Ethics classes for primary school children.


Ethics classes for primary school children.

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Benjamin
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Ethics classes? I've just finished a 5 day Facebook argument with some c*nt who is convinced that our ethics are there at birth, placed there by a supreme intelligence without whom there could be no right or wrong.

For the record, I smashed the twat infront of all his online friends, sent him retreating into God-of-the-gaps territory on both the moral and cosmological arguments. Not totally relevant to this discussion, but I had to mention it somewhere.
Condemned666
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Benjamin wrote:
Ethics classes? I've just finished a 5 day Facebook argument with some c*nt who is convinced that our ethics are there at birth, placed there by a supreme intelligence without whom there could be no right or wrong.

For the record, I smashed the twat infront of all his online friends, sent him retreating into God-of-the-gaps territory on both the moral and cosmological arguments. Not totally relevant to this discussion, but I had to mention it somewhere.


Ultimately, if we want ethics, its somewhere between the world of Alex in A Clockwork Orange and Itchy and Scratchy's Porch Pals :-({|=
Glenn - A-league Mad
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The real crime here is not religion vs non-religion. It is hiding the options to favor another.

As stupid as it sounds people who do not go to church or do anything related to religion still identify themselves with a religion.
My own wife does this. She will tell me she is not a religious person, but will put down catholic on forms ect... why? because her parents taught her.

The churches know this, so by removing ethics as an option and just nameing a religion they know they will cappture a big new batch of kids to train, and when the parent finds out they will probably not bother pulling the kids out in most cases as they identify with said religion.

It is all super underhanded.
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433 wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
Condemned666 wrote:
ethics classes? Ethics classes?

How about some of our politicians (those who we follow, the ones that are meant to set an example) behave in a more exemplifying manner before we start talking about ethics classes


They're all christians. No surprises why they're such useless c*nts in that respect.


:lol: Give it a rest mate.





:lol: Sorry i'll step back with my truth bombs.
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Glenn - A-league Mad wrote:
The real crime here is not religion vs non-religion. It is hiding the options to favor another.

As stupid as it sounds people who do not go to church or do anything related to religion still identify themselves with a religion.
My own wife does this. She will tell me she is not a religious person, but will put down catholic on forms ect... why? because her parents taught her.

The churches know this, so by removing ethics as an option and just nameing a religion they know they will cappture a big new batch of kids to train, and when the parent finds out they will probably not bother pulling the kids out in most cases as they identify with said religion.

It is all super underhanded.


It's called indoctrination and it's as horrific as fascism :)
Eastern Glory
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benelsmore wrote:
433 wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
Condemned666 wrote:
ethics classes? Ethics classes?

How about some of our politicians (those who we follow, the ones that are meant to set an example) behave in a more exemplifying manner before we start talking about ethics classes


They're all christians. No surprises why they're such useless c*nts in that respect.


:lol: Give it a rest mate.





:lol: Sorry i'll step back with my truth bombs.

Yes. Because thoughout history, Christians have truely proven themselves to be useless cnuts :lol:

Far out Christian bashers are cringeworthy.

Edited by eastern glory: 12/6/2015 03:12:03 PM

Edited by eastern glory: 12/6/2015 03:27:15 PM
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Notwithstanding the fact that SRE (not comparative religious studies) should be nowhere near a secular public school they must be fairly worried if they're lobbying and running a campaign behind the scenes such as this to hide ethics away from parents.

If they're fair minded, and obviously they're not, then what exactly is the problem?




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Glenn - A-league Mad wrote:
The real crime here is not religion vs non-religion. It is hiding the options to favor another.

As stupid as it sounds people who do not go to church or do anything related to religion still identify themselves with a religion.
My own wife does this. She will tell me she is not a religious person, but will put down catholic on forms ect... why? because her parents taught her.

The churches know this, so by removing ethics as an option and just nameing a religion they know they will cappture a big new batch of kids to train, and when the parent finds out they will probably not bother pulling the kids out in most cases as they identify with said religion.

It is all super underhanded.

Do you find your wife does things that are "catholic" that you don't agree with (apart of course from writing down that she's Catholic on forms)?

Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here

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Eastern Glory wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
433 wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
Condemned666 wrote:
ethics classes? Ethics classes?

How about some of our politicians (those who we follow, the ones that are meant to set an example) behave in a more exemplifying manner before we start talking about ethics classes


They're all christians. No surprises why they're such useless c*nts in that respect.


:lol: Give it a rest mate.





:lol: Sorry i'll step back with my truth bombs.

Yes. Because thoughout history, Christians have truely proven themselves to be useless cnuts :lol:

Far out Christian bashers are cringeworthy.


In terms of being responsible leaders their track record is hopeless. They used to kill anyone who either made them look bad or challenged them. Given the poverty of the middle ages and the absolute luxury of the Vatican, I'm actually surprised people don't make a big deal. Then again trawling up the violent history of the church is flogging a dead horse. We know they were terrible people.

Christianity as a belief system hides behind God and a few pillars of their religion to justify hatred and exclusivity. It's actually hilarious. I don't have a problem with Christians themselves unless they're at my door trying to recruit me, but the church itself is one of the most damaging organizations in history.

What is cringeworthy is anyone who in this day and age is stupid enough to stand behind the church and its struggle to enforce its draconian beliefs on its followers and thus society as a whole.
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Munrubenmuz wrote:
Notwithstanding the fact that SRE (not comparative religious studies) should be nowhere near a secular public school they must be fairly worried if they're lobbying and running a campaign behind the scenes such as this to hide ethics away from parents.

If they're fair minded, and obviously they're not, then what exactly is the problem?



If religious teachings in public schools were comparative i'd be ok with it. If religion must be broached as a subject, it must be neutral.

I never once had a Iman or a Kohanim/Rabbi come to my school.
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benelsmore wrote:
Munrubenmuz wrote:
Notwithstanding the fact that SRE (not comparative religious studies) should be nowhere near a secular public school they must be fairly worried if they're lobbying and running a campaign behind the scenes such as this to hide ethics away from parents.

If they're fair minded, and obviously they're not, then what exactly is the problem?



If religious teachings in public schools were comparative i'd be ok with it. If religion must be broached as a subject, it must be neutral.

I never once had a Iman or a Kohanim/Rabbi come to my school.


And if they wanted to, or did, it'd be all over ACA and the Bolt Report with Alan Jones and Ray Hadley screaming from the rooftops.

It's only OK to indoctrinate kids with one set of fairy tales.


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Eastern Glory
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benelsmore wrote:
Munrubenmuz wrote:
Notwithstanding the fact that SRE (not comparative religious studies) should be nowhere near a secular public school they must be fairly worried if they're lobbying and running a campaign behind the scenes such as this to hide ethics away from parents.

If they're fair minded, and obviously they're not, then what exactly is the problem?



If religious teachings in public schools were comparative i'd be ok with it. If religion must be broached as a subject, it must be neutral.

I never once had a Iman or a Kohanim/Rabbi come to my school.

They had every opportunity to. The Sydney Scripture Union is just far more organised.
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benelsmore wrote:
Eastern Glory wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
433 wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
Condemned666 wrote:
ethics classes? Ethics classes?

How about some of our politicians (those who we follow, the ones that are meant to set an example) behave in a more exemplifying manner before we start talking about ethics classes


They're all christians. No surprises why they're such useless c*nts in that respect.


:lol: Give it a rest mate.





:lol: Sorry i'll step back with my truth bombs.

Yes. Because thoughout history, Christians have truely proven themselves to be useless cnuts :lol:

Far out Christian bashers are cringeworthy.


In terms of being responsible leaders their track record is hopeless. They used to kill anyone who either made them look bad or challenged them. Given the poverty of the middle ages and the absolute luxury of the Vatican, I'm actually surprised people don't make a big deal. Then again trawling up the violent history of the church is flogging a dead horse. We know they were terrible people.

Christianity as a belief system hides behind God and a few pillars of their religion to justify hatred and exclusivity. It's actually hilarious. I don't have a problem with Christians themselves unless they're at my door trying to recruit me, but the church itself is one of the most damaging organizations in history.

What is cringeworthy is anyone who in this day and age is stupid enough to stand behind the church and its struggle to enforce its draconian beliefs on its followers and thus society as a whole.

First paragraph I have no issue with, although they were non-evangelicals and Catholics.

Please don't try and say what the Christian belief system and is and what it does. You know nothing about it, as you continually prove.
The church has its flaws, but that because it's a mass of humans. Like fifa for example...
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I'm not a Chrisitan, and I don't stand behind the church. I just don't put up with clowns attacking Christianity and the church when they know SFA about it, and are blinded by some irrational and ignorant hatred.
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Eastern Glory wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
Eastern Glory wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
433 wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
Condemned666 wrote:
ethics classes? Ethics classes?

How about some of our politicians (those who we follow, the ones that are meant to set an example) behave in a more exemplifying manner before we start talking about ethics classes


They're all christians. No surprises why they're such useless c*nts in that respect.


:lol: Give it a rest mate.





:lol: Sorry i'll step back with my truth bombs.

Yes. Because thoughout history, Christians have truely proven themselves to be useless cnuts :lol:

Far out Christian bashers are cringeworthy.


In terms of being responsible leaders their track record is hopeless. They used to kill anyone who either made them look bad or challenged them. Given the poverty of the middle ages and the absolute luxury of the Vatican, I'm actually surprised people don't make a big deal. Then again trawling up the violent history of the church is flogging a dead horse. We know they were terrible people.

Christianity as a belief system hides behind God and a few pillars of their religion to justify hatred and exclusivity. It's actually hilarious. I don't have a problem with Christians themselves unless they're at my door trying to recruit me, but the church itself is one of the most damaging organizations in history.

What is cringeworthy is anyone who in this day and age is stupid enough to stand behind the church and its struggle to enforce its draconian beliefs on its followers and thus society as a whole.

First paragraph I have no issue with, although they were non-evangelicals and Catholics.

Please don't try and say what the Christian belief system and is and what it does. You know nothing about it, as you continually prove.
The church has its flaws, but that because it's a mass of humans. Like fifa for example...


Well is it not true that christianity cherry picks what is and is not adhered to?

I can find a lot of non-human problems with the bible and the dogma of the church. I know adherents get all whiney when their faith is criticised but the big three have a lot to answer for.
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Eastern Glory wrote:
I'm not a Chrisitan, and I don't stand behind the church. I just don't put up with clowns attacking Christianity and the church when they know SFA about it, and are blinded by some irrational and ignorant hatred.


I know plenty about it :) You just don't want to hear the criticism.
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Quality thread lads
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what would jesus do?
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Condemned666 wrote:
what would jesus do?


Walk on water while simultaneously turning it into wine and raising people from the dead.

Well, at least that's what I would do. The White Walkers would have nothing on me.
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Eastern Glory wrote:
It just doesn't happen mate :lol:
You're either lying, or choosing to hear things incorrectly.
I'd say that 99.99% of Christians are very, very, very okay with admitting that the earth is millions/billions of years old.


I agree with EG, I went to a Catholic secondary school and none of this shit was ever an issue.
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benelsmore wrote:
Eastern Glory wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
Eastern Glory wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
433 wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
Condemned666 wrote:
ethics classes? Ethics classes?

How about some of our politicians (those who we follow, the ones that are meant to set an example) behave in a more exemplifying manner before we start talking about ethics classes


They're all christians. No surprises why they're such useless c*nts in that respect.


:lol: Give it a rest mate.





:lol: Sorry i'll step back with my truth bombs.

Yes. Because thoughout history, Christians have truely proven themselves to be useless cnuts :lol:

Far out Christian bashers are cringeworthy.


In terms of being responsible leaders their track record is hopeless. They used to kill anyone who either made them look bad or challenged them. Given the poverty of the middle ages and the absolute luxury of the Vatican, I'm actually surprised people don't make a big deal. Then again trawling up the violent history of the church is flogging a dead horse. We know they were terrible people.

Christianity as a belief system hides behind God and a few pillars of their religion to justify hatred and exclusivity. It's actually hilarious. I don't have a problem with Christians themselves unless they're at my door trying to recruit me, but the church itself is one of the most damaging organizations in history.

What is cringeworthy is anyone who in this day and age is stupid enough to stand behind the church and its struggle to enforce its draconian beliefs on its followers and thus society as a whole.

First paragraph I have no issue with, although they were non-evangelicals and Catholics.

Please don't try and say what the Christian belief system and is and what it does. You know nothing about it, as you continually prove.
The church has its flaws, but that because it's a mass of humans. Like fifa for example...


Well is it not true that christianity cherry picks what is and is not adhered to?

I can find a lot of non-human problems with the bible and the dogma of the church. I know adherents get all whiney when their faith is criticised but the big three have a lot to answer for.

It's only cherry picking if you don't understand it.
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Fredsta wrote:
Eastern Glory wrote:
It just doesn't happen mate :lol:
You're either lying, or choosing to hear things incorrectly.
I'd say that 99.99% of Christians are very, very, very okay with admitting that the earth is millions/billions of years old.


I agree with EG, I went to a Catholic secondary school and none of this shit was ever an issue.


As did I.

This is nothing like a Study of Religion class you might've done in year eleven with a teacher who had been to uni, knew how to talk to/engage a classroom of children and was following an approved course outline.

It's about a primary school children being told to sit still at their desk while a volunteer with no formal training tells them the earth is thousands of years old, that the bible stories they tell are true because it says so in the bible, etc. There is no discussion or interaction except for a couple of token questions at the end, it's just a lecture.

I just don't understand why you or anyone else are willing to stick your heads in the sand over this. If more parents looked into what their kids were told in these sessions I guarantee that there'd be 80-90% opt-out rates.
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I'm not sure why they don't believe you Karta. Bloody oath it happens. The evangelicals are at my kid's primary school but fortunately they run ethics classes so they're not exposed.

The lunatic's at my kids previous school were the happy clappy types and even worse.



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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-05/sparrow-scripture-lessons-by-stealth/6525006

Various comments on the article.
-----------------------------------//---------------------

I recently sat in on a lesson about addiction, given to students by a religious practitioner - apparently addicts are sinners, and only God can cure them - nothing about dopamine, social pressures, personal and medical issues, etc.

I have my reservations about school based religious instruction. Despite my ticking what I thought was the opt out box my son came home to tell me that the "old lady" had told him that creation was the truth and evolution was a lie made up by bad scientists who didn't know any better. I gave him what I thought was a balanced assessment and explained about Darwins theory and the Genesis story then stated why I believed in evolution. He returned the following week very upset to tell me that I was going to burn in Hell and no one could save me. So much for open discussion.

The religious education is not education though, it's instruction. It's not about the faith, it's how to be of the faith. And it absolutely isn't provided by a variety of religions. It is primarily preached by evangelist churches who see public schools as a mission field. It's all in the Access Ministry and Scripture Union handbooks.

http://www.news.com.au/national/parent-lobby-group-alleges-religious-education-material-taught-in-nsw-schools-includes-slut-shaming/story-fncynjr2-1227338650559

Excerpt:
-----------------------------------//-----------------------
She said there is “no way of knowing” how many students are being introduced to the material because religious education is not regulated.

“The Education Department does admit that they don’t keep an eye on this at all,” Ms Wood said.

The Department of Education is reviewing Special Religious Education classes.

“We feel it’s part of the problem. [size=6]Schools aren’t required to supervise classes or material (and) it’s allowed fundamentalists get a hold of the program.”[/size]

Fairfax media reports a sample lesson from provider Seed: SRE claims women make mistakes including “talking too much” and giving in sexually and men make mistakes including “letting their bodies rule and lacking courage”.

--------------------------------//-----------------------------------

An older story but relevant.

https://thatsmyphilosophy.wordpress.com/2012/07/23/what-really-happens-in-your-childs-scripture-class-and-beyond/

Other links:

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/02/21/comment-we-dont-need-scripture-public-schools

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/primary-school-principals-shut-down-religious-education-classes-20140216-32ty8.html

St Kilda mother Mel Mackintosh only realised halfway through 2013 that her daughter received religious instruction for 18 months, after a similar error.

“My daughter has been told many times that God created her and the world and all that’s in it,” she said.

“This wasn’t taught as a Christian idea or belief, but as a fact.”


School prayer at public school.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/child-removed-from-nsw-public-school-after-prayer-vote-20140322-35a2j.html

Edited by MUNRUBENMUZ: 13/6/2015 10:18:12 PM


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Whats the big deal about this?? My wife grew up in germany and went to public school and yet had r.e classes as a standard I school. I get some people are offended by religon and what they believe in as a encroachment in their lives but fuck sake you dont have to rant and rave like a madman
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MvFCArsenal16.8 wrote:

Whats the big deal about this?? My wife grew up in germany and went to public school and yet had r.e classes as a standard I school. I get some people are offended by religon and what they believe in as a encroachment in their lives but fuck sake you dont have to rant and rave like a madman


Did you not read the OP?

They are trying to hide an alternative to scripture. It is a big deal.

Fundamentalist christian volunteers should be no where near a public school.

The links provided are examples of the type of behaviour that some are saying doesn't go on. Clearly it does.

Religious (comparative) education is fine. Scripture at a secular public schools is not.





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mcjules
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karta wrote:
Fredsta wrote:
Eastern Glory wrote:
It just doesn't happen mate :lol:
You're either lying, or choosing to hear things incorrectly.
I'd say that 99.99% of Christians are very, very, very okay with admitting that the earth is millions/billions of years old.


I agree with EG, I went to a Catholic secondary school and none of this shit was ever an issue.


As did I.

This is nothing like a Study of Religion class you might've done in year eleven with a teacher who had been to uni, knew how to talk to/engage a classroom of children and was following an approved course outline.

It's about a primary school children being told to sit still at their desk while a volunteer with no formal training tells them the earth is thousands of years old, that the bible stories they tell are true because it says so in the bible, etc. There is no discussion or interaction except for a couple of token questions at the end, it's just a lecture.

I just don't understand why you or anyone else are willing to stick your heads in the sand over this. If more parents looked into what their kids were told in these sessions I guarantee that there'd be 80-90% opt-out rates.

I don't think Fredsta was. Even EG was simply trying to point out that the most common christian denominations (e.g. the Anglicans and the Catholics) don't preach the genesis story as fact.

As one of those "catholics" that Glenn dislikes, I've enrolled my kids into catholic school but I don't think religious education has any place in public schools beyond a pretty high level study of theology.

Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here

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Hell I went to a public school in my then area I lived in and I had a bloody a bikie for jesus come and speak to us. Religion isnt the problem its the nuffs nuffs who over preach that are the problem or the other problem is the few who just hate religoon and cant come up with a valid reason why they hate religion without coming out with the bog standard sayings
Glenn - A-league Mad
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mcjules wrote:
Glenn - A-league Mad wrote:
The real crime here is not religion vs non-religion. It is hiding the options to favor another.

As stupid as it sounds people who do not go to church or do anything related to religion still identify themselves with a religion.
My own wife does this. She will tell me she is not a religious person, but will put down catholic on forms ect... why? because her parents taught her.

The churches know this, so by removing ethics as an option and just nameing a religion they know they will cappture a big new batch of kids to train, and when the parent finds out they will probably not bother pulling the kids out in most cases as they identify with said religion.

It is all super underhanded.

Do you find your wife does things that are "catholic" that you don't agree with (apart of course from writing down that she's Catholic on forms)?


No. She really does nothing in any religious form in any aspect of her daily life. I find it quite strange, but therein lies the problem. She would tick catholic on a form for our 2 kids if that was the option given.
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Eastern Glory wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
Eastern Glory wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
Eastern Glory wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
433 wrote:
benelsmore wrote:
Condemned666 wrote:
ethics classes? Ethics classes?

How about some of our politicians (those who we follow, the ones that are meant to set an example) behave in a more exemplifying manner before we start talking about ethics classes


They're all christians. No surprises why they're such useless c*nts in that respect.


:lol: Give it a rest mate.





:lol: Sorry i'll step back with my truth bombs.

Yes. Because thoughout history, Christians have truely proven themselves to be useless cnuts :lol:

Far out Christian bashers are cringeworthy.


In terms of being responsible leaders their track record is hopeless. They used to kill anyone who either made them look bad or challenged them. Given the poverty of the middle ages and the absolute luxury of the Vatican, I'm actually surprised people don't make a big deal. Then again trawling up the violent history of the church is flogging a dead horse. We know they were terrible people.

Christianity as a belief system hides behind God and a few pillars of their religion to justify hatred and exclusivity. It's actually hilarious. I don't have a problem with Christians themselves unless they're at my door trying to recruit me, but the church itself is one of the most damaging organizations in history.

What is cringeworthy is anyone who in this day and age is stupid enough to stand behind the church and its struggle to enforce its draconian beliefs on its followers and thus society as a whole.

First paragraph I have no issue with, although they were non-evangelicals and Catholics.

Please don't try and say what the Christian belief system and is and what it does. You know nothing about it, as you continually prove.
The church has its flaws, but that because it's a mass of humans. Like fifa for example...


Well is it not true that christianity cherry picks what is and is not adhered to?

I can find a lot of non-human problems with the bible and the dogma of the church. I know adherents get all whiney when their faith is criticised but the big three have a lot to answer for.

It's only cherry picking if you don't understand it.


No you understand what you're told to understand. You are told by religious 'teachers' what is literal and what is not. The interpretations change to suit the times. I mean shit, why the hell can't I own a slave these days? The bible O.K's it.
GO


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