Roberts1
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Don’t kid yourself There is just 20 exNSL bitters calling for this shit Look at the above link The best of the NPL draw 235 to 800 fans
This BS comp will never get off the ground it sinks of SELF INTEREST
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Roberts1
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With 235 fans —after you pay for the ref, the linesmen and the fourth official you have barely enough left to pay for the toilet paper to clean up all the shit......
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The Fans
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. why are you so concerned with whether its professional or not. someone here talked about the ice hockey national league. if ice hockey can have a national league football can have a 2nd division. Full stop. We could have a second division with what clubs already spend easily. These leagues (BBL, AFL) you're talking about aren't just professional, they're enormously lucrative. Players get payed millions. Thats not this. If there will be professionals in 2nd div they'll be getting 45k not millions. None of these arguments against a 2nd div hold up to any scrutiny. Are you serious? Professional means getting paid to play. " AIHL players are amateurs. Players are not paid to play in the AIHL, but receive other benefits such as the use of a car, and accommodation during the season." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Ice_Hockey_LeagueThe guys in the State leagues are getting paid circa $1000 each per week. On top of their day jobs. In a national second tier, do you think they will demand a) less b) more c) the same. Yes I'm serious. Professional means getting paid enough to play without having another job. I don't understand your point in the slightest. Don't you understand that players WANT a second division, that they WANT to play in it. Even keeping exactly the same income, any ambitious young player would jump at the chance to play on the national stage. You really think clubs would have trouble finding players??? I'm not saying clubs and the players can't be professional, on the cash NPL clubs are paying NOW many players could quit their day. What I'm saying is there is no reason they have to be. The players DO NOT DECIDE IF THE LEAGUE IS SUSTAINABLE. The fans and sponsors who pay to watch do Why don't you pick one argument and stick with it. If the clubs already spend a lot of money of players which you've admitted, and are absolutely fine, why can't biggest/best of the NPLs get together and form a national league? What is the extra thing on top of what the state league clubs already do that is so unattainable in your mind? As far as I can tell the only necessary extra cost is logistics (ie travel), which is nowhere near what clubs are already spending. So what exactly is your opposition to a 2nd division? The argument is entirely consistent: viability. In that regard the single fact that players and coaches want a national stage is irrelevant . What matters is who will pay to watch and who will sponsor it? Because the whole point of it is promotion to the A-League, and if the promoted team doesn't bring in the additional crowds. ratings and sponsors it becomes another anchor sinking the A-League. I don't see one single piece of evidence that any of these clubs have the capacity to bring in better crowds/ratings or sponsors than the worst A-league club. Are the NPLs viable?
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The Fans
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+xWith 235 fans —after you pay for the ref, the linesmen and the fourth official you have barely enough left to pay for the toilet paper to clean up all the shit...... apparently not considering many of those clubs pay around 1k/week. do you ever get tired of being wrong?
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TheSelectFew
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Thousands of responses. No interest at all.
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Roberts1
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‘Many if these clubs pay $1k per week’
What BS - which clubs ??????
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TheSelectFew
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+x‘Many if these clubs pay $1k per week’What BS - which clubs ?????? All
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bohemia
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No point discussing this topic when half the people here are multis
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aussie scott21
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+xNo point discussing this topic when half the people here are multis thats how the terrorists win
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AJF
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+x‘Many if these clubs pay $1k per week’What BS - which clubs ?????? Well we know for a fact Brisbane Hollandia dont pay their players anything either so perhaps they need to be relegate to state 1?
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433
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+xNo point discussing this topic when half the people here are multis Mods can see IPs too, but they don't do anything about it.
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MarkfromCroydon
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There's so much rubbish on here. Look at your history. Football leagues have been closed all over the world for decades. Even in England, the league has been a closed league for most of its existence. Finishing last in the bottom division did't mean you were out. A club would get voted out, or not! And of course, the number of divisions and clubs overall was once much less.
I point this out to show it's not the 'multi-tier' aspect of football leagues that drives improvement, but the overall 'critical mass' and the level of full professionalism WITHIN the system. That can be achieved via a large one division league OR via a large multi division structure.
The key words though are fully professional. Players will improve when they can play and train full-time. Clubs will improve and the standard of football will improve when they are able to have their players full-time and have full-time coaching, medical and administrative staff. It's not rocket science.
I would love to see a multi division league of 20-30 odd fully professional teams here (I rally don't think we have the economy to sustain more than that). What I don't want to see is the hacks that held football back for years get back in positions of power and try to take us back to the dark ages. That to me, is what the AAFC and their sweatshop league look like.
The same old social clubs running semi professional teams for the glory of the club directors who can claim to be 'big men' in their local ethnic community, with football being only a vehicle for their egos or their businesses. Thats not good enough. This is 2017. We need to change the thinking.
A team in the top division or two must be good at football, but also good at the business of football. Sure, make a profit for your directors, but not at the expense of the kids, or by underpaying players. Every team in the second division MUST pay their players a decent living wage. Rather than a salary cap, there must be a minimum salary for any player. That's the way to improve players and improve the standard of football. If a current NPL club isn't big enough to achieve this, then they need to get bigger! grow the fan base, grow the sponsorship revenue, become a publicly listed company and sell shares to bring in capital. Geez, that is how it's done around the world! Or are we UNIQUE? if you can't do it alone, MERGE!
I love football. I love watching top quality football live here in my own city. I love it as a sport, more than I care for any individual club that I follow. If Victory folded or were taken over tomorrow, I'd be heartbroken, but i'd still follow the sport here, and eventually choose a team to watch in the top level. I don't see that is the case with the AAFC and some of the old NSL bitters, who seem to care more about their social club than the sport of football itself!
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aussie scott21
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+xI love football. I love watching top quality football live here in my own city. I love it as a sport, more than I care for any individual club that I follow. If Victory folded or were taken over tomorrow, I'd be heartbroken, but i'd still follow the sport here, and eventually choose a team to watch in the top level. I don't see that is the case with the AAFC and some of the old NSL bitters, who seem to care more about their social club than the sport of football itself! Mate with this attitude you should just back Real Madrid... until they lose the UCL final.... then you should back that team.
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Arthur
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Wouldn’t worry about all this now. It’s all over now after today’s shenanigans. FIFA is coming to town. Everything changes. AAFC will probably get 2 votes on Congress. The Championship is starting in 2019. The ALeague will be free from the FFA. Gallop is gone. The FFA Board will dismissed never to be seen again.
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aussie scott21
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+xWouldn’t worry about all this now.It’s all over now after today’s shenanigans.FIFA is coming to town.Everything changes. AAFC will probably get 2 votes on Congress.The Championship is starting in 2019.The ALeague will be free from the FFA.Gallop is gone.The FFA Board will dismissed never to be seen again. The restlessness of the aspirationals – Leopold MethodPro rel soon enough
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switters
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+xWouldn’t worry about all this now.It’s all over now after today’s shenanigans.FIFA is coming to town.Everything changes. AAFC will probably get 2 votes on Congress.The Championship is starting in 2019.The ALeague will be free from the FFA.Gallop is gone.The FFA Board will dismissed never to be seen again. I've got the champagne on ice ready to go.
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bigpoppa
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+xWouldn’t worry about all this now.It’s all over now after today’s shenanigans.FIFA is coming to town.Everything changes. AAFC will probably get 2 votes on Congress.The Championship is starting in 2019.The ALeague will be free from the FFA.Gallop is gone.The FFA Board will dismissed never to be seen again. Is this to do with the backflip by FFV or is there more?
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aufc_ole
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+xWouldn’t worry about all this now.It’s all over now after today’s shenanigans.FIFA is coming to town.Everything changes. AAFC will probably get 2 votes on Congress.The Championship is starting in 2019.The ALeague will be free from the FFA.Gallop is gone.The FFA Board will dismissed never to be seen again. Don't get me excited like that
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Arthur
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You better watch out You better not cry Better not pout I'm telling you why FIFA is coming to town AFC is making a list And checking it twice Gonna find out Who's naughty and nice FIFA is coming to town They see you when you're sleeping They know when you're awake They know if you've been bad or good So be good for goodness sake! O! You better watch out! You better not cry Better not pout I'm telling you why FIFA is coming to town FIFA is coming to town
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bigpoppa
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+xYou better watch out You better not cry Better not pout I'm telling you why FIFA is coming to town AFC is making a list And checking it twice Gonna find out Who's naughty and nice FIFA is coming to town They see you when you're sleeping They know when you're awake They know if you've been bad or good So be good for goodness sake! O! You better watch out! You better not cry Better not pout I'm telling you why FIFA is coming to town FIFA is coming to town We'll still be kept waiting though.. Normalisation committee will be put in place and then they'll all knock off for Christmas/New Years holidays.
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aufc_ole
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. why are you so concerned with whether its professional or not. someone here talked about the ice hockey national league. if ice hockey can have a national league football can have a 2nd division. Full stop. We could have a second division with what clubs already spend easily. These leagues (BBL, AFL) you're talking about aren't just professional, they're enormously lucrative. Players get payed millions. Thats not this. If there will be professionals in 2nd div they'll be getting 45k not millions. None of these arguments against a 2nd div hold up to any scrutiny. Are you serious? Professional means getting paid to play. " AIHL players are amateurs. Players are not paid to play in the AIHL, but receive other benefits such as the use of a car, and accommodation during the season." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Ice_Hockey_LeagueThe guys in the State leagues are getting paid circa $1000 each per week. On top of their day jobs. In a national second tier, do you think they will demand a) less b) more c) the same. Yes I'm serious. Professional means getting paid enough to play without having another job. I don't understand your point in the slightest. Don't you understand that players WANT a second division, that they WANT to play in it. Even keeping exactly the same income, any ambitious young player would jump at the chance to play on the national stage. You really think clubs would have trouble finding players??? I'm not saying clubs and the players can't be professional, on the cash NPL clubs are paying NOW many players could quit their day. What I'm saying is there is no reason they have to be. The players DO NOT DECIDE IF THE LEAGUE IS SUSTAINABLE. The fans and sponsors who pay to watch do Why don't you pick one argument and stick with it. If the clubs already spend a lot of money of players which you've admitted, and are absolutely fine, why can't biggest/best of the NPLs get together and form a national league? What is the extra thing on top of what the state league clubs already do that is so unattainable in your mind? As far as I can tell the only necessary extra cost is logistics (ie travel), which is nowhere near what clubs are already spending. So what exactly is your opposition to a 2nd division? The argument is entirely consistent: viability. In that regard the single fact that players and coaches want a national stage is irrelevant . What matters is who will pay to watch and who will sponsor it? Because the whole point of it is promotion to the A-League, and if the promoted team doesn't bring in the additional crowds. ratings and sponsors it becomes another anchor sinking the A-League. I don't see one single piece of evidence that any of these clubs have the capacity to bring in better crowds/ratings or sponsors than the worst A-league club. I've looked back on the last few pages and no one has argued anything along the lines of "If SM were promoted they would sell out the MCG weekly!!"
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paulbagzFC
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paulc gonna single handedly get this thread to 100 pages. -PB
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TheSelectFew
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. why are you so concerned with whether its professional or not. someone here talked about the ice hockey national league. if ice hockey can have a national league football can have a 2nd division. Full stop. We could have a second division with what clubs already spend easily. These leagues (BBL, AFL) you're talking about aren't just professional, they're enormously lucrative. Players get payed millions. Thats not this. If there will be professionals in 2nd div they'll be getting 45k not millions. None of these arguments against a 2nd div hold up to any scrutiny. Are you serious? Professional means getting paid to play. " AIHL players are amateurs. Players are not paid to play in the AIHL, but receive other benefits such as the use of a car, and accommodation during the season." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Ice_Hockey_LeagueThe guys in the State leagues are getting paid circa $1000 each per week. On top of their day jobs. In a national second tier, do you think they will demand a) less b) more c) the same. Yes I'm serious. Professional means getting paid enough to play without having another job. I don't understand your point in the slightest. Don't you understand that players WANT a second division, that they WANT to play in it. Even keeping exactly the same income, any ambitious young player would jump at the chance to play on the national stage. You really think clubs would have trouble finding players??? I'm not saying clubs and the players can't be professional, on the cash NPL clubs are paying NOW many players could quit their day. What I'm saying is there is no reason they have to be. The players DO NOT DECIDE IF THE LEAGUE IS SUSTAINABLE. The fans and sponsors who pay to watch do Why don't you pick one argument and stick with it. If the clubs already spend a lot of money of players which you've admitted, and are absolutely fine, why can't biggest/best of the NPLs get together and form a national league? What is the extra thing on top of what the state league clubs already do that is so unattainable in your mind? As far as I can tell the only necessary extra cost is logistics (ie travel), which is nowhere near what clubs are already spending. So what exactly is your opposition to a 2nd division? The argument is entirely consistent: viability. In that regard the single fact that players and coaches want a national stage is irrelevant . What matters is who will pay to watch and who will sponsor it? Because the whole point of it is promotion to the A-League, and if the promoted team doesn't bring in the additional crowds. ratings and sponsors it becomes another anchor sinking the A-League. I don't see one single piece of evidence that any of these clubs have the capacity to bring in better crowds/ratings or sponsors than the worst A-league club. I've looked back on the last few pages and no one has argued anything along the lines of "If SM were promoted they would sell out the MCG weekly!!" Why would they do that? They would have to rent it out. SM already have their own stadium. They don't have to pay extortion fees like A-League clubs have to. Another thing Paukc neglects to mention when he cries sustainability.
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paladisious
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 39K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. why are you so concerned with whether its professional or not. someone here talked about the ice hockey national league. if ice hockey can have a national league football can have a 2nd division. Full stop. We could have a second division with what clubs already spend easily. These leagues (BBL, AFL) you're talking about aren't just professional, they're enormously lucrative. Players get payed millions. Thats not this. If there will be professionals in 2nd div they'll be getting 45k not millions. None of these arguments against a 2nd div hold up to any scrutiny. Are you serious? Professional means getting paid to play. " AIHL players are amateurs. Players are not paid to play in the AIHL, but receive other benefits such as the use of a car, and accommodation during the season." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Ice_Hockey_LeagueThe guys in the State leagues are getting paid circa $1000 each per week. On top of their day jobs. In a national second tier, do you think they will demand a) less b) more c) the same. Yes I'm serious. Professional means getting paid enough to play without having another job. I don't understand your point in the slightest. Don't you understand that players WANT a second division, that they WANT to play in it. Even keeping exactly the same income, any ambitious young player would jump at the chance to play on the national stage. You really think clubs would have trouble finding players??? I'm not saying clubs and the players can't be professional, on the cash NPL clubs are paying NOW many players could quit their day. What I'm saying is there is no reason they have to be. The players DO NOT DECIDE IF THE LEAGUE IS SUSTAINABLE. The fans and sponsors who pay to watch do Why don't you pick one argument and stick with it. If the clubs already spend a lot of money of players which you've admitted, and are absolutely fine, why can't biggest/best of the NPLs get together and form a national league? What is the extra thing on top of what the state league clubs already do that is so unattainable in your mind? As far as I can tell the only necessary extra cost is logistics (ie travel), which is nowhere near what clubs are already spending. So what exactly is your opposition to a 2nd division? The argument is entirely consistent: viability. In that regard the single fact that players and coaches want a national stage is irrelevant . What matters is who will pay to watch and who will sponsor it? Because the whole point of it is promotion to the A-League, and if the promoted team doesn't bring in the additional crowds. ratings and sponsors it becomes another anchor sinking the A-League. I don't see one single piece of evidence that any of these clubs have the capacity to bring in better crowds/ratings or sponsors than the worst A-league club. I've looked back on the last few pages and no one has argued anything along the lines of "If SM were promoted they would sell out the MCG weekly!!" Yeah, but only because Horto got banned.
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 23K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xNo point discussing this topic when half the people here are multis Mods can see IPs too, but they don't do anything about it. There are a couple of members out there who I am positive are multis, but when you look at the IPs they are different. Not much we can do if the user doesn't have a fixed IP or is using a VPN.
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. If you want cheap DVDs or Games go to BigW The reason why they can do this is by a magical economic thing called product lines. People shop at BigW to get a range of stuff which the owners make money from, and they can afford to cut the cost of electronics because one pays for the other. If BigW ditched electronics then they'll lose customers Football, without a W League, youth league, FFA cup, state feds, national youth and womens teams would be fucked. Football as just the A League and just the Socceroos would be a paradox because neither would have the same commercial value they have without the other 80% non profitable side of the game giving it interest This is why the AFL can afford to have the AFLW and a VicKick program. This is why they can afford to fund football in other countries. You think those Mozambique leagues are paying for themselves? The AFL, BBL and other leagues all have additional leagues such as womens, youth etc... which will never have enough funding to stand on its own feet The argument here seems to be we can do everything except for a second division, even though as I have stated it is merely a different conference to the first tier I'm glad you're not in charge of football in this country because you'd cull everything that isn't of commercial interest. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we lost funding for Futsal... The W_league and Matilda's are politically-correct imposts of doing business in today's 'modern and equality driven " world. Explain why without the W-League, the Matilda's and the FFA Cup, the A-League and Socceroos would be fucked? And Futsal-Tom Rogic aside-please. Yeah ignore Neymar and Ronaldhino too.
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 23K,
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Roberts1 fear is wonderful. Convinced that no-one is interested, but terrified that it's going to happen... Claims it's just 20 people, can't quite grasp that there are over a hundred clubs signed up, each with memberships that support the move, that the PFA support it, that the HAL owners support it, that FIFA and the AFC support it, that the media supports it. That virtually every person involved in the professional game, with the exception of FFA employees, supports it. Yep, just 20 forum members on 442 driving the whole thing. You can taste the fear...
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 23K,
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+xI love football. I love watching top quality football live here in my own city. I love it as a sport, more than I care for any individual club that I follow. If Victory folded or were taken over tomorrow, I'd be heartbroken, but i'd still follow the sport here, and eventually choose a team to watch in the top level. I don't see that is the case with the AAFC and some of the old NSL bitters, who seem to care more about their social club than the sport of football itself! How old were you when Victory were formed, and who did you follow before that? And if Victory were relegated to a lower league (rather than taken over or folded) would you abandon them to watch City or the new local team in the top division?
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
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+x+xNo point discussing this topic when half the people here are multis thats how the terrorists win You should all just agree with everything he writes for a week. He'll leave the forums soon after.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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bigpoppa
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Group: Forum Members
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I suggest Roberts1 and co listen to the Clubland podcast on FNR from yesterday.
They interviewed Troy Bingham who is the newly re-founded Gold Coast United CEO. He declared their aspirations for the club to play in the Championship and it really shows the level clubs are going to aspiring for the Championship and the level these 'ethnic' clubs will have to go to if they want to keep up. Really emphasises this is about growing football pathways and culture and not the 'ethnics' trying to wrest back control.
It's quite impressive the lengths some of these clubs are going to to set themselves up for future National League aspirations. How anyone can think the Championship is a bad thing, just hearing the minimal bits and pieces we have heard so far before a bid has even been put in, is beyond me..
Few points:
- Building relationships with grassroots clubs on the Gold Coast. Within 3 months they already have up to 15 clubs signed up who get expert coaching in return. - Offering minimal fees for players to start with. 1-2 scholarship players in each age group. Through sponsorship's from local businesses, with in 2 years plan to have no fees for their players. Acknowledged how high some fees are and really emphasised they want every kid to have a chance at top level football. They had up to 120 kids trial for each age group which added up to well over 1000 kids. - Have also set up an academy for players who don't quite make the squad but want to keep improving. Kids play and train with local FGC club and train 1-2 nights a week at GCU. Helps the club watch the development of players so none slip through the cracks. - Only 4 fulltime staff who are all coaches. 4 A-License coaches. Board are all volunteers. - Plans to build a boutique approx. 5000 seat stadium somewhere on the coast in the future. Want to have adjoining training fields and set up an onsite academy with world class training facilities. Set it up for a destination for overseas training camps etc leverage on the high interst of tourism throughout Asia for the GC.
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