What do you suggest then?
This isn't just an Islamic thing.
Christianity has their form of barbarity....ie The Crusades, IRA, etc.
I haven't heard much by means of proposing solutions to the current problem except constant criticism so I'd like your take on what your solution is.


Edited by SocaWho: 15/11/2015 01:55:09 PM

Ironic that Japanese aren't considered racist since they committed some of the most horrific war crimes against the Chinese in WW2.

Howd they know he was radicalised in 2010?

-PB

That's according to a French prosecutor who said he had a criminal record and was identified as having been radicalised in 2010, but had never been accused of terrorism before.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/14/world/paris-attacks/index.html

PB, is this supposed to take the p1ss out of FBK being a Muslim, avoiding getting drenched by the 'heathen' alcohol??:-k

Have the French and Europe not learned how to be multicultural enough?

[youtube]85BKDj_1vVU[/youtube]



[youtube]nkDfqLz6R8o[/youtube]

From today's debate

Bernie Sanders said:

http://www.refinery29.com/2015/11/97666/bernie-sanders-climate-change-isis-terrorism-democratic-debate

=d> =d> =d> =d> =d>



Edited by trident: 15/11/2015 04:58:30 PM

Why do people commit terrorist/violent atrocities?

I can think of two reasons:

1) They're psychopaths and would shed blood happily. It has nothing to do with being Muslim or whatever. They want to shed blood and will do so in the name of any cause.

I watched a series of docos on Northern Ireland. They talked about the Shankhill Butchers. Blokes who went around Belfast finding random Catholics and (no on basis other than the people being Catholic) chopped them up. These blokes need to be in a psychiatric facility. If they were Muslim, I have few doubts they'd be involved with the Islamic State. Religion has nothing to do with it for these people. They'd be psychopaths whatever the religion. Sadly, all religions and political doctrines have people like this: Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, communists, fascists, etc. There's almost no reasoning with them.


2) They're not psychopaths, nor are they bad people, but they are marginalised, they see injustice and the feel compelled to act.

Good people can be brought to do terrible things. Why does this happen? The preaching of ill-informed hatred by psychopaths plays a large part. Another influence is living in an intolerant society which marginalises them. Another influence is suffering they have experienced at the hands of our forces.

Drone strikes, especially when are made in a cavalier manner, really do not help.

If you want to buy into the idea that the West is fighting a war on terror then you're obliged to accept that it is an ideological war. That leaves two options. One- nuke them. Can't do that. Never mind the legality of it, the immorality of it means we might as well just nuke our own countries. Two- win the hearts and minds. Now, when thousands of civilians have been killed in drone strikes how exactly does that help us win hearts and minds? For every strike that kills off some mid-ranking ISIS person, it creates a community worth of enemies.

How would we react if there were drone strikes in our cities? There'd be hell to pay. Small wonder people are driven to the doctrine of religious extremist psychopaths.

Drone strikes should only ever be made when there can be a degree of certainty that only the intended target will be a casualty, when the measure is order to prevent an imminent attack or when the target is a really big wig.

Otherwise, you're just sowing the seeds of more hatred.

Then, when you have societies where individuals are marginalised because of their religion, they're even more likely to be susceptible to the bullshit of religious extremist rhetoric.

3) Lack of pussy

All the mass shooters in the US are awkward white guys and these muslim extremists are obviously very religious and their holy book tells them they can't have sex or jack off. I think theres a correlation here.

[youtube]c4aQ4D-6pok[/youtube]

So apparently the name and picture taken from that Syrian passport found were not known to intelligence officials. Also a good chance it's a fake, apparently it didn't have the correct amount of numbers that a legit Syrian passport should.

I also suspect that a lot have no idea what it's like to be a Muslim in France.

I'm no expert but I study it at tertiary level, I've spent a little bit of time in Paris (but not much and a while back) and I have a good few French friends.

Muslims are seriously marginalised in France. This isn't going to be a popular thing to say but things like Charlie Hebdo do not help. They've contributed to a culture of marginalisation. Charlie Hebdo is not the product of right-wing anti-Muslim sentiment. But believe you me, it's out there. And gratuitously mocking the religion of people who are already greatly marginalised does not help things in the slightest. It's basically just like pouring kerosene onto a fire. What the hell is the point?

There are people who believe Muslim immigration should be permanently banned. There are people who see Muslim children and are disgusted. They refuse to have respect for people on the basis of religion. I can think of few things more disgusting. The far right just about openly admit this. Imagine saying that about Jewish people.


I saw a documentary, done by a British Muslim woman, who went to France and looked at lives from the viewpoint of Muslims there. I think it was on SBS or ABC2. People just told her she had no right to be in Britain and that she ought to be in the Middle-East. She met a Muslim lawyer or businesswoman or something who had great qualifications. When she applied for jobs, under a Muslim names, she got nothing. When she applied under a French sounding name, she got all sorts of offers.

These people are seriously disenfranchised.

And it ain't new.

There's all this talk about this massacre being the worst thing to have happened in France since the Second World War. Short-sighted bullshit.

As far as I'm aware, this is the worse thing thing to have happened in France since the 1960s. Did you know that in 1961, dozens of Arabs were drowned in the Seine. After 37 years of denial, the French Government finally admitted that 40 had been killed. And that's the minimum. Estimates (probably rather liberal) suggest that over 200 Arab protesters may have been killed by the French National Police. I mean for God's sake. Some were beaten unconscious by the police and then thrown over the bridge into the Seine BY THE POLICE! The police then boasted about their actions.

How is it in any way surprising that people are driven to listen to the crap spouted by extremist elements within Islam.

This is not a new problem for France. Innocent people are reaping the whirlwind sown by the wind that is the government's and society's lack of tolerance, acceptance and cruel violence.

Liberté, égalité and fraternité look lovely on nice buildings in gold lettering. But then too many in French society have always been about veneer.

Edited by quickflick: 15/11/2015 05:37:18 PM

Edited by quickflick: 15/11/2015 05:38:34 PM

Psychopaths don't kill themselves. They either murder covertly, or they get others to do it for them. The terrorists are brainwashed cultists, their leaders in the background are the psychopaths.

are you disagreeing with the findings of science and the CIA?
what other authority would you consult? tea leaves? the mythical man in the sky?

Never a missed opportunity to push the climate change agenda.

What I mean to say, without any expertise in the fields of criminology or psychology, is that there are people who are seriously mentally unbalanced and wish to let blood and torture people. Such people don't need an excuse to do so. Some (but not all) Islamic extremists fall into this category. I'm saying there's a good chance that they'd be violent whether there Muslim, Catholic, communist or whatever. The Shankhill Butchers are an example of Loyalists who were like this.

I think your distinction is very good and explains a lot about those inciting hatred/co-ordinating attacks and those carrying out attacks.

the Paris Climate international summit at the end of this month will agree with Mr Sanders and given this occurred right in the same city this will be a sensitive and topical issue

Then just leave if life sucks so much ?

They are following the Quran, it literally tells them to kill non-believers?

Or France could start practising what it preaches and focus on those three words; liberté, égalité et fraternité?

Why should be people, citizens of a country no less, be treated like shit on the basis of their religion?

1) they're not, else they would have left
2) the home country should never change for migrants, it should be the other way around

So does the Bible if you look in the right places.

What of it?

Have a listen to people with expertise in Islam, not people like Andrew Bolt

You don't get it mate.

Firstly, lots of these people were born in France. Where do they go? They're French. FRENCH. FRENCH. FRENCH.

Secondly, why should they (whether they were born in France or not) leave a country of which they're a citizen? Why should they be subjected to racist and prejudiced attitudes?

Thirdly, have a read up on French history and political philosophy.

French political philosophy is, essentially, tolerant. Voltaire, Montesquieu, etc.

It's not a case of France changing its values. It's a case of France living up to the political ideals it has preached for 300 years.

Edited by quickflick: 15/11/2015 06:11:16 PM

:lol:

Ok bud, Mohamed was a warlord who propagated his "religion" through the sword.

Yes, there are peaceful passages, but these are overridden by the warlike pasaages later in the book.

Whatever, keep employing your mental gymnastics, you're just as clueless as the rest of them.

If they're Muslim theyre culturally not French.

Hate begets more hate.

I also cannot believe the amount people are carrying on about this. Yes, people have died, hundreds of people are brutally mowed down every day all across the world, either become an activist/pacifist and start complaining about all the horrors in the world or stop being bitch ass hypocrites. Of course if you are French, go for gold, but otherwise accept the fact that we have been vaporising their children for the past 15 years and they were bound to hit back at our homes eventually. Perhaps look at the root causes of this sudden rise in Islamic extremism, extremism which we barely cared about 20 years ago.

And this banning Islam nonsense. Fuck me dead. So ISIS wants to take away our rights and freedoms which you all seem so upset about, so in response you want to take away peoples rights and freedoms? Jesus Christ some of you are deadset peasants straight from the 13th century.

You make some great points quickflick but it's wasted on here.

That's nice. Please tell me everything you know.

Fixed.

And IMHO any country seeking to introduce multiculturalism MUST look to us, not the US/UK/anywhere else, for the model to emulate.

It should be noted that France has a particular spot in the ire of these jihadist monsters b/c of said country's past imperial-subjugation of Muslim-majority lands that have since become independent nations :idea:

Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon etc...