You see when you make comments like this you make the case FOR promotion/relegation stronger.
You have such a bee in your bonnet about the NSL and use it as your negative reference point that you cannot use logic to see that some "Football Culture specific" changes and additions would move the game forward in a positive way. 
The promotion/relegation movement is now positioned as a positive, progressive and enlightened ideology that is taking a life of it's own creating a pressure on the FFA Board and Executive that will make it inevitable.
The Anti promotion/relegation brigade is sending out negative and conservative messages bringing up irrelevant issues in a changed landscape from 11 years, 20 years and 40 years ago. Offering exclusion and more of the same that even the franchisee owners are not happy with.

We all accept that the FFA is the controlling body of the game here. Its up to the FFA in many ways to put expansion out to tender, but they haven't and they won't in the short term.
The FFA has made it clear they have interest in creating a franchise in the Sutherland Shire to capitalise on the "Derby Concept".

Todays article about the A-League franchises Chairmen refusing to sit at the FFA dinner for the FIFA officials should be ringing alarm bells to you, but you Conveniently appear to ignore these alarm bells.

And hence I say to you keep up your stance and commentary as it is as it only makes the viewpoint I have more positive relative and progressive by the day.
Thank you.

it wasn't enough money..GFC paid more

nothing stop SFMC or anyone, in submitting a bid for a 3rd Melbourne team 

You see when you make comments like this you make the case FOR promotion/relegation stronger.
You have such a bee in your bonnet about the NSL and use it as your negative reference point that you cannot use logic to see that some "Football Culture specific" changes and additions would move the game forward in a positive way. 
The promotion/relegation movement is now positioned as a positive, progressive and enlightened ideology that is taking a life of it's own creating a pressure on the FFA Board and Executive that will make it inevitable.
The Anti promotion/relegation brigade is sending out negative and conservative messages bringing up irrelevant issues in a changed landscape from 11 years, 20 years and 40 years ago. Offering exclusion and more of the same that even the franchisee owners are not happy with.

We all accept that the FFA is the controlling body of the game here. Its up to the FFA in many ways to put expansion out to tender, but they haven't and they won't in the short term.
The FFA has made it clear they have interest in creating a franchise in the Sutherland Shire to capitalise on the "Derby Concept".

Todays article about the A-League franchises Chairmen refusing to sit at the FFA dinner for the FIFA officials should be ringing alarm bells to you, but you Conveniently appear to ignore these alarm bells.

And hence I say to you keep up your stance and commentary as it is as it only makes the viewpoint I have more positive relative and progressive by the day.
Thank you.

By the way you may not know that Victoria every year sends over $1.7million to the FFA in capitation fees.
As about $100,000 from a sporting body will start off investment by Council State and Federal governments in infrastructure.
That's money that could be used to establish seed capital for 17 synthetic pitches per year.
Or it could be used to improve 17 Football facilities with change rooms, reception facilities all the things needed to run good clubs.
Or we could run well funded school programs.
Or we could invest in Boutique stadiums 2 or 3 10-15,000 seater stadiums would be great.
But we can't because money from kids aged 6 to 18 is going to the FFA.
By the way 60% of an AFC coaching Licence goes straight to the FFA even though the State federations run the C and B Licences!

With that kind of money available to invest in facilities and coach education Community Clubs could do so much more for the game.

The promotion/relegation movement is now positioned as a positive, progressive and enlightened ideology that is taking a life of it's own creating a pressure on the FFA Board and Executive that will make it inevitable.

that what all the communism said in 1960-70s. 

again, my words on 442 don't have the power to change what will happen.....what will happen has the pagers already  written

yes, the alarm bells ring, because the A-League can be dead very fast...A you live, B you die, Living is good , select A 

well tell FFA to stop sending 16 year old to India to play at AFC under 16 championship ...

Thank you for continuing to make my point.

it wasn't enough money..GFC paid more

nothing stop SFMC or anyone, in submitting a bid for a 3rd Melbourne team 

again, my words on 442 don't have the power to change what will happen.....what will happen has the pagers already  written

yes, the alarm bells ring, because the A-League can be dead very fast...A you live, B you die, Living is good , select A 

i'm happy to make your point, that you sound like all communism (living in the West ) in 1960-70s, 

no, what we don't want, is to be dead...stagnation  is better then dead

there is a 2nd div, it called the NPL

if clubs want to play in the A-League, they should submit a plan to the A-League

Fury attendance was also like two days after a cyclone hit the region (the surrounding highways around Townsville were still cut due to flooding ffs).

-PB

Watched a glimpse of the SM Hellas vs Oakleigh Cannons NPL final I think it was and there was a great crowd of at least 2,500.

However couldn't help hearing the chants of Hellas throughout. I though some here say SMH had some connection with Australia but this may have been just wishful thinking.

Ethnic ties have held football back in Australia

Posted on October 3, 2014 by MikeOrTheDon

A few years ago at work I was asked to show around a new employee, a young Englishman named Michael.We got to talking and it emerged that Michael was a recent arrival in Australia, and was here to play football semi-professionally. He’d come to Australia to study, but was also playing football for aVictorian Premier League club, who were paying him a small stipend for his work as a central defender.Weird that so many young English people end up in Australia, right?I asked him to compare the quality of the play in England to Australia, and his responses were generally predictable:

1. England has a higher overall standard of play.
2. Australia has surprisingly good goalkeepers though.
3. English leagues are quicker.
4. Australians are more aggressive

His next point was the one that, I admit, caught me off guard:

5. There is too much ethnicity wrapped up in Australian football.

Michael was black, so you might think this was his main issue. Thankfully, I can report that he’d experience no direct racism. The problem he saw was that certain clubs retained a national identity and played in the same leagues as teams with historically conflicting national identities.For Michael, his problem was that his club was considered a ‘Serbian’ club. Occasionally they played a ‘Croatian’ club, and Michael was exposed to genuine deep-seated bile and full-blown hatred from the opposing supporters, players, and officials.“I’m clearly not Serbian but I don’t think that matters,” he said with a shrug. “They still hate me.”In case you need a quick history lesson, Serbs and Croats aren’t big fans of one another. Other clubs also have strong divisions based on their ethnicity, principally clubs “aligned” with Greece, Italy, Macedonia, Russia, Turkey, Armenia, Israel, Lebanon, and an almost endless list of other Diasporas.Michael’s experience shows an ugly underbelly for Australian football: an underbelly where you don’tshare a beer and a chat with your opponents after a match because you have a genuine hatred for them, their families, their culture.I may hate you… but dammit I respect you, Stone Cold.To their credit, Football Federation Australia have recognised this as an issue, and have a number of policies aimed at reducing or stamping out overt displays of ethnic pride that can potentially cause tensions to rise.One recent example saw Melbourne Knights prevented from taking to the park in the FFA Cup until they changed or removed their conveniently-named sponsor, “Melbourne Croatia Soccer Club” from the front of their team kit. They had blatantly tried to bypass the rules, and got caught out.Subtle. Understated.In the end, they had to play with no front-of-shirt sponsor at all. It caused a little bit of a stir, and many fans for teams with ethnic ties will argue that their clubs history, culture, and pride are too important to lose. The argument that a club should be allowed to retain (frequently-divisive) ethnic ties basically boils down to these points:

1. These clubs often have done a lot for establishing football leagues in Australia and deserve respect for this.
2. Ethnic ties are a reliable source of club culture, players, and supporters.
3. It is racist to ban clubs from retaining their national pride.

I actually agree with those three points, but I still don’t think they cut the mustard.Have all the ethnic ties you want, retain your culture and your history… but don’t complain when the peak body doesn’t want you in the top flight because of the inherent and unacceptable risks your ethnic ties carry.The FFA has a responsibility to protect and advance the GAME.This is more important than your club being allowed to chant hatred.I believe this is more important than ethnic ties, and I see efforts to control overt displays of ethnic pride in high-profile leagues as being in the best interests of the game in this country.Football is the world’s biggest sport and it competes in an extremely cluttered sporting landscape in Australia. Fighting for media attention, junior participation, and community respect are all vital elements of advancing the game.I’m not a naysayer for Australian football. I don’t believe the media bulldust about rampant hooliganism (which simply isn’t backed by stats) or the pro-AFL narrative that “soccer is for sheilas, wogs and poofters.”I believe that a tremendous FFA Cup Competition – with hundreds of matches played at local grounds across the nation – can be an exceptional advertisement for the game both with the media and with the community.I also believe that one car-park fight between supporters of a (let’s say, totally hypothetically) ‘Turkish’ club and an ‘Armenian’ club would completely and irrevocably undo any and all goodwill for an entire tournament.2007 Australian Open, but no-one was talking about tennis.When Bobby Despotovski set off a firestorm of racial violence in the old NSL for flashing a Serb “salute” it was possibly the darkest day in Australian football history. It was dirty laundry being shown to the entire country. It was ugly, very public, violent, and a shocking indictment on the rationality of each clubs’ supporters.Yep. This seems like a good reason to riot.So now we have the A-League. The FFA have done a good job of, wherever possible, discouraging ethnic ties and ensuring they do not dominate any individual A-League club.Clubs with strong ethnic ties can play in Premier Leagues across the country, compete in the FFA Cup (and already we’ve seen them defeat some A-League clubs) and argue till the proverbial cows come home that they belong in the top flight.But (SOAPBOX ALERT) the FFA has a responsibility to the game first and foremost, and I believe they’re making the right decisions on ethnic ties. Clubs can retain their history and celebrate their culture if they like – but they can’t do it in the most publicly visible league in the country.Instead, anyone can walk into an A-League merchandise store and purchase any scarf they want without first having to check their birth certificate to make sure it’s safe. I can watch Melbourne City thump the Victory scum with a mate wearing the wrong colours, and we’ll go grab a beer after the game. Fans sit in the stands without fencing between rival factions. Supporters are loud and passionate, but they don’t beat each other up because of a 1000-year-old dispute.Yes, ethnic ties brought football a long way in Australia. However, it quickly reached a point where they held the game back. As the game got bigger, the tensions and aggression between clubs were amplified and broadcast more widely to the non-football community. This is not good.The peak body, rightly, has looked to sidestep ethnic ties and I believe the game will benefit. The next generation of Aussie kids (And I say they’re ‘Aussie’ regardless of their ethnic background) should be able to go and watch the top flight and support any team they want. This is good.So for all the fans of ethnic clubs out there, my ultimate message is this: retain your pride, your culture, your history… but admit and acknowledge that it reached a point where the costs outweighed the benefits for the sport.

https://mikeorthedon.com/2014/10/03/ethnic-ties-have-held-football-back-in-australia/

Great article from a neutral perspective this. Hopefully it's not lost in the diversionary posts that followed its posting.

10+ pages

Its just my opinion but We really need to start a new pro/rel thread for all those that are FOR it. Just so ideas are allowed to flourish amd evolve between those who are looking to explore all the possibilities, rather than diverting our energy into warding off trolls. Getting threads derailed by these infantile nsl strawman arguments are a waste of time. We can keep the old thread for people who love to debate the actual validity of pro/rel in the first place, while this new thread is based on acceptance that pro/rel is the way forward and discussions are based on succesful implemetation etc. 

Would require a mod onboard to weed out trolls, for it to work.

LOL we have threads and posts on pro/rel and ex NSL clubs joining ad nauseum already. As soon as a thread is generated (and there are far and few between) as a counter argument you don't like it.

Maybe the leftist mods will give your wish such is this place.

Closer to 6,000! Thank you for the mention though.As for the term"Hellas" it's the moniker of the club, same as a term like "reds", "toffees" etc.Sure, it's related to the heritage of this near 60 year old historic club, rich in football tradition and trophies, as you would expect any moniker to be.For well over a decade now it is chanted equally by non-Greek & Greek Australian South Melbourne supporters, players, coaching staff etc and not as reference to the country of Greece, but to the team on the pitch!

LOL we have threads and posts on pro/rel and ex NSL clubs joining ad nauseum already. As soon as a thread is generated (and there are far and few between) as a counter argument you don't like it.

Maybe the leftist mods will give your wish such is this place.

A case of if I don't like it I'll just invent it hey Hellas fan? Official attendances below:

NPLVIC GF: South Melbourne v Oakleigh Cannons
Attendance: 4,211
NPLNSW GF: Sydney United v Blacktown City
Attendance: 5,263
NPLSA GF: Adelaide City v Campbelltown City
Attendance: 3,400

Oh let me clarify Paulc, whilst the official attendance given by the FFV was 4,200, even though you did say 2,500, there was at least 1000-1500 let in (for free) and not counted as last ditch desperate measure by the FFV who grossly underestimate the reach and popularity of the match.They even opened up the entire stadium as the match progressed after initially only booking one stand.Now, not sure what you're getting at regarding the club's moniker of "Hellas", you must indeed be joking but let me state with absolute clarity as to leave you in no doubt that the South Melbourne moniker "Hellas", is indeed just that, a moniker for the football team South Melbourne FC.You only need to watch the highlights of the Grand Final to notice there isn't a Greek flag in sight and people of various cultural backgrounds (supporters, players, coaches, staff et all) are celebrating this historic 10th state title triumph for South Melbourne by chanting the club's spiritual moniker "Hellas". Why would South Melbourne abandon this for a chant of "come on you blues?" when this iconic moniker and trumpet chant (the trumpet player is actually Portuguese) is so wel associated with the club?I trust your joking with your "mono ethnic" comments as I'm confident such incorrect and direct racism would not be allowed on such a forum. To suggest the crowd is celebrating the South Melbourne FC grand final as a victory for "Greece" is one of most farcical things I've read for a long time. Also, not that it's a point of reference but I recently compared the boards of Melbourne Victory and South Melbourne and found the following which shows that South Melbourne FC now has greater board diversity than an A-League licenced franchise like Victory:Victory3x Italian Australians4x Anglo Australians*Including 1 female South Melbourne7x Greek Australians2x Italian Australians1x Cypriot Australian1x Anglo Australian*Including 2 femalesGood day sir and how sweet it was to see South Melbourne "Hellas" lift its 10th piece of state silverware one week ago!

Its just my opinion but We really need to start a new pro/rel thread for all those that are FOR it. Just so ideas are allowed to flourish amd evolve between those who are looking to explore all the possibilities, rather than diverting our energy into warding off trolls. Getting threads derailed by these infantile nsl strawman arguments are a waste of time. We can keep the old thread for people who love to debate the actual validity of pro/rel in the first place, while this new thread is based on acceptance that pro/rel is the way forward and discussions are based on succesful implemetation etc. 

Would require a mod onboard to weed out trolls, for it to work.

Hellas a moniker is the best I've heard yet lol

I suppose the Greek names forming the board are a misprint, blue and white team colours a coincident, banned allowing the public watch you play Preston Macedonia is a misunderstanding etc, etc, lol

What a joke.

Hellas a moniker is the best I've heard yet lol

I suppose the Greek names forming the board are a misprint, blue and white team colours a coincident, banned allowing the public watch you play Preston Macedonia is a misunderstanding etc, etc, lol

What a joke.