Davo, if what you're saying is true then it would also happen in the 9 week window when ratings are at their highest. This difference would be distinct and measurable. You would see a clear difference between one set of figures and the other. You would see figures that are simply unobtainable in previous circumstances

If what you are saying is occasional, minimal, and negligible - then it is purely speculative. Whether we reach 1k-2k extra people through surfing is moot compared to marquees, expansion, and FTA derbies which give clear wins and improvements. It could be a casual audience. It could be a coincidence. Either way its not worth a point of view with millions of dollars at stake in one decision vs another


And that's the bottom line

A shift in network will either give us a clear and measurable audience we can't currently get with SBS and haven't been able to get on SBS (This undeniable and undisputable average Aussie that only watches 3 stations which we can only reach with cross promotion or being on a major network) - Or it will give us speculative numbers that don't give us any real measurable benefit

So far you have only offered the latter. Speculation and creative interpretation about how the 175k we got in SBS's second season is worth 50k-100k more than the 175k they got in their first season - and proof enough that chasing 7, 9 or 10 is worth it in the long run

Not sure if this is a factor but with auto tune there seem to be multiples of the fta channels and yet only single versions of the sbs channels. So when surfing you are likely to come across the same fta product multiple times and often give up before reaching sbs. Not saying this is what happens on a large scale, just an observation.

can we cut out this pointless, self-opinionated, and very repetitive debate that is ruining this thread. one or two people are going around in circles

ENOUGH ALREADY

Mods, can you not step in, the 100 year war was over quicker?

Fair point.

We'll be back next week.

I thought so. some of it was interesting but once it hit name calling and repetition is was all a bit pointless

Fair point

Foxtel redundancies follow US$11m loss
Foxtel will cut jobs after recording an US$11m loss in the first quarter of 2016 and the decision to close streaming service Presto

Yesterday’s financial results for News Corp revealed that the Presto decision cost the company US$21mYesterday’s financial results for News Corp revealed that the Presto decision cost the company US$21m, with Foxtel reporting a US$11m loss for the quarter, which includes write-downs by News in the value of “finite-lived tangible assets” of the company.

“Foxtel’s strategy is to focus its resources on acquiring the best content from Australia and around the world, delivering an exceptional customer experience, and investing in great technology and products,” said Tonagh.

“To help achieve this strategy we have conducted a review of aspects of our business to ensure that Foxtel is as efficient and agile as possible. In particular, we have looked to simplify structures, clarify reporting lines, remove areas of duplication and overlap, and cease activities that do not assist in advancing our strategy.

“As a result of this review, we have determined that a number of structural changes need to be made in the business and this has resulted in some employees being informed this week that their positions will be made redundant.

More at https://mumbrella.com.au/foxtel-redundancies-follow-us11m-loss-407112

This was my concern going into this. How much money does Foxtel have left to spend on this? Especially considering how much Foxtel spent on AFL, and NRL plus other sports they have. They lost a lot of customers thanks to the EPL debacle and had to do a deal with BeIN, something we don't know what that entails. So my concern is what money is left? 

hope the clubs see most of this cash

I wouldnt worry about how much money is left.
Most big businesses,especially plc's plan based on what they want ,not on what they have.If they don't have enough money ,they get it ,whether that be by borrowing,selling shares or fancy accounting.Writing off big losses is commonplace.Running at a massive loss for years is commonplace.
The main objective is to give a clear path to future profits.If Football is part of that plan for future profits ,then Fox or whoever, will go for it and find the money.If it isn't ,like Presto or Masters it will be mercilessly cut.

@ crimsoncruso

Agreed. The loss is the result of a write down anyway (haven't looked at the results but their operations are likely still profitable given this is a moderate corporate loss by corporate standards).

There's always been a feeling that they overpaid for NRL and AFL with the lingering question being could they afford not to though?

Can they afford to lose the HAL? Can they afford to overpay? I'd say yes to the first one and no to the second - they don't want to lose the HAL but they can't afford to overpay either.

Probably points to some form of hybrid deal coming up between Fox, BeIN and an FTA - I doubt fox would want Optus to corner the two prize assets of football so I'd think they're cutting deals behind the scenes

I actually think this line puts rest some of your fear:

"Foxtel’s strategy is to focus its resources on acquiring the best content from Australia and around the world"

I'd assume the rights to the A-league is of utmost importance as sport is literally the only thing keeping them together. I'm sort of surprised that they have let go of Presto rather than investing further to shore up some of the programs on there for the future, as streaming on demand is definitely the future (sort of the present too tbh) for tv shows and movies and no doubt sport too down the line.

I think the only thing keeping the foxtel model together is the sport. All other channels are full of programs that one can already easily access via streaming services. Paying for a package for channels is becoming redundant in itself. 

My only thought is that perhaps they are going to move their setup so it's all on demand so it runs more like Netflix, but then also have the sporting component which will be live. If they continue using the same top boxes with shitty old school lineal programming then they will be in for a world of pain and could easily become their downfall. 

But in relation to money to spend for A-league rights, if they want to keep subscribers onboard they MUST shore up the rights or there will be a drop in subs. I don't believe anyone now chooses to sign up to foxtel for the movies or entertainment channels like they use to, it's all about the sport and everything else is just extra for filler up content for the kids.

Nailed it. With streaming services offering instant access to programmes it just doesn't cut it with the average punter to set their alarms and watch their favourite programme in a 45 minute window on a Tuesday. The only form of content this works for is live programming where the network and customer cannot dictate the starting time. If Foxtel isn't throwing its wallet at every sport they can they'll be shocked at how quickly they get Kodak'd.

Yep exactly.

I think they were truly shocked that they lost the epl rights due to the blind auction but they wo t have the same risk with aleague as they get last rights to bid and match the offer. And i think they will most certainly offer and do so in a big way. whether it means doing a deal with Bein Sports whos on fox anyhow is to be seen, but they certainly wont allow optus to win the rights no matter how much they throw at it. 

Been thinking and I guess the media deal could go 3 or 4 different ways

1] All on Fox like Rugby .... can't see happening but always possible.

2] Commercial FTA, plus Fox, plus a Telco, plus international rights ??? ... comes with positive News coverage ...

3] Optus, plus a commercial FTA, plus international rights.... will get very negative News coverage.

4] BeIN Sports, plus a commercial FTA, plus international rights... will get very negative News coverage..

My understanding is FFA want a commercial FTA channel and if they could get two games per week then they are more than happy...

Interesting to consider whats better ...

Just saying more for thinking that any knowledge of real dollars...

Fox only 160 million.

Fox/ 9 / Telstra ... 80 million ... two games on 9 with 12 teams

Optus / 10 / BeIN sport .... 115 million ... two games on 10 with 12 teams...

Which way to go..... how important is / would the News positive / negative  media coverage be in the long term.. 

MASSIVE REPEAT MASSIVE NEWS ON OPTUS NUMBERS.

From Fairfax

The rights to English Premier League soccer delivered 107,000 new customers to Optus in the three months to September 30.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/media-and-marketing/optus-mobile-revenue-expected-to-fall-despite-boost-in-numbers-20161110-gsm4el.html


I think that would mean at least 200K Football folk would walk if FFA went to Optus.

Pworr. That's big news and great numbers. Foxtel are still suffering from this.

Some rough calculations.

Let's assume 100,000 people joined optus because of the premier league
Optus paid $150 million for 3yrs worth of premier league
Which equals around $1500 per new subscriber
Let's assume optus keeps those 100,000 subscribers for the 3 years,
that means $500 per year or about $42 per month.

Can optus earn $42/month per person?

@ benchwarmer

Optus mobile average revenue per user is $44/month so you're pretty close. That would result in $57m a year revenue.

Also remember these numbers only include mobile, if they attracted another 100k broadband users at say $80/month that would be another $96m/year

With Optus splashing the cash for EPL then I see them doing the same for a league. Having both a league and EPL together would be the way to go . They have some smart operators at Singtel. Some of our domestic operators should start to open their eyes to football now.

And this is only a few months into the EPL deal. There will be a lot of people waiting until their contracts with other providers are up before switching. Expect the figure to keep climbing for the next 18 months.

But how many people are going to go to the hassle of changing ISP so they can watch football? I certainly wouldn't, especially when Optus are known to be pretty bad customer support wise.

Hopefully they eventually introduce an on demand service similar to what Newscorp provided.

If Optus end up with HAL,im going to switch for sure.
Let's not forget Telstra doing a deal with Foxtel to get HAL.
$100 mill is not so outrageous anymore.Add in two more teams and and thats $120 mill.Based on $20mill per game for the season.

Im with you I will follow the league.

You don't need to change ISP for the EPL. 

I got a simple mobile broadband modem on a plan to watch the EPL @$30/month

And remember this is not just to make money but increase market share \ penetration. After having this for a few months I am planning to change my mobile plan when my current codaphone plan ends. Never would have thought if iptus until they had the EPL.

Also from next year they will start charging people per month (unless they are on a decent plan). If they can keep enough of these people happy (and maybe add some more with say the a-league) they will be in a very good position.

I'd rather just go to the pub than change ISP. 

So you invite your mates over and everybody crowds around the iPad to watch the game?

The simplicity of Fox is you either have it or you don't. The complexity with Optus is ISP, poor bandwidth for regional areas, and existing contracts

If the A League leaves Fox, then the one game a week on FTA is all I'm left with

No. We can watch it on my TV. I just chrome cast it like I do with Netflix (in HD for no extra charge like foxtel)

And I use my NBN internet with TPG. Once you join optus you get a login and how you watch is your choice.

I get that foxtel is easier. By its only easier if the main person in the houeshold is willing to pay for it. U don't take into consideration those without foxtel. Which is actually something like 70% of the country (and increasing by the looks of things)

Your not listening mate. You don't have to change ISP to watch the EPL on you TV in HD.

Chromecast. Its a $40 investment at JB HI that let's you stream content (Netflix Stan YouTube and Optus sport) using your own ISP (in my case TPG nbn) straight to your TV.

I pay $30 per month for a mobile broadband plan. Which I use when I run out of mobile data. And just watch the EPL on my 52 inch TV in HD of an NBN internet plan I already had. Its really not that hard.

Believe me I am anything but a tech head. I had to look up ISP to know what everyone was crying about.