Meanwhile to our 'tolerant' north.  
 
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39996224

Indonesian men caned for gay sex in Aceh

Yeah I've had a think about it and I can't really do the sarcastic SJW thing with that one.

I don't understand how leftists square their support of Muslims with their scriptural and actual persecution of homosexuals without being hypocritical.

It's not like it's an extremist position at all, with numerous countries having laws against it, it's actually pretty mainstream.

McJules, any help? I wonder if Tony Jones will ask Yasmin on QnA?

LAWRENCE KRAUSS: If you make people afraid, then you have them stop asking questions. And you pick whether it’s Russia, or immigrants, or Islamic fundamentalism – make ‘em afraid, Goebbels said it. Democracy, dictatorship, doesn’t matter. You want people to do what you want them to do, make ‘em afraid.

(People are too stupid to have the awareness)

Also wondering how righties shoehorn Jihadi Jake into the narrative

An impressionable, vulnerable and naive teenager gets converted to a foreign, recently imported 'religion' which convinces him to travel to the other side of the world and commit suicide, while murdering as many people as he can at the same time.

And you question why that leads people, regardless of political persuasion, to hate (not fear) Islam?

I'm sure with a little more thought even you can figure that out.

On the other hand, you have put forward some very novel ideas about 2nd generation migrants not being linked to migration at all, but the destination country being responsible for them in their entirety. Next time someone extols the benefits of migration, I'll make sure to use that one too and restrict the conversation to 1st Gen, foreign born only.

That's pretty easy.

Very easy. Maybe read your statements before hoping on that high horse.

I wasn't really planning on commenting in this thread because it's prone to brigading by people incapable of making reasoned and respectful arguments but as you have asked in a a reasonable way I'll give it a crack. Don't expect it to change your opinion but maybe it will help you understand. Of course this is my own perspective and perhaps other "leftists" have different points of view.

Basically it boils down to this,  I don't "support" Islam any more than any other religion but I do strongly support a corner stone of our national (and in particular my home state of South Australia) values in freedom of religion. For that reason, I absolutely condemn any persecution of muslims. I don't see that as hypocritical at all because there are other people practising homophobic religions in this country as well. 

Now I know the next thing will be "Islam" is worse but I've been down that path before here and I know I won't change your opinion.

In summation, I support muslim people's right to live in our society, I don't support Islam.

Yassy has been dumped :)

Never even heard or knew about the Quadrant until that edgelord blew his load.

-PB

Thanks for providing a detailed answer, that’s a very principled position, ideological even.

I would put forward that it is unfortunately outdated because it has proven wholly inadequate in dealing with the jihadism and creeping sharia that are two sides of the same coin of islamic imperialism. I am actually more open to changing my mind that you might believe, but it needs to be based on evidence and reality of sharia-appeasement successfully working, not platitudes.

Until then I’ll draw the logical conclusion that the failure of the tolerance and diversity worldview is that it has no answer to those who are committed to neither tolerance or diversity, but to conversion and violent subjugation. The “persecution” you recoil from is nothing compared to the horror this religion eternally inflicts on anyone else. I’m certainly not pardoning tearing headscarves off isolated women, but the chances of koran-inspired mass murder happening again in the UK, in continental Europe and in Australia are 100%. Not 99%, but 100%. Meanwhile, violent imposition of sharia is not a nightly news story from France anymore, it’s here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4394604/Christian-man-claims-Muslim-teens-attacked-train.html      

I fear the conclusion you’ll ultimately come to is the same as Merkel, Macron and Sadiq Khan are now trying to convince their populations of … “get used to it”. From the sounds of it, you might be OK with that. I’m not. While you might not be closing the casket on a loved one, others will.  

Great post..."get used to it" is the latest spineless solution of our so-called leaders.

And I'm probably a bit harsh on McJules in suggesting he is ok with that, especially after he was willing to give an honest answer. However, I still think that there are two progressions from a tolerance & diversity worldview. One is to acknowledge it's failure and start looking for solutions while the other, once the lie of integration and peaceful co-existence has been nail-bombed and raped out of existence, is "get used to it". Leaders right across the EU are starting to say it.

I have a pretty busy afternoon today but suffice to say I strongly disagree with pretty much all of this :) Perhaps I'll have time this evening.

I think I'm probably aware of what you would say, up to you

You probably are and what you replied was exactly what I expected. Shall decide later if we should dance but basically the fundamental premise that you build your argument on I don't agree with and you won't agree with what mine so it's pretty pointless.

I suspect we want the same thing, you and I. A harmonious, integrated and peaceful Australia. We just disagree on the nature of the threat.  

Haven't UK leaders and EU leaders been resigned to the fact that this is the way it is. I have heard nothing but a resounding sigh.

So, a native citizen. At least you attempted to shoehorn......
Righties and evidence, not something that should be uttered in the same sentence.

"Openly wishing people to suicide (you) or wishing people to die in terrorist attacks (Captain) are against forum rules. Common sense and credit to captain for editing his original post."

So much for that high horse.....

That's the extent of the attempt at a 'logical argument'
No wonder conservatives are scarce as hen's teeth in science

Donald Trump shoves Montenegro's Prime Minister

Rofl, the media storm this has created is hilarious.

-PB

Did you see him & Macron? It's like watching an 18 year old act tough.

More like a soft pull back than a push :laugh:

Perhaps I misunderstood you. You're saying that where people are born is not the issue, but adherence to the koran is?

No argument from me.

I didn't edit my post? I don't shy away from it. This world would be better off if we didnt have the bleeding hearts.

We would also have 22 kids alive, too.

And while Manchester still counts the dead and politicians twist themselves in knots to deny the obvious, Christians in the Middle East just wake up on Groundhog Day.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/gunmen-kill-23-in-gun-attack-on-christians-in-egypt-governor-20170526-gwec5p.html

Perhaps the good tax-payer funded folks in Ultimo can tell them not to worry, because falling refrigerators and car accidents kill more people in Egypt?

While all this is happening, it's groundhog day for Syrians as US-led air strikes kill 100 people including 42 children in an eastern Syrian town.
https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/868119554324647936
Perhaps the good (indirectly tax-payer funded by the fact they don't pay tax) folks in the murdoch press can tell them not to worry, because it's all their fault.

That is indeed terrible news and one of the reasons I've long held the view that Isis should be dealt with by the countries surrounding it. Not sure they would do it with any less atrocities though, probably more.

The M.E. would have been a much better place without Hilary running round destabilising everywhere she could get her hands on and Obama green lighting the Iranians. Unfortunately the press seems to have lost interest in uncovering outside involvement in the causes of the Syrian War. Hilary should be in a cell next to Cheney and Wolfowitz.

He was referring to me- I edited my post. But I agree that the bleeding hearts and the people blaming everything BAR the ideology that underpins these acts of terror, are human cancer.