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gul15
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Does this group only represent existing clubs or does it include potential consortiums that would be interested in joining a NSD?
The only reason I ask is that I thought the old Team 11 may of thrown their hat in?
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melbourne_terrace
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+xWaiting to see how PFA reacts to semi pro. Last guy had a very high ambition to NSD. The reconfiguration of the model to no salary cap should satiate them. Clubs will move to professionalism as it suits them, some naturally faster than others, which will give players more pathways than they have now. Also, The bit about the basis of stadium requirements being similar to FFA cup TV game is an interesting development. That should be attainable to most ambitious NPL clubs.
Viennese Vuck
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scott20won
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Waiting to see how PFA reacts to semi pro. Last guy had a very high ambition to NSD.
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scott20won
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+x+xSurprising that Sydney United is not listed Good point. Very surprising. They seem well placed to enter the league in terms of stadia and potentially the social club backing. Also thought Hakoah and Blacktown. This is a slow burn I imagine some clubs will have the ambition but not first season. See how it goes for the others if established. If the “top” teams from NSW entered if wouldn’t be a big ask for SU58 to win div 3 NSW
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Heart_fan
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+xSurprising that Sydney United is not listed Good point. Very surprising. They seem well placed to enter the league in terms of stadia and potentially the social club backing.
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patjennings
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Surprising that Sydney United is not listed
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Arthur
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scott20won
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25 you say
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Gyfox
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The agenda for the meeting and a presentation is available on the AAFC website. For some reason I can'r copy the link.
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Heart_fan
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It all sounds good but it’s the usual spin of stakeholder engagement and working on a structure and model. I do hope they can get it approved and we can have some good news on the horizon, but given current conditions, it’s going to be a hard task.
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lost
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LFC.
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+x'National second division is kicking off with or without FFA'
78 pages and 3 years since this thread started and sweet fuck all has happened. Australian soccer will never get out of this friggin hole we're in. Front page of ftbl tonight another bullshit franchise team proposed. and the non believers are happy.
Love Football
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Muz
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'National second division is kicking off with or without FFA'
78 pages and 3 years since this thread started and sweet fuck all has happened. Australian soccer will never get out of this friggin hole we're in. Front page of ftbl tonight another bullshit franchise team proposed.
Member since 2008.
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scott20won
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“@AAFClubs Update: Now over 60 clubs from all states have confirmed attendance at tonight’s meeting on ‘The Championship’ (NSD). Reminder: We will begin at 7pm sharp 🕰” https://mobile.twitter.com/AAFClubs/status/1298105047641776128
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scott20won
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Tomorrow is hopefully a day that will go down in Australian football history.
I am not anticipating that AAFC will release clubs names that reply with a EOI. Even though transparency was stated early on.
Once they name a number people will be very interested.
Not going to happen but I wish AAFC would milk the process after their closing date. Eg. If they have 20 interested clubs release the name of 1 club per week for 20 weeks. And, announce when teams drop out.
Again I am not expecting this as the reason will most likely be to not to get fans hopes up. But it is a real opportunity to get media all over the country over a long period. We are about to enter a new dawn of speculation.
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scott20won
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+xPlayers from some of the biggest rivals in Europe have been personal friends, which is one thing, but as you say, the tiny pool of teams and players in the A-League and the lowering of the stakes with no relegation definitely has its effect on the end product. $50k pay reduction on your salary at stake would leave the chumminess at home. Plus the continual new blood who you don’t know.
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paladisious
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Players from some of the biggest rivals in Europe have been personal friends, which is one thing, but as you say, the tiny pool of teams and players in the A-League and the lowering of the stakes with no relegation definitely has its effect on the end product.
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scott20won
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“When he returned to France, it was to Toulouse in the lower regions of the Ligue 1 table. Toivonen stayed there for two seasons before making the odd move to Melbourne Victory in the A-League, across the globe. A different culture and not the same harsh jargon on the Australian pitches. - No, it was quite calm actually. There were many who were friends with each other in that league and there are not that many teams either. It seemed like everyone knew everyone and hung out with everyone. It was very calm, says Ola Toivonen and sums up the adventure abroad: - I succeeded quite well, I think if you look at playing time in the clubs I got. I could have had a little more playing time, but in general I think I succeeded decently.” https://www.fotbollskanalen.se/allsvenskan/kand-fran-netflix--toivonen-om-sunderlands-fall-kandes-som-ordning-/Sums it up really. We have a bloc of protected players that just change clubs and are good mates. How do we we expect to have rivalries and intensity when everybody is an ex teammate with someone else? and no financial punishment for relegation Everyone must notice the amount of joking around on the pitch
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scott20won
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+x+x+x+x+x+x“.....When the AAFC announced on Monday that it was set to meet on Aug. 25 to "discuss the criteria for a national second division, with a public statement to be issued after that meeting," and that it was "forging ahead with a view to commencing a NSD in 2022," Australian football was sent into a tizzy. But the organisation, a collective group of National Premier League sides, has explained to ESPN that the coming meeting doesn't indicate a breakaway from the FFA and auger a move to set up a rebel competition but, instead, is designed to lay the groundwork that will enable all stakeholders to put in place a second tier sooner rather than later.
Comparing it to the plans to seek out informal EOIs that FFA CEO that Johnson revealed to the Sydney Morning Herald in March, the AAFC intends to take stock of the interest levels of its clubs in participating in a NSD and their capabilities to do so, as well as check in to see how they've been affected by the pandemic.
"We haven't decided, I want to make clear, that the 'FFA isn't doing this, so we're doing this on our own,'" AAFC president Nick Galatas told ESPN. "We're out there canvassing interest against a couple of [NSD] models to go to the FFA with. I think that's the clear takeaway. It's been misconstrued that we've severed the relationship with the FFA and gone our own way, that's not true." The information they gather, the AAFC believes, will then enable proper planning for the launch of a NSD division by 2022 to swing into action -- although they emphasised it will ultimately be guided by their members as to when they will be best placed to take part in a newly launched competition. "Unless you work towards it, you don't get there," Galatas said. "You can always think of problems. If you actively pursue something, you can come up with 1000 reasons why it won't work, but you've got to do it. We know there are issues, doesn't mean they're insurmountable."
https://www.espn.com.au/football/australian-a-league/story/4163868/a-league-wrap-sydney-fcs-biggest-threats-trevor-morgans-vision-plans-for-a-second-division?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true It’s exactly the plan that I had mentioned a while back, as getting on the front foot and providing a plan to the FFA that requires little work for them to get done themselves is the way forward. Good to see that they are looking outside the box. I’m sure many clubs would love to be involved, but it’s likely many would be expecting a significant part of their plans to be funded by NSD broadcaster and sponsor revenues, but the chances of that being a realistic possibility are next to zero right now. Finding what the expectations are is a good way of identifying the gaps, and determining a viable model.
It’s a great concept but as many in the game have indicated, whether the money is there to feed the appetite is certainly the roadblock. Good luck to them with this process. The ONLY real "roadblocks" are the two slime-buckets that currently occupy the Chairman and CEO positions!!! The sooner that "the Greek" and "the Weasel" are chased out of Football, the sooner the game will be able to move forward again!!! The "gross incompetence" of these two imbeciles is entirely responsible for costing the sport over $120M in less than eight months!!! "The Aussies" that came before The "Greek" and the "Weasel" were of the same imcompetence. Need non-politicial types in these roles. There isn't anybody with the required clout to get into these roles. The movers and shakers are the broadcasters only. I think Lowy Jr and Nikou are both Aussies, however wasn’t Steven counted as ethnic in FFA diversity numbers? Well, we call people like Tim Tszyu, or the likes of Harry Souttar, Apo Giannou, Milos Degenek, Daniel Giorgevski, Rabieh Krayem or Lou Sticca or take your pick as Aussies so I guess Nikou, JJ and Greg O'R are too it must be said. It’s a matter of opinion. Fifa eligible and personal feeling is another thing. If a person is born overseas but feels a connection to a parents homeland then I guess it’s fine that they call themselves one or the other. Or both.
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scott20won
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Quote from today’s game post match “What a story, our first year in the league,” said Berisha.
“We have a dream and we keep dreaming.”
https://www.a-league.com.au/news/brisbane-roar-western-united-elimination-final-reaction-besart-berisha-mark-rudan
The last time we heard stuff like this was WSW first season.
With the way the league is structured, with finals, we could have this EVERY season as new teams come and go into the league.
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Footyball
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+x+x+x+x+x“.....When the AAFC announced on Monday that it was set to meet on Aug. 25 to "discuss the criteria for a national second division, with a public statement to be issued after that meeting," and that it was "forging ahead with a view to commencing a NSD in 2022," Australian football was sent into a tizzy. But the organisation, a collective group of National Premier League sides, has explained to ESPN that the coming meeting doesn't indicate a breakaway from the FFA and auger a move to set up a rebel competition but, instead, is designed to lay the groundwork that will enable all stakeholders to put in place a second tier sooner rather than later.
Comparing it to the plans to seek out informal EOIs that FFA CEO that Johnson revealed to the Sydney Morning Herald in March, the AAFC intends to take stock of the interest levels of its clubs in participating in a NSD and their capabilities to do so, as well as check in to see how they've been affected by the pandemic.
"We haven't decided, I want to make clear, that the 'FFA isn't doing this, so we're doing this on our own,'" AAFC president Nick Galatas told ESPN. "We're out there canvassing interest against a couple of [NSD] models to go to the FFA with. I think that's the clear takeaway. It's been misconstrued that we've severed the relationship with the FFA and gone our own way, that's not true." The information they gather, the AAFC believes, will then enable proper planning for the launch of a NSD division by 2022 to swing into action -- although they emphasised it will ultimately be guided by their members as to when they will be best placed to take part in a newly launched competition. "Unless you work towards it, you don't get there," Galatas said. "You can always think of problems. If you actively pursue something, you can come up with 1000 reasons why it won't work, but you've got to do it. We know there are issues, doesn't mean they're insurmountable."
https://www.espn.com.au/football/australian-a-league/story/4163868/a-league-wrap-sydney-fcs-biggest-threats-trevor-morgans-vision-plans-for-a-second-division?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true It’s exactly the plan that I had mentioned a while back, as getting on the front foot and providing a plan to the FFA that requires little work for them to get done themselves is the way forward. Good to see that they are looking outside the box. I’m sure many clubs would love to be involved, but it’s likely many would be expecting a significant part of their plans to be funded by NSD broadcaster and sponsor revenues, but the chances of that being a realistic possibility are next to zero right now. Finding what the expectations are is a good way of identifying the gaps, and determining a viable model.
It’s a great concept but as many in the game have indicated, whether the money is there to feed the appetite is certainly the roadblock. Good luck to them with this process. The ONLY real "roadblocks" are the two slime-buckets that currently occupy the Chairman and CEO positions!!! The sooner that "the Greek" and "the Weasel" are chased out of Football, the sooner the game will be able to move forward again!!! The "gross incompetence" of these two imbeciles is entirely responsible for costing the sport over $120M in less than eight months!!! "The Aussies" that came before The "Greek" and the "Weasel" were of the same imcompetence. Need non-politicial types in these roles. There isn't anybody with the required clout to get into these roles. The movers and shakers are the broadcasters only. I think Lowy Jr and Nikou are both Aussies, however wasn’t Steven counted as ethnic in FFA diversity numbers? Well, we call people like Tim Tszyu, or the likes of Harry Souttar, Apo Giannou, Milos Degenek, Daniel Giorgevski, Rabieh Krayem or Lou Sticca or take your pick as Aussies so I guess Nikou, JJ and Greg O'R are too it must be said.
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Footyball
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+xThe problem with the current NPL system is the best talent is spread too thin. Condensing the best talent into 12 or so teams will be the most important thing that NSD will do. A simple Vic/NSW conferenced league is the easiest and best way I think . 6 interstate away trips should be manageable for clubs in their current forms . We can build from that. x2
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Footyball
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+x+x+x1. The vast majority are supportive of a NSD 2. Immediate push back, no reason, no ethnics needed, not part of the model, we gave you the FFA Cup, be happy etc. 3. Some support emerges cause no kids are getting a game at HAl level. Some people at HQ are concerened about poor international results at kids level especially, they are worried. They see NSD as the solution. 4. Arnie chimes in. Kids salvation etc. 5. Fox takes the COVID opportunity and cuts the TV Deal 6. Kids problem inadvertently solved as players flee 7. HAL plays kids, loses less money as Fox money wasted on players anyway. People like this more and better chance to sell overseas. Better financial model now. Owners couldnt see this all a fluke 8. Arnies problem goes away, his kids will get game time 9. Why do we need a NSD now? We don't want competing clubs and our kids are getting a game. 10. But AL teams need more kids for business purposes. But they can't afford a reserves comp. 11. Transfer fees are coming and they don't want to pay NPL Clubs. 12. They want to hog the best kids, free and have somewhere cheap for them to play. 13. So NSD conferenced works. 12 AL U23 reserve teams rising ro 14 or 16 as the Ponzi scheme expands with NPL and others to make 2 conferences 14 But still expensive and gives NSD new teams too much of a platform. It seeds a true NSD. Thats Dangerous. 15. Best solution for AL and sole objective at HQ - "Player Development" whatever that is - play the HAL U23 in their State Comps 16. Cheap for them. Keeps us in our place, Best youth goes to HAL, thjey minimise buying and maximise overseas transfers. I agree that everyone can see a NSD would be great, but until someone can put forward a proposal that at least has enough of a chance to get off the ground, and thrive, the FFA are unlikely to see it as a viable proposition. Those clubs that want to join need to make their case as strongly as possible, without expecting big revenue streams to magically appear overnight.
It has enough on its hands trying to work on issues are every turn, with next to no money to do that with. It’s easy to sit back and say they MUST do this, and MUST do that, but that ignores the reality that faces us at the best of time, let alone now.
The Greek & the Weasel have single-handedly "LOST" the game more than 120 Million dollars, that's RIGHT MORE THAN 120 MILLION DOLLARS during the past eight months!!! AND then they have the "BALD FACED TEMERITY" to use the "EXCUSE" that there's SIMPLY NO MONEY TO DO ANYTHING!!! AS they are ENTIRELY RESPONSIBLE for the loss of that revenue they ARE NOT ENTITLED TO USE THAT REVENUE LOSS AS AN EXCUSE TO COVER THEIR SORRY ARSES FOR DOING NOTHING!!! "The Greek" and "Jimmy Jowls" are NOTHING MORE than low level Bunnings' style $35,000/year floor managers and are NOT "EXECUTIVE'S A**EHOLES!!!" These two "F**kwits" MUST be thrown out of the game immediately and replaced by experienced overseas executives who know what they are doing!!! Is it about Race for you or something? All the history of football has been mismanaged in all of its history! It has been a political issue with self interest at the top.
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scott20won
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You look at yesterday and today’s game- when something is on the line players step up.
AL season could be like this every (most) matches if relegation existed
Higher intensity, speed and spirit
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aussie pride
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+xThe problem with the current NPL system is the best talent is spread too thin. Condensing the best talent into 12 or so teams will be the most important thing that NSD will do. A simple Vic/NSW conferenced league is the easiest and best way I think . 6 interstate away trips should be manageable for clubs in their current forms . We can build from that. Agreed Timmy. Hopefully if a NSW/Vic comp is established then expansion sides and bidders can bring in additional cash to help underpin the comp and help make it self sustainable.
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df1982
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I would be in favour of a north/south conference system, with 12 teams in each, and then play-offs at the end to decide promotion.
The north would be the top teams from the NSW NPL, plus Canberra and a few QLD sides. The south would be the top teams from the VIC NPL, plus Tassie and a couple of clubs each from SA and WA. This would keep travel costs down, as most matches would be either local derbies or a short (1.5h) plane trip. Only WA and North Queensland would require longer and more expensive travel (their costs could be subsidised by the league to keep them viable).
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Arthur
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+x+xThe 3,100 responses to the XI principles averages out at 281 responses per survey. It was extended due to poor response, wonder how many FFA friends and family made up the difference. Now we are expected that these responses provide a mandate to follow through on these responses. Please. FWIW I only completed a few of the surveys, I didn't feel confident giving responses to some topics I felt were out of my league. Even so, 250+ opinions for each principle should be plenty to read and deal with. 2 million participants 281 responses per survey!!!!! Talking to a person I know in the consultancy industry thats not enough. The expectation of conducting a critical survey is closer to 20,000.
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patjennings
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+xThe problem with the current NPL system is the best talent is spread too thin. Condensing the best talent into 12 or so teams will be the most important thing that NSD will do. A simple Vic/NSW conferenced league is the easiest and best way I think . 6 interstate away trips should be manageable for clubs in their current forms . We can build from that. It would be the simplest way but it shouldn't be the way we go. If you start that way that is how it will stay. Set it up right from the beginning. Whether its 8, 10, 12 14 or 16 teams. If you make it NSW and Vic (i.e.probably just Sydney and Melbourne) that is how it will stay. If only 8 clubs can afford that's fine. To make it more affordable to Sydney and Melbourne teams bu limiting it to those two areas is not a justifiable position to cut out the rest of Australia,
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bettega
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+x+x+xIt really doesn't depend on the AAFC model. We know the logistics costs, anyone can figure that one out. The question is the Player Costs, with the salary cap to drop to $1.6m-$2m about half that is what you would expect as the base for a NSD. So your looking at a $1.2m-$2m cost to be in the NSD It all depends if there are enough Clubs and others prepared to use their money to be in it. If A-League salary costs are around $1.6 mill to $2 mill, then I reckon you'd have NSD salaries at approx. 40% of that (on average), which is around $640k to $800k total salaries bill per annum. At $640k salary cost, you might have 10 players as being virtually professional, sharing around $440,000, and then you might have another 10 semi-pros sharing the remaining $200k (topping up with youth players who cost almost zero). It's going to work something like that. There is no point having a salary cap, least of all in a NSD. If an ambitious club want to rise up quickly, let them professionalise totally and spend as much as they want. It can only be good for the game. Obviously sustainability is imperative - but we should encourage ambition and let clubs spend what they want within a sustainable model in order to achieve success. I wasn't advocating for a salary cap. As things stand, they will still have it for next season, in the range of $1.6 mill to $2 mill. I am making the point that if salaries are costing around that in a professional A-League, then a salary bill of around 40% of that is viable in a semi-pro NSD. Anyway, it's all academic, there will be no NSD.
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scott20won
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“AAFC @AAFClubs So far over 50 member clubs from all states of Australia are confirmed for our national meeting on The Championship (NSD) Tue 25th Aug. Preparations are complete & we’re looking forward to seeing you all Smiling face with smiling eyes” https://mobile.twitter.com/AAFClubs/status/1297403056716312576
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