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Steveswr1 - 27 Nov 2018 7:45 AM
Zef - 27 Nov 2018 7:30 AM

Marki and others reckon Bellamy could grab any park footballer and make him a superstar...they gave up on Kasiano..enough said

Kasiano looked to have played better in Dogs colours than Storm because we persisted with him longer....

The key difference here is that some clubs (the ones closer to the top and closer to a premiership) give up on players much sooner than us.

We seem to give them 5 years to return to form. Its what differentiates us from the top clubs.

We seem hell bent in getting rid of star players wanting more money yet are quite willing to keep flogging dead horses on overpaid money


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dman2018 - 27 Nov 2018 10:06 AM
Klem..
"I am putting what I believe is my family's best interests ahead of anything else... In business things happen"...
I might be able to get a job with the terrorcrap with that style of selective editing...

That's the part where I believe the NRL has failed the game miserably.....

The guy is openly admitting he has broken contract for more money. And instead of the NRL locking him out of the game for 2 years while the Knights pay him, they allow it and register his contract.
Disgrace from both him and the NRL

I feel less animosity to SBW who at least was kicked out of the league for the years his contract with us would have stood.

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dman2018 - 27 Nov 2018 10:26 AM
Marki - 26 Nov 2018 4:23 PM

Why would Wally fldo the Broncs that favour?...
And I'm sure Lachy's manager (and the rest) are aware of the incentives the broncs via the thoroughbreds can offer...


There's no reason at all to think Wally has any influence over what Lachlan does, He's said himself that Wally is just Uncle Wal, he hasn't played any great part in his career to date, hasn't been his adviser or mentor or any such thing - he's just Uncle Wal. Someone he sees at Christmas, weddings and funerals

And anyway, if Wal did have any influence of Lachy (which there's no evidence of at all) do you really think Wal would be trying to steer him to The Broncs? There's no love lost between Wal and The Broncs, none at all.
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dman2018 - 27 Nov 2018 10:26 AM
Marki - 26 Nov 2018 4:23 PM

Why would Wally fldo the Broncs that favour?...
And I'm sure Lachy's manager (and the rest) are aware of the incentives the broncs via the thoroughbreds can offer...


With Seibold moving there, whatever trust there was with Kodi Nikorima and Milford in the halves, Seibold will start from a clean slate.

If the incumbents don't play in a way that he likes, he will look to recruit new guys. His preference will obviously be to get A Reynolds who has a very consistent game. A game you can develop a team around. Kodi and MILF are too hit and cold. 
If Lewis has another great year, you can bet your bottom dollar the whispers will start. 
And then it will come down to what we offer vs what they offer.

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Marki - 27 Nov 2018 11:54 AM
dman2018 - 27 Nov 2018 10:06 AM

That's the part where I believe the NRL has failed the game miserably.....

The guy is openly admitting he has broken contract for more money. And instead of the NRL locking him out of the game for 2 years while the Knights pay him, they allow it and register his contract.
Disgrace from both him and the NRL

I feel less animosity to SBW who at least was kicked out of the league for the years his contract with us would have stood.

Marki a contract is not a certificate of ownership. It's an agreement between parties that can be amended, extended or terminated at any moment by the agreement of said parties.

Which has been done, to the agreement of all concerned parties.

The NRL has no place in it, none at all.
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hounddog - 27 Nov 2018 11:32 AM
What I'm looking for in 2019 is evidence of a reset, that Pay is working toward a new and different playing style.

Football is a simple game, we have good depth in 2019 squad with a possibility for some young guys to step up.
Overall the pack has better depth than compared to 2018, but might have a slight loss of quality with Klem going.
In the halves we have Foran, Lewis, Cogger, and Wakeham.
And we have Meaney as a potential candidate for fullback.
Depending on how the young guys step up and how many games Foran plays, this might be the best spine for some time.
Our development squad players look good to me, so we have a fairly capable 34 man squad, with good options in most positions, perhaps missing a bit of experience and quality.

So I want to see signings of improvement, that we seem to be working toward and plan and a new playing style and that we have recruited the right players, my sense is that if we get all that, we might be a bit of a surprise packet in 2019.

If I had to sum up 2018, particularly the first half of the season, the team lacked quality, decision making and execution, at critical times, and we found a way to lose. That was mainly the halves, and the emergence of Lewis late in the season, fixed a lot of that.

Anyway, "Bring On The Madness".

Stability and consistency in the spine positions is key.
Once Foran was ruled out for the season, we accepted it and played better.
This might come across badly, but MBYE was a cancer in our team. We often relied on him too much but he wasn't good enough to handle that role and it crucified us - constantly.

The way the reggies team played is much much better than how first team played. Forward did their job getting to the 20m opposition line but then played a secondary role inside it. Our first grade squad did the opposite for the last 5 years. Too much emphasis on forwards and not enough skill and trust in the backs. 

The emergence of Lewis, Smith and even Holland changed all that. It offered far more balance in attack especially in the opposition 20m. 

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dman2018 - 27 Nov 2018 10:23 AM
I'm really excited... Fresh squad for the most part, and as Zef said plenty aggression in the pack... Not much was said of it last year, but we completely lost our bite with JGs leaving...
Much hinges on Forans fitness or lack of this year, I hope he can get thru the season, cos he gives us the greatest likelihood of finals.. If not I hope his fitness fails fast and we can settle quickly who will be The Prince's halves partner.

We lost our bight once James Graham was neutered and made captain. Totally changed his aggression and lost his lions mane. Confirmed for me then that Des isn't the scientist he was made out to be. 
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Zef - 27 Nov 2018 12:04 PM
Marki - 27 Nov 2018 11:54 AM

Marki a contract is not a certificate of ownership. It's an agreement between parties that can be amended, extended or terminated at any moment by the agreement of said parties.

Which has been done, to the agreement of all concerned parties.

The NRL has no place in it, none at all.

Wrong.
A contract is between player and club and up to thr NRL to decide if they register it or not.
The NRL had a moral and integrity obligation when they chose to register Phlegms Knights contract.

Just like they stood their ground with Brett Stewart, Todd Carney, SBW, Barba and nearly that of Matt Lodge they had an opportunity to reject registering Phlegms contract on grounds of monetary gain.

It's obvious the NRL doesn't care if one team is disadvantaged at the expense of another. Hypocrisy is rife.
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Marki - 27 Nov 2018 12:06 PM
hounddog - 27 Nov 2018 11:32 AM

Stability and consistency in the spine positions is key.
Once Foran was ruled out for the season, we accepted it and played better.
This might come across badly, but MBYE was a cancer in our team. We often relied on him too much but he wasn't good enough to handle that role and it crucified us - constantly.

The way the reggies team played is much much better than how first team played. Forward did their job getting to the 20m opposition line but then played a secondary role inside it. Our first grade squad did the opposite for the last 5 years. Too much emphasis on forwards and not enough skill and trust in the backs. 

The emergence of Lewis, Smith and even Holland changed all that. It offered far more balance in attack especially in the opposition 20m. 

I guess we will start with Lewis and Foran in the halves, in the event on an injury / suspension Cogger is next man in.

Stability is important, but want is more important is intent, Lichaa cops plenty of criticism, but the 9 role is easier when halves demand the ball, expect the ball, and know what to do with the ball. The everyone start watching the halves and no one watches the 9.

Lichaa still have to do his job, which is mostly give the halves a good pass when they demand it and if you don;t give them the ball, do something good with it.

All 4 our our halves have intent, they will want the ball.

Getting repeat sets  is also important Lewis showed something there.

Mbye is a nice guy and a reasonably talented player, I now see him as a fullback or centre.
We mostly played him in the wrong positions, at fullback he is good, but I don't think elite.
But the main problem was, we were paying him far too much.  


Edited
7 Years Ago by hounddog
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Ofahiki and Renouf T each bring a different quality to the team.... Ofa is just a beast in the middle, very good post contact metres made by him.

Renouf T has silky hands & is always looking for an offload, can sniff out tries too!



Sue, Now Napa..... along with Tolman, we’ll be fine up front!


The one we ain’t mentioning is Fualalo.... this is a guy built like Taulmalolo, yet plays the game without bringing anything to the table, very disappointed in his 2018 season!



Concern is still around the Backs for us in 2019.

If Smith or Hoppa etc get injured, we are lacking depth there
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It's amazing how much insight you can get actually playing the game. So last week I played hooker for our team.
First time I've played it. But I did notice how slow my passing game was. By the time the first receiver got my pass he was hammered by the defense. Made zero meters. I remembered Lichaa playing style and did the double pump dummy which was even worse. Even I got smashed with the ball. 
I never realized how important that position was and how much control of the team you have from dummy half. 
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On the subject of the NRL and contracts I personally think that they are correct in staying out of the process. If a player can obtain more money at a different club then it is a personal matter between the player and his current club to come to a satisfactory arrangement. Just think how you would feel if the parent company of your current employer interfered with you seeking employment with another company for a pay increase. I think the only time the NRL should interfere with a clubs contract arrangements, if it revealed that those arrangements would impact on the NRL itself. On the loss of Klemmer to the Knights, initially he may be missed but I see it as a fate thing. Maybe Klemmer moving on will allow us to uncover talent that would have been otherwise overlooked had Klemmer stayed. Everything happens for a reason.
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Slinky_v1 - 27 Nov 2018 2:53 PM
It's amazing how much insight you can get actually playing the game. So last week I played hooker for our team.
First time I've played it. But I did notice how slow my passing game was. By the time the first receiver got my pass he was hammered by the defense. Made zero meters. I remembered Lichaa playing style and did the double pump dummy which was even worse. Even I got smashed with the ball. 
I never realized how important that position was and how much control of the team you have from dummy half. 

Yep.
I think in the modern game, your hooker has to be instinctive and play whats in front of him rather than what he premediated 2 tackles ago....
That's Lichaa's problem. Same as Tolman. When they find themselves in a position to react and take opportunity, they are like deer in headlights and usually stuff things up.

Maybe if our halves elevate themselves to elite level they'll be able to mask the deficiencies of Lichaa. 
It wasn't the case from 2014-mid 2018 so both Ennis and Lichaa looked horrible. But I feel that with Lewis we have turned the corner and maybe we can overcome this final thorn

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Marki - 27 Nov 2018 12:44 PM
Zef - 27 Nov 2018 12:04 PM

Wrong.
A contract is between player and club and up to thr NRL to decide if they register it or not.
The NRL had a moral and integrity obligation when they chose to register Phlegms Knights contract.

Just like they stood their ground with Brett Stewart, Todd Carney, SBW, Barba and nearly that of Matt Lodge they had an opportunity to reject registering Phlegms contract on grounds of monetary gain.

It's obvious the NRL doesn't care if one team is disadvantaged at the expense of another. Hypocrisy is rife.

Marki................?

You're just making shit up.

The NRL has a "moral" and "integrity" obligation to not register Klems contract on the grounds of "monetary gain"

WTF is any of that supposed to mean? Tell me what is the crime of "monetary gain". And if there is a crime of "monetary gain" why are you using Stewart, Carney, SB, Barba and Lodge as examples when you know their issues weren't "monetary gain" at all? SB might go close but the issue there was there was no release granted from The Dogs. But the rest of them - what has alleged sexual assault, bubbling your own urine, snorting coke or assault and battery got to do with "monetary gain"?

Anyway.... back to reality. Klem asked for a release, the Dogs GRANTED that release - what part should The NRL have to play in that? You know, morally and with integrity and all that.
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Mind you, I do know where you got some of it from.

You've seen in movies or TV shows or maybe read in the newspaper where someone has been charged or arrested for maybe "Selling illegal drugs for monetary gain" or running some scam for "monetary gain" and so got it in your head that it sounds all legit and you know what you're talking about if you say Klem's guilty of "monetary gain".

But it ain't so much the "monetary gain" part that got all those villains in trouble man, it was what the drugs and scams that were the real problem.

"Monetary gain" - you do that every day. So do most of us.

Life is not a movie, Marki.
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Slinky_v1 - 27 Nov 2018 2:53 PM
It's amazing how much insight you can get actually playing the game. So last week I played hooker for our team.
First time I've played it. But I did notice how slow my passing game was. By the time the first receiver got my pass he was hammered by the defense. Made zero meters. I remembered Lichaa playing style and did the double pump dummy which was even worse. Even I got smashed with the ball. 
I never realized how important that position was and how much control of the team you have from dummy half. 

Every game is much easier when your team has momentum, in league that is probably winning the collision.
We had a lot of slow play the balls the last few seasons, even when Klem made good post contact metres it was often a slow play the ball.
I thought Woods would add a quick play the ball.
But I have no doubt that a good dummy half is vital in the modern game, just about the most important player on the field. 
Ball playing with the ball is amazing if you can get the opposition to sit back and watch you, you have all the time in the world.
Most of the time when the defence is on top, I think the first receiver should stand deeper, not wider, even closer in, but deeper.
I'm always amazed when teams stand flat in attack and throw the ball wide off a slow play the ball, that never goes well.
Flat attack is great off a quick play the ball,with player running onto the ball over the ad line.
I was very happy to see our passing drills at training, stand deep and move the ball fast, the opposition will not have time to slide, every team in the NRL is sliding as most ball movement isn't fast enough. Or that is what I think, I would like to see the experiment tried.    
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Marki - 27 Nov 2018 3:12 PM
Slinky_v1 - 27 Nov 2018 2:53 PM

Yep.
I think in the modern game, your hooker has to be instinctive and play whats in front of him rather than what he premediated 2 tackles ago....
That's Lichaa's problem. Same as Tolman. When they find themselves in a position to react and take opportunity, they are like deer in headlights and usually stuff things up.

Maybe if our halves elevate themselves to elite level they'll be able to mask the deficiencies of Lichaa. 
It wasn't the case from 2014-mid 2018 so both Ennis and Lichaa looked horrible. But I feel that with Lewis we have turned the corner and maybe we can overcome this final thorn

When Ennis moved to the Sharks he played with dominant quality halves a much easier gig.

Lichaa was great in the lower grades, but his game has some limitations, he is mainly good at running the ball off a fast play the ball.
Currently in the NRL he seems to get lost at the end of his run and tries to linkup with support players and it never works.
If he is in the clear, I think he should dummy and try to break the tackle most of the time, we are better off playing off the back of the next play.
When he slows down and looks for support , for some reason his team mates look like total strangers, and we lose all momentum, in the end he is going too much across field and too slow, most of the time.

If he is ever going to come good, this is probably the year,


Edited
7 Years Ago by hounddog
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Zef - 27 Nov 2018 3:24 PM
Marki - 27 Nov 2018 12:44 PM

Marki................?

You're just making shit up.

The NRL has a "moral" and "integrity" obligation to not register Klems contract on the grounds of "monetary gain"

WTF is any of that supposed to mean? Tell me what is the crime of "monetary gain". And if there is a crime of "monetary gain" why are you using Stewart, Carney, SB, Barba and Lodge as examples when you know their issues weren't "monetary gain" at all? SB might go close but the issue there was there was no release granted from The Dogs. But the rest of them - what has alleged sexual assault, bubbling your own urine, snorting coke or assault and battery got to do with "monetary gain"?

Anyway.... back to reality. Klem asked for a release, the Dogs GRANTED that release - what part should The NRL have to play in that? You know, morally and with integrity and all that.

My apologies. You make a good point. This wasn't a case of a player wanting to leave for more money and the club not wanting him to go.
Clearly our club rubbed its hands when Phlegm approached them and nearly tripped over themselves to offer him a release but hold off on it until they found some sort of replacement.

My mistake was that I expected the NRL to tow a harder line than what our club did, but you're right. If our club didn't give a rats ar'se why would they? It didn't cost them anything and it strengthened one of their darling teams in Newcastle. Coz everyone knows that if Souths and Newcastle are going strong.....the game is going strong.

Questions must then be asked of our club as to why they feel they benefitted from this transaction. 

If it were Kasiano, paid decent money for not much return I could understand. But for it to be arguably our best player, we seem to have rolled over quite meekly. Again.



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Zef - 27 Nov 2018 3:32 PM
Mind you, I do know where you got some of it from.

You've seen in movies or TV shows or maybe read in the newspaper where someone has been charged or arrested for maybe "Selling illegal drugs for monetary gain" or running some scam for "monetary gain" and so got it in your head that it sounds all legit and you know what you're talking about if you say Klem's guilty of "monetary gain".

But it ain't so much the "monetary gain" part that got all those villains in trouble man, it was what the drugs and scams that were the real problem.

"Monetary gain" - you do that every day. So do most of us.

Life is not a movie, Marki.

What I was alluding to is that the NRL has a brand to protect.
By allowing players to break their contracts willy nilly just because they get offered more from someone else, damages their brand.
For this reason, they could step in and stop players making long term deals only to cut them short and turn fans away by doing so.

I understand its a business more than a sport now, but part of me still believes the game has some sort of meaning in this world where teams fight it out to win a trophy and fans supports teams for that reason.

But as you said in the earlier post, Phlegm asked for the release, we GRANTED it. My anger is misdirected at the NRL

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hounddog - 27 Nov 2018 4:07 PM
Marki - 27 Nov 2018 3:12 PM

When Ennis moved to the Sharks he played with dominant quality halves a much easier gig.

Lichaa was great in the lower grades, but his game has some limitations, he is mainly good at running the ball off a fast play the ball.
Currently in the NRL he seems to get lost at the end of his run and tries to linkup with support players and it never works.
If he is in the clear, I think he should dummy and try to break the tackle most of the time, we are better off playing off the back of the next play.
When he slows down and looks for support , for some reason his team mates look like total strangers, and we lose all momentum, in the end he is going too much across field and too slow, most of the time.

If he is ever going to come good, this is probably the year,


You have described the exact attributes of the player who I think will never change.
There has never been contrary evidence of it previously and IMO there never will.
But.....it will take Pay another year to figure it out.

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Marki - 27 Nov 2018 4:35 PM
hounddog - 27 Nov 2018 4:07 PM

You have described the exact attributes of the player who I think will never change.
There has never been contrary evidence of it previously and IMO there never will.
But.....it will take Pay another year to figure it out.

I don't think we have an outstanding replacement this season.

Let's see how JMK/Lichaa progresses and perhaps hunt around for a really good young 9.
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I don't like this Marki. This.... this.... humbleness, this saying you were wrong, this... this....apology?

I don't like it at all Marki. Something's very f***in' wrong here. I can't help feel there's a joke I'm not part of or something

I don't like it
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Zef - 27 Nov 2018 5:16 PM
I don't like this Marki. This.... this.... humbleness, this saying you were wrong, this... this....apology?

I don't like it at all Marki. Something's very f***in' wrong here. I can't help feel there's a joke I'm not part of or something

I don't like it

Humble is a word Marki does not know the meaning of...in fact there are a lot of words Marki does not know the meaning of.
I do think Marki should preface a lot of his posts with "In a perfect world" because Shangrila as he sees it does not even remotely exist

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hounddog - 27 Nov 2018 4:07 PM
Marki - 27 Nov 2018 3:12 PM

When Ennis moved to the Sharks he played with dominant quality halves a much easier gig.

Lichaa was great in the lower grades, but his game has some limitations, he is mainly good at running the ball off a fast play the ball.
Currently in the NRL he seems to get lost at the end of his run and tries to linkup with support players and it never works.
If he is in the clear, I think he should dummy and try to break the tackle most of the time, we are better off playing off the back of the next play.
When he slows down and looks for support , for some reason his team mates look like total strangers, and we lose all momentum, in the end he is going too much across field and too slow, most of the time.

If he is ever going to come good, this is probably the year,


Contract year. Last 3 games will be MOM.
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hounddog - 27 Nov 2018 4:52 PM
Marki - 27 Nov 2018 4:35 PM

I don't think we have an outstanding replacement this season.

Let's see how JMK/Lichaa progresses and perhaps hunt around for a really good young 9.

Do you possibly think an experienced 9 would be better for us rather than good young un?

We need a dummy half to help our young forwards and halves (cant see Foran lasting unfortunately). If we don't get one,  Cogger to 9 if Foran lasts the season? He has the organising skills and directs plays. Is Cogger at 9 a real answer? Just trying to use our 29 to best advantage). 



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The way I see it is we had an assett with Klemmer's contract.  We got nothing for that assett.  Poor management by the club.  If I was a farmer with a water allocation ( an assett like Klemmers contract), I wouldn't just hand it back to avoid the ongoing cost.  I would sell it.  We should have said to Klemmer's manager "what are you offering for this assett".  He can then come up with money or players for our consideration.  Klem could play poorly if he chose.  If he does we can scuttle his rep career by sending him to park football.  This NRL contract circus needs to stop
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Suncoastdog - 27 Nov 2018 6:16 PM
The way I see it is we had an assett with Klemmer's contract.  We got nothing for that assett.  Poor management by the club.  If I was a farmer with a water allocation ( an assett like Klemmers contract), I wouldn't just hand it back to avoid the ongoing cost.  I would sell it.  We should have said to Klemmer's manager "what are you offering for this assett".  He can then come up with money or players for our consideration.  Klem could play poorly if he chose.  If he does we can scuttle his rep career by sending him to park football.  This NRL contract circus needs to stop

Send Klem to park football, we don't get Napa and are playing with a 29 man NRL squad and we are still paying Klem's contract,at least some of the time.

I don't like the situation any more than you do, but it isn't poor management, smart management is working out what is achievable.
It is different to the SBW situation which we also got right, the difference is Klem was up front.

Other players watch how we treat our players in all situations, and make their decisions accordingly. Including whether or not they want to come to our club.

Where the NRL needs to tighten things up is stripping player managers accreditation if they organise illegal approaches to players.
It is very hard to police, player talk to other players, you can't stop people talking. 

Forget who is leaving, focus on who is coming, who we are developing and what we can do with the available players.

Once Klem made up his mind he was always going, in many jobs the day you decide to leave is always a great day.
It is a new chapter for him and also for us, we needed renewal. I would rather he stayed, but once he decided he was always going, full stop,


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DanD - 27 Nov 2018 6:10 PM
hounddog - 27 Nov 2018 4:52 PM

Do you possibly think an experienced 9 would be better for us rather than good young un?

We need a dummy half to help our young forwards and halves (cant see Foran lasting unfortunately). If we don't get one,  Cogger to 9 if Foran lasts the season? He has the organising skills and directs plays. Is Cogger at 9 a real answer? Just trying to use our 29 to best advantage). 



Off the top of my head I can't think of an experienced 9 who will last to our next premiership window, (3-5 years).
Most of the good players are already signed or are getting towards the end of their career.
The one exception is the Canberra 9 Hodgson, he is quality, and doesn't seem too old.
I don't think Cogger could play 9, I would rather play Lewis there, Lewis could be an excellent player in a number of positions.
We are running with JMK/Brown possibly, I have a few doubts that that is the answer, but as we let Woolford go we might be confident. (or out of cash)
One bloke who would bring plenty of madness is Joey Tramontana, probably too much madness.
But I'm a bit surprised his career has gone nowhere, he is the best lower grade hooker the club has had for years.
Probably the fact that he will be suspended > 60% of the time counts against him.
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The bloke we should 100000% go for to be our next Hooker for the next 10yrs is Brandon Smith!


Why in hell would he want to keep coming off the bench for the Storm whilst Cam Smith plays on for another 2yrs?



Brandon Smith...... go get him Dean Pay
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hounddog - 27 Nov 2018 6:55 PM
Suncoastdog - 27 Nov 2018 6:16 PM

Send Klem to park football, we don't get Napa and are playing with a 29 man NRL squad and we are still paying Klem's contract,at least some of the time.

I don't like the situation any more than you do, but it isn't poor management, smart management is working out what is achievable.
It is different to the SBW situation which we also got right, the difference is Klem was up front.

Other players watch how we treat our players in all situations, and make their decisions accordingly. Including whether or not they want to come to our club.

Where the NRL needs to tighten things up is stripping player managers accreditation if they organise illegal approaches to players.
It is very hard to police, player talk to other players, you can't stop people talking. 

Forget who is leaving, focus on who is coming, who we are developing and what we can do with the available players.

Once Klem made up his mind he was always going, in many jobs the day you decide to leave is always a great day.
It is a new chapter for him and also for us, we needed renewal. I would rather he stayed, but once he decided he was always going, full stop,


Keep rolling over it will keep happening.  We have nothing going forward if we are seen as a soft touch.  Once some one takes a stand others will follow.  Would you give your car away to save rego and insurance and get nothing for it.


GO


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