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TheSelectFew
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Agreed JDB. The willingness to never stop and stay composed to the final whistle was very encouraging.
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quickflick
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Higashi
Your last post on the matter, huh? :lol:
There's a good reason why I break up what you say. You may not have realised this but most people (even you) tend to convey separate ideas in separate sentences. I can assure you that I do read your subsequent points. However, if I detect that your sentences contain separate points, I try to refute them one-by-one. Similarly, some points you make are repeated (or basically summarised in the one sentence), therefore I don't paste the whole thing, in the interest of shortening my post length
And, of course, you've advanced larger arguments which depend on premises which you've first advanced. You use the word hence a lot to signify that you're drawing a conclusion. When I've adequately rebutted the conditional premise(s) upon which your entire argument rests, it's not always necessary for me to bother with rebutting the hence or conclusion part (it just goes without saying, a lot of the time).
Anyway, It makes things clearer if one deals with individual points or ideas (which is what I try to do) than to quote a whole chunk of text and deal with all the separate points in one go. Deconstructing the arguments of others is key to arguing. However much this may annoy you.
You certainly haven't managed to prove that you've refuted my arguments or that I've made straw man arguments. You just like to say you've done that in order to make it seem like your case is not untenable and that mine is. As I say, it's the classic symptom of somebody losing an argument who can't accept that they might have it wrong. Proof by assertion, to which you constantly resort, is nothing but an informal fallacy which summarises how you're going about things. I.e you argue by fallacy and with insults rather than point by point. The burden of proof rests with the person making the claim. If you're going to claim you've refuted an argument, you must prove it. If you're going to allege others are making strawman arguments, you must identify this (by quoting what they said and then demonstrating how this can in no way be construed or inferred from what you actually said. Simply saying that's not what you said isn't good enough).
I've explained to you one of the reasons why Australian footballers in Europe haven't succeeded as much as you'd hope; that they've gone to the wrong European football clubs. That answers your question to a large extent. You've not refuted this, in spite of your claims to the contrary. Nor have you managed to refute why it is that kids, originally, from Australia should be less likely to succeed at European football clubs than kids from elsewhere in the world if they go to Europe in their mid-teenage years (i.e. before the age when the differences in football culture in Australia compared to elsewhere will have disadvantaged them). That's what's key to this.
At the end of the day, there's no physiological or anatomical difference between Australians and the rest of the human race (as you've acknowledged). We agree that there are differences in football culture and upbringing. The corollary of this is that if the footballers go to Europe at a young enough age, these differences are smaller and our footballers are less and less disadvantaged. That's why they ought to go to the right European football academies sooner rather than later. That's the crux of everything I'm saying and it's something you're wholly unable to refute.
Edited by quickflick: 25/7/2016 10:50:39 PM
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Dan_The_Red
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Well this looks like another thread not worth visiting anymore, cheers Quickflick.
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Higashi
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Hey Quickflicks just delete your post and PM it to me.
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quickflick
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Higashi wrote:Hey Quickflicks just delete your post and PM it to me. You're welcome to PM me and discuss this there. I'll be happy to reply. But sorry I'm not deleting my post when it serves as a reply to the suggestion, levelled on a public forum, that I've created strawman arguments, contradicted myself and so on and so forth. Dan the Red and others interested in what is otherwise a really great thread, sorry but I'll stick up for myself when I'm happy I've been fair (although a tad impolite at times) and make compelling arguments.
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Jonsnow
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quickflick wrote:Higashi wrote:Hey Quickflicks just delete your post and PM it to me. You're welcome to PM me and discuss this there. I'll be happy to reply. But sorry I'm not deleting my post when it serves as a reply to the suggestion, levelled on a public forum, that I've created strawman arguments, contradicted myself and so on and so forth. Dan the Red and others interested in what is otherwise a really great thread, sorry but I'll stick up for myself when I'm happy I've been fair (although a tad impolite at times) and make compelling arguments. Maybe start a new thread to have the debate ? Hence then ,this thread may go back to been about underage national teams.
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Higashi
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Jonsnow wrote:quickflick wrote:Higashi wrote:Hey Quickflicks just delete your post and PM it to me. You're welcome to PM me and discuss this there. I'll be happy to reply. But sorry I'm not deleting my post when it serves as a reply to the suggestion, levelled on a public forum, that I've created strawman arguments, contradicted myself and so on and so forth. Dan the Red and others interested in what is otherwise a really great thread, sorry but I'll stick up for myself when I'm happy I've been fair (although a tad impolite at times) and make compelling arguments. Maybe start a new thread to have the debate ? Hence then ,this thread may go back to been about underage national teams. Don't worry I won't argue with him anymore in this thread. I've already sent a PM.
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Capac
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There's nothing wrong with having genuine and respectful discussion but maybe when it's something taking up the majority of a threads pages it should be taken to another one if it's off topic. The past couple of pages would have been great in performance for instance.
Anyway regardless, does anyone know when we need to have the squad finalised? I wonder if they go with a similar squad, especially since this tournament would have helped acclimatise the boys to what Goa is going to be like.
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quickflick
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Higashi
kudos to you. My reply is on the way. Capac and others, sorry. I imagine I've found this no more enjoyable than Higashi, so I do apologise to you guys who've not been involved but had to cop reading it.
On the issue of acclimatising to Goa. We've been there basically in the same season. Very, very hot and humid. I should imagine it'll be similar to other tournaments in that part of the world. Possibly hotter than this one but slightly less humid.
The other thing to be mindful is that illness has a habit of striking at anytime in India more so than most other parts of the world. I'm not sure how true this is but I've heard tell that Goa is cleaner than most other parts of India, but it's still really easy to get horrendously ill there.
Hopefully they get there nice and early to acclimatise because you imagine that other sides will find the conditions more tolerable.
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Mustang67
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Anyway regardless, does anyone know when we need to have the squad finalised? I wonder if they go with a similar squad, especially since this tournament would have helped acclimatise the boys to what Goa is going to be like.[/quote]
The qualifiers start on the 15th Sept, so you would think that a squad would be finalised a couple of weeks beforehand. As for which players go and which ones don't have to wait and see.
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Davide82
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Dan_The_Red wrote:Well this looks like another thread not worth visiting anymore, cheers Quickflick. 
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Decentric
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Barca4Life wrote:I've put an article on aus football thread about the issue of heading the ball and the rant from ron smith about the new development system's style of play.
Not sure if i should put it here given it relates to our youth and senior teams, but its worth discussing as a seperate thread. Good to see to the link, Barca. I haven't posted on it yet. At the lower level of the FFA echelons in rep coaching, I was concerned about heading not being given enough weighting in the FFA NC. One of the NTC coaches said he worked on heading quite a bit, because his CBs and DMs needed to negate the type of football game plans their weekly club opposition used to try and defeat them. With the Joeys in this tournament, the heading of the the CBs and maybe DM, appeared to be adequate. Roberts also headed about three goals it the last two games.
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ryan2008
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Quote:Lachlan Brook of Gawler compared to Socceroos superstar Harry Kewell SOUTH Aussie Lachlan Brook - who has been compared to Harry Kewell - has the potential to become an Australian football superstar, says Joeys boss Tony Vidmar. His coach, Australia under-17 boss Tony Vidmar, said 15-year-old Brook had the traits of being the best Australian playmaker of his generation. But Vidmar warned the former Gawler Eagles, Para Hills, Raiders and SA NTC player is far from a finished product. “It’s always dangerous using the word potential,’’ Vidmar said. “He has a lot of good qualities, he’s a player that can make something happen from nothing, a left-sided player that has a good shot on him, can score goals, can create goals as well. “He’s got the hallmarks of being a great player but he’s one that can’t afford to take it easy and sit back - he really needs to push himself hard. But he’s a match winner.” SA-born Brook, who has access to a European passport, has a yearning to play for Liverpool, where Kewell won the UEFA Champions League in 2005. Brook was a standout, along with another brilliant SA product, Louis D’Arrigo, 14, as the Joeys claimed the recent ASEAN Football Federation championship crown in Cambodia in a shootout final win over Vietnam. The SA pair are based in Canberra attending the AIS, where Vidmar is the boss. Brook has a cracking left foot shot, explosive pace and plays as a No. 10 — an important creative player’s position. He scored four goals and had seven assists in Cambodia. D’Arrigo — a Birkalla product — also impressed Vidmar during the tournament in Cambodia as the former Socceroo contrinued grooming this current crop for the AFC FIFA World Cup Under-17 qualifiers in Goa, India in September. He scored an important goal in the semi final of the tournament against Thailand. Adelaide City and Adelaide United legend Carl Veart moulded Brook and D’Arrigo during their stints with SA’s NTC elite squad before Vidmar picked the pair up and took them to Canberra’s AIS. “Louis was at Birkalla and Carl Veart had him,’’ Vidmar said. “He’s an attacking midfielder and he’s that one that will be the box-to-box midfielder and I think he’ll have a good engine on him. “He’s worked really hard and he excelled during the tournament, he’s got a good execution and good delivery and he’s also a very tough player likes to get in and tackle.” Brook is a confident teenager as A-League clubs circle for his signature. He has ambitions of playing for England’s Liverpool but knows the road is long. “I want to make it as a professional,’’ Brook said. “I’ve always been a follower of Liverpool and I see myself wanting to play for them. “I just want to enjoy it and I want the game to by my job. “I’ve always kicked a ball since I was two and fairly decent and they decided to put me into football.” D’Arrigo, a Year 9 student in Canberra, has dreams of playing for Juventus of Italy. He started getting serious about his game at Birkalla from under-8s before impressing Veart and later Vidmar. “I’d love to play in the A-League first,’’ D’Arrigo said. “But first I hope to get picked to go to the World Cup qualifiers.” http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/lachlan-brook-of-gawler-compared-to-socceroos-superstar-harry-kewell/news-story/7cfb9db629aa0fe8474afc684e99fd8c?utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=FoxFootball
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George_Worst
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ryan2008 wrote:Quote:Lachlan Brook of Gawler compared to Socceroos superstar Harry Kewell SOUTH Aussie Lachlan Brook - who has been compared to Harry Kewell - has the potential to become an Australian football superstar, says Joeys boss Tony Vidmar. His coach, Australia under-17 boss Tony Vidmar, said 15-year-old Brook had the traits of being the best Australian playmaker of his generation. But Vidmar warned the former Gawler Eagles, Para Hills, Raiders and SA NTC player is far from a finished product. “It’s always dangerous using the word potential,’’ Vidmar said. “He has a lot of good qualities, he’s a player that can make something happen from nothing, a left-sided player that has a good shot on him, can score goals, can create goals as well. “He’s got the hallmarks of being a great player but he’s one that can’t afford to take it easy and sit back - he really needs to push himself hard. But he’s a match winner.” SA-born Brook, who has access to a European passport, has a yearning to play for Liverpool, where Kewell won the UEFA Champions League in 2005. Brook was a standout, along with another brilliant SA product, Louis D’Arrigo, 14, as the Joeys claimed the recent ASEAN Football Federation championship crown in Cambodia in a shootout final win over Vietnam. The SA pair are based in Canberra attending the AIS, where Vidmar is the boss. Brook has a cracking left foot shot, explosive pace and plays as a No. 10 — an important creative player’s position. He scored four goals and had seven assists in Cambodia. D’Arrigo — a Birkalla product — also impressed Vidmar during the tournament in Cambodia as the former Socceroo contrinued grooming this current crop for the AFC FIFA World Cup Under-17 qualifiers in Goa, India in September. He scored an important goal in the semi final of the tournament against Thailand. Adelaide City and Adelaide United legend Carl Veart moulded Brook and D’Arrigo during their stints with SA’s NTC elite squad before Vidmar picked the pair up and took them to Canberra’s AIS. “Louis was at Birkalla and Carl Veart had him,’’ Vidmar said. “He’s an attacking midfielder and he’s that one that will be the box-to-box midfielder and I think he’ll have a good engine on him. “He’s worked really hard and he excelled during the tournament, he’s got a good execution and good delivery and he’s also a very tough player likes to get in and tackle.” Brook is a confident teenager as A-League clubs circle for his signature. He has ambitions of playing for England’s Liverpool but knows the road is long. “I want to make it as a professional,’’ Brook said. “I’ve always been a follower of Liverpool and I see myself wanting to play for them. “I just want to enjoy it and I want the game to by my job. “I’ve always kicked a ball since I was two and fairly decent and they decided to put me into football.” D’Arrigo, a Year 9 student in Canberra, has dreams of playing for Juventus of Italy. He started getting serious about his game at Birkalla from under-8s before impressing Veart and later Vidmar. “I’d love to play in the A-League first,’’ D’Arrigo said. “But first I hope to get picked to go to the World Cup qualifiers.” http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/lachlan-brook-of-gawler-compared-to-socceroos-superstar-harry-kewell/news-story/7cfb9db629aa0fe8474afc684e99fd8c?utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=FoxFootball I have high hopes for Brook. He looks a special player.
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RedKat
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What number are we up to on "the next Kewell"?
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grazorblade
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RedKat wrote:What number are we up to on "the next Kewell"? well to be fair we have had a huge number of talented injury prone players so the predictions of the next harry kewell has had some truth in it
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Barca4Life
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grazorblade wrote:RedKat wrote:What number are we up to on "the next Kewell"? well to be fair we have had a huge number of talented injury prone players so the predictions of the next harry kewell has had some truth in it From what we have seen from him the kids has got certain qualities to classify him as what Han Berger would say is a 'match winner' the kid has got the ability to create something from nothing with his quick feet and dangerous left foot so he's an exciting talent, but like any young player they need to work hard on their game and not live up to the hype they have been given and just rely on talent. Also he needs to avoid getting injured too as this has happened to previous players who have had similar hype. Decentric disagrees with me with this but this kid reminds me a bit of Tom Rogic although he has a low center of gravity as he isnt as tall and lanky like Rogic but this can glide players he's just a bit inconsistent at doing at it given his age. It would be very keen to see what he and the rest of the joeys against the likes of Japan etc in september. Edited by Barca4life: 30/7/2016 07:02:37 PM
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George_Worst
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While I liked what I saw with his dribbling and vision it was his ability to hit a volley which most impressed me. There was a game where he not one but two stunning volleys, i think one hit the post and the other was saved. He seems to have that real x factor. Looking forward to seeing his career progress.
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Capac
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http://africanfootball.com/news/635461/EXCLUSIVE-Staggering-26-fail-Eaglets-MRI-test-first-team-wiped-out Nigeria will be hugely depleted for Saturday’s U17 AFCON qualifier at home against Niger after a staggering 26 players out of 60 failed the mandatory MRI screening conducted last week. Kinda of puts last year loss into perspective.
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Decentric
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+xgrazorblade wrote:RedKat wrote:What number are we up to on "the next Kewell"? well to be fair we have had a huge number of talented injury prone players so the predictions of the next harry kewell has had some truth in it From what we have seen from him the kids has got certain qualities to classify him as what Han Berger would say is a 'match winner' the kid has got the ability to create something from nothing with his quick feet and dangerous left foot so he's an exciting talent, but like any young player they need to work hard on their game and not live up to the hype they have been given and just rely on talent. Also he needs to avoid getting injured too as this has happened to previous players who have had similar hype. Decentric disagrees with me with this but this kid reminds me a bit of Tom Rogic although he has a low center of gravity as he isnt as tall and lanky like Rogic but this can glide players he's just a bit inconsistent at doing at it given his age. It would be very keen to see what he and the rest of the joeys against the likes of Japan etc in september. Edited by Barca4life: 30/7/2016 07:02:37 PM I don't disagree with you on Brook having talent. I'm just reluctant to make big calls on kids at 16. They don't need the pressure of being vaunted as the next big thing. I'm surprised Tony Vidmar has actually gone public on Brook's and D'Arrigo's talents. I was reading an article where many players from around the globe who've starred in underage World Cups fade out a few years later . Some even even quit pro football prematurely.
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Decentric
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It certainly does. I'm guessing MRI shows some sort of cheating.
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TheSelectFew
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Excuse my ignorance but does the MRI reveal age?
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Decentric
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+xExcuse my ignorance but does the MRI reveal age? Mate, I'm so glad you asked. LOL! I thought I was the only one who didn't know and was too embarrassed to say!
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walnuts
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+xExcuse my ignorance but does the MRI reveal age? I believe it does, yes. According to this source, this is how it works: 4. By using MRI to scan the wrist, it is possible to verify the age of players or athletes to ensure they are within the specified age limit in sports competitions. The technique looks at the degree of fusion of the distal radial physis using a grading system that correlates with the player's age. As age increases, so does the fusion grading.
5. MRI can determine age below or over 17 with a certainty of 99%. In other words, since all the Golden Eaglets players at the just concluded U-17 FIFA World Cup were subjected to MRI test, there is only 1% chance that any of the players is older than 17 years.
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TheSelectFew
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+x+xExcuse my ignorance but does the MRI reveal age? I believe it does, yes. According to this source, this is how it works: 4. By using MRI to scan the wrist, it is possible to verify the age of players or athletes to ensure they are within the specified age limit in sports competitions. The technique looks at the degree of fusion of the distal radial physis using a grading system that correlates with the player's age. As age increases, so does the fusion grading.
5. MRI can determine age below or over 17 with a certainty of 99%. In other words, since all the Golden Eaglets players at the just concluded U-17 FIFA World Cup were subjected to MRI test, there is only 1% chance that any of the players is older than 17 years. Wow. That really puts it into perspective. FIFA should ban them from future youth tournaments and fine them and ban those responsible.
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TheSelectFew
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+x+xExcuse my ignorance but does the MRI reveal age? Mate, I'm so glad you asked. LOL! I thought I was the only one who didn't know and was to embarrassed to say! +x+xExcuse my ignorance but does the MRI reveal age? Mate, I'm so glad you asked. LOL! I thought I was the only one who didn't know and was to embarrassed to say! No shame in not knowing.
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clivesundies
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+x+x+xExcuse my ignorance but does the MRI reveal age? I believe it does, yes. According to this source, this is how it works: 4. By using MRI to scan the wrist, it is possible to verify the age of players or athletes to ensure they are within the specified age limit in sports competitions. The technique looks at the degree of fusion of the distal radial physis using a grading system that correlates with the player's age. As age increases, so does the fusion grading.
5. MRI can determine age below or over 17 with a certainty of 99%. In other words, since all the Golden Eaglets players at the just concluded U-17 FIFA World Cup were subjected to MRI test, there is only 1% chance that any of the players is older than 17 years. Wow. That really puts it into perspective. FIFA should ban them from future youth tournaments and fine them and ban those responsible. I dont see that the article is accusing Nigeria of cheating by having overage players at tournament, rather that the squad of players they are currently trialing have were tested and some found to be overage.
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TheSelectFew
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+x+x+x+xExcuse my ignorance but does the MRI reveal age? I believe it does, yes. According to this source, this is how it works: 4. By using MRI to scan the wrist, it is possible to verify the age of players or athletes to ensure they are within the specified age limit in sports competitions. The technique looks at the degree of fusion of the distal radial physis using a grading system that correlates with the player's age. As age increases, so does the fusion grading.
5. MRI can determine age below or over 17 with a certainty of 99%. In other words, since all the Golden Eaglets players at the just concluded U-17 FIFA World Cup were subjected to MRI test, there is only 1% chance that any of the players is older than 17 years. Wow. That really puts it into perspective. FIFA should ban them from future youth tournaments and fine them and ban those responsible. I dont see that the article is accusing Nigeria of cheating by having overage players at tournament, rather that the squad of players they are currently trialing have were tested and some found to be overage. It is highly speculated that, in the article, that there have been instances in the past.
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clivesundies
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+x+x+x+x+xExcuse my ignorance but does the MRI reveal age? I believe it does, yes. According to this source, this is how it works: 4. By using MRI to scan the wrist, it is possible to verify the age of players or athletes to ensure they are within the specified age limit in sports competitions. The technique looks at the degree of fusion of the distal radial physis using a grading system that correlates with the player's age. As age increases, so does the fusion grading.
5. MRI can determine age below or over 17 with a certainty of 99%. In other words, since all the Golden Eaglets players at the just concluded U-17 FIFA World Cup were subjected to MRI test, there is only 1% chance that any of the players is older than 17 years. Wow. That really puts it into perspective. FIFA should ban them from future youth tournaments and fine them and ban those responsible. I dont see that the article is accusing Nigeria of cheating by having overage players at tournament, rather that the squad of players they are currently trialing have were tested and some found to be overage. It is highly speculated that, in the article, that there have been instances in the past. Agreed.
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+xExcuse my ignorance but does the MRI reveal age? I believe it does, yes. According to this source, this is how it works: 4. By using MRI to scan the wrist, it is possible to verify the age of players or athletes to ensure they are within the specified age limit in sports competitions. The technique looks at the degree of fusion of the distal radial physis using a grading system that correlates with the player's age. As age increases, so does the fusion grading.
5. MRI can determine age below or over 17 with a certainty of 99%. In other words, since all the Golden Eaglets players at the just concluded U-17 FIFA World Cup were subjected to MRI test, there is only 1% chance that any of the players is older than 17 years. Wow. That really puts it into perspective. FIFA should ban them from future youth tournaments and fine them and ban those responsible. I dont see that the article is accusing Nigeria of cheating by having overage players at tournament, rather that the squad of players they are currently trialing have were tested and some found to be overage. It is highly speculated that, in the article, that there have been instances in the past. Agreed. And just to further that it has been all but confirmed for a long time.
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