Australia vs Peru


Australia vs Peru

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sasha
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RBBAnonymous - 27 Jun 2018 9:19 AM
Der Kaiser - 27 Jun 2018 9:09 AM

Even more difficult to find when almost every A-league club looks for a foreigner to fill the striker position. We can probably produce a more consistent striker but its so hard to fill that spot at International level when A-league clubs are not willing to give young strikers a go at A-league level and help them develop. It also doesn't help that if young strikers are not playing in the A-league they are not tested in a meaningful youth league to give them much needed minutes. There is a reason we have no strikers, no one wants to do the leg work to develop our next striker or even give them a chance. 

so true sadly it will never change
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sasha - 27 Jun 2018 1:26 PM
RBBAnonymous - 27 Jun 2018 9:19 AM

so true sadly it will never change

if the aafc start a 2nd division things could be different
LFC.
LFC.
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socceroo_06 - 27 Jun 2018 11:56 AM
19-SU-58 - 27 Jun 2018 10:25 AM

The in-fighting had occurred LONG before 2005 unfortunately. It's disingenuous to lay the blame at those who axed the NSL/SA and instituted the A-league/FFA.

There are two elements to this:
1) SA's ineptitude that led to the Crawford Report in 2003
2) FFA's nepotism and knee-jerk reaction leadership style that has stifled player development. 

Without getting into a detailed discussion about these points, we are all in this together and we should be fighting together to reform the game for its betterment. 


So very true and there has always been infighting in Governing sport bodies but I don't know of any in my time that a well off invested party walks out and sets their own league up.........
I agree WE should ALL be together in the fight to better our game BUT this drew such an ugly line through the sand the precedent set has contributed greatly to the current state of sad affairs.
The gloss camouflaged the "cracks" and here we are.
IF we are ever to recover from this, NOW is the time for that broom to clean the FFA out and start clean asap and get that peace pipe out as once done long long ago.




Love Football

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19-SU-58 - 27 Jun 2018 10:17 AM
socceroo_06 - 27 Jun 2018 9:40 AM

All blame must go to FFA and HAL. 

Since 2005 all you wanted was the "show piece" and too put bums on seats, but youth football and development suffered.

This was a long time coming, and it's not going away anytime soon, got yourselves to blame.

Well said.

Some of us knew this was gonna happen 15 years ago.

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socceroo_06 - 27 Jun 2018 10:22 AM
19-SU-58 - 27 Jun 2018 10:17 AM

Thanks guy who supports Australian club in Sydney but calls other Australians "you". I see this sentiment as part of the problem too. We are all pulling in different directions. 

By "you", I think he meant those of "you" who wanted these traditional clubs thrown out of the top league.

The NSL wasn't just a bunch of "wog" teams playing at the top level but it was an ecosystem. Development clubs playing from U/12's to the top.

But there was no showpiece competiton relevant to "Australians". The strong desire to compete against showpiece comps like NRL and AFL and Super12 lead to this move to ditch the NSL and the clubs. But people with good intentions didn't understand that the NSL wasn't a shit comp with wog clubs who had no mainstream appeal but a ecosystem of development. They threw out the baby with the bathwater.

15 years on we are just starting to see the insurmountable problems this has caused. I'm pretty sure in 4 years we'll be lamenting the loss of Milligan and Jedinak.because we can't cover those spots

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crimsoncrusoe - 27 Jun 2018 11:44 AM
There can be a lot of excuses for the Peru game.The third game in quick succession,same players,opposition tactics,our tactics,our selections,our poor finishing..etc..etc.Personally I think a major problem was BVM choking on replacing Luongo with Jedi.The two lead up games against the Czechs and Hungary ,we had Luongo and had no trouble scoring goals.Jedi is safe ,but slow and stuffs up midfield alongside Mooy and Rogic upfront.If we play Mooy,Rogic and Jedi we have a slow immobile midfield.Thus we are restricted in the way we can play.We need to sit deep and allow on the wingers and fullbacks to get forward.We need a fast striker to keep up eith the wingers.Nabbout.If we lose the ball high up the field we are exposed.Hence the first goal.In the Peru game we had the slow midfield and slow striker.We had Peru sitting deep and hitting us on the counterattack ,with our slow midfield to cover.End result was to be expected.We could have drawn that game if we played more safely.But we were never going to win that game with the selections and the strategy.Denmark showed what you can do with a simple game plan and squeezing out results.They are on a long unbeaten run and ranked 11 .Their star player Ericksen spends a lot of the game uninvolved.But they stick to their plan ,whether they look ordinary or not.

Good observation - but it would have been a very brave coach to not select the captain who has scored 5 goals in 3 competitive matches and in three successive WC games.

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clockwork orange - 27 Jun 2018 3:27 PM
crimsoncrusoe - 27 Jun 2018 11:44 AM

Good observation - but it would have been a very brave coach to not select the captain who has scored 5 goals in 3 competitive matches and in three successive WC games.

wouldve been very interesting to see luongo ahead of jedi in every match. Too late now I guess
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Freaken - 27 Jun 2018 3:24 PM
socceroo_06 - 27 Jun 2018 10:22 AM

By "you", I think he meant those of "you" who wanted these traditional clubs thrown out of the top league.

The NSL wasn't just a bunch of "wog" teams playing at the top level but it was an ecosystem. Development clubs playing from U/12's to the top.

But there was no showpiece competiton relevant to "Australians". The strong desire to compete against showpiece comps like NRL and AFL and Super12 lead to this move to ditch the NSL and the clubs. But people with good intentions didn't understand that the NSL wasn't a shit comp with wog clubs who had no mainstream appeal but a ecosystem of development. They threw out the baby with the bathwater.

15 years on we are just starting to see the insurmountable problems this has caused. I'm pretty sure in 4 years we'll be lamenting the loss of Milligan and Jedinak.because we can't cover those spots

I don't get who he is speaking to on here. I'd hazard a guess the majority of people on 442 did not support the treatment of the foundation NSL clubs [I certainly didn't]. 

442 members support ALL football in Australia. Not just the closed league system the FFA has developed. 

Furthermore, most on here, if you read the other topics, have vehemently supported a national 2nd division and pro/rel. 


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That was my question really. What produced Viduka, Aloisi, Kennedy, Zdrillic, Agostino, Mori and Zane? Was it the NSL system?

If a young A League striker goes abroad they can still improve but all of them get tied down at shit levels and even worse clubs. There's so much room for improvement but the ones we have now keep getting stuck down there. 

Here's to hoping Folami and Popovic kick on. 
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The morning after. I'm so sad. We had 4 pretty decent chances. The two created by Rogic were golden. Juric being free might have been something. Leckie going to ground was unnecessary. Behich just wide and Cahill had the shot blocked.

Being a large contributor on Aussies abroad it's really hard to see them all scoring for clubs but it didn't work as a group in the green and gold. 
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socceroo_06 - 27 Jun 2018 3:39 PM
Freaken - 27 Jun 2018 3:24 PM

I don't get who he is speaking to on here. I'd hazard a guess the majority of people on 442 did not support the treatment of the foundation NSL clubs [I certainly didn't]. 

442 members support ALL football in Australia. Not just the closed league system the FFA has developed. 

Furthermore, most on here, if you read the other topics, have vehemently supported a national 2nd division and pro/rel. 


I have to disagree with you on your first point.

Although understandable, the problems of the game were lumped onto Soccer Australia and the NSL clubs. The propaganda was designed that way to achieve that outcome. The Crawford Report was designed to topple the Soccer Australia board although it was sold to the Australian public as a prescription to the ills of the sport. The rest is history.

Were the recommendations in the Crawford Report implemented? Only the ones Lowy wanted. The rest were ignored. That wasn't its function. Its function was to manufacture consent.

Now we have a civil war at the adminstrative/political side of the game. People were sold a lie.

If you actually believe the FFA is interested in the development of the sport you just don't get it. It's interested in its own survival. Lowy still believes the wolves are at the door waiting to take him down.

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johnszasz - 27 Jun 2018 4:03 PM
That was my question really. What produced Viduka, Aloisi, Kennedy, Zdrillic, Agostino, Mori and Zane? Was it the NSL system?

 

Yes.

Not the clubs specifically, but the system. It worked. It got us to the 1997 WC youth final. Remember those heady days?

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Freaken - 27 Jun 2018 4:18 PM
socceroo_06 - 27 Jun 2018 3:39 PM

I have to disagree with you on your first point.

Although understandable, the problems of the game were lumped onto Soccer Australia and the NSL clubs. The propaganda was designed that way to achieve that outcome. The Crawford Report was designed to topple the Soccer Australia board although it was sold to the Australian public as a prescription to the ills of the sport. The rest is history.

Were the recommendations in the Crawford Report implemented? Only the ones Lowy wanted. The rest were ignored. That wasn't its function. Its function was to manufacture consent.

Now we have a civil war at the adminstrative/political side of the game. People were sold a lie.

If you actually believe the FFA is interested in the development of the sport you just don't get it. It's interested in its own survival. Lowy still believes the wolves are at the door waiting to take him down.

I don't think it's as simple as that. 

There are plenty of people within the FFA ecosystem who are interested in the development of the sport. I just think there are a few people at the very top who have little idea about the game, yet seem to be making all the "captains calls". The system is very un-democratic. 



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socceroo_06 - 27 Jun 2018 4:31 PM
Freaken - 27 Jun 2018 4:18 PM

I don't think it's as simple as that. 

There are plenty of people within the FFA ecosystem who are interested in the development of the sport. I just think there are a few people at the very top who have little idea about the game, yet seem to be making all the "captains calls". The system is very un-democratic. 



That is always the case in a political environment. In every building in every business in every office. Intelligent people out, sycophants in.

Soccer Australia used to be a $18m business employing 25 people showing no profit but at least there were results at the youth level and a development stream. Now the FFA is a $100m business employing 200 people and still cant show a profit with no results. What do you think the last 15 years was really about?

The system has become bottom up where the money goes from the bottom up to the top. Do you know what they call that in the finance world? .....a Ponzi scheme.

Certain people have finally figured it out and we now have a civil war at the administrative level.

Development has suffered because its a cash cow for the FFA. Do you think the money is going to flow the other way? Hell no.

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grazorblade - 27 Jun 2018 8:46 AM
Burztur - 27 Jun 2018 8:43 AM

yeah me 2 he solved our right back problem in one month. Maybe with 4 years he solves our finishing problem. Teach arzani how to defend and finish and continue to work with nabbout and folami and all of sudden we have a functioning team

There were just the occasional positional mistake leading to some of our goals. If he has us for four years we only concede 3 probably

Absolutely, the squad improved immensely in a very short time. Wish we could have him longer.

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johnszasz - 27 Jun 2018 4:10 PM
The morning after. I'm so sad. We had 4 pretty decent chances. The two created by Rogic were golden. Juric being free might have been something. Leckie going to ground was unnecessary. Behich just wide and Cahill had the shot blocked.

Being a large contributor on Aussies abroad it's really hard to see them all scoring for clubs but it didn't work as a group in the green and gold. 

Bert was glowing during the first minutes. Yeah unlucky and sad how it went. 


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Freaken - 27 Jun 2018 3:24 PM
socceroo_06 - 27 Jun 2018 10:22 AM

By "you", I think he meant those of "you" who wanted these traditional clubs thrown out of the top league.

The NSL wasn't just a bunch of "wog" teams playing at the top level but it was an ecosystem. Development clubs playing from U/12's to the top.

But there was no showpiece competiton relevant to "Australians". The strong desire to compete against showpiece comps like NRL and AFL and Super12 lead to this move to ditch the NSL and the clubs. But people with good intentions didn't understand that the NSL wasn't a shit comp with wog clubs who had no mainstream appeal but a ecosystem of development. They threw out the baby with the bathwater.

15 years on we are just starting to see the insurmountable problems this has caused. I'm pretty sure in 4 years we'll be lamenting the loss of Milligan and Jedinak.because we can't cover those spots

We were all rightly happy to see that list of the Socceroos XI with the A-League teams they played for as seniors, but where were they at u16 level, or u12, or u8?

It's great that we have Melbourne Victory, Sydney FC etc doing well as clubs, but you are spot on in that the baby was thrown out with the bathwater.
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Just watched Foz and Lucy the evening after. Wondering if supporters of every nation that fails to get out of their groups have to listen to their own version.
Makes out that the PM himself holds some responsibility for Australia not going to the WC expecting to win the cup.
Ffs countries with the football pedigree of Hungary and Holland have never won the WC and weren’t even there this year. Imagine having to put up with the tirade from von Foz.

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clockwork orange - 27 Jun 2018 8:04 PM
Just watched Foz and Lucy the evening after. Wondering if supporters of every nation that fails to get out of their groups have to listen to their own version. Makes out that the PM himself holds some responsibility for Australia not going to the WC expecting to win the cup.Ffs countries with the football pedigree of Hungary and Holland have never won the WC and weren’t even there this year. Imagine having to put up with the tirade from von Foz.

Yeah many countries have the same post tournament talks. Argentina had a minute silence ffs 
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SWandP - 27 Jun 2018 1:47 AM
France and Denmark literally standing still passing side to side.  We were never in this.

It sounds like the fix was in between those two teams against us. 
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Holding Bidfielder - 27 Jun 2018 1:49 AM
Victardy - 27 Jun 2018 1:46 AM

^ Having more than 9 professional teams and actually giving young strikers a proper chance would be a good start lol

Young Australian strikers, not foreign ones. 
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New Zealand where better then the Socceroos when they meet Peru. Socceroos have sunk lower then OFC in this match. All Whites would have won given a 3rd meeting between the two of them.

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nomates - 28 Jun 2018 1:37 AM
New Zealand where better then the Socceroos when they meet Peru. Socceroos have sunk lower then OFC in this match. All Whites would have won given a 3rd meeting between the two of them.

Well, maybe by the 3rd game the all whites might just get a shot on target.
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Damo Baresi - 28 Jun 2018 1:34 AM
Holding Bidfielder - 27 Jun 2018 1:49 AM

Young Australian strikers, not foreign ones. 

We aren't under any threat of young foreign strikers. It's the 38 year old ones that we should be worried about. 
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socceroo_06 - 27 Jun 2018 3:39 PM
Freaken - 27 Jun 2018 3:24 PM

I don't get who he is speaking to on here. I'd hazard a guess the majority of people on 442 did not support the treatment of the foundation NSL clubs [I certainly didn't]. 

442 members support ALL football in Australia. Not just the closed league system the FFA has developed. 

Furthermore, most on here, if you read the other topics, have vehemently supported a national 2nd division and pro/rel. 


Freaken is a well known Anarchy Forum Bitter.

He is  a member of a group of Australian football supporters who hate the A League and the Socceroos, because they thought their former ethnic NSL clubs should have been part of the original HAL paradigm.

Many of these Bitters rejoice at the Socceroos losing.

Thankfully, the inception of the FFA Cup, and hopefully the introduction  of pro/rel, is starting to  bring them into the tent. Almost everybody in Oz football wants to see HAL 2.

Freaken is one of the most cicil, literate and benign of these Bitters.

Interesting he is posting here rather than Football Anarchy.
Edited
7 Years Ago by Decentric
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Decentric - 28 Jun 2018 8:22 AM
socceroo_06 - 27 Jun 2018 3:39 PM

Freaken is a well known Anarchy Forum Bitter.

He is  a member of a group of Australian football supporters who hate the A League and the Socceroos, because they thought their former ethnic NSL clubs should have been part of the original HAL paradigm.

Many of these Bitters rejoice at the Socceroos losing.

Thankfully, the inception of the FFA Cup, and hopefully the introduction  of pro/rel, is starting to  bring them into the tent. Almost everybody in Oz football wants to see HAL 2.

Freaken is one of the most cicil, literate and benign of these Bitters.

Interesting he is posting here rather than Football Anarchy.

Ohhh and you're so credible. So F***n what which forum he comes from, bitter or plastic.

he has hit the nail on the head with everything he has said in this thread about the state of the game.

Where would you disagree? 

Not a Phase, Not a Trend, SYDNEY UNITED till the END! 

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clockwork orange - 27 Jun 2018 3:27 PM
crimsoncrusoe - 27 Jun 2018 11:44 AM

Good observation - but it would have been a very brave coach to not select the captain who has scored 5 goals in 3 competitive matches and in three successive WC games.

Jedi's influence is much greater than his playing capabilities.

He is very experienced and has been a terrific leader.  Jedi was a calming influence on his less experienced teammates. A player has to know one's own game well to organise the players around them. He is also a terrific penalty taker when we are under enormous pressure in the biggest games we play.

At the same time I feel sorry for Luongo not getting a run. His form deserved it.
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19-SU-58 - 28 Jun 2018 8:34 AM
Decentric - 28 Jun 2018 8:22 AM

Ohhh and you're so credible. So F***n what which forum he comes from, bitter or plastic.

he has hit the nail on the head with everything he has said in this thread about the state of the game.

Where would you disagree? 

I haven't read it, but I've probably refuted it elsewhere.

This thread is about Australia v Peru.

I'm not  derailing the thread. Anarchy Bitters and Eurosnobs will look for any opportunity to derail this thread. I suggest to others, don't bite.
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7 Years Ago by Decentric
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paladisious - 27 Jun 2018 7:34 PM
grazorblade - 27 Jun 2018 8:46 AM

Absolutely, the squad improved immensely in a very short time. Wish we could have him longer.

I'm simply gobsmacked more cannot see the good work BVM has done in such a short time.

I feel sad the current Socceroos and BVM, competitive in every game in Russia, which has never been achieved at any WC before, will never receive the accolades they deserve in Australia.

I wish BVM was staying on. I think he is the greatest coach we've had for the Socceroos.

In 5  out of 6 objective, specific football analytical criteria, the Socceroos have improved immeasurably  under Bert in Russia.

BVM was very happy with he way the team performed, but could not believe how our finishing and attacking interplay was so far behind the other five aspects of play where  we matched it with the world's best. 
19-SU-58
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Decentric - 28 Jun 2018 8:39 AM
19-SU-58 - 28 Jun 2018 8:34 AM

I haven't read it, but I've probably refuted it elsewhere.

This thread is about Australia v Peru.

I'm not  derailing the thread. Anarchy Bitters and Eurosnobs will look for any opportunity to derail this thread. I suggest to others, don't bite.

It's all relevant. 
in other words, you agree with him and have no answers.


carry on....

Not a Phase, Not a Trend, SYDNEY UNITED till the END! 

GO


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