If I am honest this has been the case for awhile. Need to develop oneself in the holy trin.

Have many younger players that have come through the academy's in Belgium and Holland actually progressed. I agree that they are good for players heading over from the A League but I can't think of many youth players that came through the ranks there. Germany on the other hand does seem to be a good option for Australians youngsters.

The real influx of players into youth systems in europe has happened in the last few years so I guess we will wait and see in a few years.

Asian Champions North Korea, who knocked us out in the Semi Final of the Asian Cup last year have lost their opening game 0-2 against Russia who reached the semi final of the Under 17 European Championships.

when do we play next?

To be fair this kind of idea has kind of happened and used before, in 2011 the FFA organised a camp for players under 21 and the likes of Luongo, Inman were in that camp.

in 2013 the young socceroos had a camp for the european lads in the UK.

So this concept is not new.

My opinion differs a bit from a fair few people on this forum. I'm not one for getting rid of the CoE, I think it fills a role and overall it does a good job in producing players for the country. I know people complain about it but I think overall it's been a success and people might be getting ahead of themselves. As switters said we're only 6-7 years into our new program where as the best nations have been going for a long time and even the Germans had to wait 10 years before they really started to see their new system bear fruit. For those of us who have seen the rep teams over the last few years there really is a noticeable improvement in the quality of our teams.



Clairfontaine and the French System is a bit different to ours and I think where the real key difference lies. Clairfontaine isn't a centralised national academy like the CoE, its one of many and only serves the ile de France Province (the province that Paris is in). All the other Provinces have an academy just like it for their region. It's a lot like the NTC system and probably one of the templates when we developed ours. The thing is they don't have a national one like the CoE.

the biggest difference though is the fact the academy system in France including Clairfontaine is only for kids aged 13-16. Intake is at 13 and continues for three years. The workload is also pretty big: they train sunday through friday and play for their club on saturday. So they grab them a lot earlier than we do and finish up basically when we are starting. They are also focused on being purely an academy and not a centralised system of identification. This is kinda where I think we are going wrong.

I think the National NTC can be an important part of what we do, just like the state NTCs. The Canberra NTC can act much like Clairfontaine and be the theoretical and practical driver of the style of australian football development, it could even function as the top academy for the best of the best, but it has to start earlier and has to be separated from the National teams. 15-17 is just too late, it's pretty widely accepted that the majority of development happens before 16, even we have accepted it in our National Curriculum, so there really isn't any point having an academy that only starts grabbing kids at this age. If we do also get a central training centre in sydney i'd like to see the youth teams be run out of there while the CoE stays in Canberra, with different coaching groups for both.

Germany 4 Australia 1. That's all you need to know despite the evasion of reality & protection of the mango that exists at the upper echelon of Australian football & it's respective suckhole minions.

Germany 4 Australia 1. For those in the world who still believe that results matter. There aren't many of those left in the scam that is currently Australian youth football.

What an absolute unmitigated disgrace.

0/10.

You need to try harder.

Wasn't trying at all you suckhole apologist.

Germany 4 Australia 1.

Feel some embarassment & feel some desire for improvement for Australian football instead of avoiding the issue.

Another mango sucking disgrace of a human being right here.

Thats a little better. Still shit though.

Yes I agree, such an unmitigated disaster that Australia would be soundly beaten in a tournament by perhaps the world's greatest football nation.

"disgrace of a human being". :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't get it. Why mangoes?

Old reference from TWGF...when over-he-hill footballers and shoddy dutch coaches would come out here and apparently 'suck the juicy mango'...it's a euphemism for sucking money out of aus football while promising the world.

technically they still do bro :cool:

No doubt.

You are correct it was done in the past but hasn't been done for almost 3 years?... Why. And especially why since Craig Moore has left his liaison role 10 months ago. And it's been done by okon for the young soccoroos, so credit to him for that

Edited by robbo: 20/10/2015 09:34:55 PM

I'm not suggesting that exactly. I was thinking along the same lines as u4486662, except he put it better. So, recently, the Joeys had camp and played a series of matches in France. There's no reason why the lads based in Belgium, Italy, Germany, England, etc. couldn't have been involved in that camp. Then, no need for them to fly back to Australia, they can just be flown straight from the country in which they're based (Belgium, for example) and flown to Chile.

This would not be more expensive than flying dozens of Centre of Excellence lads (and almost as many staff) from Australia to France and back to Australia and then to Chile and back to Australia.

But, in essence, I agree with u4486662's point. They should have a couple of camps a year in Europe (say in the UK) and get the ones from Belgium, Germany, Italy, etc. there.

I also agree with Robbo that they need to stop full time positions for AIS scholarship holders (and maybe stop playing in the Canberra Premier League).

It has become stagnant, there's no competition, it builds complacency and it locks out other (potentially better) players. Plus they develop at different rates.

And boy do they need to cut down on the staff. It's ridiculous. So much money is wasted. If this was a business, there'd be outcry about the unmitigated inefficiency.

I think Holy Trinity is the best place to develop between the age of about 13 and 18. After that they should be finished. So merely going to the Holy Trinity around twenty isn't good enough. It's too little, too late often.

But yep Holy Trinity.

As for England, yes certain clubs do a better job than others. But I think we have gotten to the point of denigrating it cheaply.

Look at what Benjamin says. The English youth system has improved a lot in recent years and they're doing better in youth tournaments. From what I've seen of them, they're playing much better than previously. I'm not sure the Aussie-based players are at that level. Look at Mass Luongo. Product of the English system. Significantly better than just about every Aussie player except Rogic (who's a freakshow).

Good, informed and informative post.

What about not abolishing the CoE outright. But, as Robbo suggests, making it based on a number of camps each year. What about making it so that players can be dropped more easily and more new players can enter the CofE. What about decentralising it a bit more, like the French system seems to be. What about making them start at 13, like in France?

Of course, I think, in order for this to be feasible, we need the A-League clubs to have academies from the age of about u9s. And we need a second tier at senior level.

How about doing a bit of both? The new A League youth academies can start at 17, all of their coaches must be FFA qualified so they don't revert to teaching them to play like Vinnie Jones, and have quarterly camps at CoEs for masterclassing/talent spotting/quality control. Having the A League clubs involved provides a pathway, mentoring etc. the CoE could then refocus on 13-16 age. Overseas players need to be regularly monitored to make sure they are developing Angeball skills. No point producing another LB who defends solidly but stops at the centre line and who can't overlap or cross....

We have a long way to go in our football evolution really. Why people expect to see us beating a top nation like Germany makes me laugh.

Only time will tell if the investments made today will pay off but to get a whole team of stars at this stage is too much to ask.

Edited by heart_fan: 20/10/2015 11:43:05 PM

Korea defeated Brazil, so anything is possible :d

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2015/10/20/amini-alert-postecoglou-opens-door-next-generation

Ange at the Korea matches. Seems like he is overseeing the two Vidmars and Okon.

They also play 2 more friendlies against Iraq and Qatar in Dubai next month.

I know somewhere in this this thread is the time for tomorrow mornings game, but if anyone could save me searching the whole thing, I'd appreciate it

EDIT - forget it, wiki tells me it's one hour later than Mondays game

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_FIFA_U-17_World_Cup#Schedule_and_draw

Edited by eldorado: 21/10/2015 07:44:03 PM

And we're away.

Mexico swarming Oz whenever they have the ball.

We need to hold on to possession more. There are positive signs going forward but the Mexicans are all over us like a fat kid on chocolate.

That was a lot better, some positives for sure, Mexico threw the kitchen sink at the joey's and they prevailed.
The speed of decisions needs to be quicker, but I hope the Mexicans will tire earlier from all their pressing.
I like the look of the victory kid on the left, he has been allright.
Maybe we need to set up more friendlies for the young guys, similar to the Matildas, to get exsposure to higherquality/quicker in thought and speed competition than they do at the moment?
But it's been an improvement so far.

Edited by moops: 22/10/2015 07:56:00 AM

I wish the Oi Oi Oi would die.

From football fans too who you'd think are basically parents.

Please stop already.

Mexico have used up a massive amount of energy in Ball Possession Opposition and Defensive Transitions. Their pressing and squeezing has been impressive, putting Oz under great pressure in limited time and space. What often happens is that teams doing this run out of gas at the 60 minute mark at senior level.

However, the Oz defensive organisation in midfield has been poor. The midfielders' work rate and defensive intensity is low. They are also not reading the game well enough in the turnovers of possession - our defensive transitions.

It looks as though Mexico are a lot fitter , quicker, and even worse, they re winning 1v1 muscle contests. Rimmer ( one of the few players I recognise) has been bustled off the ball and lost 50/50 tackles.

I like Rowles' muscular defensive work, but he has been outpaced out wide.

The number 11 for Vicitopry looks excellent on the ball. There have also been some encourage ing episodes of play in possession, but under the Mexicans' defensive intensity in BPO, a player makes a bad decision at what appears to be a tempo of play they are uncomfortable with.

For those that are cortical of the way we are playing, compare this game to the awful Glory team last night, coached by Kenny Lowe to play football dross.

Heresy on page 100.