I reckon there'd be plenty of companies that do business in South East Asia and Australia that would be delighted to sponsor an ASEAN comp including Australia: Air Asia, Tiger Air, Singtel/Optus...

Economic opportunities are so obvious they don't even bare discussion.

First leg of the 2016 final is on right now between Indonesia and Thailand.

Cheers

Why Southeast Asian football is still struggling to be accepted and respected on the global stage

Thailand fans before the 2016 AFF Suzuki Cup 2016 semi-final second leg against Myanmar at the Rajamangala National Stadium in Bangkok. Photo: EPA
This month, the football world focused its attention on the FIFA Club World Cup in Japan. At the same time Uefa’s Champions League group phase came to an end, while football watchers continued to be astounded by China’s intensifying interest and grand plans in football. Most people were probably not paying too much attention to the AFF Suzuki Cup.

Unless you are a hardcore football fan, it is likely that you are asking ‘what’s the Suzuki Cup?’ The Japanese automotive corporation is title sponsor of the Asean Football Federation (AFF) Championship, of which this year’s tournament was the 11th edition.

Asean is the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, and the competition is given Fifa ‘Category A’ status which earns international ranking points for participants.

The AFF has 12 member associations, with this year’s competition being contested between co-hosts Myanmar and the Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia, Singapore, and Cambodia. Australia is arguably the best known, most established football nation in Asean, but do no compete in the tournament.

Thailand’s Chanathip Songkrasin (left) and Yan Aung Kyaw of Myanmar. Photo: APThailand’s Chanathip Songkrasin (left) and Yan Aung Kyaw of Myanmar. Photo: AP

This year’s final will be contested over two legs between Thailand and Indonesia.

Buoyant interest in the competition is not unusual; indeed, in 2012 more than 190 million people are thought to have watched the tournament on television, including 15 million Indonesian fans alone as their national team contested the final. But the apparent health of these figures masks a harsher reality.

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When Thailand played Singapore in this year’s competition, there were only 359 people inside the stadium to watch the game. Perhaps unsurprising when the region’s highest ranked Fifa nation is Australia (which is in itself an issue) in 48th place, after which the Philippines appears in 117th place.

Football in Asean does not have the commercial appeal of the European game, nor the associated perceptions of glamour that accompany football in, say, Argentina or Brazil. As a result, even the most ardent football fans from across the world are likely to struggle to name players or clubs from the region. Indeed, in preparing this piece I tried to note down prominent people or organisations linked to Asean. My list reached three.

Sarawut Masuk celebrates with Teerasil Dangda against Singapore. Photo: EPASarawut Masuk celebrates with Teerasil Dangda against Singapore. Photo: EPA

It revealed a great deal about my personal ignorance, but sadly also about the world’s knowledge about and perceptions of the Asean region. To my embarrassment, the list consisted of: Peter Withe, Manchester United, and Vincent Tan. That I should recall these three in particular nevertheless reveals a great deal, both about my European perceptions of the region’s football, and about the challenges it faces.

Former Aston Villa and England international player Withe has had a long association with football in Thailand. After a distinguished career as a player, the majority of his managerial career has been spent in the Asean region. During this time, he has managed Thailand and Indonesia, as well as Thai club sides PTT Rayong and Nakhon Pathom United. Withe did so without ever having managed at the top-level in European football.

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Unlike China and Japan, the best coaches and managers don’t flock to the Asean countries. This could be a reflection of football’s profile, importance and quality in the region, though it could also be a reflection of the salaries that are paid, and of the perceptions of career development that coaches and managers have should they consider moving to Southeast Asia. Perhaps it is also a case too of local managers simply not being good enough.

Manchester United sprang to mind and made it onto my list because of the large numbers of fans the club has across the Asean region. That said, Arsenal and Liverpool also have strong followings in the region and could easily have made my list. English football has always been very good at signing television deals in the region, which dates back several decades.

Manchester United's Michael Owen against Malaysia in 2009. Photo: APManchester United's Michael Owen against Malaysia in 2009. Photo: AP

As such, many of the region’s football fans were brought-up with English clubs being beamed directly into their living rooms. This has resulted in successful fan engagement for many English clubs, with locals often more predisposed to the likes of United than to their own domestic teams. To illustrate this point, when the Reds played against Malaysia in Kuala Lumpur during the summer of 2009, the game was an 85,000 sell-out.

Getting anywhere near this level of attendance is proving to be a major challenge across the Asean countries, a situation that is hardly helped when some of the region’s richest individuals and businesses have also looked westwards for opportunities.

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Malaysian multi-millionaire Tan has possibly become the most obvious face of this, although many football fans see him more as a pantomime villain. Cardiff City owner Tan is infamous for his failed attempts to change the colour of City’s shirts from traditional blue to a more commercially appealing red.

Tan’s somewhat idiosyncratic approach to club ownership has drawn scorn amongst critics, although he is not alone in attracting derision. Reading’s co-owner, Thai businesswoman Khunying Sasima Srivikorn, stunned fans (and possibly made ears bleed) with a self-penned club song.

Cardiff City owner Vincent Tan. Photo: ReutersCardiff City owner Vincent Tan. Photo: Reuters

Meanwhile her compatriot Thaksin Shinawatra had such an ill-fated spell as owner of Manchester City that Sven-Goran Eriksson, one of the team’s managers during that time, claimed the Thai ‘didn’t have a clue’ about running a football club.

Whether due to lack of knowledge or experience, or for completely different reasons, there is consequently a sense that football in the Asean region is hardly served by suitably qualified or competent leaders and managers.

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This situation is not helped by other factors either, such as Australia’s recent inclusion within the Asean group of countries or by the growth of China’s interest in football.

Australia joined the Asian Football Confederation in 2006 and Asean football in 2014, decisions that were and still are laden with politics.

Indonesia's Stefano Janjte Lilipaly (left) in action against Vietnam's Nguyen Trong Hoang. Photo: EPAIndonesia's Stefano Janjte Lilipaly (left) in action against Vietnam's Nguyen Trong Hoang. Photo: EPA

Although some leaders within Asean football have welcomed the opportunities this has created, others are more sceptical. Indeed, several people have actually called from Australia to disengage from Asian football and head back to the Oceania confederation. The issue of Australia almost seems like an endless and unnecessary distraction.

As for China, the regional giant is occupying Asean’s attention as the Middle Kingdom has embarked on a massive football investment programme. Not only is this grabbing the headlines in East Asia, it is also soaking-up resources – playing, managerial, financial and otherwise.

Guess how many Asian brands have deals with the English Premier League

This has only added to the challenges facing football in countries like Indonesia and Myanmar, and China has only just commenced its quest to stage and win the Fifa World Cup.

There are some bright spots for Asean, for example the success at Thai-owned Leicester City. This proves that there is an appreciation from within the region of what it takes to be successful in football. Even so, this was the English Premier League, once again suggesting that at least within the region, the likes of the AFF Suzuki Cup and its winner still have some way to go in being accepted and respected by world football.

This piece is published in partnership with Policy Forum.net (www.policyforum.net), an academic blog looking at regional public policy based at the ANU Crawford School of Public Policy.


http://m.scmp.com/sport/soccer/article/2054449/why-southeast-asian-football-still-struggling-be-accepted-and-respected

You wouldn't get release for European based players and it's highly probable Asian based players wouldn't get released as well so it would have to be a squad based on A League players.

So for five rounds (20% of the season) clubs would be without several key players, the impact would vary club-club but Brisbane for example would potentially lose Maclaren and DeVere plus other Australian qualified players to back fill for 20+ missing European players. The impact would be significant

The A league would become a domestic joke every second year, I can't imagine attendances would hold up during that period either, and I doubt fox sports would be happy.

Unless we align our season to the rest of Asia I'd say no, the HAL has enough challenges without shooting ourselves in the foot every second year

Would never work for us, the only hope in hell it would ever have is with serious conditions imposed on the squad selection such as an U21 side goes or each A-League club can 'protect' 5 players from being selected. If that was the case then the side going wouldn't generate any attention as most people don't like watching B teams and it could damage the FIFA ranking for the proper Socceroos side. Leave the comp alone, it's great that sides like Indonesia & Thailand have the opportunity to win tournaments 

I think it they send an under age team it doesn't affect rankings.

I don't think A-League players would be released either, so the squad would probably be filled with players A-League clubs allow only. I am pretty sure it is outside of the Asian domestic seasons, so most our Asian players (minus middle east) could play.

A-League players have to be released for national duty.

Do they have to be released if the games aren't on FIFA dates?

Yes - it is in the CBA (but the link to it is dead).  Same as players had to be released for the A-League All Stars game

I proposed a solution to this on page 2:

If I was in charge, I'd be looking at engaging single states to host a special AFF Championship every four years including and hosted by Australia, Copa America Centenario style (which was a special centenary edition of the South American Copa America, hosted by the USA) in August in the years after Asian Cups, eg 2020, 2024, etc. That would not clash with the current schedule of WCQs, and be early enough in preseason for Euro based Aussies to come, but if we have to go with mostly Australia/Asia based and young gun squad then no harm done, far from it, actually.
I think it would actually have greater appeal than the Asian Cup proper did, which hosted a majority of inaccessible teams like Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, etc, and instead not only capture the local diaspora's passion but also the wider population's comprehension in playing "real" countries like Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia on a regular basis.
My ideal comp would have the top eight AFF countries (ideally after a playoff comp for the minnows) play in the obvious two groups of four with semis and final in the last two weeks of August in "Olympic" years, making it five matchdays in say sixteen days for the finalists, segueing nicely into the FIFA window WCQs which have stayed solidly scheduled for the first two Tuesdays/Wednesdays of September for a while now, to say nothing of the neat segue into the A-League season, all while still getting cleanish air before the AFL and NRL finals.
It would be a relatively cheap event for state governments to pull off with 100% already existing infrastructure, and I imagine they'd be keen on it. Victoria, for example, could easily host it with the Final and major Socceroos games at Etihad, second tier games at AAMI and Kardinia Parks and third tier games at Lakeside Stadium and Morsehead Park in Ballarat, while NSW and Queensland will have no trouble at all with rectangular venues that fit the bill. Adelaide could swing it with fixtures between Adelaide Oval, Hindmarsh and a modestly upgraded Marden, while even Perth could make do if their turn comes with nib and the new stadium.
Major broadcasters would be more behind it than you might think. They're just coming around to the A-League now, but anything in green and gold and wins for Australia has FTA written all over it, especially against countries that their audience can actually find on the map, and have probably been to.

Wiki has us in but I don't believe it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_AFF_Championship

I am warming up to us playing in this now for a few reasons.

One is that they are doing home matches now, so Australia would get 1 or 2 matches in Australia (in the group stage).

Because the WC is expanding to 8.5 for Asia I don't think our ranking will be important in the future. Unless we are trying to be a pot 1 WC nation. This means we can play youth and give players caps.

An example is Hrustic. Europe will only gain 3 more spots so Bosnia won't really have it any easier to get to WCs. If that is a players ambition. We can pretty much give up on NZ players as eg Ingham who is 17 may have the chance to play the 26,30 & 34 WCs, depending on his career. We can have the same lure for kids who are tempted to stronger European nations.

I still an issue about releasing players as it is non FIFA and talking managers at overseas clubs to release their players for such a tournament.

Obviously building links with ASEAN is also important. But we have to be weary to treat such a tournament with the respect it deserves and not make a mockery of it.

Although, we did have to rely on pens in Thailand when JMac was striker..,

Agreed. 

It's very good practice for younger players in a proper tournament that isn't AFC/WC qualifiers. Valuable experience in playing in Asia in front of hostile crowds (now that teams get home games).

I personally think it should be an under 23s and any non playing euro players (id include asian but most asian based players play). 

If it's non-FIFA sanctioned/not on FIFA dates, do the caps in this tournament lock in players? Or would it be like a cap in a friendly where they're still eligible for other nations?

They must be.

FIFA ranking points awarded to AFF Suzuki Cup for 2016 edition


ESPN FC's Jason Dasey and John Wilkinson assess Singapore's chances at the AFF Championship.
FIFA world ranking points will be offered for the first time at this month's AFF Suzuki Cup.

The 11th edition of the Southeast Asian tournament, which will kick off on Nov. 19, will escalate in prestige after being recognised by FIFA as a Category A-ranked tournament.

Other proposed changes will also see the AFF championship ditching its qualifiers, with the two groups in the tournament itself to be decided on home and away basis.

The regional showcase, to be co-hosted by Myanmar and Philippines, was previously considered a friendly competition by the world body, and only offered ranking points on the ASEAN stage.

But with crowd and TV viewing figures rapidly rising over the years, the biennial affair will finally be granted global status.

"We recently got declaration from the Asian Football Confederation (AFC) that the AFF Cup now offers international ranking points," AFF General Secretary Datuk Seri Azzuddin Ahmad told ESPN FC.

"We had got our 11 member associations to make an appeal to the AFC. Through their backing and support, the AFF Cup has now risen in prestige.

"This tournament has been offering encouraging figures not only in this region, but throughout the world. It is our premier tournament, our gold bank to market comprehensively."

Dato' Sri Azzuddin Ahmad, AFF
AFF General Secretary Azzuddin says the Suzuki Cup is now more prestigious because of the FIFA ranking points.
In 2010, a record 192 million TV viewers tuned in to watch the tournament, which saw Malaysia clinch their maiden trophy after a 4-2 aggregate triumph over Indonesia, under the reign of Datuk K. Rajagobal.

That two-legged final saw an average of 15 million Indonesians viewers alone.

It was more than double the figures of the highest-rated 2010 FIFA World Cup match in the football-mad nation, which recently returned from a year-long international ban.

In the 2014 edition, almost five million Malaysians watched the event on Pay TV.

One of the reasons for the rise is due to AFF's commercial partnerships with international sports marketing agency, Lagardere Sports, and Japanese auto-company Suzuki, which came on board as official sponsor in 2008.

AFF is in discussions to continue with Lagadere for upcoming editions.

Once an agreement is reached, the plan is to eliminate the four-nation qualifiers, won last month by Cambodia.

"There will be only two groups, and teams will play each other home and away. The countries will be chosen based on their ranking points and by drawing lots. This move is more attractive for commercial value," said Azzuddin, adding the proposal should be finalised by December.

The former FAM general secretary and national player also promised big things from Myanmar and Philippines, who are making their AFF hosting debuts.

"Myanmar is a football crazy nation, so we are sure there will be an encouraging turnout for games. Philippines, meanwhile, are an improving nation with a few dual citizenship players," he said.

"Both countries have fulfilled the necessary requirements, based on our feedback, as early as late 2014. We have had three stages of inspection and infrastructure, and we are happy with the outcome."

The Philippines Sports Stadium and Rizal Memorial Stadium will host Group A, which consists of Philippines, defending champions Thailand, Indonesia and Singapore.

Matches in Group B, which pit together Myanmar, Malaysia, Cambodia and Vietnam, will be solely be played at the Thuwunna YTC Stadium in Yangon.

Defending champions Thailand have won four AFF titles, the same as 2012 winners, Singapore.

Nicolas Anil is a former Malay Mail and Goal.com Malaysia editor/writer who appears on BFM Radio as a football analyst. Twitter: @nicolas_anil.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/football-asia/153/post/2991970/fifa-ranking-points-awarded-to-aff-suzuki-cup-for-2016-edition

Cockerill, when you read this write an article . You too Lynch. We need to get involved.

I am sure that would be difficult. It would probably be difficult to get any player on a bench also (from Europe). I wouldnt be against a max 1 player from each A-League team.

         JMac
Nabbout Troisi XXX XXX Fitzgerald
Galloway McGowen Cornthwaite  Risdon
Vukovic

I had a hard time from WP. 

Although the Wiki is different to the sources.

Sources says two 5 teams groups, so at least 4 home games, the 2-legged semis and 2-legged final.

Ok.
Just looked it up
http://www.foxsportsasia.com/news/aff-suzuki-cup-format-change-2018/

Its 4 group games (2 h 2 a) 

Im having trouble finding a "category A" tournament regulations from FIFA. 

I have found this artiicle - 

The International Football Federation approved regulations for the FIFA Confederations Cup 2017, which will be held in Russia. This was announced by the "Russia-2018" Organising Committee head and Russian Football Union President Vitaly Mutko.

"The regulations for the Confederations Cup have been approved. They come into force as of today," he said.

Mutko also noted that FIFA introduced a number of amendments to the regulations in order to allow stronger players to play in the tournament.

"Several amendments were introduced to the regulations regarding player status and transfers. Earlier, it allowed Category A players to take part in tournaments only once a year. An exception was made for Mexico’s squad and Africa’s team, because this year they had other tournaments. All in all, clubs were obliged to allow players to join national teams for both tournaments, so that everybody had the opportunity to play their strongest squad," he said.

http://welcome2018.com/en/journal/materials/fifa-approves-regulations-for-the-confederations-cup-2017/

Im not sure if category A players and category A tournaments are the same thing?

If it is, it would mean clubs would have to release Australian players for this tournament. Much like clubs have to release players for Asian Cup or African Cup of Nations. 

Further investigation - 

Modern Sports Law: A Textbook

By Jack Anderson

Fighting Eurocentrism

But the confederation’s position is also about its own interests, except that it chooses not to focus its position on labour ownership. In the context of Edward Said’s work on post-colonial theory, CAF has imagined its position in an increasingly Eurocentric footballing word as the “other”.

The European pressure to change the timing of this premier tournament is seen from that perspective. CAF believes that UEFA and its national league schedules are widely seen as normal and that its own are in conflict with “normal” European schedules.

The response has been to resist this pressure. The CAF has justified its resistance by citing FIFA’s international calendar that allows confederations to use either the winter or summer months to host tournaments. CAF has also cited weather disruptions, which in most of Africa result from rains that are more likely to occur in the summer than in the winter months. CAF has said that in terms of revenue for the event, a two-year cycle is more viable than a four-year cycle.

http://theconversation.com/africa-cup-of-nations-shouldnt-be-moved-for-the-sake-of-european-clubs-36692


- So the AFF Championship is a category A tournament, like WC, Confeds Cup, Asian Cup, Euros and ANC
- Clubs are obliged to release players for 1 category A tournament per calendar year 

Category A tournaments Australia are eligable to enter
Jun 2017 Confed Cup
Jun 2018 WC
Nov 2018 AFF - did not enter
Jan 2019 AC
Nov 2020 AFF
Nov 2022 WC
2022/2023 AFF
Jun 2023 AC (I assume it will be in East Asia)

2020 we have no other tournaments for the manager could pick a full strength squad. 2022/23 would have to be a 2nd team as the wc or ac would be in the same year. 
FFA should go for it. 

Why would Australia drop in the rankings if we participate in this? If we are not playing any matches during that time, we are not earning any ranking points. We would earn a few points by participating in this, which is surely better than earning none. If we chose to not play in a bigger tournament in order to be available for the asean one, then I could understand the argument about it costing us ranking positions.

Seeing as that FIFA rankings are now awarded for the tournament would it become an event where club's need to release players??

Personally I think it would provide a great tool for Australia to blood a lot of young players or fringe players. Great opportunity for players, Australia and bolstering our relations with SE Asia.

Clubs would have to release players. If players have played in the WC or AC the same year clubs don't have to. In that case a 2nd string team could be selected.

A-League clubs/managers can have no objection to this and the FFA (or independent league committee) would not have to answer any questions of pausing the league, as they are non FIFA dates.

The way I see it, even if we lose or draw matches in this tournament it doesn't really matter in the future with 8.5 Asian spots going to the World Cup. It does depend a little hoe AFC does qualifying but it may be similar to now.

Pot 1 in round 2 is teams ranked 1-8 in AFC.
In round 3 the pots are 1 1-2, 2 3-4, 3 5-6, 4 7-8 etc

So if we end up the same, with 2 groups of 6, it doesn't matter really what we are ranked. Only that we are in the top 8.

It is almost better imo to be 3 or 4 because then we are sure to get Iran or SouthKorea who are more likely not to drop points against teams while still having trouble away to us. We cannot rely on always performing in West Asia.

Literally cannot conceive a single cogent argument against us taking advantage of the massive growth opportunity that is South East Asian Football.

Like the report writes 15 million viewers in Indonesia alone for the finals and 192 million overall. Then over 5 milllion Malaysians watching on pay tv.

It will be interesting to see how the crowds go in the future when every team will have a home game. The games seem to have drama.

Semi in Myanmar 33k in attendance



Semi in Vietnam 40k, Viet goalie gets sent off for time wasting, Viet score in 93rd to go to extra time, Viet new goalie gives away pen




Final in Indonesia 30k 1st leg

Final in Thailand 48k 2nd leg , Indo mate gets sent off for banging the ball into Thai bench




I imagine this tournament wouldnt be everyones cup of tea in the beginning and some may have an arrogant view against it. In the event where we played imo FFA would be smart to play at smaller venues, such as new Parra and Aami and have cheap tickets. Almost a break even view until future years when it is part of our calendar. Of course FFA would be looking at making money. 

Fucking scenes. So much more for all concerned if we were amongst it.

I actually think that there would be a pretty positive view to it; unlike the 2015 Asian Cup which was stacked with your Qatars and Barhrains, an AFF Championship would include countries that not only Joe Public has heard of, but also have passionate diaspora in our own country.

The Socceroos at home to Indonesia, Thailand etc would be a very sellable ticket, compared to our current Asian selling points of Brisbane Roar vs Muanthong in the ACL or Oman vs Kuwait in the home Asian Cup. Matildas AFC Olympic qualifiers were live on FTA; the wider public are much more keen for Green and Gold action than we give them credit.

I think either my mooted extra Australian hosted tourney from this thread or participation in the above suggested home and away format would be an instant hit.

I think the benefits would be great. Especially our relationship with Indonesia. Race to the bottom will see Indonesia rise if/when they sort out their manufacturing as the price in China will continue to increase. It could happen quickly given their population and low work cost. Having as many ties in place as possible and "normalizing" having them in our lives and vice versa is imo good.