who give a fuck about Mooy first touch or he speed , this shit only matters if his touch reduce the team probability of a goal or increase opponent team probability of goal

Mooy skill is the team probability of a goal increase when Mooy is part of the play sequence....that the fucking greatest skill to have in football

Edited by adrtho: 8/3/2016 01:15:09 PM

do you have a google translate program to produce this?

what?

Edited by adrtho: 8/3/2016 01:15:49 PM

prentendee that you can't speakee engrish

what don't you understand

if player does X
X doesn't reduce the team probability of scoring a goal
& X doesn't increase opponent team probability of scoring a goal
then X = it doesn't fucking matter

I do agree with basically all your assessments but I don't think it's fair to imply Mooy came back and was suddenly the best player in the league.

He was just a decent cog in the WSW team with Ono ahead of him and had to look elsewhere after a couple of seasons to find a team that could utilise his strengths

It's really not as simple as : crap in Scotland to superstar of A-League in the blink of an eye

What's the differnets anyway

Davide82

True that. He wasn't the standout player in the league when was at Western Sydney Wanders. But now he's one of, if not the, standout player in the league.

tards gonna hate

this was last week and there is still no NT squad announcement - or announcement of the date of the announcement....

"Postecoglou will finalise his squad by the end of the week for this month’s pivotal FIFA 2018 World Cup qualifiers against Tajikistan and Jordan."

i wish the ffa was more transparent. every other sport there seems to be much better discussion and openness about this kind of thing.

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/article/ange-postecoglou-forecasts-new-faces-for-next-caltex-socceroos-squad/1y2j0kc5a728l165km2whg6b3n



Edited by inala brah: 8/3/2016 02:59:23 PM

I may be proven wrong but I thought a lot of the time squad announcements and other major news was released early on a wednesday morning, tomorrow would be about 2weeks before Adelaide game so I would be surprised if it wasn't released by Friday morning at the latest

Vardy and Mahrez are two examples, you'll find players with similar stories in most teams.

I never said anything about playing with pirlo, I said playing against........

We can discuss whether mooy has good/bad or indifferent first touch all day long at the end of the day it comes down to the end result of his game and at the moment he is doing the business. It's possible players taking the ball in the direction they want to go with their first touch instead of killing it dead is being mistaken by some as a poor touch.

Id love to see some links to where someone/anyone has discussed mooy's issues in European football as like I said, few if any would have known who he was when he was at Bolton and may have only just figured out who is was at st Mirren before he came back here.

Personally I don't think he does have issues with his first touch or handling speed, I think its his style of play and its working......

I really think you are confusing handling speed and tempo. Mooy has the ability to control the tempo of the game when on the ball, that may be through holding onto it a little longer or playing it first time.

We haven't discussed a players physical speed over the turf and nor do we need to in this discussion, so your point in relation to balotelli and totti is irrelevant.

Quickflick, New Signing knows his football, mate.

Like Benjamin, PV4, Someguy, Biscuitman, or Melbourne Terrace (when in analytical mode), even if I initially disagree with what they post, they usually have sound rationale for the positions they hold.

New Signing may not realise it, but from initially listening to, then acting on NS's sage advice, a few young men are currently playing senior NPL at an early age.

Reaction time and decision making. Yes I watch football. Yes on TV.

Amount time between leagues, especially at the back when the ball is being kicked around.

Time for a decision to be made, maybe I time it. Would this be difficult, no. How long player sits on ball before passing. Do the obvious comparisons first. I'll do this just to prove it. Start this weekend by comparing mid-table team in A-League to mid-table team in Premier league.

I'll pull the data like a sample in statistics just do be more accurate.

Edited by highkick05: 9/3/2016 12:56:48 PM

A few seasons ago eh? How about this one from 2014 that shows that Nemanja Matic has covered the most distance in the Champions League by around 5km more than the closest person to him (being Claudemir from Copenhagen), with comparable game time?

And not only that, Chelsea have two players in the top 10, the other being Mohammad Salah who has run the 10th most in the Champions League.

Again, you're talking shit.

Edited by Draupnir: 9/3/2016 01:04:09 PM

"1000, 2000, ... shit my crayon broke ..."

As they say in football its about the speed in the brain not how fast they can, how fast they can think under pressure and execute and less so about the speed in the body.

Mooy might not be the quickest but he's a very intelligent and creative footballer.

Andrea Pirlo, Andres Iniesta comes to my mind as not the quickest in the body but with the brain.

Anticipate, Solve and Execute!

Postecoglou has already alluded to Mooys shortcomings (that Mooy wasn't being called on by the media).

Excessive dwelling on the ball has been his issue since playing at AM with City.

As has his decision-making: he will choose to run into a pack of 3 opponents, spin around 360 degrees and then try to thread a pass to a team mate who was free all along that he could have done with a one-touch pass at the start.

He can get away with it in the A-League but even against Jordan he was caught and turned it over. The Sth Americans and Europeans will destroy him at a World Cup.

what the fuck does that show? how many English teams was in Champ league Group stage ? this show 10 players , and two of them was from EPL

cool, i look forward to any new stats

You need both quickness in the brain and the body.

The brain to make the right decision in the quickest time, the body to execute the decision.

Quickness in the body isn't just about how fast a player runs-its also how quickly he can execute the foot to ball movement. ie quick feet.


Mooys mental and physical quickness is above the majority of A-league players but would be found lacking at the highest level

That is not in dispute, Decentric. His contribution to this thread has been good, I've considered things from different angles (e.g. Gersbach's suitability as a winger on the basis of how he is built) and I agree with quite a bit he says.

I'm glad to hear that his influence has led to such positive and direct impacts upon young players.

Nevertheless, this is an interesting discussion without a right or wrong answer. Some will agree with New Signing, others will agree with me. This is attested to by the comments of others on the forum.

I agree that quality coaching education (and to a lesser extent player background) are highly useful here. But football is not rocket science. Anyone can have an opinion (and it's not necessarily rendered incorrect, even less correct, by way of background).

New Signing, I'll respond to your posts (hopefully with some adequacy) this evening. I have work now. I figured I could make lighter work of Decentric's.

So whqt you're saying is that with less representation in the competition, a player from an English side still managed to run 5km more than his closest rival, and that with less representation 20% of the top 10 players are from English sides?

Oh ok.

the study look at total km the English team run, and found they didn't run any more then teams from other leagues

for every Nemanja Matic, there might be a lazy cunt who run less then he should

1000, 2000 what ?

small sample probably just the mean average of the back four time on ball. no standard deviation or error.
just simple stuff matey. Just to prove point that our league is so damn slow it's like the players want to sit down and have lunch

Mooys already scored more goals than leckie and kruse and has a better scoring record than Viduka and Kewell and they were in the OFC lol... almost a goal every 2 games...from a bloody midfielder..

Edited by jas88: 9/3/2016 04:52:32 PM

Not in top flight European football teams you won't. You'll find the odd player like that but they're very unusual. Those at big clubs whom you can name will be the one in ten I'm accounting for. As I say, 90% of players come through the academy system of at least a half decent club (or a club with a renowned academy system like Southampton), progress through it, maybe they go on to another team (but it's rarely along the lines of Conference League to Premier League). If we're talking about senior guys for the England/France/Germany national teams, there's every chance they played for the national youth teams also.

Why do you think people are so happy about Mahrez, Vardy and Leicester City in general? It certainly doesn't happen all the time. The Leicester City story has a fairtytale element which is inspirational.

I agree with you to the extent that some players emerge via other pathways and I agree those players should be given as much consideration as ones from more conventional pathways. I also think that sometimes the system misses players (we know this happens ad nauseam in Australia) and that some players just don't gel well in certain environments. Put them in another environment and all of a sudden they can do things they couldn't before and seem to be thriving.

But, to reiterate what I wrote in another post, it needs a more nuanced analysis than saying "Mahrez did this, so why can't Mooy?". One needs to deconstruct this and look at the two players' first touch, their positioning (an area where Mooy is admittedly strong), their handling and so on.

When one deconstructs it, players like Mahrez, always had the skills whatever level they were playing. I never saw Mahrez play before he started making noise at Leicester. But he obviously always had skill.

A lot of people were writing off Rogic for a long time. But I knew from looking at his first touch, his handling speed, his evasive moves and how he passed that he was more gifted than any player we've produced since Kewell.

I'm not suggesting players with unusual backgrounds can't make it at the highest level. I'm just suggesting that it's maybe ten percent of the time that this happens and it requires a deeper analysis.



Sorry, I misread that. I have a lot to read every night so I do speed read a bit on 442.



He's doing this in the A-League and against crappy Asian teams. That's not a high enough standard for us to be able to say results matter on their own.

In all sports, statistics need to be looked at through the prism of context. That's to say, we look at metrics, not just stats.

Otherwise, the stats are meaningless. Especially in a league with suspect quality in certain areas.

Mooy's fantastic performances have come in matches when he has been afforded far too much space (in my opinion) and with him taking clumsy touches (in my opinion, you're most welcome to disagree).



Not utterly implausible but fanciful thinking, imo. I genuinely think Mooy has poor first touch. Even in the early stages of the match against Bangladesh he had some appalling first touches (admittedly he probably wasn't settled and everybody fluffs it up from time to time) which saw us lose possession. This was against Bangladesh. You see the same in the A-League. My suspicion is that, under any kind of pressure (and I mean either psychological pressure or just lack of time on the ball), Mooy's poor first touch gets revealed.

I see from comments above that others share my opinion.



I recollect reading suggestions of slowness on a Bolton fans forum. This would have been when he was at Bolton so quite some time ago. Don't forget that devout fans follow these things closely. Whatever. It would be irrelevant if Mooy's style of play suggested he was not slow. But it doesn't. It suggests he hasn't ironed out the creases that stopped him from progressing in Europe. It's just that against mediocre opposition, these weaknesses get covered up. That's why it's problematic.

Sorry for using a cricketing analogy, but this illustrates the problem excellently. You see this with at least a few batsmen every generation. Graeme Hick was an all-time great batsman in county cricket. He produced some amazing innings. On that basis, one would think he would be an England great. What happened? When he played Test cricket, he faced bowlers who were able to apply all kind of pressure on his technical weaknesses which county bowlers could not do. He was weak against the short ball and he was basically a walking wicket.

I suspect Mooy has fundamental technical weaknesses which will get found out against superior opposition. We oughtn't to have a player who is technically suspect in the role of CAM.



Nope. I'm not. I'm suggesting that Mooy has poor first touch and handling speed. This can lead people to think he controls the tempo of the game. But I think it's more down to technical weakness than deliberate attempts to set the tempo of the match.

But I'm glad you brought up the idea of tempo. That is one of the key areas which differentiates the Serie A and La Liga from the Premier League (as you alluded to earlier). But the thing about those leagues is that just because the tempo varies, it doesn't mean that it's slow (or that the players are slow). You get some very quick players in those leagues.



When did I mention speed across the turf? I didn't. I mentioned speed. That can be handling speed as well as speed across the turf.

The point is utterly relevant. The Serie A is full of players with great handling speed (among them Balotelli and Totti, it just happens those two are also quick across the turf). The key point is that if a player has poor handling speed, he will struggle in a league like the Serie A.

Edited by quickflick: 9/3/2016 09:21:07 PM

Stats need to be looked at in context, otherwise they're meaningless. Mooy has mostly competed against abysmal opponents who let him hold onto the ball all day.

I realise you're not suggesting that Mooy will do well overseas, but if he is to be CAM for the Socceroos instead of Rogic, he needs do to that. To suggest he will do well overseas is like suggesting a guy who aces remedial maths will be able to do exactly the same thing in extension maths.

It's possible such a student can do that. But it shouldn't be regarded as probable.

I think Iniesta is fairly quick and agile. He's not quick as quick as Thierry Henry was at getting away from people, but he's quick insofar as he can move in and out of traffic and nobody can catch him.

Regardless, players like Pirlo and Scholes might not be the quickest across the ground, but they have quick handling speed. It's a dubious proposition to suggest that Mooy has quick handling speed, to put it lightly.

Pirlo and Scholes weren't slow on the ball, that's the difference.