At this level I could not agree more.

However what annoys the hell out of me are two broad issues.... that replacing the current system with a full FIFA system is the answer and this is based on because it works overseas.... second everything is the fault of FFA.

That the current system is broken needs to be understood, how and why its broken.... Is it FFA incompetence.... is it A-League club incompetence... is it the PFA gouging to much of the pie ..... is it a lack of respect to older clubs...

As an example there is no reason to believe that South Melbourne would bring a higher level of expertise and management skill  than any existing A-League team.

The history of professional Football in Australia be it FFA or NSL is the professional clubs have done SFA to grow the game... both SA &  FFA and their professional clubs have failed to connect to the Football base.. Its the local regional  associations that have driven the player base growth... 

IMO over my entire life of watching Football only ONE person has been able to connect to the player base and JON and Mark Coral pissed him off...

Nick Tana who started Perth Glory and was copied by The Northern Spirit approached the associations and their grass roots park teams and connected in a manner that made them feel important and he gave them things.... his history is there for all to see..

IMO and my biggest gripe about FFA incompetence is the inability to create the environment whereby A-League clubs connect to the player base... we don't even have to look for the market its already there.... but its not only FFA its the A-League clubs and the former NSL clubs  who also fail this.

In fact during the the dark times of SA the NSL clubs were almost at war with association rep teams...

As I see it saying the current system is failing ..... but without a detailed analysis on why its failing.... it will lead to even greater failure and frustration....

I sat on a Football committee of a reasonable large suburban club and was on the committee from the early 90's until about Hal 5 or 6.... SFC, Olympic, Parramatta Power, never even gave us a phone call.... The Northern Spirit sent us pamphlets, free tickets, info nights ... the results are in your face obvious... 

Steven Lowy comes from quite a wealthy background and has no idea IMO how players, parents, friends of local park clubs feel and their wants... this is a huge problem and my hope when issues clam down is GOR [A-League Head] will have an understanding as he is from an association background.

So my two cents worth is we need to understand the problem before we can offer solutions.... IMO many don't understand the problem... solve how to connect to the player base and the system will essentially look after itself... the market is there its in front of our eyes ... it has been the same for 60 years .... 

To put it bluntly What if people just aren't interested in a young 3rd rate soccer competition ? How would the FFA change that ?

South Melbourne and NSL clubs have absolutely nothing to do with the broken model. It is not about them and it never has been

IMO the resolution to the broken model is a few changes:
1/ Separation of the FFA from League (removes self interest) and the FFA get x% of league revenue for good o the game
2/ Separation of club from league (removes self interest and encourages investment). League management gets (for example) $5m for league management and marketing. Not a dollar more
3/ A fixed % of all other shared revenue (TV deal and league sponsorship) to A League, W League, and Lower tier clubs (ie a ratio of 3:1:1). This adds transparency and predictability. Club owners can then choose whether its enough or leave the game if they don't think its enough. This also ensures league viability because if owners walk the base amount may be enough to keep a minimal club ticking over
4/ No sibling sharing bullshit. No sharing of finals revenue, merchandise revenue, etc... Let clubs keep what they earn with their brand. Lower clubs benefit from TV money which they would not get if it wasn't for derbies and the effort of teams in big games. The one for all mentality is just greed and bullshit
5/ No competitive restraints aside from the 3+1 rule which needs to be uniform across the whole game. Clubs need to protect their investment. There are consequences of failure just as much as there are rewards for success. Why should players and coaches lose professional contracts just because they were too good? Why should clubs lose sponsorship and fans just because fans of other teams were bored? This is not an objective of football and never will be. The sooner it is fucked off from our game the better

What I have described can happen in a single tier model as we have seen with the J League and K League. But only with a good expansion model and only with P/R down the track. The league will not die if City win 3 titles in a row. There are also ACL spots to play for, and there will always be big games for smaller teams (look at CCM crowds against WSW)

We need a second division for more playing numbers, to consolidate the next best talent onto a central platform, and to bring meaningful games to secondary regions (ie- Tasmania, Geelong and Wollongong). Initially FFA cup games and A League preseason hit outs. Ultimately P/R

Whether these are NSL or NPL clubs is up to the best tender. They shouldn't be specified but nor should they be excluded. If South Melbourne are the Melbourne team for the second tier then so be it

As the tiers spread downwards there will be more opportunities for the teams that have something to offer to step up and then create their own destiny. There will always be a state league / NPL structure but due to the complexity it will always be amateur. These teams serve purpose in the FFA cup and preseason hit outs. Also not everybody plays football so they can play in the A League. We need football at all levels


The NSL club / A League club debate is just a distraction that could lead us in the wrong direction. As is the Australian way debate. We need to implement a sensible, viable and professional model. Whatever answers they give us and whatever clubs we are left with we need to accept

The FFA never get the aleague advertising really cranked up till after AFL and NRL season is over. Though i have seen a bit of advertising on ch10 about the games they are showing.

The game in general is getting a decent amount of coverage with the matildas success and the Socceroos WC qualifiers, no need to stress.

The advertising on FTA is a good start

Hellas is the broken model
They are the disease that was the NSL which held our beautiful game back for so many years
They are gone and football is thriving

Just look at what happened to Adelaide United. They couldn't keep their championship squad under the cap. They go from 1st with average crowds of 11287 to almost last with 9514 - the second lowest in club history. That's not competitive balance it's capitol punishment. Any value that was built in a year was blown to pieces. It's amazing the Australian model of tireless value destruction. Take a club on a growth trajectory and tear a million off their revenue next season. And Dave wonders why the league isn't growing.

Fold the league.

100% right

Australia has bought into a rob from the rich and give to the poor paradox

In a truly national game where not all markets are equal there are larger consequences as big markets are torn down so smaller markets can have their turn

Still laughing at the FFA giving WSW everything to make sure they were a success, and then tearing them down for being too good

"They couldn't keep their championship squad under the cap" .. thats not true, several of teh players were sold for a transfer fee so they chose to sell them and it had nothing to do with the cap

Bluebird
We live in Australia and salary caps are part of the norm in our sporting codes
With Adelaide you have given a poor example - the players wanted to move on

"That's how we do it here."

It would be interesting to add up the new contract wage value of the players they lost to estimate how much it would have cost the club to keep them together.

More fool the club that allowed these players to run out contracts and leave for free transfers rather than blaming the salary cap.

Transfers between A-League clubs should be allowed and clubs should look at tying down younger players for longer rather than always being available for Milligan's and Djite's, McGowan's etc to fall back on. Only a few clubs have acted like real clubs in the transfer market over the years. It is far easier to blame the FFA salary cap and stick your hand out for cash.

FFA have the TV money, so why bother ?

They've got 1 or 2 Olympic stadiums to fill for some quick cash over the next few weeks, that's priority

#kulcha

If any clubs model is found wanting it will surface in a pro/rel environment. The sooner clubs like South Melbourne enter the A-league the sooner they can go about implementing all the changes they need to make in order to be successful. If they don't they will quickly be relegated by some club who will do it better. The best thing that can happen is to add more teams and have pro/rel because it will instantly create a competitive environment where you have to do things right in order to survive. If clubs don't adapt they will be found out and we can move away from the NSL and the ethnic debate once and for all.

#UniqueMilieu

Actual number of A-League seasons that averaged attendances of over 13k;
2006/07 (14,036)
2007/08 (15,348)
2013/14 (13,488)
2014/15 (13,038)

WTF?

2005/06 season: Average crowd over 90 matches:11,627. Total for the season: 1,046,468.
2016/17 season: Average crowd over 140 matches: 12,683. Total for the season: 1,777,652.
http://www.aleaguestats.com/ALeagueStats_1CrowdStats.html

I'm not sure how you can say that the attendances have not shifted. Comparing 2016/17 to 2005/06, there are more matches, a higher average number of attendees per match, and nearly twice as many people in total attending matches.

What is it with Aussies thinking they know and do everything better than everyone else?

Even dumb shit like the retardely simple concept of having friends - Aussies wrap it up in some superior 'Aussie mateship' bollocks as if nobody around the world can grasp the simple idea of having a friend

"The FFA have their TV money "

They sure have - because HELLAS are no longer there

The last time they were--
No TV money
No games being shown
No sponsor for the league

Hellas are never coming to the A-League just ask the FFA

It's like talking to people about how we play our national team football.

"we're Australia and we're gonna go out there attacking all guns blazing, never say die, don't die wondering, thats the Aussie spirit, it's un-Australian to play more conservatively" blah blah blah just fuck off.

Thanks for clearing that up

Happy to clear that up
If the FFA get replaced -- there is no way in the world the new committee will ever have HELLAS in
Anyone with any business sense will not want this rubbish in our league

Self Interest

Level Playing Field

Forgot to take your pills today paul

I dunno, standard attempt to derail the actual thread topic