.





Edited by Decentric: 23/10/2014 02:10:58 PM

My issue is it appears at this age group in the trials it isjust about running with the ball and taking on players. I am not sure if this is all we should be encouraging when there are other aspects to Skills Acquisition Phase than just that. Or is this all we should be focusing on?

Would it be so hard to send to clubs a summary of this is what we are looking for in the small sided games they are playing each night (my understanding is that it is all SSG only for the trials from other parents who have attended previosuly) something as simple as this:

Day 1 - First touch, we have a smaller pitch looking at first touch to get out of tight situation.
Day 2 - Running with the ball and 1v1, slightly larger pitch looking for these 2 skill sets
Day 3 - Looking at passing, in particular a killer pass and creating options for a pass.

That would at least give the kids the opportunity to show their full skill set in line with the skills acquisition phase.

Should they also not run a session from the FFA NC in full as well rather than just SSG all night? Not sure on the answers just putting it out there.

The theory is great the reality is different.

A lot of the stuff I've done with the SAP state head coach involves rondos, into three distinct SSGs.

3v1 - this involves the player on the ball constantly having to make an angled pass to the other players in Ball Possession.

4v2 - this manifests as a diamond shape and gives the players in Ball Possession the opportunity of making the killer pass- the one that goes from one side of the diamond to the other and splits the two defenders in Ball Possession Opposition. The BP team can also make the angled passes, and can play right, left and middle.

5v2 or 5v 3 - this involves the diamond with a dot in the possession group. Two off the ball in BPO is easier for an attacking team originally. The KNVB game suggests defensive instructions to the 3 in BPO, but the FFA NC doesn't at lower age levels.

If one uses these SSGs, in the second phase , or Conditioning Games of a four phase coaching plan, the players are constantly playing in diamonds and triangles under defensive pressure. This simulates match conditions.

I cannot see what Peter Katholos is so critical about. It sound alike he struggles to create training ground sessions, because they are too cerebral. At last year's FFA state conference, there is lot more training ground material available to use to devise training ground sessions for coaches, that apply to particular problems identified by coaches that a team is having.

I've sent some diagrams of the above training ground regimes by email to about 20 odd posters on this forum. The state TD at the time was happy for me to do this, but not post them directly on the internet. If anybody treading this is interested, I can send you these rondo/SSGs by email in diagrammatic form.

When the state TD visited Barcelona, they were doing heaps of these three rondos.


I'm just wondering who was taking the SAP sessions you observed, Justafan?


Were they one of the head SAP coaches in your state?

Or were they one of the coaches at a NPL club who've just taken it onboard this year?

Some of the club NPL coaches are having difficulty designing these training ground sessions. They are cerebral and it reminds me of my day job as a teacher. It is like preparing lesson plans for school, but in this case it is for football.

1v1 Defensive and Attacking skills

First Touch

Running With The Ball

Striking The Ball


These should be given equal weighting in technique from ages 9-13.

I could send this.

However, there are paid officials who work for FFA, and state branches of FFA, who should be doing this within the parameters of their job description.

If there is a SAP operating, it would/should be under the supervision of a SAP educatorleadership coach from your branch of FFA.

The role is called something like Game Development Manager in a designated FFA area or state.

It sound like your organisation needs a staff coach from FFA state/regional branch to provide advice.

I may be biased about SAP and the Skilleroos, as I may have been fortuitous enough to have worked with one of the best SAP coach educators in the country. One of the FFA curriculum SAP writers, with one appointed from each state. They worked on a a panel with Berger to devise the SAP curriculum. The state TD was excellent too.

When Katholos mentioned Coerver, SAP is like Coerver, but with the element of game sense and learning techniques in match related scenarios.

It is weird how the system works in FFA. I had one SAP coach appointed by FFA, ask me for the contact details of the SAP head coach in my state, from what I'd posted on this forum. He wanted to train under him, yet they are at the same ranking within the FFA organisation. I'm not sure of the all the machinations of the FFA organisation.:-k

I just hope you haven't got one of the slackers operating in your area.

We do not have an SAP in my area.

I think every u9 in Australia should do the same drills across the country week one drill one.
There should be a national skills test.
You can have every certificate but still not understand player development and football.
FFA accadomies offer no more for the same money as private ones do.
And yes too many FFA coaches are selected on (jobs for the boys ) and worse kept on and even protected by the machine.

A skill test scares the shit out of shit coaches and TD's.

These are trials to be selected for the SAP 20 session program but how do you select the best if you only focus on 1 thing during 3 days of trials. SSG only with no passing encouraged just get and run with it from what I saw.

I would have thought a 4 day trial process focusing on 1 of the FFA NC model session for each skill would be the way to properly assess the kids not just SSG over 3 days doing the same thing. Seems logical to me considering this is what they would expect us at the grassroots level to be teaching. You would quickly see who is and is not following the NC.

Are you still working at the NSW skill acquisition program SAP?
No I finished about a year ago now.

How long were you at SAP for?
For a year at Football NSW

What was your experience like coaching the under 9's through under-12’s?
I coached eastern zone which covers Canterbury District,, St George district and Eastern Suburbs I had all that area, it’s probably one of the main talent pool areas of Sydney.


The zone-based SAPS (eg: Eastern Zone) only existed in Sydney for one season in 2012. They were replaced by club-based (eg: Sydney Olympic which I think is in the Canterbury District) and association-based (eg: St George + Eastern Suburbs) SAP Programs.

I coached kids in my SAP that I believed if I coached for three/four years they would definitely play for Australia they could also play overseas. But those players having seen them play recently they have not progressed as continuity with the same coaching method does not exist.

I'm pretty sure Katholos was the U11-12 coach back in 2012, so any of his players would not have left to play with another SAP (which finishes at U11s), but probably to play Premier League Youth. So, are his issues with SAP, or with the youth league? How many SAP games has he been to in the past two years, and more importantly, which teams has be been watching?

Listen to me here, it’s not about the qualifications. They make it so it’s about the qualifications. This is not being a school teacher,it's demonstrating skill .

Where is the 40 week program that every coach in Australia follows? Where is the manual so everyone is uniformed to do everything the same in skill teaching?

It's ironic that Katholos refers to the need for good coaches and it not about being a school teacher, because any school student would know that there is nothing worse or less inspiring than a teacher who just teaches from the textbook (or the manual).
Back in 2012, the second edition of the National Curriculum had yet to be released. But it has been around for over a year now. I would have thought that the new curriculum provides more than enough of a blueprint to allow quality coaches to develop and implement a quality SAP program incorporating they key philosophies and structures from the curriculum without the need for coaching from a manual.

I agree that the depth of quality coaches within NSW SAP is a problem. So, the only way coaches can improve is through experience (which takes time) or through professional development. This is probably why they "make it all about the qualifications". I mean not every coach can be “the best technical player Australia has produced in the last 25 years.”

What I do agree with the Katholos interview is that SAP is not elite - there are too many teams and too many players - and that FFA coaching qualifications are far too expensive.

Agree that FFA coaching quals are too expensive.

I'd rather SAP be more widely distributed, given players' peaks and troughs in development.

In rep teams I've coached, the best players at the beginning of the season have sometimes been overtaken by others over the season.

Brian Clough, said he was nothing special at 15 years of age. As a player he had an amazing scoring rate of goals pre game too.

This is one of the biggest whinges I’ve heard in a football article for a long time, starting straight off the bat that I should be ashamed of myself for not knowing who this guy is, well after reading his arrogant and unintelligent responses im not surprised he has been invisible since his playing days.



As a coach, ask yourself whether you would want to coach in such a uniformed coaching environment, where you “teach” exactly and only what is on your piece of paper. For one thing this would require no coaching experience but for another it would limit the creativity of the coach and his own knowledge of his players and their stage of development. This sounds like a Coerver argument, just teaching certain tricks in a closed environment.


Where in this curriculum he was talking about does it say how to improve ball work and where is the ‘uniformed manual’ that he so highly values? Honestly though the difference is that today we have identified objectively the improvements in: 1v1, RWB, SB and FT. Complemented by a system to teach that within a 8 week cycle of 2 weeks for each core skill; and all on the foundation of philosophy the FFA has devised that according to Raymond Verheijen is the most improved youth system he has ever seen.

Well said.

Unfortunately, few critics of the FFA NC, really know what it is.

Katholos obviously didn't want to do the work required, and it requires a lot of planning away from the pitch, to devise training sessions.

:lol:

I wonder if the Kat has seen the NC Version 2 where it contains a yearly training program/Manual?

Although he makes some ok points, I find the article as him having a rant on things rather than being constructive.


Also it's silly to say you don't need a certicate to coach kids, Zidane has been banned in Spain for 3 months without having a licence to coach the youth team for Real Madrid...and this man thinks it's useless to have one. :roll:

Different Topic: Does a F1 Driver say he shouldn't need a licence given his status, it's by the rules and regulation to have a licence in any field no matter who you are.




Edited by Barca4life: 28/10/2014 02:06:29 PM

I think Katholos is symptomatic of an obsolete era in football when good players didn't need accreditation to coach.

Just because students have gone to school, it doesn't mean they can teach.

At least he is honestly making a stance unlike the Blazers who feel the same but hide thier opinions to keep thier jobs

Yes, but what is his stance about? His only issue seems to be that noone is falling over themselves trying to give him the coaching job that he believes he deserves. And he thinks he deserves this, not due to any coaching experience or credentials he holds, but based on his career as a player. He wants a job, and he also wants a manual supplied to him to tell him how to do the job.