Sadly Ange's arrogance has outgrown his ability. Now it's one thing to play Barthelona esque football in the A league when you have control of the team 24/7 and the speed of the game is 1 mph, its another to do it in a crucial world cup qualifier playing against quality opposition when your cattle has the first touch of an elephant. Ange persists playing suicidal football from the back in the imaginary hope that someday it will suddenly click and we transform into Barthelona out there. How many goals and shaky moments do we need to concede before Ange realises his arrogant tactics are killing us and have jeapordised our chances of world cup qualification? My guess is there is no amount of goals because Ange is convinced he's a coaching demigod and is incapable of admitting he his philosophy, while ambitious, his implementation of it is deeply flawed and doesnt reflect the capabilities of the players. Only an idiot would continually play suicidal football from the back when we keep conceding goals and giving away possession and there literally nothing to be gained other than looking like a try hard Barthelona. We also look stilted in the final third, Ange seems to think if we just knock the ball around like Barthelona eventually a space will open up and we will score goals, the only time we look threatening is when we play direct.

Part of me hopes we dont automatically qualify, hopefully Ange will get sacked and we can get someone whose head isnt in their @rse and will get us playing football conducive to our strength. If we go to the world cup with Ange as our coach we will get absolutely slaughtered.

Completely agree.

Tony Popovic would be far better suited to the rigors of Asian WC qualifying. A strong defence, no bullshit passing out from the back at every opportunity and play on the counter. That's how you beat these teams.

Arnie In

Yup.

No Australian coach is currently good enough to be the NT coach. 

This. 

Lol great minds think alike 

We have some coaches who have some potential but we dont have many to choose from, you need someone with a ton of experience coaching especially at international level and we just dont have that calibre of coach yet in our system, maybe Arnie but hes quite a progmatic coach. 
A coach that can get the very best out of every player and not pigeon hole to a system. 

But the elephant in the room should not be the coach, Ange is quite a skilled coach but like with any team you need the quality and at the moment we just dont have that enough. 

This. 

Australian national team coach is one of the best paying National team coach positions in the world we should be going for world class or just below that nothing less

Agreed.
We need to go back to a foreign coach, one that can work with what they've got without being either of the two extremes (Holger or Ange).
Pim and Holger deservedly get criticism from their times in charge, but at least they got us to automatic qualification to the world cup.

The interview with Ange just sums it up. He has no idea what went wrong and what to do. Just cause Arnie done alright Sydney doesn't mean he even close to the roos. He hasn't change at all since his CCM days and roos Asian cup.

If Pim of Holger were in this position they would of been sacked 

I hated Pim and thought Holger was under qualified to coach Australia but they were both leagues ahead of Ange 

Holger was in this position

I'm a goalkeeper coach in Holland ill voulenteer to teach Ryan positioning?

Does the positioning involve him being moved to the bench?

:)

I'm with you as well.  It's nice to have a local if there is one good enough but there isn't. 

Anyway Ange will be there until the end of the world cup or until we fail to qualify probably 

Arnie would be a better choice than Ange at the moment. 

Next coach needs to be someone with Euro pedigree imo.

We've tried the Aussie made, home grown Vegemite way and it got us an Asian Cup but sadly we're teetering on the edge of not making the next WC now.

Time for fresh insight.

-PB

Ahhh the daggers are out..
On the post game interview Ange looked like he was at breaking point .
It's sad it's come to this.He has done a lot for football in Australia.But his inflexibility looks like being his downfall.
We could easily have stacked the defence this game with fast wingers and Macca waiting for counter attacking opportunities,which would have come with Japan needing to win.We only needed a draw.
I can't say I'm looking forward to Arnie being National coach though.His style is very dutch and defensive.We will be getting monstered most games ,waiting for the one or two counter attacking opportunities.

I didn't see the post game interview, say anything interesting?

City Sam,
He basically said he was dissappointed with the way we played,he took full responsibility for the result,looked down at the ground and seemed like he wanted to cry. The gravity of the situation seemed to catch up with hime.Before he kept saying we were going to qualify amd now it's out of our hands.So he couldn't continue with the same mantra and was left speechless as to what next.Simon Hill left it at that.

Ah okay, thanks for that.

He looked shocked at the result and completely unable to comprehend what went wrong.

Bozza for coach

I was crucified for bringing this up a few years back. Truth is the Asian cup (of which they beat average teams at home, and did lose to sk in group games anyway) papered over ange's cracks ewwwww but you get my point.

I agree. I didn't notice it at the time, but lately I have been thinking the Asian Cup win was the worst thing that could have happened to Australia football at the time.

spain has ruined ryan

Well said OP, pretty much sums it up.

Ange is as arrogant a coach as i have ever seen. He thinks he is Mourinho but in reality he is Steve Mcclaren.

No fecking idea on how create a team out of the players he has, he expects the players to suit his Barca type of setup which a total of zero of the players do for their clubs.
Sorry Postanoclue but you are a fraud

Ange makes our best players play badly.

And this here is the exact reason.

Making a player play out of position or not to their strengths, the constant always playing out the back even when the defense is shagged, inability to be flexible and change shit on the fly.

Just all of it.

-PB

Is he the coach to take you guys through the play offs? 

im in no way convinced saudi can pull off a winagainst japan with the pressure on, still alot of mind games to play out

Have actually beaten a team ranked higher than us under Ange?

That one time in late 2013 when we beat Costa Rica I think. I think it was Ange's first game or second (don't remember who managed the 3-0 win over Canada).

I cut and paste this from TSF's Ange Watch post

Teams beaten:

Bangaladesh
Tajikistan
Costa Rica
Saudi Arabia
Kuwait
Oman
China
United Arab Emirates
South Korea (after extra time)
Krygyzstan
Japan x 2
Jordan
Greece

Lost to

Greece
Jordan
South Korea
Japan x 2
Ecuador
England
Croatia
Chile
Spain
Netherlands
Belgium
Brazil

Drawn against

Thailand
Macedonia
United Arab Emirates
South Africa
Germany
Iraq
Cameroon
Chile

LOL Arnie, he had a breakdown less than 18 months ago. He needs way more therapy to get back. 

Also he shot himself in the foot over save the nix, too outspoken. Frank doesnt want that. 

I would rather watch the team under Ange any day to some 3rd rate European who has us playing like cowards.

I'd still like to keep Ange but if we needed a replacement, Arnie would be the strongest candidate.

Fuck Fuck Fuck. Ange won't change.
Anyway, if he smashes Thailand I have no problem. But he is getting lazy and a little self-destructive now
Seems to not care. That lineup was horrendous. Kruse up front, thought he learned already

Agree on his stubbornness and style but on paper we are the second best side in the group.  That is where we will finish. 

On paper we are currently the third best

Our playing stocks are a bigger problem then our manager. I mean look at the Aussies abroad thread, we get excited over players getting moves to smaller clubs and leagues and can't believe when managers don't give our players more game time when qualifying campaigns like this show that they're probably simply not good enough.

Sure we could bring in a manager to park the bus anytime we come up against decent opposition and might get slightly better results, but we've done that before and everybody complained then too. I'm not saying Ange is the ultimate answer, but we paid him to do a job and we'll know if he's done it after Tuesday night.

Here we go again, settling for mediocrity, like we did with Pim and Holger.  We are a mediocre side no doubt, but we shouldn't be fighting with Saudi Arabia and UAE for a spot at the world cup.

Since when is being the second team in the world to qualify, and i think undefeated, plus 4 points at the World Cup "mediocre"?

We look at our players and pump them up to be something they are not.  Because "we Australia, we mentality, we never say die, we won't die wondering" blah blah blah.

Outside managers look at what is in front of them without any of that nonsense clouding their judgement.

Maybe the Aussie way is to sit at home in front of the TV at 4 in the morning watching other nations play in the World Cup.  

What a load of ballony

Yeah the "Aussie Spirit" is actually.

I must say, his persistence with a formation and style the team has never looked comfortable with amplifies his inability to adjust and admit he is wrong.

But also playing his favourites ahead of those who are actually playing club football week in week out must send the wrong message to the rest of the team.

Whilst Ange has been good for the game, his partial success seems to have gone to his head.

Four draws and a loss in Asian qualifying is disastrous. Proof his 'style' and formation does not work. What a limp performance, sack him before the Thai game.
I am an avid Vuck fan but would much rather Arnie in, at least he would provide structure and you might be able to actually decifer what his intentions are in terms of setting up and playing style.

Anges original weaknesses to international football have been found wanting. He is inflexible and always has been. The Asian cup success came at a time when things were new and his style was unknown to the other nations. But now he's been exposed completely. Coupled with his stubbornness/inability to adapt his style and we are fucked.

Firstly .....I don't think Smith should be in the squad let alone the starting eleven.
I would prefer almost anyone there other than him....Gersbach ?

So if Australia beat Thailand 4-0 and we qualify will all this bleeding heart stuff still be going on ?

To be fair to Ange he has quite poor cattle to work with. Yes ...he has them playing a style that many can't handle but he is looking far ahead .
We can't go on simply playing physical bash me football forever as it may get us to World Cups but we will win nothing once there.
We had to change our style at some point.
Ange has done that and it was a brave thing to do .

To compare him to Pim and Holger is ridiculous...both had players playing regularly in Europe and both had ageing golden Generation players.
They also had a brief to simply get us to qualify...and nothing else....and it showed once we actually tried to play in the World Cup under them ...we were a joke.

Ange has A-league players and second and third division players.With those players he is trying to change our style and culture. No one said it would be without pain.
Even if we don't quaiify I hope we continue on this path as I have no desire to watch us go back to hoof ball...even if it wins us a few games here and there ,we will never win anyone's respect .
We have to learn to play. We have to evolve ...and that will involve some pain.

......also which one of you actually thought we were certainties to beat Japan... in Japan ? nobody does ! ..including Australia !
Football is a game of inches. If Leckie's shot against the post had snuck in the whole game could have been totally different.
Ange has ordinary players believing in themselves.  He has to exude confidence if he wants his players to believe in themselves and him.
That's why he appears arrogant.
I think he is doing a magnificent job. He will make mistakes along the way and he has ...but that is how you learn .
Everyone needs to chill a little ...
Speaking of Chill.....don't forget how we played against Chile.
We can do it ... we just need more consistency ...and that will take years .

Many people, just need to go back and read the comments after the Saudi loss :laugh:

Eveyone keeps on going look how we played against chile. WE DIDNT WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
international football is about winning, doing best with the cattle you have and grinding out results. 
Embarrassing is getting 0 points in a world cup, it is leaking goals away from home against minows while having the lead. 
Are you happy we had 58% of doing sweet fuck all last night. We played a nice posession game didn't we?
International football is about winning, Ange has the worst record out of the managers. Living after the glory days of his asian cup, which we always do well in and should do well in. 

I get what you are saying and, for the most part, I agree. Everyone on this thread is venting their frustration at a system which is obviously not working. Ange's style of play is fantastic to watch when it works (that one game against Chile, hooray) but it is god-awful to watch when it is not working (every game that we didn't play Chile). If we win big on Tuesday and qualify, all of Ange's supporter who are remaining silent will come out of the woodwork saying "I told you so" but if we have to rely on Japan getting a point against KSA to qualify, I guarantee you the people on here will not change their tone.

The fact is we struggled for the most part against the UAE (both times), we were lucky to get the draw against Iraq, we struggled against Saudi Arabia which we were lucky to get the win and we drew to Thailand. It has been woeful.

Totally Agree

Cant believe everyone is turning on Ange like this - its pathetic
Ange has done so much for the Roos.. won our 1st major trophy EVER, brought through a new generation (something Holger and Pim were too pussy to do to the detriment of the Roos), gave us a new playing style that we could be proud of.

Fuk the haters

Cant wait till we qualify Tuesday and you all look like big old D's

Yeah because putting 5 past Thailand - the worst team in the group with literally nothing to play for - makes up for this abomination of a qualifying campaign. No point boasting about a "new playing style to be proud of" if we can't score from open play and leave ourselves exposed time and time again at the back. FMD.

So gaining automatic qualification to the world cup wont be good enough?

As a Roar supporter, the game last night was reminiscent of the games for Roar against FNQ etc  with Ange in charge. Lots of huff and puff and little end product. Roar managed to grind out enough wins as we had, among others, Broich, but Australia doesn't have such luxuries.

As soon as the UAE result came in Ange should have parked the bus, with four at the back, Milligan in position and play for a draw. Squad selection once more was the problem, with Ange playing favourites.

No Jedinak in the squad because he needs to play a few matches to get his place back, but the squad is full of players that play more for Australia than their clubs, Smith, Sainsbury, Langerak. Spiranovic is playing park football and Kruse was without a club for while.

No Aziz Behich who plays more games every season than Smith and Gersbach have played in their careers.

Robbie Kruse as lone striker, the least physically imposing player to ever wear the green and gold.

And going back to Brazil no second RB despite Franjic carrying an injury, with that donkey McGowan allowing the opposition to stroll through at will, just like he still does.

Ange has lost the plot. He's let his previous successes go to his head and thinks he's the messiah. His decisions now are idiotic. 

The furthest forward player we had scores for us at a rate of 0.07 goals per game. FFS.  Easiest clean sheet japans ever got. 

There's a few managers that are currently not working that I reckon would do well for us and are realistic appointments - as in, not so young as to want day to day club football.

Some with international experience like Laurent Blanc, Sam Allardyce (lel no thanks) and some without that I reckon would be decent appointments like Martin Jol and Walter Mazzari - Not that I reckon any of those would accept the position.

Personally I would like to see someone like Jol or maybe even Klaus Augenthaler in charge. Their knowledge of Aussies and the A League would obviously be well, non-existent but if we're going away from Aussie mangers what can we expect?

I don't think Arnie is the right choice (again... yet). He had his chance already and ballsed it completely. His old school style probably doesn't do too well with a group of guys that barely see each other and then have to play together.

I don't think there's a suitable coach in Australia today that could take the Roo's forward so I'm hoping we'll go foreign again.

Arnie?

Puke.

-PB

arnie would have ratcheted up the pre match mind games so far japan would have forfeited because half their team would have had mental breakdown

Let's get some tactically astute German or Dutch or whatever coach to qualify us for the World Cups then bring in Ange for the actual tournaments.

Iceland didn;t have the cattle at last Euros either...what they did have though was a manager who knew how to play to their strengths and not weaknesses. 

Yup

But nah we're Australia and we're going to go out there and never say die and don't die wondering blah blah blah

We'd be pretty comfortable in Asia if we just had a coach who played with a strong defence and two holders, then pacey wingers with a big number 9. It's old fashioned but it plays to our strengths over most Asian teams - pace and physicality. 

What you are saying makes too much sense. There is a certain way to approach international football.
Ange treats the socceroos too much like club football.

That formation  ( 4-2-3-1 ) works....we have the squad to do it.

Honestly , if we dont qualify , i see Gombau as our next coach... At least he has a plan B and moulds a team to its strengths

Unfortunately for all the promise,Ange has not delivered.From his early days in charge to now,with mostly the same players,we have not improved.Infact defensively we are worse lately.
We struggle to beat weaker sides and the best we can do against better sides is draw.
You can argue that's all we can expect given our players,but regularly playing players who are not match fit,playing players out of position ,playing defensively vulnerable formations and continually changing the team,all fall on the coach.
Anges brave attacking style has its defensive risks and when things are not going right you can easily lpse a lot of games.
Whether a new coach would do much better is doubtful. He would no doubt tighten up defence,but we would probably end up where Ange picked up from.
I don't think Arnie is the messiah either.When things aren't going his way his teams look pretty average.At SFC his key players are foreigners.

4-2-3-1

The same formations that both Pim and Holger used effectively but were still heavily criticised for using this formation that people now want Ange to use.

the formation is not the problem

ange is suffering from the same shit as holger was at this stage in the campaign.  they need to reward form and game time at club.  you cant just pick a team and stick with it regardless of club form.  you end up with rusty players making poor decisions and being off the pace.

Like Smith's performance.

How Brad Smith got a game is beyond me. He's hardly played for Bournemouth.

More minutes for the NT than the club atm isn't it?

-PB

I believe so. I think he came on as a late sub once for Bournemouth this season.

Bournemouth would beat Thailand

Blah blah Ange blah blah blah smith blah blah blah golden generation blah blah blah golfer blah blah blah I'll KFC that parrot

I still believe Ange has been a net positive for the Socceroos, as he won the Asian cup, had us playing attractive football for a few years and brought on the next generation. These things wouldn't have happened if we had hired someone else at that time.

In the past 12 months he has completely lost the plot. I don't know why he decided to change the formation that won the Asian cup, but every tactical change he has made since then has been a disaster.

If we don't qualify he should certainly be replaced.

He has already said he's leaving once the WC campaign is over. 

So basically, if we qualify, he stays, if we miss out, he walks on his own terms.

The malaka has beat the system.

If we go to the playoffs he should be sacked, if he can't beat Thailand at home lets face it, he should go.

if we cant beat Thailand away we shouldn't be there tbh...