So this is totally random but I thought I'd do some searching for players who might have gone under the radar that might be worth looking at for the national team (or the youth teams or A-League clubs). Many of them are definitely unproven and are playing at levels very difficult to discern the quality of, but should be noted somewhere:

- Gabriel Cleur: 19 year-old right back AND right midfielder who can play as a right wingback (basically our weakest positions). Plays for Virtus Entella in Serie B, and has made 17 appearances in Primavera, playing every match since February with the team undefeated in every game he's played.

- Chris Duggan: 23 year-old striker playing for East Fife in Scottish League One (not a great league, but still worth noting). He's scored 7 goals in his last 9 games and is off contract at the end of the season. Maybe worth bringing to the A-League to see what he's capable of?

- Jordan Lyden: 21 year-old midfielder (who can also play at right back) for Aston Villa. He's been playing sporadically for the Villa first team and U23 team, but seems to be rated decently by the Villa fans. Maybe worth getting on loan in the A-League or being tried out for the U23 team?

- Aiden O'Neill: 18 year-old midfielder who's probably one of the more recognizable names on this list since he made a handful of appearances for Burnley in the EPL this season, and is now on loan at Oldham Athletic in League One (having made 10 appearances so far, with only two losses in games he's played). He's currently in the U23 setup but given his position he seems like a natural successor to the likes of Jedinak and Milligan. Maybe worth a senior call up in a friendly in the coming months?

-  Reno Piscopo: 18 year-old striker who was Inter's Primavera team top scorer two seasons ago, and has since moved to Torino who currently have Andrea Belotti (the best young Italian striker in Europe) on their books. It's very difficult to find any stats about Reno but surely he's worth exploring further, especially if he can get a loan or be continually involved in the youth setups for Australia. Since he's eligible for Italy, it may be worth capping him at senior level as a preemptive move, particularly if he ever breaks out Belotti-style in the future.

- Joel Rollinson: 18 year-old midfielder/winger playing for Reading, having appeared 23 times this season (~2000 minutes) for the U18 team, with 10 goals. He hasn't appeared for Australia at youth level and hasn't been mentioned at all in any of the development squads/training camps, but seems like an interesting prospect for the future.

- Kwame Yeboah: 22 year-old striker playing for Borussia Monchengladbach II in the fourth division of Germany. He's most likely well known to most people here, especially for being a classic example of leaving Australia too young. He has started finding his feet this season with 7 goals in 21 appearances, and is apparently off contract at the end of this season. Maybe worth a look-in for an A-League team or elsewhere in Europe? Either way, he's still young and should be in the back of the mind especially considering how desperate we are for Australian strikers that can finish.

  - Kenny Dougall: 23 year-old midfielder/centreback playing for Sparta Rotterdam in the Eredivisie. He's appeared 17 times for Sparta this season, and has been in the matchday squad a further 10 times. He's made more appearances for club than Smith, Sainsbury, and Degenek have this season, but he hasn't had a look-in at any level nor really been in the discussion. Maybe worth a call-up in a friendly to see what he can do?

- Cameron Burgess: 21 year-old midfielder/centreback playing for Bury in League One, on loan from Fulham who are in the fight for promotion to the EPL. He's played nearly every game for Bury this year, and has been in the Australian U23 development squad this week. Worth keeping an eye on to see how he progresses, especially since we'll need some more defensive-minded players in the coming year.

And for some better known players that probably deserve a shout out at some level (either at youth level or a call-up to the senior team for a friendly/qualifying) over the next 6 months if they keep up their form this season: Adam Taggart, Jamie Maclaren, Awer Mabil, Brandon Borrello, Brandon O'Neill, Liam Rose, Joe Caletti, Alex Gersbach, Callum Elder, Alex Wilkinson, Jonathon Aspro, Ruon Tongyik, Danny Vukovic, Lawrence Thomas.
 

So this is totally random but I thought I'd do some searching for players who might have gone under the radar that might be worth looking at for the national team (or the youth teams or A-League clubs). Many of them are definitely unproven and are playing at levels very difficult to discern the quality of, but should be noted somewhere:

- Gabriel Cleur: 19 year-old right back AND right midfielder who can play as a right wingback (basically our weakest positions). Plays for Virtus Entella in Serie B, and has made 17 appearances in Primavera, playing every match since February with the team undefeated in every game he's played.

- Chris Duggan: 23 year-old striker playing for East Fife in Scottish League One (not a great league, but still worth noting). He's scored 7 goals in his last 9 games and is off contract at the end of the season. Maybe worth bringing to the A-League to see what he's capable of?

- Jordan Lyden: 21 year-old midfielder (who can also play at right back) for Aston Villa. He's been playing sporadically for the Villa first team and U23 team, but seems to be rated decently by the Villa fans. Maybe worth getting on loan in the A-League or being tried out for the U23 team?

- Aiden O'Neill: 18 year-old midfielder who's probably one of the more recognizable names on this list since he made a handful of appearances for Burnley in the EPL this season, and is now on loan at Oldham Athletic in League One (having made 10 appearances so far, with only two losses in games he's played). He's currently in the U23 setup but given his position he seems like a natural successor to the likes of Jedinak and Milligan. Maybe worth a senior call up in a friendly in the coming months?

-  Reno Piscopo: 18 year-old striker who was Inter's Primavera team top scorer two seasons ago, and has since moved to Torino who currently have Andrea Belotti (the best young Italian striker in Europe) on their books. It's very difficult to find any stats about Reno but surely he's worth exploring further, especially if he can get a loan or be continually involved in the youth setups for Australia. Since he's eligible for Italy, it may be worth capping him at senior level as a preemptive move, particularly if he ever breaks out Belotti-style in the future.

- Joel Rollinson: 18 year-old midfielder/winger playing for Reading, having appeared 23 times this season (~2000 minutes) for the U18 team, with 10 goals. He hasn't appeared for Australia at youth level and hasn't been mentioned at all in any of the development squads/training camps, but seems like an interesting prospect for the future.

- Kwame Yeboah: 22 year-old striker playing for Borussia Monchengladbach II in the fourth division of Germany. He's most likely well known to most people here, especially for being a classic example of leaving Australia too young. He has started finding his feet this season with 7 goals in 21 appearances, and is apparently off contract at the end of this season. Maybe worth a look-in for an A-League team or elsewhere in Europe? Either way, he's still young and should be in the back of the mind especially considering how desperate we are for Australian strikers that can finish.

  - Kenny Dougall: 23 year-old midfielder/centreback playing for Sparta Rotterdam in the Eredivisie. He's appeared 17 times for Sparta this season, and has been in the matchday squad a further 10 times. He's made more appearances for club than Smith, Sainsbury, and Degenek have this season, but he hasn't had a look-in at any level nor really been in the discussion. Maybe worth a call-up in a friendly to see what he can do?

- Cameron Burgess: 21 year-old midfielder/centreback playing for Bury in League One, on loan from Fulham who are in the fight for promotion to the EPL. He's played nearly every game for Bury this year, and has been in the Australian U23 development squad this week. Worth keeping an eye on to see how he progresses, especially since we'll need some more defensive-minded players in the coming year.

And for some better known players that probably deserve a shout out at some level (either at youth level or a call-up to the senior team for a friendly/qualifying) over the next 6 months if they keep up their form this season: Adam Taggart, Jamie Maclaren, Awer Mabil, Brandon Borrello, Brandon O'Neill, Liam Rose, Joe Caletti, Alex Gersbach, Callum Elder, Alex Wilkinson, Jonathon Aspro, Ruon Tongyik, Danny Vukovic, Lawrence Thomas.
 

Any friendly matches before June?

Looking on Soccerway
Rogic played so far for Celtic in 16/17 before injury 1748 min and scored 10 goals = 1 goal every 174.8 min
The WCQ so far he has played in 8 games for 711 min scoring 4 goals = 1 goal every 177.75 min
better than 1 goal every 2 games.
The talk about no goal scorers i see is false.I just don't think Ange is using Tommy correctly. 

Any friendly matches before June?

We currently have three reasonable options up front for this formation that each offer something different. Cahill obviously does cahill things attracting defenders opening space for his team mates while also having defences at sixes and sevens when the ball is lofted into the box. Juric, although shocking in the last match is able to hold the ball up, has trickery and is deceptively quick for a big man. Burns has speed and scoring ability. A lot of this selection will be horses for courses. We are reasonably well served with the option of mixing it up if someone else can announce themselves. Maclaren and Taggart are both well and truly in the mix moving forward and im sure will receive their chance to show what they can offer in this formation.



Irvine has done enough in these last two games to push himself above luongo in the pecking order and his versatility through the middle allows us to be a lot more flexible depending on the availability of mooy, rogic, luongo and even jedinak. We are well serviced through the middle in this formation with each of the five players mentioned offering something different to the rest.

Sainsbury will be the first name on the team sheet moving forward regardless of if he plays at inter or not. We are not blessed with world class talent anywhere but particularly at the back to suit this formation. Spiranovic i have the feeling will not be part of Anges plans unless he can get a move away from his current club.

Surely given Dengs decision to join PSV where he struggles to get into the reserves has him well behind Tongyik in the pecking order who offers both strength and ability on the ball. Should Williams remain fit and be playing he is also a perfect fit because he really does have quality on the ball and is a more than able defender.

Wright will play when available because of his leadership abilities and the fact he plays week in week out at his club. I acknowledge his use of the ball isnt the best but as long as he can play a short 10-15 metre pass to one of his more able team mates he will be fine.

I like DeVere but im not sure how reliable his form will be given the fact he is quite injury prone, i acknowledge the same of Williams. No one will know if curtis Good is up to it until he starts playing again but obviously he is another option with age on his side. Wilkinson is reliable but aging and im hoping Degenek may improve with game time but im starting to question my initial belief in him.

Wingback for me is less of an issue. Leckie will play on the right hand side. He isn't overly injury prone so should be good to go most games. Other than him hopefully risdon can rediscover his previous form and at least offer a back up option.

We are well served on the left hand side. Gersbach, once in season will be able to play that role with little difficulty, behich is fit and playing and will be capable. Smith needs football but certainly has the engine Ange is looking for to play that role for 90 mins and just to throw a smokey in there zullo is in reasonable form with sydney though behind the rest in the pecking order.

There is no papering over the cracks. The last two games we played shit, that's the reality. If we want to make the world cup and actually be competitive we need to improve. I think Ange has seen that and that is why he is now changing his formation to try and fit his best players in. I'm sure if you asked him privately off the record he would be wishing he had made this change earlier than he has but hindsight is 20/20.

The draw against Thailand is what has really hurt us. Moving forward results like that should be deemed unacceptable. We as a nation dont want to find ourselves depending on the results of other teams to qualify. 

Welcome to the forum.

Looking on Soccerway
Rogic played so far for Celtic in 16/17 before injury 1748 min and scored 10 goals = 1 goal every 174.8 min
The WCQ so far he has played in 8 games for 711 min scoring 4 goals = 1 goal every 177.75 min
better than 1 goal every 2 games.
The talk about no goal scorers i see is false.I just don't think Ange is using Tommy correctly. 

Was here under SpongeBob but i can't log in for some reason.

Rogic hasn't turned out to be the no 10 play maker that many had hoped previously .eg the Zidane style playmaker/Game dictator that Mooy appears to do for us.
Rogic sets up far fewer goals for team mates than one would expect but fashions openings for himself with ease.
He has become more of a Baggio style no 10 second striker in my view like Del Piero or Bergkamp where he is best when drifting between the lines and running at the defence playing off a centre forward.
Baggio from memory applied defensive pressure without being an integral part of the defensive structure.
Rogic i think has struggled with the defensive off the ball duties under Ange as can be seen in the Thai game and that flows onto team mates when the game isn't going our way.
This new 13241 formation could unlock that but i think it'll need to be tweaked more to accommodate Rogic effectively.
In the attacking third Rogic is excellent but in the middle third he would be behind other mids.
Eg:

  

I'd rather see the game approached like that.  mooy central and attacking and rogic given license to roam as a second striker.

Thinking about players that fit a back three and the difficulty Bailey Wright has had playing wide left, out to the touch line on occasion, and needing to play the ball on the deck:(can't believe I'm saying this)But surely Jason Davidson needs to enter the equation along with Wilkinson, Spira etc. He's a very mobile left-footer, more defensively minded than wingbacks like Smith or Gersbach and played CB during his first stint in Holland. I know he is very error prone, but with the WC and AC he's pretty experienced. He's at least gotta be in the conversation.

New Signing

The implication is not that Cahill is anything other than clinical in front of goals. He is clinical in front of goals. The implication is that he's not a complete striker. He's a box-to-box midfielder who has been converted into a striker because he is terrific in the air and finishes brilliantly and nobody else has stood up. But there is more to playing up front than finishing ability and he's very limited in other parts of his game which an out-and-out striker ought to have. Is that a fair assessment?

I agree with most of what you've said in your post. Very good point about Tongyik.

I think we need an X-factor type of attacking footballer (fantasista) who has basically everything (football IQ, 1 vs 1 ability, speed, agility and a knack of goal-scoring). They needn't play up front. But very high up with a lot of attacking licence. This is what is missing. Tom Rogic and Aaron Mooy are only really useful when they can play in that kind of footballer. Otherwise, things look decidedly lacking in imagination. Nathan Burns is potentially a go. Otherwise, the best bet is a youth footballer such as Daniel Arzani or Lucas Derrick (should they have some A-League success)

 The other option would is Irvine in place of Mooy, with Mooy further back. Jackson has shown he is a good, dynamic player with an eye for goal.

I can remember a number of posters giving Quickflick a hard time, because he advocated three at the back.

The argument was that because few agreed with him, he was wrong. The axiom was he had no right to advance that view!

 Ange agrees with QF!

One stat I just read is that Jamey MacLaren's strike rate per game in the HAL  is better than Berisha's and similar to Fornaroli's.


Maclaren - 1.26 games for every goal scored in the HAL at Roar.

Fornaroli - 1.25 games for every goal scored.

Berisha - 1.51 games for every goal scored.



I wonder if Ange is aware of this?

it would be more accurate to look at minutes per goal.  also removing penalties would be an even better picture.  

it would be more accurate to look at minutes per goal.  also removing penalties would be an even better picture.  

Never heard of Cleur or Rollinson before...and they sound like the most interesting on the entire list of names thrown out there. That Cleur lad looks like an actual RWB and that Rollinson kid looks like he's got a bit of Kewell in him based on his position and stats. Will be very interested to track their progress over the next couple of years...let's hope for all our sakes they can make a step up.

A League - Minutes per goal - With Pens
Santalab 71min
McClaren 107
Berisha 117
Taggart 124
Fornaroli 126

A League - Minutes per goal - Minus Pens

Santalab 71 min
Taggart 124
Rojas 145
McClaren 147
Bobo 166