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socceroo_06
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+x+xAre we not jumping at shadows here? If we are rating the current Socceroos squad that played in Russia, a large number of them have not benefited from the SAP programme, in fact I’d hazard a guess only Arzani has come across it during his time with Vidmar at the AIS. How about we wait for the 2022 cycle before we jump to conclusions about how technically proficient our players are. The gap between closing down the NSL and starting up the A-League has a big impact on the development of the current squad. We are improving technical qualities in players- handling speed, 1v1 evasion skills, ball carrying. I remember a list compiled by Grazorblade. They were mainly short in stature - DDS, Caletti, Arzani, McGree, et al. Josh Hope is a bit taller. One thing that is changing, is I've never seen so many muscular players in international football in Russia, even in the upper body. Socceroos are starting to look puny compared to most opposition at the WC, particularly the Northern European and Eastern European countries. We must not neglect body on body physicality and strength, which has previously been one recognised quality in our players by FIFA Tech Depts. I see these as particularly important attributes in centre-backs and defensive midfielders, somewhat important for full-backs too but not vital. Don't think it benefits having these sorts of players in the attacking third though. The one thing I do notice about the attacking players, even the small ones, is that they have incredible core strength which allows them to turn on a dime and have that explosive pace from a standing start.
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Bundoora B
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+x+xThe statement "we used to have 20 Arzani's in the past" is the headline, then that headline is click bait is WRONG we never had 20 Arzani's in the past.
But we had plenty of technically strong players in various positions in the recent past.
In fact we had more technically proficient players in the past than we have today.
For various reasons this has occurred, such as social, economic and cultural.
The NC, FFA, Lowy, Member Federations, Coaches past and present, structures etc. have nothing to do with it.
We are where we are because that's our level, we were where we where because that was our level then.
Where do we go from here?
1) Don't ever hire a foreigner again as our National Coach it is a "Coach Development" opportunity lost on our domestic coaches. Besides no Foreign Coach has EVER won a World Cup. In fact STOP hiring Foreign Coaches as National TD's and start hiring Domestic Coaches, BUT EDUCATE THEM.
2) Get rid of this Franchise, over-regulated National Competition that is holding the game back. De-regulate, open the levels up and make it "Criteria" based. We are losing too much capital investment in Infrastructure and Human Capital.
3) Implement a strategic focus on developing;
Infrastructure both new and updating current infrastructure at ALL LEVELS of the game.
Stop price gouging Coaching courses where the FFA is pocketing 60% of course fees and create better YOUTH DEVELOPMENT outcomes AT ALL LEVELS by having more better prepared and educated coaches.
Use both of these strategies to strengthen FOOTBALL CULTURE in FOOTBALL CLUBS at ALL LEVELS.
4) Take a LONG TERM APPROACH to FOOTBALL DEVELOPMENT and EDUCATION in players, parents, coaches and clubs.
As far as Arzani is concerned its a DISGRACE on our GAME that at 19 and a half he has only had 24 Senior A-League games.
Its a DISGRACE that players at a similar level to him are locked in the same environment.
Happening at A-League Level and NPL Level.
Preach Arthur, preach... And to demonstrate your point about the blocks infront of young players here... We constantly hear about all the foreign players in the EPL stopping English lads getting a game - but Trent Alexander-Arnold has played more first team games for Liverpool than Arzani has for Melbourne City; Marcus Rashford (only 3 months older than Arzani) has played 3 times as many games for Man Utd AND has only played 1 less for England than Arzani has for City... If you're good enough there should always be an opportunity. So long as we have a 10 team league, playing a 27 game season, and sitting around for a 4 month closed-season, we'll never develop. yup. our league is suffocating our game.
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Decentric
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+x+x+xwould arzani have stood out in the GG era? maybe he only stands out because of the lack of other attacking options. mate he has scored 3 goals in his entire career and we're talking about him standing out in a whole generation! He is the most over hyped player i have EVER seen in Oz. that's what im thinking. he had a good half of a season. that's it. people are just starved of flair in the aus ranks. he certainly has not done enough to even get a sniff of the NT in the GG. the kid needs a couple seasons of consistent performance at a decent level before we can really know where he is at. you think of players like robbie kruse and what they were like before they left aus. has arzani done any more that robbie kruse, no, but he is a lot younger. i dont think robbie kruse would have stood out in the gg - maybe a flash when he peaked. The point is, Arzani performed effectively against top opposition in the WC, and just before it. Forget what he has or hasn't done in club football, he has delivered at the highest level.
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grazorblade
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+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward I agree that the ntc can only make a modest improvement I don't think we used to have 20 Arzanis but we seem to have 20 Arzanis now most of whom aren't getting game time because they are only 9 clubs and players like Arzani don't get a shot when they are a league level, he only got a shot when he was a class above We need a 2nd division yesterday
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Decentric
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Group: Awaiting Activation
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+x+x+xAre we not jumping at shadows here? If we are rating the current Socceroos squad that played in Russia, a large number of them have not benefited from the SAP programme, in fact I’d hazard a guess only Arzani has come across it during his time with Vidmar at the AIS. How about we wait for the 2022 cycle before we jump to conclusions about how technically proficient our players are. The gap between closing down the NSL and starting up the A-League has a big impact on the development of the current squad. We are improving technical qualities in players- handling speed, 1v1 evasion skills, ball carrying. I remember a list compiled by Grazorblade. They were mainly short in stature - DDS, Caletti, Arzani, McGree, et al. Josh Hope is a bit taller. One thing that is changing, is I've never seen so many muscular players in international football in Russia, even in the upper body. Socceroos are starting to look puny compared to most opposition at the WC, particularly the Northern European and Eastern European countries. We must not neglect body on body physicality and strength, which has previously been one recognised quality in our players by FIFA Tech Depts. The one thing I do notice about the attacking players, even the small ones, is that they have incredible core strength which allows them to turn on a dime and have that explosive pace from a standing start. I've raised a point that some people who adulate all Euroepan football don't like - that these shorter players, who can turn so quickly, are used by European powerhouses, plus South American countries, Mexico, Costa Rica, Japan, African countries, and even us. These players are often game changers - Messi, Neymar, Shaqiri, Griezmann, Sterling, E Hazard, DePappe ? et al. Surprisingly, I thought Denmark's most effective player against us by far, was Sinto ?. He was a lovely dribbler and ball carrier, and was a thorn in our side. They dropped him next game!
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Arthur
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+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward I agree that the ntc can only make a modest improvement I don't think we used to have 20 Arzanis but we seem to have 20 Arzanis now most of whom aren't getting game time because they are only 9 clubs and players like Arzani don't get a shot when they are a league level, he only got a shot when he was a class above We need a 2nd division yesterday NTC programs should only identify talent and "assist" in player development, not take over. NTC in Victoria played as a Club in local competition. They take the best age cohorts out of the club system. Then play them up in age group to get physically smashed. What we don't have figures on is how many don't go on!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many kids from NTC don't play anymore???? Bad practice sorry to say.
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 23K,
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+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward Berger said that some years ago. We are improving in game sense, and have improved immeasurably since Berger made that comment. It is no coincidence BVM, Mark VB, et al, found the Socceroos easy to coach - better tactically coached players with better football education equals better game sense. If some of Rale's and Ron Smith's prodigies, Crino, Patikas, et al, played in the current Socceroos, they would lack the game sense to carry out sophisticated tactical plans. I think you're missing the point Decentric. It's not about game-sense, on the pitch, reading and understanding what is required IN THIS MATCH... It's about a national culture. It's about understanding what is required at a wider level. This is not directed at the non-football community, but at the football association level, down through coach education, to the coaches themselves, the clubs at all levels, etc. It's all about following a neat set of guidelines - and we're so busy following that neat set of guidelines that we lose track of the overall picture - which goes back to the other thread of the moment, the production of robots. Pass - pass - pass - but don't progress. All possession, no transition. Happy to stand still and look at the participation (possession) stats, rather than look up and see what we're actually doing with that participation. Are we getting more infrastructure? More teams? Longer seasons? More opportunity for more players? None of it - but hey, we've got the numbers, and we've got the ball, so everything will be just fine...
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socceroo_06
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.6K,
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+x+xAre we not jumping at shadows here? If we are rating the current Socceroos squad that played in Russia, a large number of them have not benefited from the SAP programme, in fact I’d hazard a guess only Arzani has come across it during his time with Vidmar at the AIS. How about we wait for the 2022 cycle before we jump to conclusions about how technically proficient our players are. The gap between closing down the NSL and starting up the A-League has a big impact on the development of the current squad. The SAP program is not a panacea. I know it's not a silver bullet by itself, but it is an integral part of the development plan as is an expanded A-league, 2nd tier comp, lowering fees for youth and academies down to U12. We had next to nothing from about 2001 till 2008. Those 7 years missed in youth development terms is an entire generation of players that have missed out on this opportunity [these players are now aged anywhere between 23-30].
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 23K,
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+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward I agree that the ntc can only make a modest improvement I don't think we used to have 20 Arzanis but we seem to have 20 Arzanis now most of whom aren't getting game time because they are only 9 clubs and players like Arzani don't get a shot when they are a league level, he only got a shot when he was a class above We need a 2nd division yesterday I'd say we've got one Arzani, and 19 potential Tommy Oar clones... Problem is the Oar clones will never get a chance to show what they can do because of the lack of teams. 2nd division essential, larger 1st division essential, re-organised NPL/State League system essential. Every playing level in Australia appears to be based on how many games the club can afford to play - whilst the club is paying their players too much...
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Decentric
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K,
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+x+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward Berger said that some years ago. We are improving in game sense, and have improved immeasurably since Berger made that comment. It is no coincidence BVM, Mark VB, et al, found the Socceroos easy to coach - better tactically coached players with better football education equals better game sense. If some of Rale's and Ron Smith's prodigies, Crino, Patikas, et al, played in the current Socceroos, they would lack the game sense to carry out sophisticated tactical plans. I think you're missing the point Decentric. It's not about game-sense, on the pitch, reading and understanding what is required IN THIS MATCH... It's about a national culture. It's about understanding what is required at a wider level. This is not directed at the non-football community, but at the football association level, down through coach education, to the coaches themselves, the clubs at all levels, etc. It's all about following a neat set of guidelines - and we're so busy following that neat set of guidelines that we lose track of the overall picture - which goes back to the other thread of the moment, the production of robots. Pass - pass - pass - but don't progress. All possession, no transition. Happy to stand still and look at the participation (possession) stats, rather than look up and see what we're actually doing with that participation. Are we getting more infrastructure? More teams? Longer seasons? More opportunity for more players? None of it - but hey, we've got the numbers, and we've got the ball, so everything will be just fine... The last points you make are cogent. I think you would find it difficult to find anyone arguing against them. Empirically, this World Cup has shown a lot of progress under BVM. We had a lot of ball going forwards too. There were more early balls played forwards. There were more instances of accelerated attacks, and the rhythm was sped up more frequently. We just didn't do much with the ball when we delivered it into the right places in the attacking third. We are a basket case in attacking interplay and scoring goals against world class opposition. We desperately need help - probably from overseas to rectify this facet of play to bring it into line with the rest of our game. For the first time we could do with some English coaching advice on converting goals from chances created, as well as from Brazil, Belgium, Croatia and France.
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grazorblade
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward I agree that the ntc can only make a modest improvement I don't think we used to have 20 Arzanis but we seem to have 20 Arzanis now most of whom aren't getting game time because they are only 9 clubs and players like Arzani don't get a shot when they are a league level, he only got a shot when he was a class above We need a 2nd division yesterday NTC programs should only identify talent and "assist" in player development, not take over. NTC in Victoria played as a Club in local competition. They take the best age cohorts out of the club system. Then play them up in age group to get physically smashed. What we don't have figures on is how many don't go on!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many kids from NTC don't play anymore???? Bad practice sorry to say. Playing kids against adults used to happen in cricket I think cricket has the same problem as football development where winning at underage youth games means picking big tough sloggers with a baseball swing with no technique. However, if u tell kids to follow correct technical practice they don't develop a winning mentality and a competitive nature. So they used to try and get the best of both worlds by playing youth in lower men's divisions (usually as young as 12 or 13). This meant selecting physical sloggers was ineffective and the only thing that gave urself a chance. By the end of a season you were usually winning matches and u have developed technique, mental grit and self belief Performance and results
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socceroo_06
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.6K,
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+x+x+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward Berger said that some years ago. We are improving in game sense, and have improved immeasurably since Berger made that comment. It is no coincidence BVM, Mark VB, et al, found the Socceroos easy to coach - better tactically coached players with better football education equals better game sense. If some of Rale's and Ron Smith's prodigies, Crino, Patikas, et al, played in the current Socceroos, they would lack the game sense to carry out sophisticated tactical plans. I think you're missing the point Decentric. It's not about game-sense, on the pitch, reading and understanding what is required IN THIS MATCH... It's about a national culture. It's about understanding what is required at a wider level. This is not directed at the non-football community, but at the football association level, down through coach education, to the coaches themselves, the clubs at all levels, etc. It's all about following a neat set of guidelines - and we're so busy following that neat set of guidelines that we lose track of the overall picture - which goes back to the other thread of the moment, the production of robots. Pass - pass - pass - but don't progress. All possession, no transition. Happy to stand still and look at the participation (possession) stats, rather than look up and see what we're actually doing with that participation. Are we getting more infrastructure? More teams? Longer seasons? More opportunity for more players? None of it - but hey, we've got the numbers, and we've got the ball, so everything will be just fine... The last points you make are cogent. I think you would find it difficult to find anyone arguing against them. Empirically, this World Cup has shown a lot of progress under BVM. Except we are a basket case in attacking interplay and scoring goals against world class opposition. We desperately need help - probably from overseas to rectify this facet of play to bring it into line with the rest of our game. For the first time we would do with some English coaching advice on converting goals from chances created, as well as from Brazil, Belgium, Croatia and France. Doesn't Batistuta live in Australia? FFA should pick his brains and set-up a specific striker identification & SAP program with his input.
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Decentric
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Group: Awaiting Activation
Posts: 22K,
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+x+x+x+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward Berger said that some years ago. We are improving in game sense, and have improved immeasurably since Berger made that comment. It is no coincidence BVM, Mark VB, et al, found the Socceroos easy to coach - better tactically coached players with better football education equals better game sense. If some of Rale's and Ron Smith's prodigies, Crino, Patikas, et al, played in the current Socceroos, they would lack the game sense to carry out sophisticated tactical plans. I think you're missing the point Decentric. It's not about game-sense, on the pitch, reading and understanding what is required IN THIS MATCH... It's about a national culture. It's about understanding what is required at a wider level. This is not directed at the non-football community, but at the football association level, down through coach education, to the coaches themselves, the clubs at all levels, etc. It's all about following a neat set of guidelines - and we're so busy following that neat set of guidelines that we lose track of the overall picture - which goes back to the other thread of the moment, the production of robots. Pass - pass - pass - but don't progress. All possession, no transition. Happy to stand still and look at the participation (possession) stats, rather than look up and see what we're actually doing with that participation. Are we getting more infrastructure? More teams? Longer seasons? More opportunity for more players? None of it - but hey, we've got the numbers, and we've got the ball, so everything will be just fine... The last points you make are cogent. I think you would find it difficult to find anyone arguing against them. Empirically, this World Cup has shown a lot of progress under BVM. Except we are a basket case in attacking interplay and scoring goals against world class opposition. We desperately need help - probably from overseas to rectify this facet of play to bring it into line with the rest of our game. For the first time we would do with some English coaching advice on converting goals from chances created, as well as from Brazil, Belgium, Croatia and France. Doesn't Batistuta live in Australia? FFA should pick his brains and set-up a specific striker identification & SAP program with his input. Definitely a resource to be used. Except he has severe leg pain, to the extent he wanted to amputate. Poor bloke!
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Bundoora B
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 12K,
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+x+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward I agree that the ntc can only make a modest improvement I don't think we used to have 20 Arzanis but we seem to have 20 Arzanis now most of whom aren't getting game time because they are only 9 clubs and players like Arzani don't get a shot when they are a league level, he only got a shot when he was a class above We need a 2nd division yesterday I'd say we've got one Arzani, and 19 potential Tommy Oar clones... Problem is the Oar clones will never get a chance to show what they can do because of the lack of teams. 2nd division essential, larger 1st division essential, re-organised NPL/State League system essential. Every playing level in Australia appears to be based on how many games the club can afford to play - whilst the club is paying their players too much... this is a good point. because when you look at tommy oar, he was only ever a couple steps away from really stepping up into a good league and playing at a very high level. a couple of these 19 tommy oars would actually make that step up. without opportunities for these 19 tommy oars, we are wasting a lot of our local talent.
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City Sam
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFor the delusional people on here, just compare the squads from 2006 and where they were playing to this years team. All the armchair experts like Decentric can sprout their crap opinions and make excuses, but if current gen was any good they would be playing at better clubs. Full Stop. Check Mate. 2006 Squad2018 Squad:
Armchair expert! LOL! I've had 14 years coaching experience on the pitch including two roles as TD - one at a NPL club. Teams are not comprised of cattle who reach a certain standard because they play at clubs playing in good leagues. It is a question of developing them into an effective team unit, otherwise Brazil would win every WC based on the quality of their players and which clubs they play at. The current Socceroos are far better equipped tactically and better educated. This enables them to play more effectively as a cohesive team unit, compared to the 2006 Socceroos and any generation before that. This is because they have a better grasp of structure, communication and tactics, having all been educated in a similar way - European powerhouse methodology extrapolated to Oz. Sorry, my mistake, your 14 years of Tasmanian state league experience makes you far better equipped to judge the ability of players to play in first division European leagues, than the international coaches over there. Grasshoppers is an excellent team and more Aussie kids should aspire to play for them as they will get much better tactical education there than in the EPL, La Liga, etc. Also how silly of me, why would we want to develop players like Brazil, pffft, they only made the quarters this year and have won it like, 5 times, whats that when compared to the tactically equipped and edumacated socceroos........ you are an idiot You've used some casuaristic reasoning to claim I've proffered this! I've never criticised Brazilian technical development. LOL! When in Switzerland I read a big article where they claim Roy Hodgson is the progenitor of their overhauled football system. They possibly have good liaison between the pro clubs and the grass roots, but they don't have a holistic national system. ATM apart from Shaquiri and one or two others, they are also a team of plodders. More rubbish, many excellent players in the squad currently and coming through. Shaqiri, Xhaka, Lichsteiner, Rodriguez, Embolo, Akanji and plenty other young players playing regularly now at many Bundesliga clubs from moves from the Swiss League. Even a technically excellent player in Frueler who plays for Atalanta can't get any minutes because they have a very good team. More factually correct statements from Decentric. Keep it coming In this WC the Swiss drew with Costa Rica - a very poor result, using Eurosnobs' criteria that any North American team is inherently inferior to any European team. They had a lucky, back to the wall, defend deep, partial press, draw against Brazil, where they were easily the worst team on the day - and any other. It was a game exemplifying a typical European plodder playing Reactive football against a veritable, technically brilliant powerhouse playing Proactive football. Some days they will nick a result - and they did. Beating Serbia 2-1 is a good result. Serbia play some decent football and have a decent football education system. Losing to Sweden, a veritable European plodder, is a shocking result. I didn't see the game to view the balance of play. Italy lost to Sweden, Germany and Netherlands failed to qualify above them. What does that say about those teams how they failed against the awful plodders, who by the way actually do play good technical football too. Switzerland in recent years have become a very good team, constantly making the knockouts and always put up a good fight. They nearly took down Argentina in 2014, defeated Spain in 2010 among plenty other good results. It is also hilarious how you are calling their performance against Brazil as lucky while lauding our performance against France when we showed even less intent. You are a hypocrite who has no information about any of these teams you keep talking about apart from 3rd hand information from a seminar you heard ages ago. You even mention yourself you don't watch the games, you clearly don't know any of the players or how these sides actually set up, yet you keep acting like you do. You also mentioned how Russia just play sit deep and hoof the ball, you'd also have realised if you watched their match against Croatia or any match apart from against Spain that they actually took the game on and played some very nice football. I don't profess to have seen all games in any comp. Nevertheless, I've seen many European Champs and ECQs, European WCQs, as well as games in Russia. In Sweden's game against England, I saw only one Swedish player receive and turn with outside of the foot - which achieved wrong footing the English defender . The same player used outside of the foot whilst dribbling too. I only saw one Swedish player use the outside of the foot for passing in close confines. If the outside of the foot is used in quick passing and moving sequences, there is a simultaneous fake, which wrongfoots opponents at the time of the pass. It doesn't mean use the outside of the foot all the time, but interspersed with side of the foot, and shoelace passing, it creates better and less predictable passing sequences which is harder to intercept. I also very rarely observed the Swedes pass in limited time and space. They lacked the technical qualities. They couldn't build up patiently through central midfield. Again the powerhouses, have players use the outside of the foot all the time. The plodders don't. For Croatia, players like Modric can pass over range with the outside of the foot too. England , when playing Sweden had a superb ball carrier and dribbler in Sterling. They also had two excellent ball carrying and dribbling wingers and a decent number 10 with similar qualities. All these player use a lot of outside of the foot in 1v1 evasion skills - well. The English CBs and DMs are also good passers and movers. They moved in triangles and diamonds to play out from the back. Who says what to whom and when has improved immeasurably for England in Ball Possession in the back half and central midfield areas of the pitch. England have developed successful international football practices under Holland and Southgate - instead of until recently playing direct long ball dross. England can also maintain posses under pressure in the back half of the pitch and slow the game down, much better than before. They use rhythm changes, like traditional powerhouses. Even plodders like us, have Rogic, Arzani, Mooy, Behich and Milligan who can perform rapid-fire passing in tight spaces. Whilst lauding our defensive performance against France, trying to stop them playing, and castigating Switzerland's against Brazil, they are a very rich country, who pour big money into football. It it is also their main sport. We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. There's one vitally important thing you have failed to grasp why their are less than a handful of nations who actually manage to have continual international success which is definitely a more recent phenomenon. The reason is these days their are only 5 leagues in the world capable of developing players to a standard strong enough to compete at the business end of tournaments on a regular basis. What does that mean? Basically what it means is the development of players is in the hands of foreign leagues, the best most leagues can achieve is to create a system where the best young talent is shipped off to a better league where the entire nation has to hope they reach their potential. Why do you think the South American nations are becoming more unsuccessful? Or why the Dutch are really starting to struggle internationally? Because in the past they could develop all their players locally, play in clubs together and to a standard good enough to win a world cup, now they need to ship their players all around the world, playing at different clubs with different philosophies. This means there'll be no continual success for any nations outside these countries and they just have to hope for essentially a golden generation capable of playing well together to have any chance of success.
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xAre we not jumping at shadows here? If we are rating the current Socceroos squad that played in Russia, a large number of them have not benefited from the SAP programme, in fact I’d hazard a guess only Arzani has come across it during his time with Vidmar at the AIS. How about we wait for the 2022 cycle before we jump to conclusions about how technically proficient our players are. The gap between closing down the NSL and starting up the A-League has a big impact on the development of the current squad. The SAP program is not a panacea. I know it's not a silver bullet by itself, but it is an integral part of the development plan as is an expanded A-league, 2nd tier comp, lowering fees for youth and academies down to U12. We had next to nothing from about 2001 till 2008. Those 7 years missed in youth development terms is an entire generation of players that have missed out on this opportunity [these players are now aged anywhere between 23-30]. Lowering fees for Youth? Don't see it. In Victoria the growth of Private Academies has been astounding. Three top Academies I know directly of one charges $10,000pa, another $2,600pa plus add ons and finally another $2,000pa plus add ons. NPL Program is seen as a failure here. Kids doing NPL and the above listed academies (Two run by well known FFA identities) Melbourne City has more kids than you can poke a stick at. The problems we had for Youth between 2001 till 2008 are still exist; WEAK FROOTBALL CULTURE.
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward Berger said that some years ago. We are improving in game sense, and have improved immeasurably since Berger made that comment. It is no coincidence BVM, Mark VB, et al, found the Socceroos easy to coach - better tactically coached players with better football education equals better game sense. If some of Rale's and Ron Smith's prodigies, Crino, Patikas, et al, played in the current Socceroos, they would lack the game sense to carry out sophisticated tactical plans. I think you're missing the point Decentric. It's not about game-sense, on the pitch, reading and understanding what is required IN THIS MATCH... It's about a national culture. It's about understanding what is required at a wider level. This is not directed at the non-football community, but at the football association level, down through coach education, to the coaches themselves, the clubs at all levels, etc. It's all about following a neat set of guidelines - and we're so busy following that neat set of guidelines that we lose track of the overall picture - which goes back to the other thread of the moment, the production of robots. Pass - pass - pass - but don't progress. All possession, no transition. Happy to stand still and look at the participation (possession) stats, rather than look up and see what we're actually doing with that participation. Are we getting more infrastructure? More teams? Longer seasons? More opportunity for more players? None of it - but hey, we've got the numbers, and we've got the ball, so everything will be just fine... The last points you make are cogent. I think you would find it difficult to find anyone arguing against them. Empirically, this World Cup has shown a lot of progress under BVM. Except we are a basket case in attacking interplay and scoring goals against world class opposition. We desperately need help - probably from overseas to rectify this facet of play to bring it into line with the rest of our game. For the first time we would do with some English coaching advice on converting goals from chances created, as well as from Brazil, Belgium, Croatia and France. Doesn't Batistuta live in Australia? FFA should pick his brains and set-up a specific striker identification & SAP program with his input. So you're telling me we are one coach short of winning a world cup? We better hire him quick.
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward I agree that the ntc can only make a modest improvement I don't think we used to have 20 Arzanis but we seem to have 20 Arzanis now most of whom aren't getting game time because they are only 9 clubs and players like Arzani don't get a shot when they are a league level, he only got a shot when he was a class above We need a 2nd division yesterday NTC programs should only identify talent and "assist" in player development, not take over. NTC in Victoria played as a Club in local competition. They take the best age cohorts out of the club system. Then play them up in age group to get physically smashed. What we don't have figures on is how many don't go on!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many kids from NTC don't play anymore???? Bad practice sorry to say. Playing kids against adults used to happen in cricket I think cricket has the same problem as football development where winning at underage youth games means picking big tough sloggers with a baseball swing with no technique. However, if u tell kids to follow correct technical practice they don't develop a winning mentality and a competitive nature. So they used to try and get the best of both worlds by playing youth in lower men's divisions (usually as young as 12 or 13). This meant selecting physical sloggers was ineffective and the only thing that gave urself a chance. By the end of a season you were usually winning matches and u have developed technique, mental grit and self belief Performance and results I'm sorry you lost me, I don't know anything about cricket.
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socceroo_06
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward Berger said that some years ago. We are improving in game sense, and have improved immeasurably since Berger made that comment. It is no coincidence BVM, Mark VB, et al, found the Socceroos easy to coach - better tactically coached players with better football education equals better game sense. If some of Rale's and Ron Smith's prodigies, Crino, Patikas, et al, played in the current Socceroos, they would lack the game sense to carry out sophisticated tactical plans. I think you're missing the point Decentric. It's not about game-sense, on the pitch, reading and understanding what is required IN THIS MATCH... It's about a national culture. It's about understanding what is required at a wider level. This is not directed at the non-football community, but at the football association level, down through coach education, to the coaches themselves, the clubs at all levels, etc. It's all about following a neat set of guidelines - and we're so busy following that neat set of guidelines that we lose track of the overall picture - which goes back to the other thread of the moment, the production of robots. Pass - pass - pass - but don't progress. All possession, no transition. Happy to stand still and look at the participation (possession) stats, rather than look up and see what we're actually doing with that participation. Are we getting more infrastructure? More teams? Longer seasons? More opportunity for more players? None of it - but hey, we've got the numbers, and we've got the ball, so everything will be just fine... The last points you make are cogent. I think you would find it difficult to find anyone arguing against them. Empirically, this World Cup has shown a lot of progress under BVM. Except we are a basket case in attacking interplay and scoring goals against world class opposition. We desperately need help - probably from overseas to rectify this facet of play to bring it into line with the rest of our game. For the first time we would do with some English coaching advice on converting goals from chances created, as well as from Brazil, Belgium, Croatia and France. Doesn't Batistuta live in Australia? FFA should pick his brains and set-up a specific striker identification & SAP program with his input. So you're telling me we are one coach short of winning a world cup? We better hire him quick. No i'm not telling you that, obviously you have a hard time comprehending basic English.
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward Berger said that some years ago. We are improving in game sense, and have improved immeasurably since Berger made that comment. It is no coincidence BVM, Mark VB, et al, found the Socceroos easy to coach - better tactically coached players with better football education equals better game sense. If some of Rale's and Ron Smith's prodigies, Crino, Patikas, et al, played in the current Socceroos, they would lack the game sense to carry out sophisticated tactical plans. I think you're missing the point Decentric. It's not about game-sense, on the pitch, reading and understanding what is required IN THIS MATCH... It's about a national culture. It's about understanding what is required at a wider level. This is not directed at the non-football community, but at the football association level, down through coach education, to the coaches themselves, the clubs at all levels, etc. It's all about following a neat set of guidelines - and we're so busy following that neat set of guidelines that we lose track of the overall picture - which goes back to the other thread of the moment, the production of robots. Pass - pass - pass - but don't progress. All possession, no transition. Happy to stand still and look at the participation (possession) stats, rather than look up and see what we're actually doing with that participation. Are we getting more infrastructure? More teams? Longer seasons? More opportunity for more players? None of it - but hey, we've got the numbers, and we've got the ball, so everything will be just fine... The last points you make are cogent. I think you would find it difficult to find anyone arguing against them. Empirically, this World Cup has shown a lot of progress under BVM. We had a lot of ball going forwards too. There were more early balls played forwards. There were more instances of accelerated attacks, and the rhythm was sped up more frequently. We just didn't do much with the ball when we delivered it into the right places in the attacking third. We are a basket case in attacking interplay and scoring goals against world class opposition. We desperately need help - probably from overseas to rectify this facet of play to bring it into line with the rest of our game. For the first time we could do with some English coaching advice on converting goals from chances created, as well as from Brazil, Belgium, Croatia and France. I think we did better under Ange in 2014 in terms of game play and dominance. In the end we are where we are for a reason. We don't have the infrastructure or the to put it another way the tools to progress further at the moment. And its not going to change under the current strategy. And look, lots of smart people have got strategies wrong, for example Woolworths with Masters. Huge strategic error. If we are going to progress the way I think you and others want to progress then the fundamental direction we need to take has to have a strategic change. A strategic change that focuses on changing the dynamics to affect our FOOTBALL CULTURE. What we have now is not the Global Standard in Football. We don't have Global Football Culture. Alternatively what you and others are telling me is this; We are one coach and two players away from succeeding at a World Cup. And that belief my fellow football fans is the problem.
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward Berger said that some years ago. We are improving in game sense, and have improved immeasurably since Berger made that comment. It is no coincidence BVM, Mark VB, et al, found the Socceroos easy to coach - better tactically coached players with better football education equals better game sense. If some of Rale's and Ron Smith's prodigies, Crino, Patikas, et al, played in the current Socceroos, they would lack the game sense to carry out sophisticated tactical plans. I think you're missing the point Decentric. It's not about game-sense, on the pitch, reading and understanding what is required IN THIS MATCH... It's about a national culture. It's about understanding what is required at a wider level. This is not directed at the non-football community, but at the football association level, down through coach education, to the coaches themselves, the clubs at all levels, etc. It's all about following a neat set of guidelines - and we're so busy following that neat set of guidelines that we lose track of the overall picture - which goes back to the other thread of the moment, the production of robots. Pass - pass - pass - but don't progress. All possession, no transition. Happy to stand still and look at the participation (possession) stats, rather than look up and see what we're actually doing with that participation. Are we getting more infrastructure? More teams? Longer seasons? More opportunity for more players? None of it - but hey, we've got the numbers, and we've got the ball, so everything will be just fine... The last points you make are cogent. I think you would find it difficult to find anyone arguing against them. Empirically, this World Cup has shown a lot of progress under BVM. Except we are a basket case in attacking interplay and scoring goals against world class opposition. We desperately need help - probably from overseas to rectify this facet of play to bring it into line with the rest of our game. For the first time we would do with some English coaching advice on converting goals from chances created, as well as from Brazil, Belgium, Croatia and France. Doesn't Batistuta live in Australia? FFA should pick his brains and set-up a specific striker identification & SAP program with his input. So you're telling me we are one coach short of winning a world cup? We better hire him quick. No i'm not telling you that, obviously you have a hard time comprehending basic English. Batistuta isn't going to solve the problems you suggest. Besides he doesn't live in Australia anymore.
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socceroo_06
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward Berger said that some years ago. We are improving in game sense, and have improved immeasurably since Berger made that comment. It is no coincidence BVM, Mark VB, et al, found the Socceroos easy to coach - better tactically coached players with better football education equals better game sense. If some of Rale's and Ron Smith's prodigies, Crino, Patikas, et al, played in the current Socceroos, they would lack the game sense to carry out sophisticated tactical plans. I think you're missing the point Decentric. It's not about game-sense, on the pitch, reading and understanding what is required IN THIS MATCH... It's about a national culture. It's about understanding what is required at a wider level. This is not directed at the non-football community, but at the football association level, down through coach education, to the coaches themselves, the clubs at all levels, etc. It's all about following a neat set of guidelines - and we're so busy following that neat set of guidelines that we lose track of the overall picture - which goes back to the other thread of the moment, the production of robots. Pass - pass - pass - but don't progress. All possession, no transition. Happy to stand still and look at the participation (possession) stats, rather than look up and see what we're actually doing with that participation. Are we getting more infrastructure? More teams? Longer seasons? More opportunity for more players? None of it - but hey, we've got the numbers, and we've got the ball, so everything will be just fine... The last points you make are cogent. I think you would find it difficult to find anyone arguing against them. Empirically, this World Cup has shown a lot of progress under BVM. Except we are a basket case in attacking interplay and scoring goals against world class opposition. We desperately need help - probably from overseas to rectify this facet of play to bring it into line with the rest of our game. For the first time we would do with some English coaching advice on converting goals from chances created, as well as from Brazil, Belgium, Croatia and France. Doesn't Batistuta live in Australia? FFA should pick his brains and set-up a specific striker identification & SAP program with his input. So you're telling me we are one coach short of winning a world cup? We better hire him quick. No i'm not telling you that, obviously you have a hard time comprehending basic English. Batistuta isn't going to solve the problems you suggest. Besides he doesn't live in Australia anymore. 'righto God, back to the drawing board.
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sokorny
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+x+x+x+xAre we not jumping at shadows here? If we are rating the current Socceroos squad that played in Russia, a large number of them have not benefited from the SAP programme, in fact I’d hazard a guess only Arzani has come across it during his time with Vidmar at the AIS. How about we wait for the 2022 cycle before we jump to conclusions about how technically proficient our players are. The gap between closing down the NSL and starting up the A-League has a big impact on the development of the current squad. The SAP program is not a panacea. I know it's not a silver bullet by itself, but it is an integral part of the development plan as is an expanded A-league, 2nd tier comp, lowering fees for youth and academies down to U12. We had next to nothing from about 2001 till 2008. Those 7 years missed in youth development terms is an entire generation of players that have missed out on this opportunity [these players are now aged anywhere between 23-30]. Lowering fees for Youth? Don't see it. In Victoria the growth of Private Academies has been astounding. Three top Academies I know directly of one charges $10,000pa, another $2,600pa plus add ons and finally another $2,000pa plus add ons. NPL Program is seen as a failure here. Kids doing NPL and the above listed academies (Two run by well known FFA identities) Melbourne City has more kids than you can poke a stick at. The problems we had for Youth between 2001 till 2008 are still exist; WEAK FOOTBALL CULTURE. Really this is the crux of the issue IMO. I would have imagined Viduka's, Kewell's, Zelic's families all lived and breathed football, and this filtered down to the kids. Their parents were probably associated with clubs too ... so got their kids into the game early and with lots of passion. Let's face it to be great you need to put in lots of hours, lots of hard work, make lots of sacrifices, heaps of commitments (nutrition, social life or lack of, fitness, dedication), parents need to spend dollars (travel, private sessions, rego fees, camps) etc. etc. You will only do all that if you have a passion for it, you have to love what you are doing ... not to mention you have to make all those decisions as a kid. Also you need to have a Plan B through all this, so you need to keep on top of your education as well as all that football work you need to do (consider in England that those who enter an academy at 9 that less than half of 1% make a living from the game, or 0.012% of kids playing organised football in England will play EPL).
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Decentric
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFor the delusional people on here, just compare the squads from 2006 and where they were playing to this years team. All the armchair experts like Decentric can sprout their crap opinions and make excuses, but if current gen was any good they would be playing at better clubs. Full Stop. Check Mate. 2006 Squad2018 Squad:
Armchair expert! LOL! I've had 14 years coaching experience on the pitch including two roles as TD - one at a NPL club. Teams are not comprised of cattle who reach a certain standard because they play at clubs playing in good leagues. It is a question of developing them into an effective team unit, otherwise Brazil would win every WC based on the quality of their players and which clubs they play at. The current Socceroos are far better equipped tactically and better educated. This enables them to play more effectively as a cohesive team unit, compared to the 2006 Socceroos and any generation before that. This is because they have a better grasp of structure, communication and tactics, having all been educated in a similar way - European powerhouse methodology extrapolated to Oz. Sorry, my mistake, your 14 years of Tasmanian state league experience makes you far better equipped to judge the ability of players to play in first division European leagues, than the international coaches over there. Grasshoppers is an excellent team and more Aussie kids should aspire to play for them as they will get much better tactical education there than in the EPL, La Liga, etc. Also how silly of me, why would we want to develop players like Brazil, pffft, they only made the quarters this year and have won it like, 5 times, whats that when compared to the tactically equipped and edumacated socceroos........ you are an idiot You've used some casuaristic reasoning to claim I've proffered this! I've never criticised Brazilian technical development. LOL! When in Switzerland I read a big article where they claim Roy Hodgson is the progenitor of their overhauled football system. They possibly have good liaison between the pro clubs and the grass roots, but they don't have a holistic national system. ATM apart from Shaquiri and one or two others, they are also a team of plodders. More rubbish, many excellent players in the squad currently and coming through. Shaqiri, Xhaka, Lichsteiner, Rodriguez, Embolo, Akanji and plenty other young players playing regularly now at many Bundesliga clubs from moves from the Swiss League. Even a technically excellent player in Frueler who plays for Atalanta can't get any minutes because they have a very good team. More factually correct statements from Decentric. Keep it coming In this WC the Swiss drew with Costa Rica - a very poor result, using Eurosnobs' criteria that any North American team is inherently inferior to any European team. They had a lucky, back to the wall, defend deep, partial press, draw against Brazil, where they were easily the worst team on the day - and any other. It was a game exemplifying a typical European plodder playing Reactive football against a veritable, technically brilliant powerhouse playing Proactive football. Some days they will nick a result - and they did. Beating Serbia 2-1 is a good result. Serbia play some decent football and have a decent football education system. Losing to Sweden, a veritable European plodder, is a shocking result. I didn't see the game to view the balance of play. Italy lost to Sweden, Germany and Netherlands failed to qualify above them. What does that say about those teams how they failed against the awful plodders, who by the way actually do play good technical football too. Switzerland in recent years have become a very good team, constantly making the knockouts and always put up a good fight. They nearly took down Argentina in 2014, defeated Spain in 2010 among plenty other good results. It is also hilarious how you are calling their performance against Brazil as lucky while lauding our performance against France when we showed even less intent. You are a hypocrite who has no information about any of these teams you keep talking about apart from 3rd hand information from a seminar you heard ages ago. You even mention yourself you don't watch the games, you clearly don't know any of the players or how these sides actually set up, yet you keep acting like you do. You also mentioned how Russia just play sit deep and hoof the ball, you'd also have realised if you watched their match against Croatia or any match apart from against Spain that they actually took the game on and played some very nice football. I don't profess to have seen all games in any comp. Nevertheless, I've seen many European Champs and ECQs, European WCQs, as well as games in Russia. In Sweden's game against England, I saw only one Swedish player receive and turn with outside of the foot - which achieved wrong footing the English defender . The same player used outside of the foot whilst dribbling too. I only saw one Swedish player use the outside of the foot for passing in close confines. If the outside of the foot is used in quick passing and moving sequences, there is a simultaneous fake, which wrongfoots opponents at the time of the pass. It doesn't mean use the outside of the foot all the time, but interspersed with side of the foot, and shoelace passing, it creates better and less predictable passing sequences which is harder to intercept. I also very rarely observed the Swedes pass in limited time and space. They lacked the technical qualities. They couldn't build up patiently through central midfield. Again the powerhouses, have players use the outside of the foot all the time. The plodders don't. For Croatia, players like Modric can pass over range with the outside of the foot too. England , when playing Sweden had a superb ball carrier and dribbler in Sterling. They also had two excellent ball carrying and dribbling wingers and a decent number 10 with similar qualities. All these player use a lot of outside of the foot in 1v1 evasion skills - well. The English CBs and DMs are also good passers and movers. They moved in triangles and diamonds to play out from the back. Who says what to whom and when has improved immeasurably for England in Ball Possession in the back half and central midfield areas of the pitch. England have developed successful international football practices under Holland and Southgate - instead of until recently playing direct long ball dross. England can also maintain posses under pressure in the back half of the pitch and slow the game down, much better than before. They use rhythm changes, like traditional powerhouses. Even plodders like us, have Rogic, Arzani, Mooy, Behich and Milligan who can perform rapid-fire passing in tight spaces. Whilst lauding our defensive performance against France, trying to stop them playing, and castigating Switzerland's against Brazil, they are a very rich country, who pour big money into football. It it is also their main sport. We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. There's one vitally important thing you have failed to grasp why their are less than a handful of nations who actually manage to have continual international success which is definitely a more recent phenomenon. The reason is these days their are only 5 leagues in the world capable of developing players to a standard strong enough to compete at the business end of tournaments on a regular basis. What does that mean? Basically what it means is the development of players is in the hands of foreign leagues, the best most leagues can achieve is to create a system where the best young talent is shipped off to a better league where the entire nation has to hope they reach their potential. Why do you think the South American nations are becoming more unsuccessful? Or why the Dutch are really starting to struggle internationally? Because in the past they could develop all their players locally, play in clubs together and to a standard good enough to win a world cup, now they need to ship their players all around the world, playing at different clubs with different philosophies. This means there'll be no continual success for any nations outside these countries and they just have to hope for essentially a golden generation capable of playing well together to have any chance of success. Another scenario that is good for players' development are the top divisions in Brazil and Argentina. They are as good the European big five. The Brazilian league has the most skill of all of them. The only problem is Brazil and Argentina don't need Aussie players. They have the best from all over South America. A further scenario that can work well is that some leagues I've denoted as mediocre in Europe often have a couple of powerhouse teams who play in Champ League and Europa League comps for at least 6 games, and more if they go further. Rogic has improved as an international player from playing with Celtic. Apart from when they play Rangers, the league is similar quality to the HAL with a worse style of football. However, Celtic usually get all of 6 qualifying games for the Champ League, and even more if they qualify against high quality competition. Ditto Ukraine, Russia, Holland, Portugal, Croatia, Belgium, Turkey, Greece, Serbia, Denmark, et al. They usually have a powerhouse or two augmented by imported players, including many Brazilian attacking payers, who play against tough opposition in Champ or Europa leagues. Even the Europa League has mid ranking teams from the big five - France, England, Spain, Germany and Italy. These teams are usually high quality opposition.
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Decentric
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Group: Awaiting Activation
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+x+x+x+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward Berger said that some years ago. We are improving in game sense, and have improved immeasurably since Berger made that comment. It is no coincidence BVM, Mark VB, et al, found the Socceroos easy to coach - better tactically coached players with better football education equals better game sense. If some of Rale's and Ron Smith's prodigies, Crino, Patikas, et al, played in the current Socceroos, they would lack the game sense to carry out sophisticated tactical plans. I think you're missing the point Decentric. It's not about game-sense, on the pitch, reading and understanding what is required IN THIS MATCH... It's about a national culture. It's about understanding what is required at a wider level. This is not directed at the non-football community, but at the football association level, down through coach education, to the coaches themselves, the clubs at all levels, etc. It's all about following a neat set of guidelines - and we're so busy following that neat set of guidelines that we lose track of the overall picture - which goes back to the other thread of the moment, the production of robots. Pass - pass - pass - but don't progress. All possession, no transition. Happy to stand still and look at the participation (possession) stats, rather than look up and see what we're actually doing with that participation. Are we getting more infrastructure? More teams? Longer seasons? More opportunity for more players? None of it - but hey, we've got the numbers, and we've got the ball, so everything will be just fine... The last points you make are cogent. I think you would find it difficult to find anyone arguing against them. Empirically, this World Cup has shown a lot of progress under BVM. We had a lot of ball going forwards too. There were more early balls played forwards. There were more instances of accelerated attacks, and the rhythm was sped up more frequently. We just didn't do much with the ball when we delivered it into the right places in the attacking third. We are a basket case in attacking interplay and scoring goals against world class opposition. We desperately need help - probably from overseas to rectify this facet of play to bring it into line with the rest of our game. For the first time we could do with some English coaching advice on converting goals from chances created, as well as from Brazil, Belgium, Croatia and France. Alternatively what you and others are telling me is this; We are one coach and two players away from succeeding at a World Cup. And that belief my fellow football fans is the problem. It isn't. Also, what is the definition of success at a WC? I think a team like Mexico is successful in that they always seem to get out of the group, but are knocked out in the last 16. Everything Benjamin has suggested to improve football in Oz, I agree with. Longer seasons, pro/rel 2nd Div, more pro teams for more kids to play youth football, etc. We currently lack depth - look at viable back ups for full back. ATM our biggest weakness is producing attacking players who are clinical around goal. A few years back, we had a dearth of wingers and particularly central midfielders. Another big problem is FFA are getting away with not appointing a senior FFA TD. Our curriculum isn't being refined and updated.
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City Sam
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xFor the delusional people on here, just compare the squads from 2006 and where they were playing to this years team. All the armchair experts like Decentric can sprout their crap opinions and make excuses, but if current gen was any good they would be playing at better clubs. Full Stop. Check Mate. 2006 Squad2018 Squad:
Armchair expert! LOL! I've had 14 years coaching experience on the pitch including two roles as TD - one at a NPL club. Teams are not comprised of cattle who reach a certain standard because they play at clubs playing in good leagues. It is a question of developing them into an effective team unit, otherwise Brazil would win every WC based on the quality of their players and which clubs they play at. The current Socceroos are far better equipped tactically and better educated. This enables them to play more effectively as a cohesive team unit, compared to the 2006 Socceroos and any generation before that. This is because they have a better grasp of structure, communication and tactics, having all been educated in a similar way - European powerhouse methodology extrapolated to Oz. Sorry, my mistake, your 14 years of Tasmanian state league experience makes you far better equipped to judge the ability of players to play in first division European leagues, than the international coaches over there. Grasshoppers is an excellent team and more Aussie kids should aspire to play for them as they will get much better tactical education there than in the EPL, La Liga, etc. Also how silly of me, why would we want to develop players like Brazil, pffft, they only made the quarters this year and have won it like, 5 times, whats that when compared to the tactically equipped and edumacated socceroos........ you are an idiot You've used some casuaristic reasoning to claim I've proffered this! I've never criticised Brazilian technical development. LOL! When in Switzerland I read a big article where they claim Roy Hodgson is the progenitor of their overhauled football system. They possibly have good liaison between the pro clubs and the grass roots, but they don't have a holistic national system. ATM apart from Shaquiri and one or two others, they are also a team of plodders. More rubbish, many excellent players in the squad currently and coming through. Shaqiri, Xhaka, Lichsteiner, Rodriguez, Embolo, Akanji and plenty other young players playing regularly now at many Bundesliga clubs from moves from the Swiss League. Even a technically excellent player in Frueler who plays for Atalanta can't get any minutes because they have a very good team. More factually correct statements from Decentric. Keep it coming In this WC the Swiss drew with Costa Rica - a very poor result, using Eurosnobs' criteria that any North American team is inherently inferior to any European team. They had a lucky, back to the wall, defend deep, partial press, draw against Brazil, where they were easily the worst team on the day - and any other. It was a game exemplifying a typical European plodder playing Reactive football against a veritable, technically brilliant powerhouse playing Proactive football. Some days they will nick a result - and they did. Beating Serbia 2-1 is a good result. Serbia play some decent football and have a decent football education system. Losing to Sweden, a veritable European plodder, is a shocking result. I didn't see the game to view the balance of play. Italy lost to Sweden, Germany and Netherlands failed to qualify above them. What does that say about those teams how they failed against the awful plodders, who by the way actually do play good technical football too. Switzerland in recent years have become a very good team, constantly making the knockouts and always put up a good fight. They nearly took down Argentina in 2014, defeated Spain in 2010 among plenty other good results. It is also hilarious how you are calling their performance against Brazil as lucky while lauding our performance against France when we showed even less intent. You are a hypocrite who has no information about any of these teams you keep talking about apart from 3rd hand information from a seminar you heard ages ago. You even mention yourself you don't watch the games, you clearly don't know any of the players or how these sides actually set up, yet you keep acting like you do. You also mentioned how Russia just play sit deep and hoof the ball, you'd also have realised if you watched their match against Croatia or any match apart from against Spain that they actually took the game on and played some very nice football. I don't profess to have seen all games in any comp. Nevertheless, I've seen many European Champs and ECQs, European WCQs, as well as games in Russia. In Sweden's game against England, I saw only one Swedish player receive and turn with outside of the foot - which achieved wrong footing the English defender . The same player used outside of the foot whilst dribbling too. I only saw one Swedish player use the outside of the foot for passing in close confines. If the outside of the foot is used in quick passing and moving sequences, there is a simultaneous fake, which wrongfoots opponents at the time of the pass. It doesn't mean use the outside of the foot all the time, but interspersed with side of the foot, and shoelace passing, it creates better and less predictable passing sequences which is harder to intercept. I also very rarely observed the Swedes pass in limited time and space. They lacked the technical qualities. They couldn't build up patiently through central midfield. Again the powerhouses, have players use the outside of the foot all the time. The plodders don't. For Croatia, players like Modric can pass over range with the outside of the foot too. England , when playing Sweden had a superb ball carrier and dribbler in Sterling. They also had two excellent ball carrying and dribbling wingers and a decent number 10 with similar qualities. All these player use a lot of outside of the foot in 1v1 evasion skills - well. The English CBs and DMs are also good passers and movers. They moved in triangles and diamonds to play out from the back. Who says what to whom and when has improved immeasurably for England in Ball Possession in the back half and central midfield areas of the pitch. England have developed successful international football practices under Holland and Southgate - instead of until recently playing direct long ball dross. England can also maintain posses under pressure in the back half of the pitch and slow the game down, much better than before. They use rhythm changes, like traditional powerhouses. Even plodders like us, have Rogic, Arzani, Mooy, Behich and Milligan who can perform rapid-fire passing in tight spaces. Whilst lauding our defensive performance against France, trying to stop them playing, and castigating Switzerland's against Brazil, they are a very rich country, who pour big money into football. It it is also their main sport. We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. There's one vitally important thing you have failed to grasp why their are less than a handful of nations who actually manage to have continual international success which is definitely a more recent phenomenon. The reason is these days their are only 5 leagues in the world capable of developing players to a standard strong enough to compete at the business end of tournaments on a regular basis. What does that mean? Basically what it means is the development of players is in the hands of foreign leagues, the best most leagues can achieve is to create a system where the best young talent is shipped off to a better league where the entire nation has to hope they reach their potential. Why do you think the South American nations are becoming more unsuccessful? Or why the Dutch are really starting to struggle internationally? Because in the past they could develop all their players locally, play in clubs together and to a standard good enough to win a world cup, now they need to ship their players all around the world, playing at different clubs with different philosophies. This means there'll be no continual success for any nations outside these countries and they just have to hope for essentially a golden generation capable of playing well together to have any chance of success. Another scenario that is good for players' development are the top divisions in Brazil and Argentina. They are as good the European big five. The Brazilian league has the most skill of all of them. The only problem is Brazil and Argentina don't need Aussie players. They have the best from all over South America. A further scenario that can work well is that some leagues I've denoted as mediocre in Europe often have a couple of powerhouse teams who play in Champ League and Europa League comps for at least 6 games, and more if they go further. Rogic has improved as an international player from playing with Celtic. Apart from when they play Rangers, the league is similar quality to the HAL with a worse style of football. However, Celtic usually get all of 6 qualifying games for the Champ League, and even more if they qualify against high quality competition. Ditto Ukraine, Russia, Holland, Portugal, Croatia, Belgium, Turkey, Greece, Serbia, Denmark, et al. They usually have a powerhouse or two augmented by imported players, including many Brazilian attacking payers, who play against tough opposition in Champ or Europa leagues. Even the Europa League has mid ranking teams from the big five - France, England, Spain, Germany and Italy. These teams are usually high quality opposition. Even the Brazil and Argentinian league isn't as strong as it once was. All their top players are out of the country by the time they are 18 if not younger by just joining an academy of Barcelona or something. Due to this what i mentioned in the previous post about struggling to play together and certain players not developing as they should has weakened South America. Your last sentence just proves my point, those are the 5 richest leagues in the world and are the only ones with enough quality to prepare players for the business end of major tournaments. Because they just leech every bit of talent from all other leagues in the world, this benefits these 5 leagues but it takes the development out of our countries hand and all the others. Every country, including Brazil, Argentina, Portugal no longer control how their players develop once they leave their league. Which they must if they want to actually compete in a league strong enough to improve their game. So what's the moral of the story? To have genuine success at world cups requires a few major things now. First of which having a strong link to one of these leagues where our players will be picked up and given a proper chance, secondly we need more younger players in our league given a chance so they have the best chance to actually turn into a world class players and lastly we need a bit of luck. We need the luck that we can actually create another golden generation who are actually capable of playing well together which is incredibly difficult when most likely they'll be playing in different leagues and clubs. This is the modern football world now, there will be no sustained success when there is such a disparity in the quality of leagues. So you can talk all you want about the NC but quite frankly it isn't completely relevant to us and we need to tweak it so our younger players can actually make an impact in europe immediately.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Other than Brazil and a fair distance behind Belgium, I haven't seen teams which are *that* far ahead of us.
The game outcome now turns on maximizing opportunity, and to do that you need players who can finish.
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Arthur
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+xDecentric "We are also a plodding country, aspiring not to be one. There is an attempt to emulate powerhouses through improved training ground methodology and coach education. The fact we dictated terms more than our opponents, Peru and Denmark, where football is also the main sport, is testament to something working well in Oz. " We are plodders because generally speaking we are FOOTBALL DUMB. Berger said it when we he delivered Curriculum version 2. We have weak Football Culture. SAP isn't going to fix it. The NC of itself isn't going to fix it. The A-league isn't going to fix it. We have our strategies wrong. Only by; Football Infrastructure invest, new and old Affordable quality coaching education Strong Football Clubs at all levels Will we develop the FOOTBALL CULTURE to move forward Berger said that some years ago. We are improving in game sense, and have improved immeasurably since Berger made that comment. It is no coincidence BVM, Mark VB, et al, found the Socceroos easy to coach - better tactically coached players with better football education equals better game sense. If some of Rale's and Ron Smith's prodigies, Crino, Patikas, et al, played in the current Socceroos, they would lack the game sense to carry out sophisticated tactical plans. I think you're missing the point Decentric. It's not about game-sense, on the pitch, reading and understanding what is required IN THIS MATCH... It's about a national culture. It's about understanding what is required at a wider level. This is not directed at the non-football community, but at the football association level, down through coach education, to the coaches themselves, the clubs at all levels, etc. It's all about following a neat set of guidelines - and we're so busy following that neat set of guidelines that we lose track of the overall picture - which goes back to the other thread of the moment, the production of robots. Pass - pass - pass - but don't progress. All possession, no transition. Happy to stand still and look at the participation (possession) stats, rather than look up and see what we're actually doing with that participation. Are we getting more infrastructure? More teams? Longer seasons? More opportunity for more players? None of it - but hey, we've got the numbers, and we've got the ball, so everything will be just fine... The last points you make are cogent. I think you would find it difficult to find anyone arguing against them. Empirically, this World Cup has shown a lot of progress under BVM. We had a lot of ball going forwards too. There were more early balls played forwards. There were more instances of accelerated attacks, and the rhythm was sped up more frequently. We just didn't do much with the ball when we delivered it into the right places in the attacking third. We are a basket case in attacking interplay and scoring goals against world class opposition. We desperately need help - probably from overseas to rectify this facet of play to bring it into line with the rest of our game. For the first time we could do with some English coaching advice on converting goals from chances created, as well as from Brazil, Belgium, Croatia and France. Alternatively what you and others are telling me is this; We are one coach and two players away from succeeding at a World Cup. And that belief my fellow football fans is the problem. It isn't. Also, what is the definition of success at a WC? I think a team like Mexico is successful in that they always seem to get out of the group, but are knocked out in the last 16. Everything Benjamin has suggested to improve football in Oz, I agree with. Longer seasons, pro/rel 2nd Div, more pro teams for more kids to play youth football, etc. We currently lack depth - look at viable back ups for full back. ATM our biggest weakness is producing attacking players who are clinical around goal. A few years back, we had a dearth of wingers and particularly central midfielders. Another big problem is FFA are getting away with not appointing a senior FFA TD. Our curriculum isn't being refined and updated. The changes Benjamin has suggested centre on one core strategy: Football Culture which leads to acceptance of the Global Football Standards. All those changes have been resisted and continue to be resisted for lack of strong Football Culture hence we are debating the way forward, so we miss the point. Key Strategies: Infrastructure Affordable quality coach education Strong Clubs Then let the FFA stand out of the way and focus on its core business, so we can find our level.
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socceroo_06
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+xOther than Brazil and a fair distance behind Belgium, I haven't seen teams which are *that* far ahead of us. The game outcome now turns on maximizing opportunity, and to do that you need players who can finish. Not only finish, but finish in big games against high quality opposition. Cahill, Kewell & Aloisi were able to do it in the GG era. Juric, Kruse, Leckie, Rogic & Mooy all struggle against higher quality opposition.
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phutbol
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+x+xYeah another rant from the good ol days. I don't agree with him that Peru outsmarted us , they just capitalised on their chances better than us otherwise we pretty much dominated them. I don't know what match he was watching They definitely outsmarted us. They just sat back and took it easy, and then exploited the space in behind when our defence got stretched. We did not "dominate" by any means. They let us have the ball and were always very comfortable. It was a pretty miserable game for Australia actually. We didn't even get close. No sure what game you were watching. We comprehensively outplayed them but have no end product. Thats not being outsmarted. The one thing they did well was finish one chance and get 2 lucky deflections.
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