♔ ♕ ♚ ♛ Australia U17/U20/U23 National Team Tournaments & Discussion Thread ♔ ♕ ♚ ♛


♔ ♕ ♚ ♛ Australia U17/U20/U23 National Team Tournaments & Discussion...

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Barca4Life
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JDB03 wrote:
One would think that you cant coach/teach creativity, this is in grown at a young age in the back yard and the streets. But I would have to agree that coaches then try and remove this from the youth and turn them into robots. I have notice a slight change in the mine set of some coaches at junior level which is a start.


They try to remove the creativity and expression in favor of getting the players to play the style but this is done too early and often, it seems Abrams wants to change it put more emphasis on the player which is the right thing to do.

This was Han Berger's legacy, why would 11v11 start at age 12? so they focus on getting the players to focus on a structure but it seems its too early and stifles the players individual development.

This should happen by they turn 15/16 max.

I guess we learn something new every day. :roll:
Edited
9 Years Ago by Barca4Life
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Redcarded wrote:
Ollyroos should be a proving ground for Senior team selection. As such it should be playing attacking proactive Ange ball, NOT safety first possession only incisive as wet cardboard Vid ball... It should be selected like the senior team, based on performance not on whether you were in the previous team.........


You didnt watch any of the games did you :)
Edited
9 Years Ago by trident
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oh my god, what happened ..

Vidmar you are absolutely shit house mate. Fuck off from any NT squads please

Worst coach in the fucking solar system.. even with that new massive planet being found etc

All your games were massive experiments and ganble's kient , even this forums reg's have dissected areas you fucked up majorly in. Playing players w/ zero form or game time is just not what any thinking coach would do.

Please hand in your resignation


Edited
9 Years Ago by highkick05
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highkick05 wrote:
oh my god, what happened ..

Vidmar you are absolutely shit house mate. Fuck off from any NT squads please

Worst coach in the fucking solar system.. even with that new massive planet being found etc

All your games were massive experiments and ganble's kient , even this forums reg's have dissected areas you fucked up majorly in. Playing players w/ zero form or game time is just not what any thinking coach would do.

Please hand in your resignation


Vidmar out then.


Edited
9 Years Ago by TheSelectFew
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From an Olympic perspective we have never recovered from the team selection for Beijing in 2008. We were red hot for Bronze medal that year. The controversial decision by Arnold to leave out Burns, Djite and also Vidosic raged on these forums for weeks and was huge media news.

Djite had 2 weeks earlier made his debut for the Socceroos and him and Neymar Burns powered Adelaide United run to the very top of the ACL that season destroying teams. Its been down hill for 8 years.
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9 Years Ago by AEK Spartan
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AEK Spartan wrote:
From an Olympic perspective we have never recovered from the team selection for Beijing in 2008. We were red hot for Bronze medal that year. The controversial decision by Arnold to leave out Burns, Djite and also Vidosic raged on these forums for weeks and was huge media news.

Djite had 2 weeks earlier made his debut for the Socceroos and him and Neymar Burns powered Adelaide United run to the very top of the ACL that season destroying teams. Its been down hill for 8 years.


:)
Edited
9 Years Ago by trident
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We aren't in Oceania anymore.
We won't get easy qualifiers or sympathetic refs.


Edited
9 Years Ago by scott21
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At least I can support Fiji at the olympics

Edited
9 Years Ago by apillay12
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Does FFA lose out of this ? The Oly's havn't qualified for much at all recently hey ?

Would be good to see our players developed individually and then given a certain degree of freedom. Right now they don't have either it seems


Edited
9 Years Ago by highkick05
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highkick05 wrote:
Does FFA lose out of this ? The Oly's havn't qualified for much at all recently hey ?

Would be good to see our players developed individually and then given a certain degree of freedom. Right now they don't have either it seems


Its much better to play in Asia and have an easier route to the World Cup than play in Oceania and have an easy run to Olympics and Confederations Cup.
Edited
9 Years Ago by scott21
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TheSelectFew wrote:
highkick05 wrote:
oh my god, what happened ..

Vidmar you are absolutely shit house mate. Fuck off from any NT squads please

Worst coach in the fucking solar system.. even with that new massive planet being found etc

All your games were massive experiments and ganble's kient , even this forums reg's have dissected areas you fucked up majorly in. Playing players w/ zero form or game time is just not what any thinking coach would do.

Please hand in your resignation


Vidmar out then.


makes frank farina look good
Edited
9 Years Ago by HeyItsRobbie
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Farina, Okon, Vidmar, Verslaijan

have I missed anyone? all following the NC

these superstar aussie players have been sold short every time?
Edited
9 Years Ago by trident
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Vidmar had great success with AU in the ACL playing structured defence and counter attacking football. They also had a lot of luck.

The game in issue in these games was players like Antonis, Mauk, Borrello, Brillante, Hoole, playing worse and panicking whilst on the ball compared to playing with experienced teammates at senior level.

Gersbach demonstrated poor decision-making and lack of game sense, plus mediocre 1v1 defending.

Geria was less composed on the ball than he is in the HAL too.

Edwards and Amini, like most of the other attackers lacked creativity.

There was also a massive weakness in 1v1 attacking skills. Other than Antonis and Hoole, rarely did attacking players beat players 1v1 in attacking positions in the attacking third even when receiving facing forwards. In a slightly older age group, Rogic, Burns and Mooy, and even Anthony Caceres, have this capacity to deliver in tight spaces.

I can remember some vociferous debates between Stefcep and SFC supporters debating whether Antonis or Mooy was the better player. Look at the current difference between one playing a lot of football in the last year and the other one playing little.

O'Neill was easily the best player playing further forwards of the defensive line.

Brillante was decent playing as a DM and RB for the Socceroos, but as an attacking midfielder he came up short. h ehas gown backwards Italy.

Amini's defensive capabilities are poor.


McLaren was good, but the attacking interplay in the attacking half broke down against well structured defences so he was starved of service. The belief in FFA is that we are still technically inferior to most Asian nations, but tactically superior. The UAE and Jordan played better structured defences against us than in the past.

As a coach coaching attacking interplay, Vidmar has not delivered.

His poor selections in the first game, meant Australia were under pressure in the last, also they played with little confidence. Playing Galloway, Galifuoco, Brillante, and Pain contributed the loss, as none have been playing recent regular football. Donachie improved as the tournament progressed.

One saving grace is that there are at least three teams that Australia could could put out of similar equality under the age of 23.

For all the discussion of the European players missing, it is only players who would boost the Oz attack that would have made a difference.

McLaren's comment about the team playing together for years was pertinent. Even thought they may have developed as a team unit, others outside have made more recent progress.




Edited by Decentric: 22/1/2016 07:53:33 AM
Edited
9 Years Ago by Decentric
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Decentric wrote:
Vidmar had great success with AU in the ACL playing structured defence and counter attacking football. They also had a lot of luck.

The game in issue in these games was players like Antonis, Mauk, Borrello, Brillante, Hoole, playing worse and panicking whilst on the ball compared to playing with experienced teammates at senior level.

Gersbach demonstrated poor decision-making and lack of game sense, plus mediocre 1v1 defending.

Geria was less composed on the ball than he is in the HAL too.

Edwards and Amini, like most of the other attackers lacked creativity.

There was also a massive weakness in 1v1 attacking skills. Other than Antonis and Hoole, rarely did attacking players beat players 1v1 in attacking positions in the attacking third even when receiving facing forwards. In a slightly older age group, Rogic, Burns and Mooy, and even Anthony Caceres, have this capacity to deliver in tight spaces.

I can remember some vociferous debates between Stefcep and SFC supporters debating whether Antonis or Mooy was the better player. Look at the current difference between one playing a lot of football in the last year and the other one playing little.

O'Neill was easily the best player playing further forwards of the defensive line.

Brillante was decent playing as a DM and RB for the Socceroos, but as an attacking midfielder he came up short. h ehas gown backwards Italy.

Amini's defensive capabilities are poor.


McLaren was good, but the attacking interplay in the attacking half broke down against well structured defences so he was starved of service. The belief in FFA is that we are still technically inferior to most Asian nations, but tactically superior. The UAE and Jordan played better structured defences against us than in the past.

As a coach coaching attacking interplay, Vidmar has not delivered.

His poor selections in the first game, meant Australia were under pressure in the last, also they played with little confidence. Playing Galloway, Galifuoco, Brillante, and Pain contributed the loss, as none have been playing recent regular football. Donachie improved as the tournament progressed.

One saving grace is that there are at least three teams that Australia could could put out of similar equality under the age of 23.

For all the discussion of the European players missing, it is only players who would boost the Oz attack that would have made a difference.

McLaren's comment about the team playing together for years was pertinent. Even thought they may have developed as a team unit, others outside have made more recent progress.




Edited by Decentric: 22/1/2016 07:53:33 AM



Excellent analysis ,very much agree.


Edited
9 Years Ago by Jonsnow
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I wonder what Ange P, Luke Casserly, Eric Abrams are going to do from here we are relying on these guys shaping our future on where our football is going to look like in the future.

I think what is needed is an independent review from the youth teams to our youth structures, coach education, in general player/coach environment, player ID and pathways reviewing from top to bottom but i don't this will happen as the FFA are not that transparable as their will be too many 'jobs' on the line.

Huge shake up is needed if or else the whole game will suffer, harsh but true.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Barca4Life
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Decentric wrote:
Vidmar had great success with AU in the ACL playing structured defence and counter attacking football. They also had a lot of luck.

The game in issue in these games was players like Antonis, Mauk, Borrello, Brillante, Hoole, playing worse and panicking whilst on the ball compared to playing with experienced teammates at senior level.

Gersbach demonstrated poor decision-making and lack of game sense, plus mediocre 1v1 defending.

Geria was less composed on the ball than he is in the HAL too.

Edwards and Amini, like most of the other attackers lacked creativity.

There was also a massive weakness in 1v1 attacking skills. Other than Antonis and Hoole, rarely did attacking players beat players 1v1 in attacking positions in the attacking third even when receiving facing forwards. In a slightly older age group, Rogic, Burns and Mooy, and even Anthony Caceres, have this capacity to deliver in tight spaces.

I can remember some vociferous debates between Stefcep and SFC supporters debating whether Antonis or Mooy was the better player. Look at the current difference between one playing a lot of football in the last year and the other one playing little.

O'Neill was easily the best player playing further forwards of the defensive line.

Brillante was decent playing as a DM and RB for the Socceroos, but as an attacking midfielder he came up short. h ehas gown backwards Italy.

Amini's defensive capabilities are poor.


McLaren was good, but the attacking interplay in the attacking half broke down against well structured defences so he was starved of service. The belief in FFA is that we are still technically inferior to most Asian nations, but tactically superior. The UAE and Jordan played better structured defences against us than in the past.

As a coach coaching attacking interplay, Vidmar has not delivered.

His poor selections in the first game, meant Australia were under pressure in the last, also they played with little confidence. Playing Galloway, Galifuoco, Brillante, and Pain contributed the loss, as none have been playing recent regular football. Donachie improved as the tournament progressed.

One saving grace is that there are at least three teams that Australia could could put out of similar equality under the age of 23.

For all the discussion of the European players missing, it is only players who would boost the Oz attack that would have made a difference.

McLaren's comment about the team playing together for years was pertinent. Even thought they may have developed as a team unit, others outside have made more recent progress.




Edited by Decentric: 22/1/2016 07:53:33 AM


Brillante was useless as of one the twin No.6 or No.8 in this system, Antonis was needed with Amini in that midfield.

The fullbacks didn't function at all, Gersbach excellent going forward looked lost, Geria in this style doesnt cut it as an overlapping wingback.

Also the front 3 won't work together as they should go which goes back to the individual quality of the player but also the coaches instructions.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Barca4Life
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In my opinion only a few of the Olyroos are ever likely to play for Australia.I really believe the majority of this squad will be bypassed by the next generations.
The current Socceroos squad is quite young.So only injuries and star new players are likely to get a guernsey.
Who in the current Olyroos is in serious contention to displace a current Socceroo in the next three years?
McClaren and Smith and Ikon( both who didnt play).Deng and Gersbach are an outside chance with improvement.Both are new to Olyroos and younger than others.
Olyroos do need a new coach.
Edited
9 Years Ago by crimsoncrusoe
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scott21 wrote:
highkick05 wrote:
Does FFA lose out of this ? The Oly's havn't qualified for much at all recently hey ?

Would be good to see our players developed individually and then given a certain degree of freedom. Right now they don't have either it seems


Its much better to play in Asia and have an easier route to the World Cup than play in Oceania and have an easy run to Olympics and Confederations Cup.


We'll see how things pan out when Tim Cahill retires.
Edited
9 Years Ago by trident
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You think we would have qualified if the eurobased players were able to play?

Were either of Mabil or Yeboah picked to begin with?

Duncan; Brilliante, Degenek, Burgess, Smith; Irvine, Amini, DDS; Mabil, Maclaren, Ikon

On the bench Lyden, Yeboah, Ryan Williams, Dougall, Taggart plus the best A-league guys

Edited by apillay12: 22/1/2016 03:34:21 PM
Edited
9 Years Ago by apillay12
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I admit I only saw the Vietnam game but even after we went 2-0 up we looked like a complete rabble. Needless sprinting, rushing passes and losing the ball too often as a result.

Where the f**k was Vidmar telling them to calm down and knock it around with 3 points safe and the next game always going to come down to head to head for a top 2 spot?

There was no leadership on the park or the sidelines. I have never seen a team want to rush passes as often as I did in that second half. I realise the Vietnamese players were chasing like annoying little flies but Jesus. Nobody was willing to put their foot on the ball and hold it up, take a breath and control the tempo. Players looked rushed and stressed.
Edited
9 Years Ago by Davide82
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apillay12 wrote:
You think we would have qualified if the eurobased players were able to play?

Were either of Mabil or Yeboah picked to begin with?

Duncan; Brilliante, Degenek, Burgess, Smith; Irvine, Amini, DDS; Mabil, Maclaren, Ikon

On the bench Lyden, Yeboah, Ryan Williams, Dougall, Taggart plus the best A-league guys

Edited by apillay12: 22/1/2016 03:34:21 PM


Many of them were able to play and did.
Edited
9 Years Ago by trident
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Simon Hill asks the tough questions after Olyroos’ failure at AFC Under-23 Championship in Qatar.


http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/socceroos/simon-hill-asks-the-tough-questions-after-olyroos-failure-at-afc-under23-championship-in-qatar/news-story/0de34b171e4c5b8d03077a9b974085ef
Edited
9 Years Ago by lebo_roo
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crimsoncrusoe wrote:
In my opinion only a few of the Olyroos are ever likely to play for Australia.I really believe the majority of this squad will be bypassed by the next generations.
The current Socceroos squad is quite young.So only injuries and star new players are likely to get a guernsey.
Who in the current Olyroos is in serious contention to displace a current Socceroo in the next three years?
McClaren and Smith and Ikon( both who didnt play).Deng and Gersbach are an outside chance with improvement.Both are new to Olyroos and younger than others.
Olyroos do need a new coach.


Agree, it's already trending this way. Some of the best talents in the squad and even key players who were blocked from joining the squad, were players born 1995 or younger like Chris Ikonomidis, 1997-born De Silva, O'Neill's impact coming into the line-up, 1997-born Gersbach's elevation as too Thomas Deng's as you observe. They're just the start.

The 1997-1998 born Young Socceroos generation we're entering into could be one to watch. We could even look forward to more than just the bare minimum of Under 20 World Cup Qualification with that bunch, especially with so many reaching senior level football already and pushing through at higher grades like here.

And lessons must be learned, the Olyroos coaching set-up has to be quite different by 2020. Whether the senior coach takes some more responsibility with his own chosen assistant or a specialist coach appointed, there needs to be serious review to inform the necessary change to provide the best outcomes to achieve as we have sought at other grades. Our expectations, standards, should be rising after two failed campaigns - we demand better.
Edited
9 Years Ago by GloryPerth
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GloryPerth wrote:
crimsoncrusoe wrote:
In my opinion only a few of the Olyroos are ever likely to play for Australia.I really believe the majority of this squad will be bypassed by the next generations.
The current Socceroos squad is quite young.So only injuries and star new players are likely to get a guernsey.
Who in the current Olyroos is in serious contention to displace a current Socceroo in the next three years?
McClaren and Smith and Ikon( both who didnt play).Deng and Gersbach are an outside chance with improvement.Both are new to Olyroos and younger than others.
Olyroos do need a new coach.


Agree, it's already trending this way. Some of the best talents in the squad and even key players who were blocked from joining the squad, were players born 1995 or younger like Chris Ikonomidis, 1997-born De Silva, O'Neill's impact coming into the line-up, 1997-born Gersbach's elevation as too Thomas Deng's as you observe. They're just the start.

The 1997-1998 born Young Socceroos generation we're entering into could be one to watch. We could even look forward to more than just the bare minimum of Under 20 World Cup Qualification with that bunch, especially with so many reaching senior level football already and pushing through at higher grades like here.

And lessons must be learned, the Olyroos coaching set-up has to be quite different by 2020. Whether the senior coach takes some more responsibility with his own chosen assistant or a specialist coach appointed, there needs to be serious review to inform the necessary change to provide the best outcomes to achieve as we have sought at other grades. Our expectations, standards, should be rising after two failed campaigns - we demand better.

We had pretty much our best defenders out and DM's etc, and quality wingers out.

Still with the squad Vidmar had we should have cruised through.

Sometimes it's beautiful to be proven right about a manager many years after everyone still were rating him. Arguably more of a failure than the 2012 qualifiers given we had a good team.
Edited
9 Years Ago by ryan2008
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Coming across feedback of the ACL game, just reminded of our home-based Olyroos teams? It's relatively easy for McLaren and others to score in the A-League, plenty of chances - but in the qualifiers McLaren had one only one clear chance in the last game and that was in the final minute of the game. He hit the cross-bar and that was our Olympic qualification campaign over. Same with Connor Pain in the first game, perhaps our best goal-scoring chance of the tournament and could've seen us draw the first game (And change our qualification chances drastically) - but one-on-one with the keeper on the break and saw his shot just wide. This is harsh, but reality, just not clinical enough at key moments. And for the younger defenders like McGowan and Elsey, they are not faced with such clinical and ruthless finishing in the league, except with a talent like Fornaroli perhaps? :-k

Edited by GloryPerth: 10/2/2016 12:54:54 AM
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9 Years Ago by GloryPerth
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I'm sorry for the bump, but with the current Olyroos generation passed, I guess we turn focus to the 1997-1998 generation of Young Socceroos who will take on their own World Cup Qualification in October:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_AFC_U-19_Championship

It's still some time away, but that generation may include some talents from the Joeys generation who competed in the U17 World Cup, late last year. If some of them progress to senior level this season or entering into next, then the competition for places with the Deng's, Alessi's, Blackwood's, Liam Rose's, Jamal Reiner's and others will intensify as it needs to?

Edited by GloryPerth: 10/2/2016 01:09:16 AM
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9 Years Ago by GloryPerth
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Armenakas - Blackwood - De Silva
Brimmer - Mells
Rose
Gersbach - Deng - Laws - Lyden
Heward-Belle

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9 Years Ago by paladisious
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paladisious wrote:
Armenakas - Blackwood - De Silva
Brimmer - Mells
Rose
Gersbach - Deng - Laws - Lyden
Heward-Belle


Not bad, but the Joeys in that line-up are still more potential over proven and that's why current Young Socceroos talents like Kuzmanovski, Alessi, Anthony Kalik and some of those familiar faces may still be first-choice in the pecking order, at this stage? :-k The AFC U19 Champs may still be a little soon for the recent Joeys and will require them to be bolting to a stage that only a few of the generation ahead of them (97s) have reached yet. Perhaps if some of those A-League signings push through late this season or impress in next A-League pre-season, that could change some things. A player like Cameron Joice could be a good change to bolt right up there with Blackwood, with Jets a weaker team, struggling upfront and an environment under Miller that provides opportunity for younger talents. John Aloisi talked up Joe Caletti quite a bit too, with his mid-season signing at Roar. He's still a very slight player though and may take some development in the gym over the next few years to enable his push into senior football. The European boys still seem a season or two off pushing into senior football in their respective football systems.
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9 Years Ago by GloryPerth
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I think I've prioritised A-Leaguers quite well in that top-of-my-head XI, with Armakas, Brimmer, Laws and Lyden the only Aussies Abroad youth, although the former three all performed in the 2015 FIFA U16 World Cup, and the latter has made his senior debut for Aston Villa, so I feel it's quite warranted.

Some of the A-League guys in that lineup also take over from some promising overseas players but I agree that playing against senior men is the ultimate forum of the turn of phrase to sort the men from the boys, ie Gallifuoco.

I would argue Kalik is one of the players you should be arguing is unproven as he is now somewhere in the youth ranks in Croatia after only a few minutes at CCM.
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9 Years Ago by paladisious
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paladisious wrote:
I think I've prioritised A-Leaguers quite well in that top-of-my-head XI, with Armakas, Brimmer, Laws and Lyden the only Aussies Abroad youth, although the former three all performed in the 2015 FIFA U16 World Cup, and the latter has made his senior debut for Aston Villa, so I feel it's quite warranted.

Some of the A-League guys in that lineup also take over from some promising overseas players but I agree that playing against senior men is the ultimate forum of the turn of phrase to sort the men from the boys, ie Gallifuoco.

I would argue Kalik is one of the players you should be arguing is unproven as he is now somewhere in the youth ranks in Croatia after only a few minutes at CCM.


I agree with Khalik but in a way I'm pre-empting the pattern of selection. This is how it's tended in the past. Many may agree with your prediction and in many ways I certainly hope you are proved right. I excluded Lyden as I agree, he has already warrant elevation and was pretty much an Olyroo too due to his progress. With Laws at CB, a level of physical development may be preferred too, so a player of the older age range might be favoured? Alessi was the captain of recent squads. Armenakas and Brimmer are such exceptional talents that even if they reach to the level of U21s level or the equivalent in Italy, then like Ikon's precedent, that may certainly be enough. I'm hopeful Joice, Bandiera, Lucas Derrick, Pierce Waring and more from that group push through. Jamal Reiners does already at Glory and so he would already be a front-runner for the next Young Socceroos squad, whenever it will be announced.

DDS will have to be the #10 of this generation. He's at such a level he's already a fringe Socceroo and the Young Socceroos front-third will/should be shaped around his play-making in the middle. He was all-but the #10 of the last Olyroos (Blocked from call-up, would've been ahead of Amini, who was sick anyway) and Young Socceroos generations (Ikon's gen, 95/96), which is still amazing in itself!

Edited by GloryPerth: 10/2/2016 04:47:02 AM
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9 Years Ago by GloryPerth
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