Don't they do reading comprehension in South Australia?

These attacks are pure evil and words fail me. Those involved have done unspeakably bad. That's basically what I wrote above. I hope those who co-ordinated them are caught and spend the rest of their lives in prison.

I am simply explaining why these attacks occur in the first place.

And I'm fairly sure a hard line will (correctly) be taken with those who co-ordinated these attacks.

What do you think is going to happen? They're going to be put up in the Park Hyatt?

A hard line will be taken. Rightly so.

So I don't get what you mean in suggesting that "blaming everyone other than those responsible" will see these attacks continue. Those directly responsible will be blamed (I am blaming them now).

However, wouldn't it be nice if we could work out the social causes which facilitate these attacks and act against that too?

Or would you rather just hate all Muslims?

Bang on.

I, thus far in this thread, haven't said Christianity had anything to do with Hitler's atrocities.

I believe UnitedGal suggested that blaming Islam for this is akin to blaming to Christianity for the KKK or blaming Germans, generally, for Nazism. Apologies if I've misrepresented your opinion at all UnitedGal. And I backed that up.

If you reread, that's what you should find.

Nazism was, if I recall correctly, a basically atheist ideology. That's not to blame atheism for Nazism, by any stretch of the imagination.

It capitalised off Prussian militarist tendencies and the suffering of the German people on account of the debilitating terms of the Treaty of Versailles. Although there were many very religious Nazis, I genuinely think the mainstream Christian organisations were opposed to it. Many Lutherans were involved in sheltering Jews. The Catholic Church cops a lot of flak for their Concordat. My uncles (themselves fairly devout Catholics) think this is justified. I personally disagree.

I agree with Sir Martin Gilbert (one of the world experts on Nazism and the Second World War, co-incidentally, Jewish) who believes that the Catholic Church did a good job in protecting Jews. I'm just citing numbers off the top of my head (I haven't time to verify them). From memory about 6000 Jews were hidden from the Nazis in the Vatican under arrangements made by Pope Pius XII.

In Croatia, the story wasn't so rosy. Clergy were actively involved in the Holocaust. But elsewhere, it wasn't too bad on the part of the Catholic Church. I don't have the figures at the ready but, from memory, Gilbert's estimation is that somewhere between half a million and a million Jews were successfully hidden around Europe in Catholic churches, households, etc.

Early on bishops who spoke out against Nazism were killed. I think the Pope probably realised that if he condemned Nazism and called upon Catholics to resist Nazism, he'd risk the death of thousands and thousands of Catholics. He saw it as safer for their welfare to reach an arrangement with the Nazis and also this would make it possible to shelter more Jews. What would have happened to that large number of Jews if the Pope had encouraged a more overt resistance?

That's my personal opinion (borrowing from one of the best historians on this matter).

But obviously that doesn't detract from the evil done by the Catholic Church which has been so painfully revealed in recent months.

Edited by quickflick: 23/3/2016 08:36:12 AM

There is a problem with radicalisation.

What people fail to realise is that radicalisation is made possible because of marginalisation of Muslims. You can see from this thread that very marginalisation and that's from people all the way in Australia (a million miles from Europe, but I suppose Australians also have a tendency to be very racist)

Pack it up guys, it's all our fault.

Just like the Hebdo attacks, it was the Belgians intolerance that led to the attacks.

To prevent any more like these, I suggest we flood our countries with mass Muslim migration so these poor, marginalised people feel more at home. I also think we should cover up our women and begin stoning gays so that Muslim migrants don't get triggered by our racist values.

Once we're majority Muslim and adopt Islamic culture, all our evil Western imperialism and racism will be a distant memory and we'll be living in a progressive utopia.

People are angry Because people like you stick your fingers in your ear and say "LA LA LA LOOK AT HOW CHRISTANS BOMBED AN ABORTION CLINIC 30 YEARS AGO LALALA" and pretend there isn't a problem, or somehow it's our fault.

I'm an atheist myself, but I know which religious majority Id rather live in. You know, the one that has actually adapted to the 21st century.

Edited by 433: 23/3/2016 08:42:26 AM

I'm not from SA, clearly indicated below my avatar, so yeah your comprehension leaves a lot to be desired.

You have no idea why these attacks occurred, you're a Bigot and incredibly ignorant.

Muslims blowing themselves up marginalises Muslims! These are not Middle easterners! How dense are you? I am in no way saying every Muslim is a a terrorist, don't confuse that, but to deny Islam is the problem really is stupidity on the highest level.

The mental gymnastics you took for that reply is impressive.

There is never a justification for the mindless killing of innocent people. The fact that you are trying to somehow justify it is incredible. By burying your head in the sand, you are part of the problem.

So the reaction to 'marginalisation' is to walk into a building with people have nothing to do with it and massacre them

Glad my parents and the parents of most of the people I know didnt follow that philosophy

A good article: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/a-terrorist-attack-has-happened-in-europe-let-the-standard-response-begin

I wouldnt waste my time. Quickflick is a pure marxist whos sympathies lie with islam and the more non muslim casualties there are , the better it suits his cause.

The Left are in bed with the Jihhadis, no matter which way you look at it.

what annoys me most is his lack of sincerity for the victims.



Edited by Socawho: 23/3/2016 09:23:36 AM

See this thread is heading in the right direction.

-PB

So answer me this... who caused the Arab spring

He's right about reactions however I disagree with his last point about models. Intergration into Australian society has been going for over 100 years with no major problems. They haven't anywhere near the same level of intergration of europeans and asians, but there still is not massive islamist issue here.

perhaps though this is just down to our isolation.

Quickflick, im still waiting for you to come up with another hashtag like #illridewithyou

quickflick, don't waste your time. They'll strawman you and call you every name under the sun. Let them live with their irrational hate.

strawman arguments..ha...a bit like your imagination .


Edited by Socawho: 23/3/2016 09:29:38 AM

typical response of the Left, bury our heads in the sand and pretend it never happened

Case rested

Couple of points to consider:

- Muslims in the middle east have been the victims of IS terrorism. I would estimate in large numbers too. My only point in raising that is to respond to those making massive generalisations about muslim belief.
- I do agree that stating that religion has nothing to do with what is happening is ridiculous. But I don't think many people actually argue that. All that is being argued is that extrapolating the beliefs and actions of terrorists to everyone who has the same religion is ridiculous and inaccurate.
- For comparison, I recommend people read up on the Anarchist Terror movement and 'propaganda of the deed' in the late 1800s/early 1900s. The similarities in terms of generalised govt crackdowns creating more terrorists, and fearmongering about foreigners suspected of being anarchists is very interesting. Obviously the case of Sacco & Vanzetti is interesting too.
- Are people aware of IS's openly stated strategy in Europe? Their goal is to provoke a societal and govt crackdown in Europe, in the hope of driving European born muslims into their arms to commit more atrocities.

So everyone talking about stopping muslim migration, and deporting muslims etc, realise that you are actually doing exactly what IS is wanting you to do.

fuck you, i don't hate anyone :lol:

religion is a big problem. it doesnt matter what faith, they cause more than good....
the BIG problem is the Left sympathises with Islamic terrorism and makes a case argument as to why it should be condoned

Edited by Socawho: 23/3/2016 09:40:57 AM

Something tells me you don't know what the word irrational means :lol:

Maybe the bombing of innocent people some hours ago has something to do with it? I'm only speculating.

Mcjules on one foolish occasion decided to lecture me and Batfink what the landscape of Merrylands/Auburn is like in his own figmentation when he has never set foot outside of his city of Adelaide into these areas...yet Batfink lives in the area and i pass through those parts pretty much every day.:d

Now you tell me who is irrational:lol:

p.s
i forgot to mention he thinks its ok for a few rogue imams to go around preaching hate and inciting violence

8-[

Edited by Socawho: 23/3/2016 09:47:08 AM

Edited by Socawho: 23/3/2016 09:47:53 AM

Edited by Socawho: 23/3/2016 09:49:26 AM

i think half are just lazy, and cal it muslim and not islamic extremism..the other half, are dumb and likely to vote for Trump when he call for all muslim to be ban

Q: What do you call a right winger who argues based on rationality, logic & evidence?










A: A left winger

i was waiting for you to crawl out of your rock

Again you are full of shit and just repeating boilerplate leftist banality. Bin Laden, Zwahiri and the Sept 11 attackers were all spoiled little rich boys living in their own muslim countries. They weren't marginalised at all.

You sound like Andrew Bolt - what is "the Left"? Again, its the same type of generalisation that is meaningless.

Who is arguing that any form of terrorism should be condoned? As far as I can see, the argument is about how and why these terrorists develop. They don't come out of a vacuum.

If it was something inherent to the religion itself, why did it develop in the 1990s? Why did the PLO terrorist violence in the 1980s (conducted by arabs) have a completely secular, Marxist basis, as opposed to Islamic? Why did secular terrorist groups of the left (Red Brigades) develop in Europe in the 1970s, and authoritarian right wing dictatorships in South America (Chile, Argentina, Brazil) develop in the 1970s and 1980s?

The point is that pointing the finger at one thing (religion, Marxism, fascism) is never the whole answer. Pretending it is just means you will never gain a thorough understanding.

This current spate of terrorism is neither new, or unprecedented. It is something that has repeated in cycles since the invention of explosives under many guises.

The main role of religion, in my opinion, is to motivate people at the "foot soldier" level. But nationalism, ideology (fascism, Marxism, anarchism) can also play that motivating role.

You are a liar and an idiot. Have you ever been outside of Adelaide or lived in a muslim country? All devout Muslims take the Koran literally and view Mohammed as the perfect example of mankind. There is no school of Islamic study that views the Koran as less than the absolute truth. You are as ignorant of Islam as you are about Christianity, yet you keep making these baseless assertions.

Even if we allow for your great lie that most Christians take the New Testament seriously give an example of Jesus calling for violence? Does he ever say anything along the lines of the trees and calling out "There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him". Can anyone guess what religious text that comes from?