its tough
a back 3 of spira sains and milligan definitely optimizes your chances at qualifying (and doing well at the wc)

But in the long run you need to make incentives to play in the best league. 

Personally I think its the wrong decision but this close to the world cup some short term thinking is understandable I suppose

Swap Meredith for Spiranovic and it would make sense. Otherwise a no frills squad. Interesting to see if Jedinak gets on the pitch.

He did not really plan to be playing in the Chinese 2nd division, he joined a first division team and got relegated and is contracted for this season. Being injured for quite a while has probably ruined any chance he might have had to leave the club.

Mat Ryan, Mitch Langerak, Danny Vukovic, Trent Sainsbury, Bailey Wright, Matthew Spiranovic, Milos Degenek, Matt Jurman, Aaron Mooy, Mile Jedinak, Mark Milligan, Jackson Irvine, Massimo Luongo, Mustafa Amini, Mathew Leckie, Brad Smith, Aziz Behich, Alex Gersbach, Tom Rogic, Tomi Juric, Tim Cahill, James Troisi and Robbie Kruse.


Read more at http://www.socceroos.com.au/article/caltex-socceroos-fans-pick-their-23-man-squad/92481jpy5fs211rvd88f3igyd#SVLm8gZq5oOwvJoc.99


Every time 23 makes are thrown at me I can't seem to see who is missing or included. I wouldn't complain about this squad. 

Federici, McGree, McGowan, Maclaren, Mail, Jeggo and Hrustic miss out. 

Definitely drop Degenek for Mabil and Maclaren in for Amini. Amini is fine but just misses out. We need to score goals. 

If we're losing in Japan we might decide to go for it. We'll have to anyway. 

Say UAE beat Saudi, a 1:0 loss in Japan wouldn't be a disaster then. I'd expect our goal difference to go up a bit against Thailand. 

Going over our squad the year 1992 has produced a lot of good players. Ryan, Wright, Sainsbury, Luongo. 

Then there's my year 1988. Kruse, Spiranovic, Troisi, Williams, Burns. Players who really should've reached more heights. A year of disappointment and odd personality in regards to club choices. 

Spira was playing top flight at 17 or 18 wasn't he?

Likely starting lineup if sainsbury is fit based on Postecoglou favourites
...................................Ryan
.......Degenek...........Sainsbury...........Wright
.....................Milligan...........Mooy
Leckie..........Rogic.............Troisi...........Smith
..................................Juric

We all know why Ryan is chosen ahead of Langerak.
Degenek is playing games every week in Japan.
Spiranovic should replace Sainsbury if injury is sustained.
Milligan in defensive midfield is a no brainer.
Moody's form forces him into the starting lineup over Luongo
Leckie, Rogic form, Troisi based on Chile performance, Smith like Ryan
Juric form.

I think it should be
..............................Langerak
......Degenek........Sainsbury...........Spiranovic
................Milligan.........Irvine
Leckie........Rogic............Behich😡 smith
.........................Cahill
.........................Juric

playing occasionally at 19 but never played more than 10 games in a season for the top side

its interesting sorting the side out by year
1979
cahill
1985
Vukovic, Milligan
1988
Langerak, spiranovic, troisi,kruse
1989
Mcgowan
1990
Mooy
1991
leckie, Juric
1992
Wright, Ryan, sains, luongo, rogic
1993
Irvine, Amini, mclaren
1994
smith, degenek
1995
Mabil
1997
Gersbach

The 1987-1991 players are at their peak (apart from kruse who missed so much due to injury). The younger players could all potentially reach that level or higher. Mabil and gersbach particularly impressive. Here are some other notable osaussie players from each year who have played at a decent level in blue. I also put any exciting youngster in the a league as well as players who have dominated the a league but never played at a higher level in red. The current roos are in green.

1979
cahill
1982
Brad Jones
1983
Matt Mckay Alex Brosque David Carney
1984
Jedinak, valeri, holman, wilkinson
1985
Kilkenny, federici Vukovic, Milligan
1987
Gulum, Djite, rukavystya, vidosic Elrich
1988
Sarota, Zullo, rhys williams, burns, meredith Langerak, spiranovic, troisi,kruse
1989
chris herd, shane lowry, james holland, bozanic, jovanovic, jurman, Devere, Mcgowan
1990
Behich, mehbratu, mrcela Mooy Malik, Bratten
1991
davidson, oar, duke leckie, JuricRyan Grant, Lustica
1992
James Jeggo, halloran, chapman Ryan, Wright, sains, luongo, rogicKantarovski, Risdon, ibini
1993
Josh Brilliante, Kenneth Dougall Irvine, Amini, mclaren Geria Taggart, antonis
1994
nick ansell, Dylan Tombides smith, degenekBrandon o'niell
1995
ikonimides, burgess, elder MabilStephan Mauk, Melling, Kamau
1996
Ajdin Hrustic, Jordan Lyden, karicic Aspro, Tongyik
1997
Anthony Kalik Gersbach De Silva Liam Rose Deng
1998
Aiden O'neill, Joe Caletti, Riley Mcgree
1999
Pasquali, Arzani
I underlined the prime age years. We don't have that many roos from those years so we should improve slightly over the next few years

Finally I see a bit of a plateau in quality until you get to the very young players. So I'm predicting a slight improvement over the next few years, a plateu then improvement again

Having said that it should be noted that promising young strikers and goal keepers are sparse

Very interesting information, Grazor.

1996 onwards could be an interesting team, those 26 or under at the 2022 world cup and pushing for a Socceroos starting spot and should be the key players for the 2026 world cup.
No goalkeeper listed but Daniel Margush is born 1997, but I am sure there are other options as well.
No striker although Folami could be a possible striker option from those years.

Margush
Deng - Aspro - Tongyik
Karicic - Rose - Caletti - Garsbach
Pasquali - De Silva
Folami

Of course we probably will not be playing this formation and there are many promising options for the DM spots. 
Gabriel Cleur is another right back worth watching.

Great post Grazorblade! 

I made a point awhile ago that the talent from the 1997 cohort onwards are promising for us going forward, so much for the critique of the NC and pathways from certain big names when the majority of the team have gone through the old development system.
Also, a couple of the 95s and 96s have some promise as well but after that gets interesting.

The development of the national team and Olympic team in the next few years will be interesting viewing.

Potential Socceroo team in 2022:                         Potential Olympic team 2020:


---------------Ryan----------------------                               ----------------Glover/Howard-Belle--------------

Degenek---------Sains-------Gersbach--                     --------Deng-----------Tongyik---------Rowles---

---------------Irvine-----------------------                           ---------------Caletti--------------McGree-----------

----Mooy-------------------Amini--------                         ----------------De Silva--------------Pasquali-------------

----------------Rogic----------------------                        ---Kamau------------------------------------------Hrustic----

--Mabil--------------------------Leckie--                       ----------------------------Roberts------------------------------

--------------McLaren/Juric-------------


Something like this but some promising players coming through, depending on their clubs and playing time, we have some talents.

Really hope Folami is the striker we have been hoping for, the most important position if you ask me and it is where we are weakest.

I've also got a feeling about John Roberts top goal scorer in an international cup recently in China, contained some of the best youth teams in Europe and apparently, people at Melb City have high hopes for him.

Our local tabloid usually has few stories on association football, particularly in Australia. 

 Comparatively, the Socceroo game against Japan has had stories on the match for weeks.

One massive a factor the media doesn't seem to be aware of, is that in the Japan v Saudi fixture next week the heat is going to be a massive factor.

Saudi heat at this  time of the year is scorching. I've lived in Kuwait, which is right  next door and probably a bit hotter than anywhere in Saudi Arabia. Most Saudi players are used to it as they play domestic football in their own country in the scorching heat. They will be much better acclimatised than Japan. 

Japan is  a lot cooler at this time of the year. Given they've already qualified, Japan could even send out an inexperienced youth team too. They could conceivably be partying hard as  the Saudi game has little importance for them.

They've already won the group and qualified for the World Cup. Comparatively, Saudi have everything to play for and will know  the result of our game before their kick off. At this point in time I think they have a 2 goal advantage on us.

The pressure will be on Australia to win against Thailand - and by a big margin.

There's some good names in there, I just hope they start getting regular gametime. It's a real indication of how bad our youth development is when we look at where these players are at:
> Daniel Margush played two or three games last season and looked good in all of them, making some excellent saves and looking very comfortable at A-League level. 100% he should be a starting regular for a team somewhere. Unfortunately he looks to be benched behind Paul Izzo this season.
> Thomas Deng wasted a season in the reserves at PSV, and will likely be a bench player this season.
> Jonathon Aspro is doing well, but it took him a season or two to cement his place. He definitely could have been in the senior team earlier.
> Ruon Tongyik didn't debut at senior level until he was 20. Imagine if he had been exposed to senior games as a younger teenager like most of the European and South American players are? He could easily be in his third or fourth senior season at this point. Instead he's going into his second this year and probably going to see more time on the bench so that some foreigner can play instead of him.
> Karacic has been called up at youth level for Croatia, and never got any opportunities to play here in Australia.
> Liam Rose, Joe Caletti, and Alex Gersbach are three outliers that actually got opportunities at a young age. I'm certain that all three of them will be in Europe by 2022.
> Pasquali was being benched while players like Rashid Mahazi (!) got to play more than him while at Melbourne Victory, and only managed two appearances in the A-League before he moved abroad to Ajax where he rotted away in limbo for a season.
> De Silva was excellent and a great example for young players during his time in the A-League. The only problem was that he left too early.
> Ben Folami never got any opportunities in the A-League, and went abroad as a teenager. Many others have slipped through the nets or failed to get picked up by the limited number of top flight teams in this country.

We have the potential to develop good players, but the current setup of our domestic league is strangling most opportunities to develop youth. On top of that, most A-League teams seem to be allergic to giving youth players opportunities in competitive senior games. There's a lot wrong with our youth development in this country.

Could still get Syria in the play off round on current results with 15 minutes to play

Looking at more options coming through for the future:
GK: Tom Glover, Jordan Holmes, Ashley Maynard-Brewer, Tom Heward-Belle.
LB: ? (Alex Gersbach seems to be the only one of note so far)
CB: Cameron Burgess, Con Ouzounidis, Dylan Ryan.
RB: Dylan Pierias, Gabriel Cleur.
CDM: Aiden O'Neill, Jordan Lyden, Isaac Danzo.
CM/CAM: Tom Prinsen, Marc Tokich, Denis Genreau, Louis D'Arrigo, Ramy Najjarine.
LW/RW: Christian Theoharous, Lachlan Brook, Tyrese Francois, Joel Rollinson. 
ST: Milislav Popovic, Deni Juric, John Roberts.

Many of the above are Australia-based OR would be achievable as loan players to give them senior experience. We need more players like these ones above to be playing every week here and then proving themselves with two-three strong seasons here and then moves to top leagues in Europe. Rinse and repeat.

South Korea Iran ends 0:0. Syria defeat Qatar and Uzbekistan lose in China. 

Iran Syria 
Qatar China
Uzbekistan Korea

Korea 14 +1
Syria 12 +1
Uzbekistan 12 -1
China 9 -3

China have pretty good cards as they can win away and Iran might get a high win. Uzbekistan and South Korea are playing off and the winner will likely qualify. A draw will be enough for South Korea. 

Jesus. China scores and now Syria is in 3rd. Next round is Iran/Syria, SK/Uzb, China/Qatar. In theory we could get one of any of them now.

Since the game thread v Thailand has disappeared, this might be  the most appropriate thread to post the following info.

I've had a look at the replay of the Thailand game, up to the 50 minute mark. It was a cracking game! We've had so many chances, particularly with Cahill and Mooy both hitting the post early.

One huge improvement has been Gersbach on as left wing back. Unfortunately, I have seen him do little  defending yet, which was his weakness when he played for SFC. Going forwards though, he  has vastly superior technique on the ball to Smith. 

His first touch, running with the ball, passing and moving within tight spaces are at a completely different level to Smith. He has provided considerable attacking impetus on the left flank.

At this state though I've see little of his jockeying, showing, delaying, tackling, etc, as Australia has had so much ball and possession. He looks pretty athletic too. Gersbach has improved considerably in a short period of time.

Another point made by others, is that Australia should've conceded at least one penalty. Sains was the culprit. Even though Australia should've scored umpteen goals at this stage of the game, so they should've conceded a penalty and possably two other free kicks on   the edge of the box.

I'm not sure why Ange didn't play Spira?

By his own standards, Milligan has had a worse game than usual at this stage  of the game. He probably isn't match fit.

Rogic has been better in the Thai game than against Japan, with some scintillating skill, but he has often been forced to receive facing towards his own goal and not facing forwards.


Mooy has payed very well to date, constantly passing accurately and switching balls to players in better positions.

Degenek, Sains and Wright have conceded some awful fouls, and should've had more awarded against them.

I'm surprised Thailand haven't accrued more points in this group. They've played some decent football when in possession of the ball.


If we don't qualify for Russia it could well be some time before we qualify for any WC again. I think our opponents have improved immeasurably, particularly tactically and physically, to augment their technical qualities.

We've also played England (saw 30 min of the second half), Greece (missed both of games) and, Germany, Chile and Cameroon at the Confed Cup. I thin the Asian opposition has decidedly closed the gap. 

A further reason we are treading water is FFA.

* They have not appointed a TD to replace Han Berger. Abrams has no jurisdiction over player solder than 16. Luk eCasserley is some sort of high performance analyst, but there is no TD to speak publicly on issues. There is no TD constantly revamping and refining the curriculum. Not having a TD is folly.

Ange's personal influence has effected the NC. It shouldn't. He has no long standing coach education role. His opinions are not based on empirical, evidence based research.




* Whilst expansion of the HAL,  the closing of the national COE has occurred, and HAL clubs and NPL clubs don't have well run academies in place, our competitors have improved their performances from what we've observed in this WCQ campaign. Our game is stagnating and being mismanaged by Lowy and Gallop.

Whatever they are doing, the Asian teams have closed any gap that may have been present. It  does not matter that some of our players play in big leagues in Europe. Some of our opponents  have players at least as good or better, playing in domestic Asian leagues, like the number 10 for Thailand, or the UAE's Abdul Rahman. Technically, we have no players as good or as special.

Gersbach won more tackles in the first 5 mins then Brad Smith did all game against Japan... Alex's ability to recover and win the ball back, or make simple pass or clearing.. just looks a more complete player than brad smith..

We really need Gersbach ATM.

Hopefully, we have found a stand out for the LB position for some time.

"Rogic has been better in the Thai game than against Japan, with some scintillating skill, but he has often been forced to receive facing towards his own goal and not facing forwards".

probably because the thais are closer to the level he plays at club.  he is in a superior team playing against weak opposition.  he doesnt have to improve and push himself to look good.

i thought behich was excellent in confeds.  such a step up from smith.  very composed on the ball and sturdy in defence.

I agree, its amazing what playing week in week out does, smith just seems to run aimlessly, he's a bit like Mitch Austin in that regard.

With all due respect, I reckon this is a bit harsh. He was more than decent when he played Man City.

Imo, much of Rogic's form is dependent on the form of his teammates. It's got little or nothing to do with the quality of his opponent. Rogic had nothing to work with against Japan. It made for painful viewing. He'd get the ball, he'd be double-marked and there would be nobody for him to utilise. That's not his fault.

The thing is at Celtic he has worked with competent attacking footballers who make good runs, are clinical finishers and great athletes. There's basically nobody in the NT who has all those traits.

stupidly I forgot about connor chapman. He is also from 1994. There are probably some other decent players to add. I'd like suggestions to make it more complete (although the red category will be a little subjective. Chapman at least falls into the blue category)

So I was thinking I expect that we will soon get around about 5-6 players playing regularly in the big 5 over the next 5-6 years. I think we have a 3rd of the aussie players playing in the a league as we did back when the golden generation existed and we will probably end up with a 3rd of the players who make it to a similar level. So the quality of pathway has become good enough but the quantity is lacking. Hopefully this aafc proposal for a 2nd division gets off the ground