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Vanlassen
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+xFirstly .....I don't think Smith should be in the squad let alone the starting eleven. I would prefer almost anyone there other than him....Gersbach ? So if Australia beat Thailand 4-0 and we qualify will all this bleeding heart stuff still be going on ? To be fair to Ange he has quite poor cattle to work with. Yes ...he has them playing a style that many can't handle but he is looking far ahead . We can't go on simply playing physical bash me football forever as it may get us to World Cups but we will win nothing once there. We had to change our style at some point. Ange has done that and it was a brave thing to do . To compare him to Pim and Holger is ridiculous...both had players playing regularly in Europe and both had ageing golden Generation players. They also had a brief to simply get us to qualify...and nothing else....and it showed once we actually tried to play in the World Cup under them ...we were a joke. Ange has A-league players and second and third division players.With those players he is trying to change our style and culture. No one said it would be without pain. Even if we don't quaiify I hope we continue on this path as I have no desire to watch us go back to hoof ball...even if it wins us a few games here and there ,we will never win anyone's respect . We have to learn to play. We have to evolve ...and that will involve some pain. ......also which one of you actually thought we were certainties to beat Japan... in Japan ? nobody does ! ..including Australia ! Football is a game of inches. If Leckie's shot against the post had snuck in the whole game could have been totally different. Ange has ordinary players believing in themselves. He has to exude confidence if he wants his players to believe in themselves and him. That's why he appears arrogant. I think he is doing a magnificent job. He will make mistakes along the way and he has ...but that is how you learn . Everyone needs to chill a little ... Speaking of Chill.....don't forget how we played against Chile. We can do it ... we just need more consistency ...and that will take years . I get what you are saying and, for the most part, I agree. Everyone on this thread is venting their frustration at a system which is obviously not working. Ange's style of play is fantastic to watch when it works (that one game against Chile, hooray) but it is god-awful to watch when it is not working (every game that we didn't play Chile). If we win big on Tuesday and qualify, all of Ange's supporter who are remaining silent will come out of the woodwork saying "I told you so" but if we have to rely on Japan getting a point against KSA to qualify, I guarantee you the people on here will not change their tone. The fact is we struggled for the most part against the UAE (both times), we were lucky to get the draw against Iraq, we struggled against Saudi Arabia which we were lucky to get the win and we drew to Thailand. It has been woeful.
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tsf
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Iceland didn;t have the cattle at last Euros either...what they did have though was a manager who knew how to play to their strengths and not weaknesses.
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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+x+x+xOur playing stocks are a bigger problem then our manager. I mean look at the Aussies abroad thread, we get excited over players getting moves to smaller clubs and leagues and can't believe when managers don't give our players more game time when qualifying campaigns like this show that they're probably simply not good enough. Sure we could bring in a manager to park the bus anytime we come up against decent opposition and might get slightly better results, but we've done that before and everybody complained then too. I'm not saying Ange is the ultimate answer, but we paid him to do a job and we'll know if he's done it after Tuesday night. Here we go again, settling for mediocrity, like we did with Pim and Holger. We are a mediocre side no doubt, but we shouldn't be fighting with Saudi Arabia and UAE for a spot at the world cup. Since when is being the second team in the world to qualify, and i think undefeated, plus 4 points at the World Cup "mediocre"? We look at our players and pump them up to be something they are not. Because "we Australia, we mentality, we never say die, we won't die wondering" blah blah blah. Outside managers look at what is in front of them without any of that nonsense clouding their judgement.
Maybe the Aussie way is to sit at home in front of the TV at 4 in the morning watching other nations play in the World Cup. What a load of ballony Yeah the "Aussie Spirit" is actually.
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crimsoncrusoe
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Unfortunately for all the promise,Ange has not delivered.From his early days in charge to now,with mostly the same players,we have not improved.Infact defensively we are worse lately.
We struggle to beat weaker sides and the best we can do against better sides is draw.
You can argue that's all we can expect given our players,but regularly playing players who are not match fit,playing players out of position ,playing defensively vulnerable formations and continually changing the team,all fall on the coach.
Anges brave attacking style has its defensive risks and when things are not going right you can easily lpse a lot of games.
Whether a new coach would do much better is doubtful. He would no doubt tighten up defence,but we would probably end up where Ange picked up from.
I don't think Arnie is the messiah either.When things aren't going his way his teams look pretty average.At SFC his key players are foreigners.
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433
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+xIceland didn;t have the cattle at last Euros either...what they did have though was a manager who knew how to play to their strengths and not weaknesses. Yup But nah we're Australia and we're going to go out there and never say die and don't die wondering blah blah blah We'd be pretty comfortable in Asia if we just had a coach who played with a strong defence and two holders, then pacey wingers with a big number 9. It's old fashioned but it plays to our strengths over most Asian teams - pace and physicality. Langerak Degenek - Sains - Spira - Gersbach Milligan - Mooy Leckie - Rogic - Kruse Juric
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slipperypigeon
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+x+xIceland didn;t have the cattle at last Euros either...what they did have though was a manager who knew how to play to their strengths and not weaknesses. Yup But nah we're Australia and we're going to go out there and never say die and don't die wondering blah blah blah We'd be pretty comfortable in Asia if we just had a coach who played with a strong defence and two holders, then pacey wingers with a big number 9. It's old fashioned but it plays to our strengths over most Asian teams - pace and physicality. Langerak Degenek - Sains - Spira - Gersbach Milligan - Mooy Leckie - Rogic - Kruse Juric What you are saying makes too much sense. There is a certain way to approach international football. Ange treats the socceroos too much like club football.
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hames_jetfield
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4-2-3-1 The same formations that both Pim and Holger used effectively but were still heavily criticised for using this formation that people now want Ange to use.
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StudzUp
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+xFirstly .....I don't think Smith should be in the squad let alone the starting eleven. I would prefer almost anyone there other than him....Gersbach ? So if Australia beat Thailand 4-0 and we qualify will all this bleeding heart stuff still be going on ? To be fair to Ange he has quite poor cattle to work with. Yes ...he has them playing a style that many can't handle but he is looking far ahead . We can't go on simply playing physical bash me football forever as it may get us to World Cups but we will win nothing once there. We had to change our style at some point. Ange has done that and it was a brave thing to do . To compare him to Pim and Holger is ridiculous...both had players playing regularly in Europe and both had ageing golden Generation players. They also had a brief to simply get us to qualify...and nothing else....and it showed once we actually tried to play in the World Cup under them ...we were a joke. Ange has A-league players and second and third division players.With those players he is trying to change our style and culture. No one said it would be without pain. Even if we don't quaiify I hope we continue on this path as I have no desire to watch us go back to hoof ball...even if it wins us a few games here and there ,we will never win anyone's respect . We have to learn to play. We have to evolve ...and that will involve some pain. ......also which one of you actually thought we were certainties to beat Japan... in Japan ? nobody does ! ..including Australia ! Football is a game of inches. If Leckie's shot against the post had snuck in the whole game could have been totally different. Ange has ordinary players believing in themselves. He has to exude confidence if he wants his players to believe in themselves and him. That's why he appears arrogant. I think he is doing a magnificent job. He will make mistakes along the way and he has ...but that is how you learn . Everyone needs to chill a little ... Speaking of Chill.....don't forget how we played against Chile. We can do it ... we just need more consistency ...and that will take years . Totally Agree Cant believe everyone is turning on Ange like this - its pathetic Ange has done so much for the Roos.. won our 1st major trophy EVER, brought through a new generation (something Holger and Pim were too pussy to do to the detriment of the Roos), gave us a new playing style that we could be proud of. Fuk the haters Cant wait till we qualify Tuesday and you all look like big old D's
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433
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+x+xFirstly .....I don't think Smith should be in the squad let alone the starting eleven. I would prefer almost anyone there other than him....Gersbach ? So if Australia beat Thailand 4-0 and we qualify will all this bleeding heart stuff still be going on ? To be fair to Ange he has quite poor cattle to work with. Yes ...he has them playing a style that many can't handle but he is looking far ahead . We can't go on simply playing physical bash me football forever as it may get us to World Cups but we will win nothing once there. We had to change our style at some point. Ange has done that and it was a brave thing to do . To compare him to Pim and Holger is ridiculous...both had players playing regularly in Europe and both had ageing golden Generation players. They also had a brief to simply get us to qualify...and nothing else....and it showed once we actually tried to play in the World Cup under them ...we were a joke. Ange has A-league players and second and third division players.With those players he is trying to change our style and culture. No one said it would be without pain. Even if we don't quaiify I hope we continue on this path as I have no desire to watch us go back to hoof ball...even if it wins us a few games here and there ,we will never win anyone's respect . We have to learn to play. We have to evolve ...and that will involve some pain. ......also which one of you actually thought we were certainties to beat Japan... in Japan ? nobody does ! ..including Australia ! Football is a game of inches. If Leckie's shot against the post had snuck in the whole game could have been totally different. Ange has ordinary players believing in themselves. He has to exude confidence if he wants his players to believe in themselves and him. That's why he appears arrogant. I think he is doing a magnificent job. He will make mistakes along the way and he has ...but that is how you learn . Everyone needs to chill a little ... Speaking of Chill.....don't forget how we played against Chile. We can do it ... we just need more consistency ...and that will take years . Totally Agree Cant believe everyone is turning on Ange like this - its pathetic Ange has done so much for the Roos.. won our 1st major trophy EVER, brought through a new generation (something Holger and Pim were too pussy to do to the detriment of the Roos), gave us a new playing style that we could be proud of. Fuk the haters Cant wait till we qualify Tuesday and you all look like big old D's Yeah because putting 5 past Thailand - the worst team in the group with literally nothing to play for - makes up for this abomination of a qualifying campaign. No point boasting about a "new playing style to be proud of" if we can't score from open play and leave ourselves exposed time and time again at the back. FMD.
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StudzUp
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+x+x+xFirstly .....I don't think Smith should be in the squad let alone the starting eleven. I would prefer almost anyone there other than him....Gersbach ? So if Australia beat Thailand 4-0 and we qualify will all this bleeding heart stuff still be going on ? To be fair to Ange he has quite poor cattle to work with. Yes ...he has them playing a style that many can't handle but he is looking far ahead . We can't go on simply playing physical bash me football forever as it may get us to World Cups but we will win nothing once there. We had to change our style at some point. Ange has done that and it was a brave thing to do . To compare him to Pim and Holger is ridiculous...both had players playing regularly in Europe and both had ageing golden Generation players. They also had a brief to simply get us to qualify...and nothing else....and it showed once we actually tried to play in the World Cup under them ...we were a joke. Ange has A-league players and second and third division players.With those players he is trying to change our style and culture. No one said it would be without pain. Even if we don't quaiify I hope we continue on this path as I have no desire to watch us go back to hoof ball...even if it wins us a few games here and there ,we will never win anyone's respect . We have to learn to play. We have to evolve ...and that will involve some pain. ......also which one of you actually thought we were certainties to beat Japan... in Japan ? nobody does ! ..including Australia ! Football is a game of inches. If Leckie's shot against the post had snuck in the whole game could have been totally different. Ange has ordinary players believing in themselves. He has to exude confidence if he wants his players to believe in themselves and him. That's why he appears arrogant. I think he is doing a magnificent job. He will make mistakes along the way and he has ...but that is how you learn . Everyone needs to chill a little ... Speaking of Chill.....don't forget how we played against Chile. We can do it ... we just need more consistency ...and that will take years . Totally Agree Cant believe everyone is turning on Ange like this - its pathetic Ange has done so much for the Roos.. won our 1st major trophy EVER, brought through a new generation (something Holger and Pim were too pussy to do to the detriment of the Roos), gave us a new playing style that we could be proud of. Fuk the haters Cant wait till we qualify Tuesday and you all look like big old D's Yeah because putting 5 past Thailand - the worst team in the group with literally nothing to play for - makes up for this abomination of a qualifying campaign. No point boasting about a "new playing style to be proud of" if we can't score from open play and leave ourselves exposed time and time again at the back. FMD. So gaining automatic qualification to the world cup wont be good enough?
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Tom Rogics Foot
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Blah blah Ange blah blah blah smith blah blah blah golden generation blah blah blah golfer blah blah blah I'll KFC that parrot
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Lastbroadcast
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I still believe Ange has been a net positive for the Socceroos, as he won the Asian cup, had us playing attractive football for a few years and brought on the next generation. These things wouldn't have happened if we had hired someone else at that time.
In the past 12 months he has completely lost the plot. I don't know why he decided to change the formation that won the Asian cup, but every tactical change he has made since then has been a disaster.
If we don't qualify he should certainly be replaced.
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Angus
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+x+x+xNo Australian coach is currently good enough to be the NT coach. Agreed. We need to go back to a foreign coach, one that can work with what they've got without being either of the two extremes (Holger or Ange). Pim and Holger deservedly get criticism from their times in charge, but at least they got us to automatic qualification to the world cup. If Pim of Holger were in this position they would of been sacked I hated Pim and thought Holger was under qualified to coach Australia but they were both leagues ahead of Ange Holger was in this position
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agga78
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Ange lost the plot tactically from the first Japan game onwards, he went 442, then 352 , instead of sticking with 433 which we were doing ok with. The goals we concede and it's multiple goals a game against good sides , are from our mistakes, keeper playing a daft pass to a defender, a defender playing an impossible pass to the midfield (that's the major one) , we lose the ball it ends up 3 on 3 or 4 on 3 and we concede a goal.
Japan are dead set average, the worst they have been in 2 decades, instead of controlling possession like they used to, they gave us the ball and let us eventually fcuk a pass and hit us on the break.
If we had played on the counter, we would of got the point we needed, only the very best can play out from the back under pressure, the rest play longer passes into midfield, to ensure they do not lose possession in such crucial areas.
International football is about results and Ange has made it about style and that went out the window after Brazil 1970, it has all been about results since, ask the Dutch or Brazil 1982 if the beautiful football was worth it.
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jas88
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I think its starting to become obvious this system, is only good for tournaments... because at some point you will play a tired team(Chile) and the pressing will eventually work but ottherwise top teams will just have a strategic press and we will lose every time.
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Oblivious Troll
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A few years back Jonathon Wilson wrote: In the club game, in which players train together every day for 40 weeks a year and play perhaps 50 matches a season, it’s possible to generate a highly detailed level of mutual understanding. At international level, in which coaches have players for perhaps a week at a time six times a year, it’s impossible.
https://www.theblizzard.co.uk/article/why-world-cup-boring
And that's where are at especially with the current group who are not necessarily as skilled as they might be.
I thought one positive from last night was Luongo's performance. He didn't seem to give up - which even I did as the second goal went in the telly went off.
Another positive is that unlike the Australian cricket team at least we were beaten by a first world country.
Its a game for everyone. Its not pale, male, or stale. It transcends race, gender, economic status. Its for everyone. - Tal Karp
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rusty
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I love these idiots defending Ange and his suicidal tactics, as if somehow playing out from the back and giving away possession and conceding goals is somehow consistent with modern, fashionable football.
The simple reality is we dont have the cattle to safely play out of the back and retain possesion like the good teams do. The difference is the good teams are technically adept and have been playing that way their whole lives, whereas our players are playing in hack leagues like the championship or are simply hacks themselves.
Theres no evidence at all that Ange is creating a platform for future generations to follow and if we keep playing this way that we will eventually start playing like Barthelona. By all means experiment with kids but with the senior national team is just daft given the worst thing that could happen to football in this country is missing the world cup.
No one is suggesting we have to play hoofball but Ange's suicidal tactics are not working and just madness that could cost us a seat at the world cup. We can play a positive brand of football conducive to our strength and be confident enough in ourselves to compete rather than just pretend to play like a poor mans Barca.
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99 Problems
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I don't really like the system Ange is using, but I think it's pretty ridiculous to think that playing more pragmatic football would suddenly turn playing pool into world beaters. People keep talking as if we have somehow become a nation that expects a spot at every World Cup.
At the end of the day it all comes down to this week. If we qualify then Ange has ticked every box asked of him, and has earned the right to take us to Russia. If not then his time is up. Just think the Japanese coach was a loss last night away from losing his job, now he's leading a team in a World Cup. Football is a funny game sometimes.
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socceroo_06
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The only proven coach with international pedigree from a local perspective is Poppa.
He's the only coach to have won a continental trophy away from home under pressure.
If it ain't him, then go for another foreign coach under Ange.
Anyone but Arnie...
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433
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+xWell, as long as it's feminine penis ("fenis"), then it's not gay. traps are gay bro dunno what this comment has to do with Ange though
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kavorka
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heh this time 5 years back holger and pim were ripped to shreds for being too defensive, saying that they weren't putting our talented players to use etc
10 years back we had a roster of players all regularly playing top flight football. now we barely have one (mooy)
people need to wake up to reality, this current generation just doesn't have the talent and where we are at is a fair reflection
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WSF
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+xheh this time 5 years back holger and pim were ripped to shreds for being too defensive, saying that they weren't putting our talented players to use etc 10 years back we had a roster of players all regularly playing top flight football. now we barely have one (mooy) people need to wake up to reality, this current generation just doesn't have the talent and where we are at is a fair reflection Ange is the one that needs to wake up, yes the current generation is below average so that means you have to play a style that suits them ffs.
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Nachoman
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+x+x+xIceland didn;t have the cattle at last Euros either...what they did have though was a manager who knew how to play to their strengths and not weaknesses. Yup But nah we're Australia and we're going to go out there and never say die and don't die wondering blah blah blah We'd be pretty comfortable in Asia if we just had a coach who played with a strong defence and two holders, then pacey wingers with a big number 9. It's old fashioned but it plays to our strengths over most Asian teams - pace and physicality. Langerak Degenek - Sains - Spira - Gersbach Milligan - Mooy Leckie - Rogic - Kruse Juric What you are saying makes too much sense. There is a certain way to approach international football. Ange treats the socceroos too much like club football. That formation ( 4-2-3-1 ) works....we have the squad to do it. Honestly , if we dont qualify , i see Gombau as our next coach... At least he has a plan B and moulds a team to its strengths
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City Sam
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+xheh this time 5 years back holger and pim were ripped to shreds for being too defensive, saying that they weren't putting our talented players to use etc 10 years back we had a roster of players all regularly playing top flight football. now we barely have one (mooy) people need to wake up to reality, this current generation just doesn't have the talent and where we are at is a fair reflection We have a good spine, we have good goalkeepers in which the best don't start but from there we have Sainsbury who is brilliant, Milligan who is always great for the NT, Mooy speaks for itself, Rogic who is technically amazing and Juric is a good striker who is scoring regular goals at the minute. Then the likes of Leckie and Kruse are good players who are easily part of the top wingers in this confederation. We have enough talent, the gaffer however is getting the worst from most.
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433
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A good manager recognizes the strengths and limitations of his team. In Australia's case - relative to Asia - we are quick, tall and strong in defence when it's set up properly. We are not a fluid, technical team full of passers like Spain or dribblers like Brazil, so we shouldn't try to be.
In international football, a manager creates a strategy around the players at his disposal because he obviously can't go out and buy some more. In club football (which I think what Ange is trying to do here) you are capable of building a strategy and going after players to fit into your system.
Ange has got it reversed.
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99 Problems
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Isn't the whole football strategy built around the national team playing a proactive, possession based game, that filters all the way down through the junior teams?
Replacing Ange won't mean we suddenly start playing with a back four, a stacked midfielder and a quick target up front getting in behind on the counter. It'll just mean a new manager playing to a pretty similar philosophy.
I'm not saying it's how it should be, but it's the road we've committed to.
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Waz
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99 problems
A back three is new and we could drop it tomorrow. Even Ange could drop it tomorrow
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99 Problems
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Of course, and I think we should. But it won't change our overall philosophy. My point more was that no matter who the manager is, we're not going to start sitting deep and playing on the counter.
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Escobar Caesar
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Players that need to be given the permanent bullet from the team after Jap game - Brad Smith and Mat Ryan . The others didn't play too badly but I agree with majority of posters here , unless Ange is willing to become more flexible with his systems based on the situations going on in the game he too needs to get the bullet !!!!!
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T-UNIT
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+xIf we don't qualify he should certainly be replaced. He has already said he's leaving once the WC campaign is over. So basically, if we qualify, he stays, if we miss out, he walks on his own terms. The malaka has beat the system.
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