its called propaganda.
Ben Roberts is a poster like Uncle Sam saying we want you.

i think its much to with encouraging national service as well as remembering thr ANZACs

The fact you feel cheated wasn't the intention. If that's what's happened I apologise for that but I still think it's important, for future generations, that we get this stuff right or we will make the same mistakes over and over again.

I'm glad we live in an age where if my boys were called up I could say "hang on a minute" rather than ship them out at the first opportunity under false pretences.

you obviously flunked out in history. some of them signed up because they wanted to see the world. they had no idea they were going to run into machine gun barrage. you dont have a clue champ

Cheers for the name calling and the in-depth analysis.

(I fixed up your woeful spelling and grammar too.)

Just a quick question though: Did you believe in the story of Simpson's donkey until tonight? (It's funny what the "average Australian" will believe isn't it?)

I absolutely detests they way ben Roberts smith is always wheeled out for stuff. Great good on him. You know what... he did his job. Not trying to be inconsiderate but i turn off whenever i see our hear him.

Yep, crazy to think that only 100 years ago, ground forces were what war was about... These days, a serious war would wipe out a significant number of people in a very short period of time, without ground force combat.

and how often do they wheel out an ex soldier whos missing an arn
and a leg with post traumatic syndrome saying how great it was to serve this country

its probably more guerilla warfare now...and ethics go straight out the window

Cheers lads, especially those that gave well thought out replies.

I'm off to find some mentos (thanks Russ) and hit the sack.

i find the bullshit propaganda and ugly nationalism much more disrespectful than someone trying to find the truth.

nothing is more offensive to the memories of those futile deaths than the press whoring and right wing co-opting that cant be questioned.

i hear what youre saying, but i sincerely doubt there has ever been much ethics in war. they were that bad that we set out rules in geneva - and since then theyve just kept getting worse.

The "Gallipoli Legacy" is the biggest load of nationalist bullshit this country has ever been subjected to, our entire involvement in WW1 was unnesacary and should be remembered as a shameful waste of life.

Gallipoli was a botched (and pointless) Invasion of Turkey, taking place in a war we had no place being involved in. A war, mind you, that wasn't fought for "our freedoms" or to defend Australia but because the political class decided to pick a side in what was nothing other than a blown up Royal family feud in Europe. Those who peacefully objected here like the Irish immigrants and their decedents who had fuck all interest in fighting under a Butchers Apron in the wake of the Easter Uprising got treated like shit and labelled disloyal traitors.

There was no "forging of the nation" in the Dardanelles, Australia already was building it's identity, independent from the empire, long before the WW1. It wasn't even the most significant battle that Australia was involved in during the Great War. More Australians died in the first few days of the Somme than the entire 8 month Gallipoli Campaign but we don't get stupid TV specials or nationalist bullshite about that.

Even later campaigns like Kokoda and the War in the Pacific don't get as much attention as they deserve, despite being the first time that Australia truly fought to defend itself and it's neighbours from the Japanese Empire.

if im mistaken World War I was started by the assasination of Ferdinand.

Australians need to realise the soldiers were cannon fodder used by the English for their own agenda.
I respect the ANZACs but to say they fought for freedom in Gallopoli is grossly misleading

Edited by Socawho: 24/4/2015 07:57:37 AM

Disrespect the government all you want but the soldiers are the ones who laid down their lives.

You're a disgusting human.

Maybe you can also disrespect the Australian's who died in Africa holding Tobruk and PNG holding off the Japanese if you'd like?

See the world. The vast majority didn't even know what turkey was. They had no idea where they were going. The reasons for the war ate irrelevant for this argument. The fact that people died and suffered is what matters. They may not have done it for our freedoms or whatever but thew fact is they were sent to a horrible situation and fought as hard as they could. That's the fact.

Firstly. Why pick on peoples grammar and spelling that's not the argument and think about the situation. I was typing on my phone whilst suffering severe trigeminal Neuralgia attacks.

The only thing i knew about Simpson and his donkey if that he was a Medic doing his job and he didn't do it for long. I've know that much since i was a child. I don't get where everyone gets these hugely exaggerated stories. I wouldnt care if there were no stories of heroism. The fact that they did it is big enough. It was a massive fuck up by Churchill and many people suffered for it. End of.

Brilliant post but likely to be ignored because it doesn't suit the narrative.

And you are a gullible clown.

The thing is though that for 99% of Australian's this is not about the campaigns themselves. It's about the men who put their hand up in Australians 'time of need' irrespective of what they fought for and how many people died where.

Why do you think some of them lied about their age?

its not like they had a death wish

Really, it's not about the campaign?

You mean the whole "the Gallipoli forged a nation" thing?

Oh.

It was our first 'real' action as a nation.

Great post. The soldiers who perished at Galiipoli should of course be remembered, but the hyped up, flag-sucking nonsense should be dropped for what it is (it won't unfortunately because people are stupid)

Kokoda should be championed over Gallipoli. Australian soldiers were actually defending the lands of our neighbours that, if lost, would have meant great danger for Australia itself. You won't EVER get a politician these days saying that, not since Keating had the balls to tell the truth

This is true.

People died. they didnt want or deserve to. tomorrow we remember them. That simple really.

they kept this lie going for 100 years and everybody here bought it except for the ethnics

doesnt it make you wonder what other lies have been perpetuated upon you and accepted by 'conventional wisdom'?

Look at all the abuse you've copped here Munrubenmuz. Truth is rarely popular and people dont like being told their long held beliefs are bunk.

Let it be a lesson.

Edited by ricecrackers: 24/4/2015 11:14:13 AM

You maybe whole heartedly be correct in terms of gallipoli not being the most important conflict for australians. Actually you are definitely correct. However the day of rememberence was created in the early 1900s before alot of the other conflicts. Today it is supposed to be a commemoration of all conflicts past and present. Yes gallipoli is over represented and maybe it is a little embelished but it is the anniversary of a commemoration that started well before any of us were here. So get off your high horse show a little respect. .. yes you can investigate things that may not be correct but for some people its not about what exactly happened. It's for what people sacrificed (granted for an empire that although we were far from we were still part of and had strong ties to) Misguided or not.

I love it when blokes pull out the "SHOW SOME RESPECT" card. (Russ and Benelsmore are both guilty of this also.)

It generally means they've lost the argument but can't say so.

i agree. But there needs to be a line in the sand drawn about glorifying something that is not. and by that i mean is propaganda like army recruitment ads where they disguise soldiers being used for political means as a means of serving your country. who looks after the vets for the other days apart from the anzac day, when they come back from serving. they suffer massive mental problems and they arent the ones you hear about. no one gives a shit about them when they come back from theatre, and they get swept under the carpet and are forgotten

24th April is Genocide Remembrance Day

the ANZACs did nothing to prevent this despite knowledge of its occurrence and Australia has worked to cover it up ever since.

Now ANZAC day or ANZAC week is used to effectively step on Genocide Remembrance Day thanks to lobbying by Turkey and its influence on the Australian government and its foreign affairs