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fanoffootball
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+x+xthe interesting question a lot of people have been asking for years is when is the best time to go overseas if you play in the a league? My current view is after about 100 a league games if you are a standout in the league Here our opinions on this differ. For most, yep that's fine. But for the best of the best? I'm talking about Derrick, Arzani and Pasquali. Three of Australia's most gifted youth footballers who are all still in Australia. There may be others in Australia of a similar age who are as good or better than them who should also be included. Anyway, those lads are probably about as good as any in the world from any country that age. The problem is this If they play about a hundred A-League games, they'll probably be in their early twenties by the time they get to Europe. Meanwhile, there is some lad in Belgium who we'll say is as good as them (neither innately better nor worse, for argument's sake). From younger than this age, he has had far superior coaches and been playing with and against far superior footballers. From about 17 or 18, he has been playing in the Belgian Pro League. By the time he is about twenty, he has already done so well in that league that clubs like Manchester United, PSG, Dortmund and Barcelona want to sign him and want him to start for them. Being mindful of the notion that those years are so crucial to development, the Belgium lad has been in the best possible set-up. While the Aussie lads have come up against defenders who are deplorably bad and midfielders and strikers who need to take that extra three touches. So by the time they're about twenty, the Aussie lad (after maybe a hundred games) might be ready to make a transfer to the Belgian league. But all the best Belgians (including that other lad) have already finished their development by then and moved to even better leagues. The Belgian league being great for development but perhaps not quite as good as some others in terms of the finished product. The Aussie lads then will have to play in the Belgian league for years. Then, by the time they're in their mid 20s, midtable clubs in the Premier League or Bundesliga or whatever may consider them. And if they do go there, that's handy for the NT (just a case of them not achieving their potential). But even still, those clubs will probably be a bit sceptical because there are other footballers who've done more in less time whom they'll also be considering signing. So basically if they play a hundred A-League games, even if they have the talent, it puts them miles behind their European and South American counterparts. It means they're so far behind in terms of trajectory. It means the chance of becoming world class and playing a starring role for a side competing in the knock-out stages of the Champions League is so much smaller. This is precisely the conundrum of an under developed league. No room for young players and for those that do make the step into A league essentially peaking far to late to be "World Class" prospects. I think the A league clubs need to place a higher emphasis youth prospects and a lower emphasis on journeymen squaddies. Too many disappointing announcements of middle of the road players with 120 A league games and a host of injuries getting precedence over a young 21 YO who has been in an Academy waiting for a break. FFA should step in to increase the mandatory number of U21 in the squads.
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fanoffootball
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+x+x+x+xDon't believe for one moment that Panos, Reno, or Jake are playing at a better level than Rose , Blackwood . And I am aware Gombau and the medical team of thr FFA are in touch with Adelaide to ensure Mells is healthy. Good shout about Mells. He's very promising. I think it's difficult to argue that Armenakas isn't playing (at the very least training) at a standard that is several rungs up. He just made the bench of the Serie A. That's phenomenal. Leaving aside the level he's playing at, he's rather creative. Why do you think people start to froth when Rogic and Mooy come on the scene? Because they bring creativity that you don't get with most Aussie footballers. We get the McKay and Leckie types. And they're very useful, we need them. But the creativity that Rogic, Mooy, Armenakas types bring is rare (rare in all countries, not just Australia). One criticism of the way they're playing at the minute is they can be a predictable. Armenakas is technically good and is very unpredictable. This is invaluable to Australian football. We need footballers who have that je ne sais quoi. Also this isn't purely saying Australian-based footballers aren't good enough or that the level that they're playing at is definitive (it's indicative but definitive). I mention Blackwood, Aranzani and Derrick. The latter was the most dangerous Australian footballer at the U17WC, imo, and one of the few who had technical skill and great acceleration. He suggested he can do more on his own than Armenakas, who plays at a higher level. Then Armenakas suggested the highest levels of creativity which will be terrific for Aus in link-up play. I read on here somewhere that the PS4 player pathway trials with Sydney FC atm, are comparing Socceroo stats against the trialist's to give them a benchmark for gauging performance. this can be useful for determining physical elements and passing stats etc but does nothing to measure vision and game cleverness/flair/creativity. I look at a player like Leckie and see a powerful running winger, but a player who lacks a deft touch and genuine 'two footedness'. is this the Ozzie system failing.. Q. Should young players seek Euro academy and club opportunities, like Amenakas, or plough on through PS4 and Ozzie pathways (COE and A league etc). Bearing in mind recent very bad U16 results against decent Asia condfed teams and poor historical U19's etc. Great question. I basically agree with walnuts on this. I think the Australian system needs to have the structure in place for us to be producing world class youth footballers who become world class senior footballers. By the way, great story from the Aussie lad at the Sydney academy. That's part of the problem and needs to be addressed (among other problems). They need to be strongly encouraged to promote youth. But even if that is addressed, unless the quality of the A-League jumps up substantially, for some of the lads their talent is put to best use by going to the right European club as young as possible. The reality is that most of these lads have most of their immediate family and friends living in Australia. They study here and so on. And, while many have a good chance of becoming professional footballers, only a handful present the traits which would suggest they can end up world class. So it's fair enough for most to stay in Australia (and the system needs to cater for them better). But la crème de la crème are best of going to Europe as young as possible. That comes with the caveat that they need to have the will to make even bigger sacrifices if they wish to be playing at the top tier of world football. Also that development is uneven. There are outliers. Some lads who might not seem to that great will suddenly find talent later. But yep horses for causes. mmmmm.... not entirely convinced by the three names mentioned but i do agree with the idea that our development sytem can fail elite players compared to European time lines
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quickflick
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+x+x+x+x+xDon't believe for one moment that Panos, Reno, or Jake are playing at a better level than Rose , Blackwood . And I am aware Gombau and the medical team of thr FFA are in touch with Adelaide to ensure Mells is healthy. Good shout about Mells. He's very promising. I think it's difficult to argue that Armenakas isn't playing (at the very least training) at a standard that is several rungs up. He just made the bench of the Serie A. That's phenomenal. Leaving aside the level he's playing at, he's rather creative. Why do you think people start to froth when Rogic and Mooy come on the scene? Because they bring creativity that you don't get with most Aussie footballers. We get the McKay and Leckie types. And they're very useful, we need them. But the creativity that Rogic, Mooy, Armenakas types bring is rare (rare in all countries, not just Australia). One criticism of the way they're playing at the minute is they can be a predictable. Armenakas is technically good and is very unpredictable. This is invaluable to Australian football. We need footballers who have that je ne sais quoi. Also this isn't purely saying Australian-based footballers aren't good enough or that the level that they're playing at is definitive (it's indicative but definitive). I mention Blackwood, Aranzani and Derrick. The latter was the most dangerous Australian footballer at the U17WC, imo, and one of the few who had technical skill and great acceleration. He suggested he can do more on his own than Armenakas, who plays at a higher level. Then Armenakas suggested the highest levels of creativity which will be terrific for Aus in link-up play. I read on here somewhere that the PS4 player pathway trials with Sydney FC atm, are comparing Socceroo stats against the trialist's to give them a benchmark for gauging performance. this can be useful for determining physical elements and passing stats etc but does nothing to measure vision and game cleverness/flair/creativity. I look at a player like Leckie and see a powerful running winger, but a player who lacks a deft touch and genuine 'two footedness'. is this the Ozzie system failing.. Q. Should young players seek Euro academy and club opportunities, like Amenakas, or plough on through PS4 and Ozzie pathways (COE and A league etc). Bearing in mind recent very bad U16 results against decent Asia condfed teams and poor historical U19's etc. Great question. I basically agree with walnuts on this. I think the Australian system needs to have the structure in place for us to be producing world class youth footballers who become world class senior footballers. By the way, great story from the Aussie lad at the Sydney academy. That's part of the problem and needs to be addressed (among other problems). They need to be strongly encouraged to promote youth. But even if that is addressed, unless the quality of the A-League jumps up substantially, for some of the lads their talent is put to best use by going to the right European club as young as possible. The reality is that most of these lads have most of their immediate family and friends living in Australia. They study here and so on. And, while many have a good chance of becoming professional footballers, only a handful present the traits which would suggest they can end up world class. So it's fair enough for most to stay in Australia (and the system needs to cater for them better). But la crème de la crème are best of going to Europe as young as possible. That comes with the caveat that they need to have the will to make even bigger sacrifices if they wish to be playing at the top tier of world football. Also that development is uneven. There are outliers. Some lads who might not seem to that great will suddenly find talent later. But yep horses for causes. mmmmm.... not entirely convinced by the three names mentioned but i do agree with the idea that our development sytem can fail elite players compared to European time lines Derrick, Arzani and Pasquale? I don't pay as much attention to this as others. Any other names spring to mind? As regards Derrick and Arzani, they have the combination of things which the best world-class attacking players often have and which very few Australians have- lovely close control, one-on-one ability and speed. Passing is not bad. Game sense and finishing can be improved. In short, they have the technical attributes. So they have the potential, which is relatively rare. I haven't seen enough of Pasquale but the consensus is he's a very gifted midfielder.
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grazorblade
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quickflick:
its a good theory and certainly our best players in the past with the exception of viduka (who still left pretty early) went through the european system or left here as soon as they can
but these days neither us, japan or usa (probably the most similar countries) have found this a viable route lately - players are more likely to just get wasted and have their careers destroyed whereas if they play at home for long enough that same player would go to europe and get deemed better than other players he would have otherwise been deemed as worse than
the fortunes of those who stay and those who go early are very contrasting lately very much favouring those who stay a little longer and the best players by far for australia are not those playing at the highest level (leckie) but those who got a lot of games under their belt before leaving (rogic mooy)
A notable exception of course is pulicic for usa which shows that the european path still works if you are very talented player and win the lottery. But I think the point is that these examples are becoming more rare. And seeing rogic and mooy play for australia I'm becoming less convinced that it would have made much of a difference if they played for dortmund from the age of 18. But we may have lost them on the pine. In other words its high risk low reward these days
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Jonsnow
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Mmm , seems to be people pushing players , I will be very suprised if either Arzani , Derrick , Caletti or Pasquale will be in squad that goes to Bahrain Maybe the European boys , Armanakas and Piscopo will be there along with Glover , Tanner , De Silva , Kalik , Deng and Holmes . The younger ones do need to prove themselves a little bit more.
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quickflick
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+xMmm , seems to be people pushing players , I will be very suprised if either Arzani , Derrick , Caletti or Pasquale will be in squad that goes to Bahrain Maybe the European boys , Armanakas and Piscopo will be there along with Glover , Tanner , De Silva , Kalik , Deng and Holmes . The younger ones do need to prove themselves a little bit more. Where do they prove themselves? Short of going to a place where it's more feasible to get games under their belt (a course of action I recommend in specific cases), it seems like international youth football is as good a place as any to prove themselves. Isn't that one of the main purposes of international youth football? Potential-wise, we got a glimpse of most of those mentioned at the last U17 WC. I'd argue that they did enough to prove themselves there by showing a playing style which was, imo, too few and far between from the group at large.
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quickflick
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+xquickflick: its a good theory and certainly our best players in the past with the exception of viduka (who still left pretty early) went through the european system or left here as soon as they can but these days neither us, japan or usa (probably the most similar countries) have found this a viable route lately - players are more likely to just get wasted and have their careers destroyed whereas if they play at home for long enough that same player would go to europe and get deemed better than other players he would have otherwise been deemed as worse than the fortunes of those who stay and those who go early are very contrasting lately very much favouring those who stay a little longer and the best players by far for australia are not those playing at the highest level (leckie) but those who got a lot of games under their belt before leaving (rogic mooy) A notable exception of course is pulicic for usa which shows that the european path still works if you are very talented player and win the lottery. But I think the point is that these examples are becoming more rare. And seeing rogic and mooy play for australia I'm becoming less convinced that it would have made much of a difference if they played for dortmund from the age of 18. But we may have lost them on the pine. In other words its high risk low reward these days But we can't draw a distinction between Australians, Americans, Japanese, Europeans, South Americans, etc. At the most basic level, we're all human beings. There's no physiological or anatomical difference between people from different nations. Nationality/race does not alter potential or ability (at least not with respect to measurable skills in football). The earlier they go, the less impact cultural difference has. There's an extent to which natural ability dominates; i.e. some footballers are so good they'd dominate in any league (regardless of background). But this is so rare even among the rarity that are elite footballers. Mostly, you need to be coached by the best and playing with and against the best from a young age. If you're naturally as good as somebody in the best set-up in the world, but you're in the A-League playing a hundred games, your going to be a long way behind that bloke. If you're a top-notch cricketer would you be better off going through a cricket system in Holland or going through the Centre for Excellence (or the ECB academy) and then the Sheffield Shield/County Championship? The answer is fairly obvious. You asked about Graeme Hick in the cricket thread. Even with his excellence in the County Championship (not that shoddy), it still didn't expose him to high enough standards. This meant that when he was exposed to such standards, his weaknesses were found out again and again and again. I see exactly the same thing happening with most Australian footballers, even if they have all the talent in the world, if they stay here too long. At least these guys have a chance at following the trajectory of the same world class prospects from places like Belgium if they go to a place like Belgium young. The prospect of them being a world class footballer is there, if they go young. It's next to zilch if they play a hundred games in the A-League. I'm also starting to think that the Golden Generation were mentally tougher than most footballers these days. And the reason for that, imo, is they had to do the hard yards a long way from home at a younger age. Good mention of Pulisic. I'm talking about la crème de la crème. He's among them. So was Harry. So too are Lee Seung-woo (from Korea who is at Barcelona) and Martin Ødegaard (from Norway who is at Real Madrid). We can include Adnan Janujaz from Belgium who was at Manchester United from a young age. They're all successful example of footballers who went overseas very young. Obviously, it's too early to say if any of our young footballers are quite that good (some of those lads are basically the best in the world for their age), but I think there are some lads who have the natural talent, technical ability (and athletic ability where needed in specific positions) to be world class. These few, if they want go as far as possible in football, ought to go to the right European academy as soon as possible. It's interesting you mention Rogic and Mooy. Both are outliers in different ways. Mooy because he was in Europe for ages, didn't get far, came back to Australia and now is one hell of a midfielder in Europe. It's like a deuxième jeunesse. We can be very proud of him. Rogic is an outlier because his technical skill is off the charts. It's next to inexplicable that he is as good as he is having done his development in Canberra. I still can't fathom it. So both are unusual. I wager that t if they had gone to the right clubs, like Ajax, from a young age, both would quite possibly now be key players for big European sides. Maybe not. It's hypothetical and imponderable. They might have slipped off the radar (but so too have talents that have gone through Australian pathways). All I'm saying is they'd have more chance of reaching their potential if they'd gone somewhere that would have recognised and nurtured their potential. Happily, they're still doing brilliantly. They can aim higher than the success of the best Socceroos in Europe at the minute.
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maxxie
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I think the Maty Ryan example is something we can learn a lot from. Obviously at this point he's not set the world on fire at Valencia, but to be fair to him, he's had injury problems and Valencia have been a trainwreck since he got there, which would have been hard to predict. The point is that he got to a champions league club in arguably the best league in the world at age 23 and the foundation of his career was playing 3 seasons in the a-league and then moving somewhere that he'd play first team football.
Even if the Valencia deal hadn't come about, this path gave him a lot more options then if he'd gone to say England at 16 and not made the first team, only to return to Australia at 20 years old and have to start his career from there.
I think this method is a lot more productive than throwing our most talented young players at the wall of European academies and hoping one sticks. It also has the effect of keeping our best talents here, thus impoving the quality of our league and by extension the quality of opposition our players are playing against.
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Decentric
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+x+x+x+x+xDon't believe for one moment that Panos, Reno, or Jake are playing at a better level than Rose , Blackwood . And I am aware Gombau and the medical team of thr FFA are in touch with Adelaide to ensure Mells is healthy. Good shout about Mells. He's very promising. I think it's difficult to argue that Armenakas isn't playing (at the very least training) at a standard that is several rungs up. He just made the bench of the Serie A. That's phenomenal. Leaving aside the level he's playing at, he's rather creative. Why do you think people start to froth when Rogic and Mooy come on the scene? Because they bring creativity that you don't get with most Aussie footballers. We get the McKay and Leckie types. And they're very useful, we need them. But the creativity that Rogic, Mooy, Armenakas types bring is rare (rare in all countries, not just Australia). One criticism of the way they're playing at the minute is they can be a predictable. Armenakas is technically good and is very unpredictable. This is invaluable to Australian football. We need footballers who have that je ne sais quoi. Also this isn't purely saying Australian-based footballers aren't good enough or that the level that they're playing at is definitive (it's indicative but definitive). I mention Blackwood, Aranzani and Derrick. The latter was the most dangerous Australian footballer at the U17WC, imo, and one of the few who had technical skill and great acceleration. He suggested he can do more on his own than Armenakas, who plays at a higher level. Then Armenakas suggested the highest levels of creativity which will be terrific for Aus in link-up play. Q. Should young players seek Euro academy and club opportunities, like Amenakas, or plough on through PS4 and Ozzie pathways (COE and A league etc). Bearing in mind recent very bad U16 results against decent Asia condfed teams and poor historical U19's etc. Horses for courses for me - if a player and subsequently his family are able to join a Euro Academy and learn and develop through them then it should be encouraged. On the flip side, if a player doesn't wish to or can't leave Australia (thinking non-EU heritage) then we need to make sure we provide enough opportunities for them to learn and develop here. This is hopefully where the A-League academies that are being planned and built will come in to play. The beauty of our game is that is a truly global experience - we should never seek to put the shackles on a players movement and thirst for a 'football education' to fit some pre-defined mantra or curriculum. What one player learns in Australia will be vastly different to what a player learns in Italy, vastly different to what a player learns in the UK, vastly different to what they learn in Central Europe and so on. This shouldn't be seen as a negative - we should embrace this diversity of learning! By learning in different footballing cultures they will all bring something different to the table at a senior national level. This is what will enable us to become consistently good at a top level. There are numerous examples of nations that put an emphasis on 'staying at home' to ply their trade and learn the game and fail regularly on the international stage - perhaps the most stunning example of this is England. Plenty of talented players over the years, but they all play the same way because they were all taught the same way - makes them incredibly one-dimensional at senior level. There will be other examples but that is the most high profile one I can think of. The Socceroos have always been a clash of competing styles and ideologies among the playing group - it's what happens with a largely migrant population. All it takes is a special type of manager to understand this and use it to our advantage - Hiddink did it, Ange is currently doing it. In short, we should be encouraging our youth to simply play - it doesn't matter whether it's in Australia or overseas, we just need them playing. I know a young lad 18 YO who was at one of the Sydney based A league academies. The first team coach told the academy players that most of them would get their first contract overseas, not in OZ. So as a pathway to A league, the academies are limited. The player actually ended up going O/S (not sure where) cause he felt that his chances of actually being a player with a pro contract were greater. The A league tends to be for older, already developed pro's. No room for young players. The NPL, as a part time semi pro environment, is inadequate. The player felt that if he was moast likely going to have to go O/S then why wait. Learn the O/s System and style and language sooner rather than later. IMO, although the A league academies may be OK, they do not offer much in the way of pro outcomes for young 18 - 22 players. If we had a 2nd tier pro environment this could be different. ATM players will need to go as soon as they are able. I think someone already noted the disparity in the number of young socceroos who actually have regular A league time, and it is not many. Maybe that is part of the problem. Interesting post. Another reason we need more professional clubs in Oz. Opportunities are limited to too few.
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fanoffootball
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From "The Roar" another perspective regarding current Joeys setup and COE The improvement of the Socceroos under Ange Postecoglou has been something all football fans should be proud of. Playing exciting high-octane football, with a steel and craft away from home that has our national team moving nicely towards qualifying for Russia in 2018.With the likes of Tom Rogic and Aaron Mooy destined for big moves in the next 18 months, and an average age closer to 25 than 30, a new optimism ahead of Russia may see our national team match the wonderful 2006 side.A majority of this group of players cut their teeth in the A-League before moving overseas. These are good times to be a Socceroos fan.All strong football nations in every confederation have a strong pool of young players and teams at the youth level that also perform and succeed in the under 20 and under 17 level.In Europe the top teams in the seniors generally are the strongest countries in the youth championships. Each year Germany, Spain, Portugal, France will have their under age national teams reaching semi-finals of their respective UEFA tournaments. Strong national youth teams lead to strong senior teams on most occasions.In Asia we see the same. Japan and South Korea are either in the final or last four a majority of the time in AFC championships across all age groups.For Australia there is no doubt we have a strong group of senior players, all of whom are moving closer to reaching their peak for the senior team. The concern now is what is happening below.Players used to be selected for under 17 squads from a range of different pathways. If a kid was playing senior football at NPL or equivalent they were called into the camps and competed for selection with boys from State programs and the AIS. I believe this is no longer the case. If a player doesn’t come through the FFA Centre of Entitlement, sorry Excellence, then the door is shut.I have no doubt across the country there are talented young players, giving everything week in, week out in the NPL system. Playing on difficult pitches, against demanding opposition, learning their craft in a rewarding environment. They are cherished by their clubs, communities and coaches, and many working across the board to help them play semi-professional football and reach their potential.These young players are taking the rocky road in the NPL. They are grateful, humble and know there are no favours or entitlement when competing with an adult for a berth in the starting line-up.We also have parents and players putting all their hope of their kid making the Skillaroos, or NTC or AIS, as the only pathway to stardom, and creating entitlement and elitism which is breeding a generation of players expecting to rock up, train, play for the national team at 16 then get an A-League contract sent to you in the post.Football isn’t like that. What a player is like at Under 12 is no indication of what he will be at 18.Roaring Recommendations A young player from Vietnam or Thailand surely doesn’t have the pandering and entitlement that our young players have in Australia. They train in terrible conditions, maybe with less qualified or experienced coaches, yet have that drive and will to improve and compete in ‘horrendous” conditions. That’s what helps these nations advance ahead of us.The class of 2006, had a number of players that went through the AIS. Viduka, Moore, Grella, Emerton, Aloisi. Once they finished their school at the AIS they walked straight into starting line-ups for the big clubs of the time.Stepping straight into the hotbed of the NSL, for their next years of schooling, playing with seasoned players locally and from abroad.Now as the age of the players into the AIS has dropped to 15-16, these players now come out and continue to only play against kids their own age. Even if they move the A-League youth Team, which is mostly Under 18/19 players, they are left with a gap of 2-3 years waiting for the golden ticket to professional football.The FFA may scoff at “Old soccer”, “New football” tag lines and tweet furiously when we stun Laos, beating their chest at the pathway’s success, yet when the group of players of 2006 were receiving their “street” education at the NSL clubs, the resilience and mental strength is what drove them to successful careers in big leagues with big clubs.Today, a player goes overseas and when they have to work hard, put in the tough yards, overcome setbacks, the player is on the phone to head back to the A-League for a nice soft landing.We want better technical players, and I see the individual technical ability is far stronger than years gone by. But the question is, has this era of entitlement and protection, by closing the door to only a select few, diluted one of our football’s strongest and most admired traits?The NPL needs to be acknowledged and supported as an alternative pathway, with FFA working with them in developing into strong footballing schools, with Technical Directors who are specialists in Program Development, Methodology and long term player development. The scouting system locally is all based on convenance. Put them all in one place, all together so I don’t have to go visit clubs and listen to what is happening.I heard recently a Skillaroos team played games against a token NPL select of the same age.They played four times, with the non-selected players beating the Skillaroos on each and every occasion.Of the group of non-Skillaroos boys who briefly trained together and played together only one boy was asked to come into the program.FFA and Member Federations has created a bubble, which has been floating along while the rest keep working and training and dreaming, and sailing past them, with the attitude of I will show you, not what will you show me.
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walnuts
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+xI think the Maty Ryan example is something we can learn a lot from. Obviously at this point he's not set the world on fire at Valencia, but to be fair to him, he's had injury problems and Valencia have been a trainwreck since he got there, which would have been hard to predict. The point is that he got to a champions league club in arguably the best league in the world at age 23 and the foundation of his career was playing 3 seasons in the a-league and then moving somewhere that he'd play first team football. Even if the Valencia deal hadn't come about, this path gave him a lot more options then if he'd gone to say England at 16 and not made the first team, only to return to Australia at 20 years old and have to start his career from there. I think this method is a lot more productive than throwing our most talented young players at the wall of European academies and hoping one sticks. It also has the effect of keeping our best talents here, thus impoving the quality of our league and by extension the quality of opposition our players are playing against. I like this - I think we need to keep improving our local development scene to a (hopefully) world class standard where it gets to the point where every player at the very least starts in the A-League system, at either junior or senior level. That should be the end goal.
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Decentric
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+xFrom "The Roar" another perspective regarding current Joeys setup and COE The improvement of the Socceroos under Ange Postecoglou has been something all football fans should be proud of. Playing exciting high-octane football, with a steel and craft away from home that has our national team moving nicely towards qualifying for Russia in 2018.With the likes of Tom Rogic and Aaron Mooy destined for big moves in the next 18 months, and an average age closer to 25 than 30, a new optimism ahead of Russia may see our national team match the wonderful 2006 side.A majority of this group of players cut their teeth in the A-League before moving overseas. These are good times to be a Socceroos fan.All strong football nations in every confederation have a strong pool of young players and teams at the youth level that also perform and succeed in the under 20 and under 17 level.In Europe the top teams in the seniors generally are the strongest countries in the youth championships. Each year Germany, Spain, Portugal, France will have their under age national teams reaching semi-finals of their respective UEFA tournaments. Strong national youth teams lead to strong senior teams on most occasions.In Asia we see the same. Japan and South Korea are either in the final or last four a majority of the time in AFC championships across all age groups.For Australia there is no doubt we have a strong group of senior players, all of whom are moving closer to reaching their peak for the senior team. The concern now is what is happening below.Players used to be selected for under 17 squads from a range of different pathways. If a kid was playing senior football at NPL or equivalent they were called into the camps and competed for selection with boys from State programs and the AIS. I believe this is no longer the case. If a player doesn’t come through the FFA Centre of Entitlement, sorry Excellence, then the door is shut.I have no doubt across the country there are talented young players, giving everything week in, week out in the NPL system. Playing on difficult pitches, against demanding opposition, learning their craft in a rewarding environment. They are cherished by their clubs, communities and coaches, and many working across the board to help them play semi-professional football and reach their potential.These young players are taking the rocky road in the NPL. They are grateful, humble and know there are no favours or entitlement when competing with an adult for a berth in the starting line-up.We also have parents and players putting all their hope of their kid making the Skillaroos, or NTC or AIS, as the only pathway to stardom, and creating entitlement and elitism which is breeding a generation of players expecting to rock up, train, play for the national team at 16 then get an A-League contract sent to you in the post.Football isn’t like that. What a player is like at Under 12 is no indication of what he will be at 18.Roaring Recommendations A young player from Vietnam or Thailand surely doesn’t have the pandering and entitlement that our young players have in Australia. They train in terrible conditions, maybe with less qualified or experienced coaches, yet have that drive and will to improve and compete in ‘horrendous” conditions. That’s what helps these nations advance ahead of us.The class of 2006, had a number of players that went through the AIS. Viduka, Moore, Grella, Emerton, Aloisi. Once they finished their school at the AIS they walked straight into starting line-ups for the big clubs of the time.Stepping straight into the hotbed of the NSL, for their next years of schooling, playing with seasoned players locally and from abroad.Now as the age of the players into the AIS has dropped to 15-16, these players now come out and continue to only play against kids their own age. Even if they move the A-League youth Team, which is mostly Under 18/19 players, they are left with a gap of 2-3 years waiting for the golden ticket to professional football.The FFA may scoff at “Old soccer”, “New football” tag lines and tweet furiously when we stun Laos, beating their chest at the pathway’s success, yet when the group of players of 2006 were receiving their “street” education at the NSL clubs, the resilience and mental strength is what drove them to successful careers in big leagues with big clubs.Today, a player goes overseas and when they have to work hard, put in the tough yards, overcome setbacks, the player is on the phone to head back to the A-League for a nice soft landing.We want better technical players, and I see the individual technical ability is far stronger than years gone by. But the question is, has this era of entitlement and protection, by closing the door to only a select few, diluted one of our football’s strongest and most admired traits?The NPL needs to be acknowledged and supported as an alternative pathway, with FFA working with them in developing into strong footballing schools, with Technical Directors who are specialists in Program Development, Methodology and long term player development. The scouting system locally is all based on convenance. Put them all in one place, all together so I don’t have to go visit clubs and listen to what is happening.I heard recently a Skillaroos team played games against a token NPL select of the same age.They played four times, with the non-selected players beating the Skillaroos on each and every occasion.Of the group of non-Skillaroos boys who briefly trained together and played together only one boy was asked to come into the program.FFA and Member Federations has created a bubble, which has been floating along while the rest keep working and training and dreaming, and sailing past them, with the attitude of I will show you, not what will you show me. Illuminating article, Fan Of Football. I think you are new here, but if nobody has said it, welcome to the forum, FOF. i was surprised that Italy, Holland and Belgium were having less underage success than France, Germany, Spain and Portugal? That is, if we define success as playing a decent brand of football.
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Decentric
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+x+xI think the Maty Ryan example is something we can learn a lot from. Obviously at this point he's not set the world on fire at Valencia, but to be fair to him, he's had injury problems and Valencia have been a trainwreck since he got there, which would have been hard to predict. The point is that he got to a champions league club in arguably the best league in the world at age 23 and the foundation of his career was playing 3 seasons in the a-league and then moving somewhere that he'd play first team football. Even if the Valencia deal hadn't come about, this path gave him a lot more options then if he'd gone to say England at 16 and not made the first team, only to return to Australia at 20 years old and have to start his career from there. I think this method is a lot more productive than throwing our most talented young players at the wall of European academies and hoping one sticks. It also has the effect of keeping our best talents here, thus impoving the quality of our league and by extension the quality of opposition our players are playing against. I like this - I think we need to keep improving our local development scene to a (hopefully) world class standard where it gets to the point where every player at the very least starts in the A-League system, at either junior or senior level. That should be the end goal. Agree with this.
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Mustang67
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U19's AFC qualification starts 15th Oct. Get through the group stages Uzbekistan, China and Tajikistan and face either Qatar, Japan, Yemen or Iran. This will be very tough. Should get through the group stages but the quarters????? Fingers crossed.
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Jonsnow
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Have they announced the squad yet? Can't find anything on FFA site
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Mustang67
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+xHave they announced the squad yet?Can't find anything on FFA site Not that I know of. If there anything like the u16's the squad was already in india for 4 days before the announced the squad. You would think that it should be announced soon as they would have to fly out in the next week or so.
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TheSelectFew
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+x+xHave they announced the squad yet?Can't find anything on FFA site Not that I know of. If there anything like the u16's the squad was already in india for 4 days before the announced the squad. You would think that it should be announced soon as they would have to fly out in the next week or so. Shockingly short notice tbh
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De-Jong
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Players notification went out yesterday. Up soon
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PastQ
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kaufusi
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http://www.fourfourtwo.com.au/news/young-socceroos-afc-u-19-squad-revealed-438497 The Young Socceroos squad has been announced for the AFC U-19 Championship 2016 in Bahrain from October 13-30.Fresh from winning the AFF U19 Championship in Hanoi last week, Young Socceroos head coach Ufuk Talay has named 24 players with one to be omitted.The players comprise of a mix of A-League contracted and overseas players.The only significant absentee from the AFF U19 Championship squad is Kye Rowles who is out with a hamstring injury.Talay said he was confident his team could take its impressive form from the AFF U19 Championship into the championship, which doubles as the qualifiers for next year’s FIFA U-20 World Cup.“It was great to win the AFF tournament and we’ll have a week in Dubai before we get to Bahrain which will be good to integrate the overseas players into the way we want to play,” he said.“The AFF Championship was a great experience and opportunity to get games under our belt, so it’s going to be a tough challenge in Bahrain but we know where we need to get to and we’ll work hard to get there.“At these tournaments you have to rely on all 23 players. We’ve got a lot of depth in positions and a lot of talent on the pitch so that’s an advantage and a lot of these players have also spent time in the national setup so they know they way we want to play.“There’s no excuse with who we have in our group, we’re really looking forward to the challenge.”The Australians are in Group D alongside Uzbekistan, China PR and Tajikistan for the AFC U-19 Championship Bahrain 2016. Young Socceroos squad – AFC U-19 Championship Bahrain 2016| Player | DOB | Club | | Keanu BACCUS | 7/06/98 | Western Sydney Wanderers FC | | Jackson BANDIERA | 16/04/98 | Western Sydney Wanderers FC | | George BLACKWOOD | 6/04/97 | Sydney FC | | Jake BRIMMER | 3/04/98 | Liverpool FC, England | | Joseph CHAMPNESS | 27/04/97 | Brisbane Roar FC | | Thomas DENG | 20/03/97 | PSV Eindhoven, Netherlands | | Patrick FLOTTMANN | 19/04/97 | Sydney FC | | Thomas GLOVER (gk) | 24/12/97 | Tottenham Hotspur, England | | Jordan HOLMES (gk) | 8/05/97 | AFC Bournemouth, England | | Joshua HOPE | 7/01/11 | Melbourne Victory | | Anthony KALIK | 5/11/97 | Hajduk Split, Croatia | | Steve KUZMANOVSKI | 4/01/97 | Melbourne City FC | | Tariq MAIA | 11/06/97 | Western Sydney Wanderers FC | | Daniel MARGUSH (gk) | 28/11/97 | Adelaide United | | George MELLS | 23/05/97 | Adelaide United | | William MUTCH | 27/02/98 | Sydney FC | | Connor O’TOOLE | 4/07/97 | Brisbane Roar FC | | Reno PISCOPO | 27/05/98 | Inter Milan, Italy | | Jayden PRASAD | 5/02/97 | Brisbane Roar FC | | Liam ROSE | 7/04/97 | Central Coast Mariners | | Lachlan SCOTT | 15/04/97 | Western Sydney Wanderers FC | | Mario SHABOW | 5/05/98 | Western Sydney Wanderers FC | | George TIMOTHEOU | 29/07/97 | Sydney FC | | Liam YOULLEY | 20/02/97 | Western Sydney Wanderers FC |
*One to be omitted
Will be good to see how the likes of Piscopo and brimmer fit in with the local boys.
I'm sure the likes of Panos weren't considered if they're pushing first team selections. Mostly seems to be players who'd only be missing youth team games for their clubs.
Rowles is a big loss though. Has usually been the rock in defence for this team, but with Deng and the SFC cb's there hopefully they can do the job!
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TheSelectFew
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De-Jong
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Mells and Rose are first team players and will miss A-League start.
Just watched Mells V Sydney good workout 45min.
Young lad left out lost concentration during games, but he is still young.
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ryan2008
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It would have been good to see O'Neill, but he's probably too crucial of a player for Burnley's squad.
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Jonsnow
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The 2 SYD FC lads diddnt play in semi or final ? I think it were Mutch Baccus OToole and Bandaiera in the last game , not sure ? Mutch is a gun at RB , Baccus was mom Imo
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TheSelectFew
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+xIt would have been good to see O'Neill, but he's probably too crucial of a player for Burnley's squad. No way should he get playing in england.
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Barca4Life
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+xIt would have been good to see O'Neill, but he's probably too crucial of a player for Burnley's squad. Honestly i dont see the hype on this player, just because he's part of a EPL side it doesnt mean he should be ahead of some of these players.
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Barca4Life
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The squad looks quite good on paper, a shame Kye Rowles had to be pulled out due to injury i thought he looked reasonable in the recent AFF Cup.
Interesting the likes of Jake Brimmer who did well for the joeys in afc u16 in 2014 but was also disappointing in the u17 world cup last year in the squad is included and the lad from Inter Milan is an interesting choice i wonder how these guys fit into the squad but it appears the midfield and attack looks stacked.
Not bad considering the likes of Arzani, Derrick and Armenakas from the joeys and O'Neill from Burnley and Demi Juric the brother of Tomi could have been in this squad also, so talent wise its quite good.
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TheSelectFew
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+xThe squad looks quite good on paper, a shame Kye Rowles had to be pulled out due to injury i thought he looked reasonable in the recent AFF Cup. Interesting the likes of Jake Brimmer who did well for the joeys in afc u16 in 2014 but was also disappointing in the u17 world cup last year in the squad is included and the lad from Inter Milan is an interesting choice i wonder how these guys fit into the squad but it appears the midfield and attack looks stacked. Not bad considering the likes of Arzani, Derrick and Armenakas from the joeys and O'Neill from Burnley and Demi Juric the brother of Tomi could have been in this squad also, so talent wise its quite good. Very true. The seniors look to be in good sted.
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Barca4Life
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Yeah thats true, the players from u18 coming through look real promising.
Any word on what the FFA are going to do with Tony Vidmar and the dutch fella from FFA COE from the joeys disastrous campaign? Jonsnow? JDB03? anyone?
Surely they facing the sack after that...
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Jonsnow
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Maybe a regroup , rethink the whole youth league structure ? Scrap the AIS ,most if not all national team players should be playing/ training for A league clubs or better Camps to be held every 2 months , under the watchful eye of JG and or AP if available , regular games and tounaments to be held both here and overseas How good would an invitational Asian u 15 or u17s comp be held here in Aus ? Japan South Korea China Iran Saudi Thai The list goes on , we got to think/ act different That's all
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