The Australian Politics thread: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese


The Australian Politics thread: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese

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marconi101
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rusty - 14 Oct 2018 12:03 AM
It really sounds like Marconi101 is discriminating against robstazzz because of his religious beliefs. Like Marconi101 is the one full of wisdom and knowledge and Robstazzz is some archaic trogladyte imbecile who has been totally brainwashed, and Marconi101 is the sage who will show Robstazz the error his ways and guide him to the truth.

I consider this a form of intellectual discrimination, where one supposes they are intellectually better than the other, and want to impose restrictions on how someone can make decisions because their stupidity is so dibiltitating they think they are actually doing them , and society a favour.

(1) I'm not discriminating, he can believe whatever he likes. I do believe religion is form of brainwashing, built off the fear of death and the unknown, providing security and established group/cultural meaning. It's a very powerful phenomenon. Just to argue that someone is wrong is not not to imply superiority, it's to imply clarity and consistency. 

(2) If you consider that discrimination, then you're made of glass. I do not want to impose restrictions on others on how to think, I want people to realise they can't justify imposing restrictions on others on the basis of disproven, religious fallacies. 

He was a man of specific quirks. He believed that all meals should be earned through physical effort. He also contended, zealously like a drunk with a political point, that the third dimension would not be possible if it werent for the existence of water.

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marconi101 - 14 Oct 2018 8:31 PM

robstazzz - 13 Oct 2018 9:52 PM

(2) What a convenient way to worm yourself out of the argument. How did I go off-topic? Please at least try to play the argument

(3) If God is the supposed judge, jury and moral standard then why doesn't he act against child molestation? Clearly if he's God and if he's just, he would do something. Yet nothing happens. That implies that a) he's complicit, b) doesn't give a shit or c) doesn't exist. It doesn't matter if your church doesn't permit it (kudos to them, a real moral leap to be sure). The problem is that it still occurs, without divine intervention; if ever there were a time it would be then. 


Seriously you make me laugh, why doesn't God stop it lol fuck me dead if you know nothing about religion then I suggest you don't comment on it. 
Clearly from your pathetic posts where you don't even understand what judgment day in Christianity is about.
You simply hate religion, regardless of which group. Yet you can't even admit even behind a computer that you hate religion, and if you had the power to rule the world, then 100% you would close down all churches and ban the teaching of Christianity. 
Only because you're a nice peaceful loving guy who respects everyone regardless of their beliefs and only acts in this way because you're accepting of everyone. 
Anyways as I said no point with you, because you simply go off topic and can't even understand how it's not a big deal for religious schools to basically be just that, and stick to what they believe in. 
If you had any respect you'd understand that if you're gay there's a shit load of schools you can teach in, and if your child is gay then again there's a shit load of schools for them to attend, and on top of that with half a fucking brain you wouldn't even want to send your kid to a religious school, so with that in mind your opinion is crystal clear. You don't agree with religion, you also hate everything to do with it, and what's worse is you don't want others to have the opportunity to believe in their religion the way they should, because Mr Smart knows better. 



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I just watched Simon Birmingham on the ABC rabbit on about respecting freedom of religious beliefs in reply as to whether a religious school should be able to sack a teacher for being gay.

I wonder how far respecting of religious beliefs go?  Is female genial mutilation OK because its part of the belief system of some religions?

Perhaps Rob or Rusty could enlighten me.


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Munrubenmuz - 14 Oct 2018 11:42 PM
I just watched Simon Birmingham on the ABC rabbit on about respecting freedom of religious beliefs in reply as to whether a religious school should be able to sack a teacher for being gay.

I wonder how far respecting of religious beliefs go?  Is female genial mutilation OK because its part of the belief system of some religions?

Perhaps Rob or Rusty could enlighten me.

Perhaps you'd enlighten me on what genial mutilation has to do with Christianity.
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marconi101 - 14 Oct 2018 8:36 PM
rusty - 14 Oct 2018 12:03 AM

(1) I'm not discriminating, he can believe whatever he likes. I do believe religion is form of brainwashing, built off the fear of death and the unknown, providing security and established group/cultural meaning. It's a very powerful phenomenon. Just to argue that someone is wrong is not not to imply superiority, it's to imply clarity and consistency. 

(2) If you consider that discrimination, then you're made of glass. I do not want to impose restrictions on others on how to think, I want people to realise they can't justify imposing restrictions on others on the basis of disproven, religious fallacies. 

 LOL no actually I can't because you believe what I believe in is wrong and shouldn't be allowed to get preached because of a lack of evidence you talk about. So no grow some fucking balls and stand by your decision just like I stand by mine. 
You do have a problem with Christianity, and clearly don't think it should have the freedom to preach.
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robstazzz - 14 Oct 2018 11:46 PM
Munrubenmuz - 14 Oct 2018 11:42 PM

Perhaps you'd enlighten me on what genial mutilation has to do with Christianity.

Nothing.  But nice dodge of an uncomfortable question.

The question is how far do you go to respect religious beliefs?

You think your religion's beliefs should be respected and therefore you should be able to discriminate.  What about other religions? Are they afforded the same concessions?


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Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 7:10 AM
robstazzz - 14 Oct 2018 11:46 PM

Nothing.  But nice dodge of an uncomfortable question.

The question is how far do you go to respect religious beliefs?

You think your religion's beliefs should be respected and therefore you should be able to discriminate.  What about other religions? Are they afforded the same concessions?

No there was no dodge at all, I honestly didn't understand what that's got to do with what I've said, but I can easily answer your question. 
In my opinion I believe that it is wrong, however it doesn't affect me or my kids one bit. I'm Christian, therefore the laws of another religion won't affect me, because I'm not a dumb fuck that would take my kids to a Islamic or Jewish school, and then argue with them because they didn't agree with me, and cry out like a whinging bitch screaming out discrimination. 
So although I think it's wrong I'm a humble person who understands that it's wrong in my eyes but right in the eyes of a Jew and a Muslim, so who the fuck am I, and what right do I have to offend them by forcing them to change a rule?
Do I think it's wrong? Yes, will I try and force them to change? No I won't because that's their choice, and their choice doesn't affect me one bit.
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robstazzz - 15 Oct 2018 7:55 AM
Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 7:10 AM
robstazzz - 14 Oct 2018 11:46 PM

Nothing.  But nice dodge of an uncomfortable question.

The question is how far do you go to respect religious beliefs?

You think your religion's beliefs should be respected and therefore you should be able to discriminate.  What about other religions? Are they afforded the same concessions?

No there was no dodge at all, I honestly didn't understand what that's got to do with what I've said, but I can easily answer your question. 
In my opinion I believe that it is wrong, however it doesn't affect me or my kids one bit. I'm Christian, therefore the laws of another religion won't affect me, because I'm not a dumb fuck that would take my kids to a Islamic or Jewish school, and then argue with them because they didn't agree with me, and cry out like a whinging bitch screaming out discrimination. 
So although I think it's wrong I'm a humble person who understands that it's wrong in my eyes but right in the eyes of a Jew and a Muslim, so who the fuck am I, and what right do I have to offend them by forcing them to change a rule?
Do I think it's wrong? Yes, will I try and force them to change? No I won't because that's their choice, and their choice doesn't affect me one bit.

So if I’m reading that correctly, and I am paraphrasing what you’ve written, you don’t care what happens to other people provided it doesn’t affect you.

Is that right?

And by extension the rights of those peoples affected, despite them having no choice in the matter, should not protected or enforced?


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Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 9:33 AM
robstazzz - 15 Oct 2018 7:55 AM

So if I’m reading that correctly, and I am paraphrasing what you’ve written, you don’t care what happens to other people provided it doesn’t affect you.

Is that right?

And by extension the rights of those peoples affected, despite them having no choice in the matter, should not protected or enforced?

No because I don't even know about it, in all honesty I haven't even looked into it to know exactly what you're talking about. I can't be fucked googling because it isn't something that concerns me for one, and two it has nothing to do with a gay teacher being allowed to teach at a religious school. If a gay teacher or child is refused entry into a religous school it is no big deal, no one is being harmed.
I still can't work out how you or any other athiest out there would actually want to send your kids to one of these schools, it's beyond a fucking joke why anyone with half a brain would push for something like this. 
Even with gay marriage as an example. you can now get married outside the church if you are gay or lesbian. Some people will then whinge why can't we get married in a church? this is discrimination ect ect. The better question is why the fuck would you want to get married in a church if you don't believe in religion? and if you are christian and you are gay well it is pretty easy to work out why it can't be done. 
That's why when people push for change, even in situations where it has zero affect on them or their families then I'm sorry but you're ignorant, arrogant, and not only believe you're right on the matter, but even worse forcefully try and dictate that the other person is wrong and therefore shouldn't be allowed to think in that way.
How the fuck isn't that wrong?
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Munrubenmuz - 14 Oct 2018 11:42 PM
I just watched Simon Birmingham on the ABC rabbit on about respecting freedom of religious beliefs in reply as to whether a religious school should be able to sack a teacher for being gay.

I wonder how far respecting of religious beliefs go?  Is female genial mutilation OK because its part of the belief system of some religions?

Perhaps Rob or Rusty could enlighten me.

Tough one, i'm all for freedom and what not but you'd think if you're a teacher that's gay, applying to teach at a religious school is like getting shitfaced in public in Saudi Arabia and then being upset when you get arrested. 

I for one accept religious institutions having dogma, they're religions, it's their thing but I don't know how to answer the other part about female genital mutilation. 

To add to this, a thing I've seen recently is Freemasons lodges being male only. There was an article published by the BBC about transgender masons who become females or females becoming men and asking to join. Seems to have split the fraternity right down the middle on whether its acceptable or not. 

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Munrubenmuz - 14 Oct 2018 11:42 PM
I just watched Simon Birmingham on the ABC rabbit on about respecting freedom of religious beliefs in reply as to whether a religious school should be able to sack a teacher for being gay.

I wonder how far respecting of religious beliefs go?  Is female genial mutilation OK because its part of the belief system of some religions?

Perhaps Rob or Rusty could enlighten me.

The state has a responsibility to protect children from physical violence and injury, as children cannot decide for themselves.  Genital mutilation constitutes physical violence and injury.  As for adults, if they want to mutilate themselves go right ahead.
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rusty - 15 Oct 2018 10:51 AM
Munrubenmuz - 14 Oct 2018 11:42 PM

The state has a responsibility to protect children from physical violence and injury, as children cannot decide for themselves.  Genital mutilation constitutes physical violence and injury.  As for adults, if they want to mutilate themselves go right ahead.

I eagerly await the reply to this. Surely you can't argue with that answer Mun.
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That’s a total non-sequiter Rusty.

The question was asking about your principle of respecting the customs of religions because they supposedly have some intrinsic right to respected. You argued that it’s ok to discriminate against gay people because it’s a religious belief, but you won’t apply this logic to other fucked up religious beliefs. So that leads me to believe it’s not about religion but more about hating gay people.

Also lmao at this cultural relativism - “who am I to judge these fucked up practises?” What a joke
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Surely when an institution is acting in a role as important as education of young people they should have certain standards in regards to equality to adhere to?


(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE

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rusty - 15 Oct 2018 10:51 AM
Munrubenmuz - 14 Oct 2018 11:42 PM

The state has a responsibility to protect children from physical violence and injury, as children cannot decide for themselves.  Genital mutilation constitutes physical violence and injury.  As for adults, if they want to mutilate themselves go right ahead.

Explain to me then how male circumcision isn't banned then.  You know, seeing as the state has a responsibility to protect children from physical violence and injury.

What's that? It's a procedure steeped in religious history.

Oh.  Ok then.


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And if they can't meet those standards due to their beliefs, perhaps they shouldn't be educating our future generations.

And that goes for all religions. The left argument in this debate will milk Christianity for all it's worth but constantly turn a blind eye to Islam due to it not being fashionable enough to criticize.

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robstazzz - 15 Oct 2018 10:43 AM
Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 9:33 AM

No because I don't even know about it, in all honesty I haven't even looked into it to know exactly what you're talking about. I can't be fucked googling because it isn't something that concerns me for one, and two it has nothing to do with a gay teacher being allowed to teach at a religious school. If a gay teacher or child is refused entry into a religous school it is no big deal, no one is being harmed.
I still can't work out how you or any other athiest out there would actually want to send your kids to one of these schools, it's beyond a fucking joke why anyone with half a brain would push for something like this. 
Even with gay marriage as an example. you can now get married outside the church if you are gay or lesbian. Some people will then whinge why can't we get married in a church? this is discrimination ect ect. The better question is why the fuck would you want to get married in a church if you don't believe in religion? and if you are christian and you are gay well it is pretty easy to work out why it can't be done. 
That's why when people push for change, even in situations where it has zero affect on them or their families then I'm sorry but you're ignorant, arrogant, and not only believe you're right on the matter, but even worse forcefully try and dictate that the other person is wrong and therefore shouldn't be allowed to think in that way.
How the fuck isn't that wrong?

How convenient for you that you can choose when to be wilfully ignorant and when to be informed.

Marvellous.

You're arguments are ridiculous.  Based on your logic above no one should have ever agitated for the freeing of slaves because it didn't affect them or their families.

Some things degrade us as humans you know.

I'm not surprised though.  Religious types tend not to do any deeper thinking as they've already had to have to suspend the logic part of their brains in matters of rationality.


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Edited
7 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 12:27 PM
rusty - 15 Oct 2018 10:51 AM

Explain to me then how male circumcision isn't banned then.  You know, seeing as the state has a responsibility to protect children from physical violence and injury.

What's that? It's a procedure steeped in religious history.

Oh.  Ok then.

Youre not equating male circumcision with female genital mutilation are you ?




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rusty - 15 Oct 2018 12:34 PM
Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 12:27 PM

Youre not equating male circumcision with female genital mutilation are you ?




No.  But I'd like you to explain how one type of violence is OK and another is not.  (Notwithstanding one is far less severe than the other.)


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Edited
7 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 12:38 PM
rusty - 15 Oct 2018 12:34 PM

No.  

Even worse he's now comparing what happened to slaves based off nothing to do with religion to a school not wanting a gay teacher to teach in their school lol. Wow.
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robstazzz - 14 Oct 2018 11:50 PM
marconi101 - 14 Oct 2018 8:36 PM

 LOL no actually I can't because you believe what I believe in is wrong and shouldn't be allowed to get preached because of a lack of evidence you talk about. So no grow some fucking balls and stand by your decision just like I stand by mine. 
You do have a problem with Christianity, and clearly don't think it should have the freedom to preach.

Did you not read the second paragraph I wrote? To make things obviously clear, I'm an atheist. I do believe religious people have been hoodwinked but they have all the right to believe in their religion, so long as it doesn't stop anyone else from believing or acting in whatever way they want. Is that crystal fucking clear or will you will continue moving the goalposts and repeating the same convenient argument? 

He was a man of specific quirks. He believed that all meals should be earned through physical effort. He also contended, zealously like a drunk with a political point, that the third dimension would not be possible if it werent for the existence of water.

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Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 12:32 PM
robstazzz - 15 Oct 2018 10:43 AM

How convenient for you that you can choose when to be wilfully ignorant and when to be informed.

Marvellous.

You're arguments are ridiculous.  Based on your logic above no one should have ever agitated for the freeing of slaves because it didn't affect them or their families.

Some things degrade us as humans you know.

I'm not surprised though.  Religious types tend not to do any deeper thinking as they've already had to have to suspend disbelief in matters of rationality.

 I'm ignorant because I haven't studied and read into what happens in the Jewish and Islamic religion?
Maybe I simply haven't had the time to do so but yeh I'm ignorant. 
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robstazzz - 15 Oct 2018 12:39 PM
Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 12:38 PM

Even worse he's now comparing what happened to slaves based off nothing to do with religion to a school not wanting a gay teacher to teach in their school lol. Wow.

As 433 said and I thank him for pointing it out better than I could have, it's the principle we're arguing here.  A principle that you and Rusty seem keen to not answer.

Just how far are you willing to go to respect religious beliefs?

And Sydneyfc I'm happy to put the boot into Islam.  Whatever Christianity is up to Islam is 100 times worse.




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7 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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robstazzz - 15 Oct 2018 12:39 PM
Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 12:38 PM

Even worse he's now comparing what happened to slaves based off nothing to do with religion to a school not wanting a gay teacher to teach in their school lol. Wow.

That's not a rebuttal, you're simply denigrating the argument because you disagree with it. How very elitist of you. 

He was a man of specific quirks. He believed that all meals should be earned through physical effort. He also contended, zealously like a drunk with a political point, that the third dimension would not be possible if it werent for the existence of water.

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marconi101 - 15 Oct 2018 12:41 PM
robstazzz - 14 Oct 2018 11:50 PM

Did you not read the second paragraph I wrote? To make things obviously clear, I'm an atheist. I do believe religious people have been hoodwinked but they have all the right to believe in their religion, so long as it doesn't stop anyone else from believing or acting in whatever way they want. Is that crystal fucking clear or will you will continue moving the goalposts and repeating the same convenient argument? 

So in other words I'm allowed to believe in my religion and what they preach, BUT I can't send them to a school that teaches them the same values as I do because YOU have put a stop to them being legally allowed to teach my kids what I believe. 
Yeh you've made it perfectly clear. I'm not allowed to teach my kids what I believe is right and the school I send them to hasn't got the right to teach them what we believe in.
So yeh as an athiest you don't only want to teach your kids what's right, you want to go further and stop teach my kids that what I've taught them is bullshit and unacceptable. 
But don't worry you're not ignorant, you're just a great human being trying to make this world a better place by forcing people into corners and forcing them to believe your way is the right way. 


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robstazzz - 15 Oct 2018 12:42 PM
Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 12:32 PM

 I'm ignorant because I haven't studied and read into what happens in the Jewish and Islamic religion?
Maybe I simply haven't had the time to do so but yeh I'm ignorant. 

Surely you must have heard of the abolition movement in the 1800's in the US?  Based on your arguments above you must think that peoples had no right to agitate for the freeing of slaves because as you said ...... 

"even in situations where it has zero affect on them or their families then I'm sorry but you're ignorant, arrogant, and not only believe you're right on the matter, but even worse forcefully try and dictate that the other person is wrong and therefore shouldn't be allowed to think in that way.

How the fuck isn't that wrong?"





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Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 12:44 PM
robstazzz - 15 Oct 2018 12:39 PM

As 433 said and I thank him for pointing it out better than I could have, it's the principle we're arguing here.  A principle that you and Rusty seem keen to not answer.

Just how far are you willing to go to respect religious beliefs?

And Marconi I'm happy to put the boot into Islam.  Whatever Christianity is up to Islam is 100 times worse.


How many times does the question need to be answered?
A school not wanting a gay teacher to teach is fine, that's what they believe in. It's not like they're saying a gay teacher is to be put to death. 
And again about drawing the line on other religions I haven't read into them to know what it preaches, however obviously if it preaches to kill or physically injure someone then that's wrong because now it's become physical. 
But again I'm talking about the Christian schools here or say a church for instance not wanting to marry a gay or lesbian couple. That won't cause physical pain when there are so many other options. 
Now if for other religions there is no other option then that's another matter totally unrelated to this matter. 
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BTW Rob and Rusty I have no problem at a religious school if they want to say 'us Calathumpians believe in XYZ' or 'under our church we believe only a man and woman should be married'. 

Fine by me provided they're explicitly saying that those are the beliefs of that religion.

No problem at all.





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robstazzz - 15 Oct 2018 12:55 PM
Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 12:44 PM

How many times does the question need to be answered?
A school not wanting a gay teacher to teach is fine, that's what they believe in. It's not like they're saying a gay teacher is to be put to death. 
And again about drawing the line on other religions I haven't read into them to know what it preaches, however obviously if it preaches to kill or physically injure someone then that's wrong because now it's become physical. 
But again I'm talking about the Christian schools here or say a church for instance not wanting to marry a gay or lesbian couple. That won't cause physical pain when there are so many other options. 
Now if for other religions there is no other option then that's another matter totally unrelated to this matter. 

Let me dumb it right down for you.

Should all religious beliefs be respected or just some?  





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Munrubenmuz - 15 Oct 2018 12:49 PM
robstazzz - 15 Oct 2018 12:42 PM

Surely you must have heard of the abolition movement in the 1800's in the US?  Based on your arguments above you must think that peoples had no right to agitate for the freeing of slaves because as you said ...... 

"even in situations where it has zero affect on them or their families then I'm sorry but you're ignorant, arrogant, and not only believe you're right on the matter, but even worse forcefully try and dictate that the other person is wrong and therefore shouldn't be allowed to think in that way.

How the fuck isn't that wrong?"



LOL Muz you're talking about slaves, were you aware of this?
It's like saying I'm of the opinion that if Indonesia attacked and killed Australians in Perth then considering I live in NSW I don't believe we should go to war with Indonesia and help Perth people getting bombed because it doesn't affect me lol. 
You're talking about people being killed, regardless of that affecting me and my family it's obviously wrong and something needs to be done. 
I'm simply talking about a fucking school saying sorry mate, you think this religion is bullshit therefore go teach somewhere else. And then you being up things like slaves lol really mate you're being extremely silly in your argument. 
Just stick to the topic and get back on the track.
GO


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