Good suggestion.

How many people do u know who've walked away from the game cos a player left a club?...
Its none for me...
I can't wait to see klem get smashed by our team for years to come...

Winning, and being a prem threat will change the desire to leave pretty quickly... 

We effectively do not have any contracted players.  They are only here at the whim of the player or manager.  How do you build a squad under these circumstances. Loyalty, other than to the mighty dollar is a fantasy

A bit dramatic don't you think.

Here's the thing about 99% of players, even the biggest names - they're more concerned about the contracts they have than looking for the next one. Most of them haven't got a next one to consider.

This might come abit from left field but it as the best example I can come up with....

People look back at our team of early 00's and refer to them as the bling bros. They knock them for having a strong between them and wanting to play for each other (just like they enjoyed partying together). 

This is what is missing from our team. That camaraderie. The feeling of wanting to stay together even it meant your mate was earning more than you. 

Our team of early 2000's had it (Mason, Maitua, SBW, Anasta, Patten). The Roosters of the same era had it (Mini, Walker, Wing, Ricketson). I use to go out and see these guys getting drunk in nightclubs every second weekend.

It wasnt the best look for them or the game but at least you had as group of players who wanted to be together and striving for a common goal.

The closest recent example of this kind of thing was our 2014 team whereby some of our players would have family BBQs together. JG, Ennis, JR etc. We made the GF that year. 

It goes to show that if you have a core playing group that wants to play together (and I dont mean like Mbye talking about it), you are halfway to success. 

You're kidding arent you?
The next contract is the ONLY one they care about. Just about all of them.

Why would you worry about your current contract? It's done. The club cant sack you. They have to pay you out. Even if they ship you off, you'll be paid off.

The only players that worry about their current contracts are the ones about to have it torn for misdemeanors, or Bulldogs players who are earning half their worth but would command double at a rival club. That's it. 

Stop smoking the funny stuff Zef, or at least pass it around so we can all talk sheet.

I don,t think 99% of players are concerned about the contracts they have per se.  The contracts they have have numbers.  Years and renumeration.  These contracts appear to be considered a minimum they can fall  back on, but as soon as their form or status improves they want a new one with bigger numbers. These possibilities should be considered by both parties when a contract is signed. This contract length is a judgement that should be considered when the contract is agreed to.

We are rebuilding and there is a process you need to go through.
Find a core group of key players who want to stay here.
Then find good young talented players who want to build a career here.
Initially they all stay as there is opportunity here and no better offer elsewhere.
Then if and when we have success they get big money offers elsewhere.
Some will stay to play with their mates and the coach and club that gave them an opportunity, some will take the cash, every player is different and every situation is different.
For those that go, we need good replacements.
Unless you are the Roosters or Bronocs no club can reliably buy a premiership, many try.
If we fix our juniors, scouting, lower grades coaching and development, we will produce talent faster than others can poach it.
Most of our premierships have been built around locally developed talent.

Here you go Zef....it has started.....
I know circumstances are different but it leaves fans' hopes in the gutter...

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/widdop-shocks-dragons-with-release-request-with-three-years-left-on-deal-20181127-p50iqx.html

So Widdop wants out with 3yrs left on his contract with Dragons..... let’s see how Dragons management handle this?


Shaun Johnson wants out too!



Both clubs will be lucky to find replacements in the halves..... yet in the forwards, it’s definitely a different story like in our case with that dog Klemmer

Nah look I stand by what I said, maybe I could've worded it better, but the basis of what I meant is what I meant.

Phil Gould once mentioned the percentage of players that make NRL debuts that go on to play 50 games. Now I can't remember the exact number but it was surprisingly low - in the teens. Then of them you can take a teen % that go on to 100 games, same to 150, by the time you get to 200 NRL games (which could be considered an NRL career) it's like 1 in 500 or a 1000 even.

And then plenty, most, of them and all below them don't have offers from other clubs, the best they can hope for is a renewal (which is perhaps what I should've said). Most of them, the vast vast vast majority of them 90%+ of them are not shopping themselves around because there's nobody wanting to buy them.

Hence their only concern is their current contract and hoping getting it renewed - that's what I meant.

You throw up Garteh Widdup as some sort of example of players constantly shopping themselves around, well add Klem to it, hell lets add another 50 from this off-season and you know I'm over estimating.

Well there's 30 players in an NRL squad, let's even say only 20 of them are considered NRL ready (it'd be more like 25 but lets use 20) 20x16 =320. 50 of that ( a massive over-estimation) = what's that... not so good estimating percentages - 6% oddish?

So you're using 6% (massively over-estimated) as some sort of example?

I'll stick with what I said, most players are more concerned with their current contract - with the clarification of that concern being they hope it's renewed. They ain't shopping themselves around because there's simply not enough buyers for the stock.

Straight swap???...

Who?... Name one... 
Its such a big issue for you, yet you still follow the game?..
Its only a big deal cos the media tells you what to think...
Player come and go... Have since Jesus played fullback for Jerusalem .Then asked for a release to.......

How's the weather in Syd? Typically the media making it sound like the end of the world... I've heard 'almost apocolyptic conditions', 'horror weather', 'a nightmare' 'a city brought to its knees' ' what has benn dubbed (by them) wild Wednesday' fekking alarmists..

It will settle the dust but won't blow the dog off the chain

Wrong again Dman, Jesus was was a halfback....

He was released to play for the Vatican cardinals... 

SO you've answered your own question...
Most (if not all) players are thinking of their next contract. Because everything you just said is about the short term employment of the player and the need for them to secure a financial future. Hence they only care about their next contract (or future contracts).

What you're trying to say Zef, is that many players are worried about their form and projecting a positive image so that they get noticed and get offers in the future. That's different to them worried about which contract they care about.

The big news of the time being God breaking contract with the Afterlife Angels to coach his son...

You're a funny man Dman….
The issue isn't people like me. I'd follow league even if the Dogs were punted or re-located.
Of everyone on this page, I probably go close to watching more non-Bulldogs games than most. 
And that is where the issue lies.....


The NRL and its clubs have a limited market to operate in. They not only need the hardcore supporters (those guys never go away), they need the bandwagon supporters to increase their coffers and offer a greater game and spectacle.

It is the bandwagon supporters they need, in order to grow the game and their revenue streams.

Things like double headers, this years full week of league games at Suncorp, taking SOO to interstate venues, regional games etc. These are all designed to increase fanfare even if you don't support the teams playing on the day.

I feel for the Dragons, I really do. 
Like us, they made recruitment and retention decisions to give themselves the best chance of a premiership. They were faced with retirement from Nightingale, and made the decision to release Nene McDonald so they can get cheaper outside backs, thinking they had the best halves in the comp that can deliver a premiership irrespective of who was on the wing. They now could be faced with egg on their face if Widdop goes as they have limited options to replace him and will probably have inexperienced wingers. Premiership dream in 2019 is all but shot.


It can happen to any club, I know, but when clubs single out players to build the team around them and then that player walks out on the tenure of his contract, it has massive effect on the plan. Both Dragons and Dogs are stuffed as a result of this.

I'm not "trying" to say anything Marki, what I am saying is in response to the post I quoted in my initial post which you jumped all over trying to make some point without taking in the context of what I was responding to. Which was, and I'll quote it again for you - 

"We effectively do not have any contracted players.  They are only here at the whim of the player or manager.  How do you build a squad under these circumstances. Loyalty, other than to the mighty dollar is a fantasy"

My response, being that it's a bit over dramatic and most players are more concerned with the contract they got should be taken in that context.

And I still stand by it.

And I'll back it up by saying most, the majority, of players are not shopping themselves around, their more concerned with getting a renewal. Simply because that's the best most of them can hope for. You can give examples of the top 10% shopping themselves around to the highest bidder all you want, but it's still only 10%.

Loyalty from players is not going to see an increase in business to customer activity... The spectacles you mentioned may, cheaper tickets and food may, a game day experience that is entertaining and relevant (touch foity be fekked)...

Look at the market any sport would be trying to target; the youth demographic... The majority of these millennials are loyal to nothing but their own 'brand' or who they're modelling it on...
Interestingly there are many kids  that follow a particular player and switch teams when the trade happens in MLB, and NBA...
Player loyalty has zero to do with attracting fare weather or new fans...
And never, ever, ever feel sorry for the dragons... 

Marki in terms of growing the game and ensuring a future for the NRL, player movements and unequal policing of the SC are a minor consideration.

The bigger issue is constant negative press for Channel 9 and News Corp which I suspect is aimed at getting a good deal on broadcast rights.

The NRL needs to take control of broadcast rights and sell to multiple outlets, but in particular sell digital rights directly.

Then the aim of growing the game is best achieved by ensuing a fair and entertaining spectacle, essentially letting the game flow.
Let the game flow and the speed and skill of younger more exciting players will triumph over the experience and game management of older players.

Scrums could be simplified to a scrum formation with the half back taking a tap behind the scrum, scrums only for a kicking into touch etc.
The receiving side has the option of a quick throw in instead.

Dropped ball, forward pass, is simply a hand over, with an option for a quick play the ball.
Tidy the ruck up, and 5 minutes in the bin for offside or holding down in the tackle. (every time)

Speed the game up there is more action, and more exciting comebacks.

You need to get the balance right between attack and defence so slow evolution is the best approach, don't try all the new ideas at once.
The problem for the NRL and most other sports is that there is a lot of sport around, in particular on TV or digital platforms.

People like me grew up playing or watching League when it was the predominant sport, soccer wasn't major competition and AFL was manly played in Vic. Different now, league needs to be good entertainment, live and on TV.
Lifting the quality of the TV commentators would also help, that is possibly why we need more broadcasters.
Or the NRL should take total control of the video and audio. 

No one cares if a squad player shops themselves around or to the club they are currently with....
But we all care about our better players - the stars of the game.

If Lichaa or Tolman shopped themselves and left, we wouldn't bat an eyelid (some of us might even cheer).
But Klem going after originally sighting "looking after his family" and now "wanting to play finals football" as reasons for his decision leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Im sure others feel the same.

Its bad enough when a player does something stupid (drugs, assault etc) and gets rubbed out of the team and the game. 
Its just as bad or even worse when one of your stars says he doesn't want to be part of the team and club anymore.

One suggestion I heard the other day about the contracts of coaches & players might have some potential. Considering contracts are being broken willy nilly, what someone said was it shouldn't be allowed by the NRL for a pay increase.
For the purpose of putting some value back in the paper that contracts are written on (making contracts great again), as well as giving the NRL more control over all the musical chairs, they could take the idea even further by only registering a new contract (resulting from a broken contract) to half the monetary value of the broken contract.
If nothing else it would keep reasons for breaking contracts honest. If a coach or player is not leaving for the money or pay rise, considering they're disrupting of their clubs, team mates, merchandise, promotions etc, then put their money where their mouth is. It makes sense as it would cut out all the lies & compassionate grounds exploitation.
It's not like they'd be deprived of their income, which they negotiated & agreed to in the first place, unless they choose to disrupt their clubs by wanting to terminate their own contracts, which would bring in the 50% income decrease/limit with their next contract. It could be limited to the duration of the contract they're breaking or any other variables, as long as it keeps things honest. Current coaches & players wont like ideas like that because it's all about the money (notice the irony).

I'm all for improving the situation in relation to contracts, anything to do with the base contract being capped doesn't cover TPA's.
The NRL will soon get into tricky territory if they try to cap a players income.
Or players will  move to a new code.  
I suggested a points system earlier, which most don't like.
I've previously suggested SC discounts for years of service at the club, including lower grades.
You could get this area perfect, but if the quality of the games is crap, the game day experience is bad, the media is poor and the commentary is poor, fans will not watch the games anyway. 
Some of these areas seem way easier to fix than player contracts.
One simple fix for player contracts is to keep increasing the SC, that dilutes the effect of TPAs, or means they also need to increase.
What it comes down to is that the type of move Klem did is impossible for the club or NRL to prevent, and barring some miracle will always be impossible to prevent.
I've made similar career moves myself,  most of us have. 

What I am also trying to say is a system that rewards loyalty is easier to implement, than a system which punishes a lack of loyalty, and most fans want to see loyalty rewarded.

Well put that into context too, how many times has it happened to us. There's Klem, which may or may not have something to do with the club. And before that.... SB maybe?

So it's not as if it's endemic, or even often, or even anything to make drama over.

Sh.t happens, personalities clash, the missus wears the pants.

Don't mean there's anything wrong with the club.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/bulldogs/napa-reveals-how-the-roosters-lost-him-despite-winning-the-premiership/news-story/256010e69c8bb7f0c5be0b05bdb71893?fbclid=IwAR3ZOAMQ_0ZpoRond2G7Rz-unolgTneHx5NU5vYfDwMD7teZXhUj2ananuM

Good start...

TPA's also need more attention from the NRL. Everyone knows they give certain clubs an advantage over others.
No coincidence they're all the super league manufactured clubs. They're just another way of rorting the SC.
And the SC can't be increased so easily because there's only so much money to go around & upping players income weakens other aspects, like development areas etc.
All the above are good ideas though.
I don't know why we even bother, the NRL pander to their telecast money, the players to theirs...
At the end of the day, nothing gets improved, in fact the whole unbalanced comp & the running of it just seems to get progressively worse. More flaws keep turning up & instead of fixing anything, they cut corners, sweep things under the carpet & treat the actual fans as irrelevant, without whom there'd be no income in the first place.
Dman is correct. Sack them all!