Sometimes, journalists make up quotes and put them in articles. (I know it's happened to me). IF Chris Taylor was quoted correctly (and it's a big IF, seeing as it's a quote in the Herald Sun), then he is speaking absolute rubbish. He's arguing that A-League teams don't give young players a chance, well he obviously didn't see the Mariners last year!. If he wants young players to get a chance, then he probably won't want promotion/relegation, as when a team is trying to avoid relegation, the last thing a manager will do is play young inexperienced players in preference to older experienced players.  The quote also suggests "There's players in my team that could play in the A League," "The A-League for me is an environment that's set up where they recycle teams and most of it's the players and the coaches. Then he suggests Marcus Schroen should get picked up. Hang on a minute, Schroen has had previous A-League experience as a youth player at City (when they were Heart), so he's essentially contradicting himself. 
The quote is however right in suggesting older guys who cloud be average journeymen players will be more likely to be promoted if promotion/relegation was brought in. "Then look at the other side of the coin where you have someone like Milos (Lujic, South Melbourne's Golden Boot winner) who earns a good wage with us and a good wage in his job ... are you going to take him to the A-League and offer him $55,000 (as a first contract)?"

The simple truth is promotion/relegation does nothing to bring on young players and is more likely to stifle the use and development of young players.

What promotion/relegation does do is allow for development of lower level clubs in terms of off-field matters such as finances/crowd support, but please Mr Taylor don't try to make false arguments that it helps the development of young players when it plainly does exactly the opposite.

Schroen isn't a very good eg as he hasn't had senior a league experience, he isn't a recycled player.

Anyhow I think this rant probably has more to do with Taylor himself, he has won 2 premiers plates, 2 championships and the dockerty cup in the last 3 seasons, and yet he is no closer to ever coaching at the highest level, he probably feels the only way he could coach at that level is if he got promoted with south, as far as the 10 current franchises go he is unfortunately well off the radar. The fact he doesn't have any fox sports connections drops him further down the pecking order.

Let's face it we all know how it works these days,

Was he watching a different CCM to everyone else? Uskok, Bray and Stella all entered the A-League for the first time last season from the NPLV while Buhagiar came up from NPL NSW2. All in all, the average age was under 25 - how many more younger players did he want CCM to field?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/09/24/efl-plans-a-league-three-with-expansion-to-106-league-clubs/

THE REMARKABLE STORY OF BUNDESLIGA MINNOWS DARMSTADT

we dont need stories like darmstaadt.

we have franchises. history is for chumps.

ROADMAP FOR INDIAN FOOTBALL: AIFF MUST RUN THE RULE BY FIFA FOR CLOSED LEAGUE
Rahul Bali
04:49INDIASHARE
0 AIFF Media
The Indian FA needs to seek approval from the world governing body for football with regards to conducting a closed league…

The Asian Football Confederation (AFC) general secretary, Dato Windsor advised the All India Football Federation (AIFF) and Football Sports Development Limited (FSDL) officials that they need to seek a special permission from FIFA in order to have a top division league with no avenue of promotion and relegation.

It was mentioned that the likes of USA, Australia and Philippines have been given special permission by FIFA to conduct a closed league.

India would need to follow suit in order to ensure that the Indian Super League (ISL), which is slated to be the country’s premier football league in 2017, would continue to enjoy the luxury of having no relegation or promotion.

Gianni Infantino on Roadmap for Indian football: I’m sure compromises will be found

Windsor also mentioned that the ISL clubs will have to fulfil the club licensing criterion, which includes the financial norms, and that having six foreign players in the starting eleven of the top division league wouldn’t be a cause for concern.

http://m.goal.com/s/en-india/news/136/india/2016/09/29/27995512/roadmap-for-indian-football-aiff-must-run-the-rule-by-fifa?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.au%2F

So you need permission from FIFA. You can't just have no pro rel and say the US doesn't do it we don't do it either as some seem to think.

"EFL sides also decided not to allow Celtic, Rangers or Premier League B teams into any new professional structure."

LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL

-PB

Crowd violence mars Million Pound Game

Lack of relegation will be key in sale of Glasgow and Edinburgh, SRU believes

New Zealand Rugby receptive to ideas about how to improve provincial competition

HAMISH BIDWELLLast updated 18:01, October 28 2016

• 61

.......................
Another regular criticism of the competition is that the two tiers mean half the teams begin without a hope of winning the title. Winning the second division - or championship - still earns you a trophy of course, but the reality is you're still only the eighth best province in the country.Besides, NZR are quite fond of the additional intrigue that things such as promotion-relegation provide."In reality we see a lot of excitement and intensity in the championship playoffs as well. One of the good things about the current model is teams eight to 14, most of them are still in the hunt with one or two weeks to go to be in the playoffs and to play for a championship," said Lancaster.The way the whole season is structured, two tiers also enables NZR to get things done and dusted in the 10 weeks they have available to them, he added."The current model has a lot of pros and it's a well thought out model and it works for a lot of people. But there's no perfect model and there are some real constraints that sit around the competition, in terms of the number of weeks, when it starts, when it has to finish."I don't think anyone's at the point of saying the current model doesn't work. But there's enough people saying let's have a look at it and check if there is an alternative that might be worth exploring and we're open to that."It's the business side of things that is driving talk about format changes."What we're hearing from some of the provincial unions is that commercially there are some concerning trends, so we're open to that and it's timely at the end of a competition that we start that process," said Lancaster.NZR are already working with the unions to ensure they all make a buck, but it's not easy. Empty stadiums don't just look bad, they cost people money.And if it were simply a dollars and cents issue, then perhaps a more concerted effort might be made to spruce provincial footy up. But while it continues to provide quality players for Super and international rugby, NZR will remain reasonably content."It is a good competition. I don't think anyone would say from a rugby perspective it doesn't work. It does," Lancaster said."It produces high-quality match-ups week-in and week-out and it is a good product...it is a really fundamental part of our player pathway and competition framework and nobody is questioning the value of the competition, that's for sure."But "it has to work commercially" and there's the rub.That's why NZR remain prepared to entertain ideas about what could be done to enhance what exists now."Will it change? I don't know. But we have an open mind," said Lancaster.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/provincial/85852060/new-zealand-rugby-receptive-to-ideas-about-how-to-improve-provincial-competition

Bristol Rovers, relegated out of the Football League & screwed over by a Supermarket Chain.

Now 2 consecutive promotions later, aiming for Division 1

Interview with Passionate new owner, who used to follow Chelsea in the Championship.

...............Qadi has been enjoying football ever since his father took him to see Chelsea in the Second Division in the 1980s. Hooked from day one, he was soon travelling the country watching David Speedie, Pat Nevin and Kerry Dixon, and tells some terrific stories about that era and beyond, including the afternoon he eluded Roman Abramovich’s bodyguards to have his photograph taken with the Russian.......................  

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/31/his-bodyguard-looked-like-he-wanted-to-kill-me-abramovichs-german-ambush

Support for relegation in MLS remains high but don't hold your breath
A report this week says 88% of US fans back ‘pro-rel’ but a lack of any clear plan – or willingness on behalf of owners – remains an obstacle

If pro-rel does take hold it would most likely be tested heavily in lower leagues first. Photograph: Jeffrey McWhorter/AP
Tom Dart
Tuesday 22 November 2016 21.00 AEDT Last modified on Tuesday 22 November 2016 21.02 AEDT

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In a more conventional soccer universe, Indy Eleven might be preparing for a 2017 season against the likes of the Los Angeles Galaxy and Seattle Sounders. In only their third campaign, the team from Indianapolis finished second in the second-tier North American Soccer League: runners-up in the standings to the New York Cosmos, who also beat them on penalties in the championship playoff.

With average attendances of about 8,500, the club is hoping to get approval for an 18,500-seat stadium. In a couple of years it is not hard to imagine Indy boasting a major-league quality team in a major league-quality stadium, with only one thing missing: Major League Soccer. In American sport, improvement does not mean that the only way is up.

“We’ve always said we want to play at the highest level possible,” said Tom Dunmore, Indy’s senior vice-president of marketing and operations. “We want to have the best standard on and off the pitch. We’re obviously part of a system where you can’t earn that through merit on the field so we’re working to grow the NASL. That’s our focus.”

A place in MLS is not won through sporting success but is a strategic outcome based on lobbying, location and spending power; the result of a cold-eyed business plan, rather than prowess in the penalty area. When New York added a second team to join the Red Bulls it was not the Cosmos, NASL champions in three of the past four years - but New York City FC, a new entity built by the billionaire backers of Manchester City.


Do Keane and Gerrard's departures spell the end of LA Galaxy's Galácticos era?
Read more
Whether soccer in the US wants or needs promotion and relegation is a debate that pulses as one of the pressure points of operating a global sport in North America, where some fans envy the dramas elsewhere but major leagues have heavily centralised structures, clubs are franchises and professional soccer’s rulers have an aversion to risk informed by memories of the old NASL’s rise and fall in the 1970s and 80s.

The topic was given fresh impetus by Monday’s release of a report from Deloitte which contends that reworking the US soccer pyramid to introduce promotion and relegation could stimulate changes that would benefit the sport from top to bottom.

The report argues that it would increase attention, translating to higher attendance and broadcast viewing figures; force owners to work harder to improve their teams and infrastructure; battle-harden players in a way that would aid development all the way to national team level; bring the US in line with overseas leagues and lead to stronger structures and more investment from the grassroots up.

The study – commissioned by Silva International Investments, whose head, Riccardo Silva, co-owns the NASL’s Miami FC – includes a survey of US fans which found that 88% believe that “pro-rel” would boost American club soccer.

“I do think that for the game to realise its full potential in the US, promotion and relegation feels like part of the solution,” said Dan Jones of Deloitte’s Sports Business Group. “We very deliberately haven’t put a timeline on it because there’s a lot of practical detail to be worked out as to how you would actually go about implementing it.”

That would include stabilising and organising the lower leagues and creating a compensation package palatable to MLS clubs who endure relegation, as well as figuring out how to handle the increasing number of lower-league teams affiliated to MLS sides.

But with expansion fees now in excess of $100m, providing a key revenue generator for a league that last year claimed to be losing money, it is hard to imagine MLS would give away spaces for free. And the commissioner, Don Garber, dismissed the concept as recently as this month.

“Charleston Battery has won four USL championships so I suppose in one way if you look at it we could have been promoted four times,” said Andrew Bell, whose own career trajectory is a testament to American social mobility: he started off as a taxi driver after emigrating to South Carolina from England, joined the team in 1999 as a play-by-play announcer and was named president in 2008.

The Battery, of the third-level United Soccer League, have one of the best stadiums in the lower echelons and last year beat Houston Dynamo of MLS in a pre-season friendly. Bell knows the pain of relegation and the joy of promotion: he is a boyhood fan of Reading FC. But he does not think the US is ready for it.

“I think there’s a realism that it’s really not going to happen any time soon, in my opinion. Maybe I’m wrong but I just can’t see how we could change the system where that could be possible,” he said. “We’ve been playing since 1993, MLS has been playing since 1996, it’s really not that long. So maybe in the future – it’s going to be the long-term future – there’s a chance that it could change and we could see that. But I don’t think we’re really at that mature level yet.”

With MLS on a solid footing and out of its teenage years, though, some believe that continued progress requires dramatic change, rather than a cautious ethos that has fostered incremental growth.

“There is an incredible market for pro soccer in the US. It is presently reined in by an uncompromising major league system that served its purpose well during the initial phase but 20 years later needs to evolve as it is now holding the growth back,” said Jerome de Bontin, the former general manager of the Red Bulls, by email. “Soccer fans like the European-style pure merit system. US TV audiences of European leagues are there to demonstrate that the US fans like the competitiveness of those leagues. The US soccer fan is not different from the European one. He or she aspires to the same quality and competitiveness of games. The MLS playoff attendance and TV ratings demonstrate that currently there is very little interest in the playoff system that’s in place, which by the way, MLS has changed many times over the past twenty years, without ever finding a formula that works.”

If MLS does ever adopt pro-rel, it would likely only happen once the concept has proven successful in the lower echelons. A test case is the United Premier Soccer League, an amateur competition in California, Arizona, Colorado, Nevada and Idaho with about 50 teams. It will debut pro-rel internally in 2017.

“We have some very good teams that have potential to be higher-level teams in the future,” said the UPSL commissioner, Yan Skwara. Promotion will be based on a combination of on-field performance and off-field minimum standards, such as venue size.

If it is popular, teams might one day transit between tiers, Skwara said, with a goal “to connect the dots not only with just the clubs but with the leagues. The system here is very fragmented and there are a handful of leagues and now it’s to the point where it’s a little bit confusing … Maybe it can help bring it all together in the future and maybe not, maybe everybody kind of stays their own course.”

Had the governing body, the United States Soccer Federation, taken a firmer grip of the structure long ago, Skwara said, a more clearly-defined structure that would have better facilitated pro-rel might exist. “You have the wild wild west as far as leagues go. You have a bunch of businesses that are set up to own and operate soccer leagues,” he said.

“There’s nothing wrong with that but that’s just the reality, that you have business opportunities to own and operate a league. If you want to go and set up a league tomorrow you can do that, it’s not that difficult. That’s not the case in England or Germany or Poland, where the federation pretty much controls everything.”

Ultimately, of course, money will talk. Jones, of Deloitte, questions the notion that American dealmakers fear volatility. “One of the points that some people have made to me is, ‘well, US investors would not go for a system with the risk of relegation’. You look at it, and the fact that US investors invested in Derby County, Bologna, and Swansea, and Crystal Palace. So that doesn’t say to me that US investors are unwilling to invest in a soccer system that carries the risk of relegation,” he said.

“It somehow just feels very in line with the American way of doing things that there would be that opportunity: that if you’re willing to commit time and money and talent and ambition into doing something, you could push that on as far as those factors will take you rather than hitting a false sort of glass ceiling quite early.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/nov/22/mls-promotion-relegation-pro-rel-soccer

This is it, for Australia as well

The topic was given fresh impetus by Monday’s release of a report from Deloitte which contends that reworking the US soccer pyramid to introduce promotion and relegation could stimulate changes that would benefit the sport from top to bottom.

The report argues that it would increase attention, translating to higher attendance and broadcast viewing figures; force owners to work harder to improve their teams and infrastructure; battle-harden players in a way that would aid development all the way to national team level; bring the US in line with overseas leagues and lead to stronger structures and more investment from the grassroots up.

Winner of Official 442 Comment of the day Award -  10th April 2017

Provisional Division II status the best possible scenario for NASL, USL

Games ending in ties remain one of the many things that confuse non-soccer watching Americans about the beautiful game. So, perhaps it is apropos that after weeks of deliberation, delays and discussion, the United States Soccer Federation announced that both the NASL and USL have been given provisional Division II status.

Certainly, there are challenges ahead for both league -- and the federation -- to implement the standards needed for full-time Division II status. But, what is clear is that this was the best option for U.S. Soccer, and that the federation deserves credit for making the decision that provides the best chance for both leagues moving forward.

In order to understand why this is a good decision, consider the alternate scenarios:

Scenario 1: NASL awarded sole Division II status

USL believes that it put in in an application clearly deserving of D-II status, and would have felt aggrieved if outright denied that.

“This work started a while ago, and the last few months have been very busy,” Jake Edwards, president of USL, told FourFourTwo USA. “The federation conducted the audits and we’ve been finding solutions which make sense.” Having gone through painstakingly putting together the application, Edwards feels the USL “meets league standards.”

U.S. Soccer requires each Division II team to have a stadium with a minimum 5,000-seat capacity. NASL teams meet this requirement, while some USL teams do not. James Poling of News Oklahoma reports that “at least four clubs” in USL do not meet the stadium requirements.

Another potential outcome of this scenario was the idea that USL may bring litigation against USSF. “We’ve never publicly said that,” Edwards said. And while USL would have been “disappointed” at not getting D-II status, Edwards denies litigation was likely.

Scenario 2: USL awarded sole Division II status

Beyond the USL perspective, U.S. requires 12 teams for a D2 league beyond its 6th season. NASL would not have met that criteria, having only eight teams as of now for its spring season; USL boasts 30 teams.

TARGETED ALLOCATION

While this scenario would have been beneficial to USL, it likely would have brought an end to the NASL.

According to sources, the futures of NY Cosmos, Jacksonville Armada and Fort Lauderdale Strikers hinge on NASL attaining Division II status. Additionally, sources suggest that had NASL been given D3 status, some of the stable NASL franchises such as Indy Eleven and Puerto Rico FC would have questioned their futures with the league.

Scenario 3: USL and NASL awarded co-Division III status

Based solely on U.S. Soccer requirements, this was the most pedantic solution. However, as an optic for American soccer, this would have been embarrassing for USSF to have a first division and third division, but no second division.

Additional questions about why U.S. Soccer did not address these issues earlier would continue to manifest. Both NASL sources as well as Edwards were frustrated by the delay in proceedings. “Several votes have been postponed over last year; until we got to the final deadline on Friday. The final presentation was made around 5 p.m., and we were notified around 7 p.m.”

It’s also important to note that if the future of NASL teams truly was contingent on attaining Division II status, even a scenario of dual third-division leagues would have ended the NASL.

Scenario 4: A combined NASL/USL D-II league

While FourFourTwo USA understands that this was discussed in earlier negotiations, given the complicated history of the leagues and franchises, it remains a non-viable option.

What it all means

Awarding both the NASL and USL second-division status has already proven to be a shrewd move by U.S. Soccer.

In a press release, NASL confirmed an 8-team league comprising of Indy Eleven, FC Edmonton, Puerto Rico FC, Miami FC, North Carolina FC, expansion San Francisco Deltas, Jacksonville Armada FC and incredibly, the New York Cosmos. On Saturday afternoon, the New York Cosmos – a team mired in financial difficulties and thought to have been no more as of the end of 2016 – confirmed that they would be active in the 2017 NASL season.

U.S. Soccer will expect the each league to meet requirements consistently in the future.

The next question is: Where does each league go from here? U.S. Soccer president, Sunil Gulati, said in a statement that “U.S. Soccer will create an internal working group that will work with each league to set a pathway to meet the full requirements for division two and allow for the larger goal of creating a sustainable future."

Edwards explicated on the immediate vision for the league: “In our application, there were few areas where we fell short of D-II status. A few stadiums are below capacity.” Edwards added that those owners have already presented plans to either expand stadia or upgrade to new venues. Additionally, Edwards expects to have three new teams and a “major broadcast deal”; previously reported to be an ESPN and Sirius XM FC deal.

Edwards also clarified that suggestions that MLS was blocking promotion of USL to D-II were wide of the mark. “They’ve been tremendous partners,” Edwards clarified adding that MLS reserve teams were, “fully committed to meeting D2 standards.”

The meaning of divisions themselves, in the absence of promotion-relegation may, at first, seem rather pointless. But, there are clear financial considerations to being in higher divisions. In a conversation with Brian Straus of Sports Illustrated, Edwards explained the importance of D-II status,

“You’re talking about perception and value for the clubs and the owners, an impact on franchise values, an impact on revenue streams, an impact on commercial activity and media activity—media rights, sponsorship value in the marketplace and marketing perception of second division or third. Those are real tangible benefits for teams and their validation of the fact that the team is making that investment and operating at that level.”

While USL and Edwards are buoyant about the promotion to D-II status, the future of NASL, while immediately secure, remains unclear. NASL did not respond to requests for an interview today.

But FourFourTwo USA understands that the exact hierarchical structure within NASL remains unclear. North Carolina FC owner Steve Malik, not commissioner Bill Peterson, was quoted in Friday’s press release. While that might be coincidental, it is important to note that Jeff Rueter of Fifty Five.One reported that NASL’s last round of negotiations were conducted without Mr. Peterson.

Additionally, while NASL named the New York Cosmos and Jacksonville as active teams for 2017, both teams have challenges to navigate to be ready in time for the anticipated spring kickoff. Concomitantly, Fort Lauderdale Strikers, not named as one of the eight active NASL teams, are close to new ownership -- widely reported to be the PSG Academy Florida. However, sources close to the club suggest the sale is yet to be finalized, and while it is expected, the ownership group is currently not interested in fielding a team in 2017.

NASL’s future is also heavily reliant on successful expansion franchises -- Atlanta, Detroit, and San Diego among the reported cities -- joining the league and bringing the number of teams to 12; as required by NASL.

The difference between basic and translational science is the former allows derivation of causation by using a reductionist perspective, whereas, the latter is a better representation of the complex interactions of the real world. Similarly, while supporters of one league, one agenda (Pro/Rel) or one club may have desired a simple, clear-cut decision from USSF, given the circumstances, that was not possible.

Yes, this decision is clearly a bandage; the word “provisional” suggests the instability of the situation. But, U.S. Soccer has ensured that, for now, teams won’t disband, players and staff won’t lose jobs and American soccer does not step backwards.

That’s no tie -- it’s a victory.

More features from FourFourTwo USA

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/provisional-division-ii-status-best-possible-scenario-nasl-usl

The meaning of divisions themselves, in the absence of promotion-relegation may, at first, seem rather pointless. But, there are clear financial considerations to being in higher divisions. In a conversation with Brian Straus of Sports Illustrated, Edwards explained the importance of D-II status,

"You’re talking about perception and value for the clubs and the owners, an impact on franchise values, an impact on revenue streams, an impact on commercial activity and media activity—media rights, sponsorship value in the marketplace and marketing perception of second division or third. Those are real tangible benefits for teams and their validation of the fact that the team is making that investment and operating at that level.”

We unique

Does promotion and relegation really foster competition?

nike-football.ashx

YOU would be hard-pressed to find anyone who disagreed with the notion that competition is the lifeblood of sport.

Consider European football over the last 25 years, where “financial doping” has arguably created unsurpassed aesthetic spectacles through the concentration of megastar talent but – Leicester City’s miracle notwithstanding – has largely killed surprises, and thus restricted true competition to a smattering of clubs in each league.

Competition can mean many things, of course. It can be the competition for places within an organisation, which pushes people to raise their standards, while competition between teams has the same standard-raising effect. Yet — and here, seemingly, lies a paradox — the competitive drive, such as seen in the previous example of European football, doesn’t necessarily contribute to the overall competitiveness of a sporting culture, or “ecosystem”.

In other words, competitiveness — at least not in all its senses and frames of reference — might not be quite the unequivocal virtue that it’s often assumed to be. (Recent events concerning my own club have borne this out, more of which below.) And attempts to stimulate greater competitiveness through the device of promotion and relegation don’t necessarily serve to produce a stronger or “healthier” sporting culture, either.

Take Test cricket, which, if not quite yet on the endangered-species list, certainly has enough right-minded individuals concerned with its health. A recent attempt to inject the endless cycle of bilateral series with greater meaning and context saw the ICC float the idea of a two-divisional structure, to be split seven and five, with promotion and relegation at the end of a three-year cycle. Ostensibly the plan was rejected because it was felt that the stigma of locking one of the traditional powers out of the party would do the exact opposite of generating interest in the Test format.

Our question is: does removing the element of jeopardy have an impact on the competitiveness of the cricket? Would the standard be lower without the sanction for “failure”?

It is beneath the professional game that the dynamics of promotion and relegation, in combination with the increasingly deleterious influence of money (in the form of player payments), is having the most destabilising effects, chafing slowly at the grass roots binding the cricketing ecosystem together. In theory, the pyramid structure should increase competitiveness and thus help with Raising the Standard, the title given to the ECB’s blueprint for the overhaul of club cricket at the turn of the century. In practice, however, it often tempts clubs to take short cuts with money, shaking the system up all right, but far too hard. Players’ egos get inflated by desperate captains offering them £63.50 a game and a pint per wicket.

The increased player traffic starts to erode teams’ identities, then clubs’ identities, perhaps leading to resentment and demoralisation among volunteers. Some of the soul – the community that underpins it all – is inevitably sucked from the game.


It would be remiss to generalise too much from one’s own experience, and the situation across the country’s patchwork of leagues is far from uniform, but in my own league — which in 2006 expanded from 24 to 48 teams (playing in four “symmetrical” divisions, the 2nd XI’s fate following that of the 1st XI), and in 2016 went to a ladder structure of nine divisions, with promotion and relegation for all — it’s highly debatable whether things have improved since all local clubs were sucked into its pyramid. Indeed, far from concentrating talent at the top, now it’s common for Premier League standard cricketers to turn out for an ambitious fourth- or fifth-tier club, if the money’s right and “the project” is appealing (and their ego is sated by easy runs).

Perhaps, then, rather than promotion and relegation per se, what matters is having the optimal amount: just enough to inculcate competitiveness and ward off complacency, not so much that it induces panic over free fall.

Without promotion and relegation, or with it restricted to two divisions, would the standard inevitably be lower? Is the cricket weaker in the Lancashire League, where the same 14 clubs — including Burnley, alma mater of James Anderson and decent county pros such as Michael Brown and Jonathan Clare over the past two decades — play each other year in, year out? Do they lack sufficient motivation to generate that fierce competitiveness? Isn’t it sufficient for teams to be incentivised to win (for pride, for glory) without them also having the fear of slipping down the structure and into irrelevance, anxiety over which in turn leads to all the distortions of the culture, to all the money spent to project strength, to be seen to be ambitious?

Often teams begin the slide down the league through no fault of their own. It can be because the players they have nurtured are cherry-picked. In the case of Oulton— a well-run village club near mine and with which we are in the process of merging — it is because they were unable to put out the stipulated number of junior sides across the age groups. Consequently, they have been punished with successive demotions, despite finishing mid-table in Division Two, then fourth in Division Three, the latter proving the final straw for some players, whose reluctant exodus was averted by the proposal of this merger.

In Oulton’s ecosystem, the increasingly fierce competition for resources (young cricketers) has led bigger clubs in their vicinity — ours included, from certain perspectives — towards aggressively proactive recruitment, selling themselves as centres of coaching excellence. Little Billy’s parents see all this, notice the struggle at his own club, and whisk him off to the apparently thriving club down the road. The trickle becomes a torrent, and it soon becomes impossible for the club to fulfil the league-mandated criteria. And so, despite having excellent facilities and a group of tightly knit players — a real, enduring community of committed cricketers — a good club is forced by red tape and the prospect of relegation freefall into such drastic action.

There are no simple answers here, but it should not be automatically assumed that using relegation and promotion as a means to engender competitiveness necessarily creates a stronger culture, or that it inevitably raises the standard. In this regard, perhaps the most progressive model is provided, ironically enough, by American sports — veritable socialist islands in a sea of capitalist self-interest, with their conference system, and administrative interventions from the draft system to salary caps, and revenue-sharing, all designed to safeguard the competitiveness, and thus ongoing appeal, of their sports. — ESPNCricinfo

http://www.chronicle.co.zw/does-promotion-and-relegation-really-foster-competition/

Still no evidence that pro/rel would encourage use and development of younger players. in fact, looking at the teams in relegation battles in big leagues, it seems many will be aiming to bring in 'experienced players' during the january transfer window. Pro/rel, seems to limit the chances of younger players getting a game.

I'm of the same mind. Pro/rel seems to promote the hiring of journeymen players who will at least be safe and not blow matches. Who wants to risk some inexperienced youngster when millions of dollars/relegation are on the line? (In fact, I think the failure for Holgier to promote youth is exactly due to that sort of mentality - why risk a new youngster when Luca$ is still doing okay and most likely won't let you down).

To use a blasphemous comparison (by 442 standards), in the NRL and AFL you see that once teams are likely to finish in the bottom half of the ladder, they start to "blood" all their youngsters and rebuild for next year. If anything, it is the safety of no relegation that provides the freedom to take risks on youth and think more long-term.

This is not to say we should never have P/R, but the "introducing youth" angle just isn't one of the reasons.

I am open for the debate and try to post positive and negative articles in relation to it.

But, don't AFL clubs bomb matches to get better draft picks. Not entirely similar circumstances.

Won't be long before AU, Nix & CCM start preparing for next year, getting a hop on the rest.

Maybe the NRL is the better example. I don't know AFL well enough (in fact I can't stand it). Blooding youngsters definitely happens in league though due to the safety of a guaranteed spot in the comp next year.

Yes it is, it creates firstly an entire division which is entirely focused on Australian talent and is a source for first div clubs to actually loan there younger players too. Younger players also cost far less so the smaller clubs will rely on them firstly because of that. But the biggest reason is they can be a source of success in the future or a big transfer for the club. They most definitely don't neglect young talent unlike the current set up.

That doesn't add up to pro/rel being good for younger players. We currently have the NPL level and point systems which require youth players at that level. There's no need for any link to the top level, and in fact if a pro/rel link was implemented, as described above that would be a negative for youth/junior players getting a game.

The competition in the NPL is garbage, the players need a decent competition in which to improve. And it is proven throughout the entire footballing world that it works and the best countries in the world in football use it as a key for development.

Nah mate Australia and the US have got it right and the whole football world have got it wrong. Soon every country in Europe will operate on a salary cap of 2.6m a year and there will be no p/r. Promotion and relegation just doesn't work. Football is a dying sport and it will only get worse from here. Down with capitalism, communism reigns supreme. Thank you Comrade David Gallop and Comrade Don Garber.

I would personally argue though that what you are citing can be achieved by a consolidated national second division, rather than P&R (and that's what I prefer). The two don't necessarily go together.

I'd also link the 2nd div with the NPL and re jig how that works in general. Because while multiple divs is excellent for talent, it is alsot here for fans too, that is why they need too be linked. Plus improved support means more money and better facilities  and competition which is attained via P&R

Ancelotti: No relegation ‘demotivating’ to MLS teams


Carlo Ancelotti claims that the absence of a relegation system in Major League Soccer ultimately “demotivates” the teams.

The Bayern Munich manager has kept an eye on the competition since spending time with the Vancouver Whitecaps in 2014, when his wedding was held in the Canadian city.

Ancelotti believes that while there will always be differences in the structures of American sports, a league which does not punish poor form will not challenge the players enough.

“I spent a lot of time in Canada last year and watched a lot of MLS,” the Italian said in an interview with ESPN.

“I think the fact that there is no relegation hurts, because it’s demotivating…it’s inevitable.

“I’d watch Vancouver and they weren’t doing well but, hey, what changes if they finish last? They don’t get relegated, they still get paid…but that’s the structure of U.S. sports and you have to respect it.

“It’s different, it’s a different approach, the way everything is structured is geared towards a spectacle, towards parity, rather than flat-out dog-eat-dog competition.”

With Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Chelsea and Juventus among the club’s managed by Ancelotti, the 57-year-old says he will stay at the top level for as long as possible.

“I think as long as you can stay at or near the top of the football world, that’s what you do…right now, the pinnacle is right here in Europe,” he added.

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http://outside90.com/ancelotti-no-relegation-demotivating-to-mls-teams/

NYCFC's David Villa: MLS is interesting without promotion-relegation system

January 19, 20174:27PM EST

MANHATTAN BEACH, Calif. – From Sporting Gijon to Barcelona to New York City FC, reigning MLS MVP David Villa has seen it all when it comes to title chases, relegation battles and playoff pushes.

His conclusion? What works in Spain may not work in North America, especially when it comes to the hotly-debated topic of promotion and relegation.

"Here it’s different [than Spain]. You don’t have relegation, but when the league starts on March 3, 22 teams have a chance to win the league,” the World Cup winner told reporters at Tuesday's MLS Media Day. ”This is amazing for the league. You can’t see this in a lot of leagues around the world. I think in any [other] league you can’t see that 22 teams have a chance for winning the league and this is our reality. This is interesting without relegation.”

"I know also from my time in Australia that they don't the relegation. It is not the same situation as the US however as they are unique. Australia is a unique sporting environment. They should start discussing promotion in... lets say 10 years."

scott21 a forum contributor from Australia disagrees "why would he state the system he is playing in is wrong or even stupid? Meh"

Villa also argued that relegation is more feasible in Spain in part because unlike MLS, “it’s impossible for 15 teams to get the trophy” at the start of the season, effectively creating a separate league for fans to take interest in.

In his 20 minute round-table discussion, NYCFC’s talisman was also pressed on a range of topics from his own personal future to the team's outlook for 2017, but took the questions with the calmness he displays in front of goal. Villa credited head coach Patrick Vieira for changing the club’s mentality, which led to a strong 2016 campaign that saw NYCFC finish just three points shy of the top spot in the Eastern Conference.

"The improvement of the team was in great part for him and his staff,” Villa said of Vieira. “He gave us a lot of identity.”

The Spanish striker also touched on the topic of retirement. Villa just turned 35 last month, but said he is not setting a target to hang up his cleats after feeling better than ever in 2016.

“The most important thing for me was that last year I only missed one training.” Villa said. “It’s my first time I didn’t have an injury during the year. I was fit. I was very comfortable in each game, in each training.”

Villa, who scored 23 goals and had four assists last season, hopes to continue this season in the same vein. In fact, he will only consider retirement when his body begins to wear down.

“If I get to be fit, comfortable and my mind is happy, I want to play more. I will play more for sure,” Villa said. “But, if those two things don't happen, no problem. I accept the moment and go out. But I am not thinking of this now.”

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/01/19/nycfcs-david-villa-mls-interesting-without-promotion-relegation-system