I love Pant and Paine both....

Just brilliant wicket keeper batner....

Paine instead of Haddin would have been interesting over the past decade is what I wonder....

Baggers - its far more of the problem than you realise - it cost you in SA, it cost you in UAE... and its costing you here....

It's really not "world class"...

OK Baggers
Marsh Bros gone, never to be seen again
Finch gone, I don't even think he would be good at No 6

Harris stays 
Joe Burns in and left alone. No opener since he was given 2 games in Sri Lanka and told he doesn't have it, has come close to matching his record. That's Renshaw, Harris, Finch, Bancroft. Burns is the glue that holds QLD together and Qld won the shield last year and the wins for them have been on the back of Burns and Burns alone. Without Burns, Qld would finish last.

Khawaja, is on unsteady ground. The best thing for Qld cricket is Khawaja playing for Australia. When he is in the side Qld lose more than they win. He is an unsettling influence on Qld cricket with his lazy attitude and that attitude is reflected in his Australian play, poor shots. But at the moment he is in.

Smith will come back, until he does Kurtis Patterson, but Patterson goes for Smith. Patterson has an exaggerated FC average because he plays most of his games in NSW his FC average is only equivalent to 30-35 elsewhere as we discussed previously. If Patterson does well and Khawaja continues his laziness Smith in for Khawaja.

Travis Head

No 6 choice Wade/ Maxwell/ Lehmann/ Pucovski/ Labuschagne (preference is Pucovski)

Paine in.... back up keeper is Peirson, possibly Wade but keeping is questionable on Wade. Carey only has 29 average and he is only slightly superior to Peirson in keeping ability and Peirson is captain of the winning sheffield shield last year. 

Pattinson

Starc

Cummins

Lyon

12 man Tremain who replaces Starc
13th man Richardson
14th man Michael Neser hard not to see an advantage of a 50+ average in batting this year.
That is the best side IMO who will give maximum runs that Australia can possibly get. Plus the 4 proven wicket takers at test level are in the side and all 4 can bat. There is no stronger batting side in Australia IMO.

Possible future captains Burns or Peirson if Paine out and Smith never captains again

And that is the sad state of Australian batting when the only proven ability is Smith, Burns and Khawaja

As for Warner I would rather lose than allow him to make another cent from Australian cricket. It's bad enough he has potentially cost Bancroft his career.

Devastating spell by Aus, led by Cummins, late in the day.

India on the ropes at 5-50ish in India’s second innings after Cummins took 4 wickets for 2 runs.

Terrific field placing by Paine having Harris at leg slip to dismiss Kohli and Pujara, both for 0, off Cummins.

If he bowled well pick him as a bowler but he does not belong anywhere near the top 6 positions, they are positions for batsmen or batting all rounders. Mitch Marsh is neither. 

The Indian bowlers are simply more skilled bowlers.

Hick maybe part of the problem, and certainly his position needs to be looked at, but he certainly is not the whole problem.
I don't think young players are being encouraged to develop test match batting qualities as they come through the ranks and I also think they do not really have a burning desire to develop these qualities because of fake cricket.
Hick might be teaching the right things but the players are not really listening or their instincts have been corrupted so much that they are struggling to overcome their more aggressive less technically correct way of playing. 
We are seeing the result of not a couple of years of bad coaching but a rot that has set in and grown over the last decade or so.

Head can bowl, he could have held up an end for a while. He surely cannot be any worse than Darren Lehmann who bowled a little bit in test matches and Mark Waugh bowled his off spinners quite a bit in tests and he was not great either. He might have even got a wicket if the batsmen relaxed against him and played too aggressively.

I see Pattinson and Tremain mentioned as possible fast bowlers to bring into the team. They both play for Victoria and have been comprehensively out bowled this season by Scott Boland who never seems to to get mentioned. Why?
Admittedly Tremains overall FC record is a lot better than Boland's and he is two years younger, but Boland is the form bowler of the season.
Boland 36 wickets at 17.41 6 matches
Tremain 28 wickets at 23.60 6 matches
Pattinson 9 wickets at 33.11 4 matches
Siddle 10 wickets at 28.3 2 matches
At this rate Pattinson does not even make the Victorian side.

However I am very tempted to just go for the young talent, pick Jhye Richardson and let him fly. Not that it really matters but he can also bat.

Neser cannot even average under 30 this Shield season when we all agree there is not real batting quality around. Should be nowhere near the test team, his batting is irrelevant.

Team for Sydney

Harris
Burns
Khawaja
Head
Paterson
Maxwell
Paine
Cummins
Starc
Richardson
Lyon

batting side looks a lot more competitive

one thing that should be noted is that bowlers often get better results when scoreboard pressure is in their favour

Hazelwood and starc have had a form slump but thats exaggerated by the fact that scoreboard pressure is rarely in our favour

our bowling unit has often gotten us back into matches since our batting is so poor

It also allows for more attacking fields which can make all the difference.

how many times over the last 2 years have our bowlers taken 20 wickets

by comparison how many times have our batters failed to get 600 runs accross 2 innings

600 is generous in the modern game btw 650 is probably the new par


its our batsmen that are the problem if you ask me

yep forced shots, more fielders in poor decisions, batsmen having indecision

Bowling with scoreboard pressure on your side and against is probably worth 6 points on an average

In the last 25 tests not including this current test, most of which had Smith and Warner and throw Khawaja in as well. Australia has won 11 matches in that time so they have to take 20 wickets to win

Australia has only taken 20 wickets on 14 occasions (56%) with 3 drawn games.  So when Australia lose a test they rarely bowl the opposition out, but not all tests are won by a number of wickets, There have been a lot of declarations.

On 12 occasions (48%) the opposition have scored 600+ runs

On only 6 occasions 24% have Australia restricted the opposition to under 500

On 9 occasions (36%) Australia has scored under 500

On 8 occasions (32%) Australia has scored over 600

So yes Batting is a problem, but it is not as bad as it is made out remembering Australia have played with Smith, Warner, Khawaja, they have a productive tail in Starc, Cummins, Lyons. The opposition bowlers which have been a variety of attacks, have all managed to restrict Australia to under 600 on 68% of the time. But when the opposition regularly score over 600 runs in a match which is half the time, the bowling has to be closely examined. This year Hazlewood has averaged 35, if that is acceptable then if all bowlers were to bowl at that average, the opposition would be scoring 700 runs in a match, and you can't win. So yes Hazlewood needs to go.

But one of the real problems for selectors and the pressure placed on them by CA is the ridiculous player contracts that exist. CA is paying an elite 20, 5 times more than a shield player. If the they don't play these elite 20 then it money out the window, and we are talking a base salary only approaching 20 million dollars (approximately 100 sheffield shield players) They also get match payments, but the really ridiculous payments are the bonuses. If a player scores a century, bonus, takes 5 wickets bonus. "players could share in $42 million of incentives over five years, based on match and series wins at home and abroad, draws abroad and team world rankings."

Now pick your team from 
2018-19 CA men's contracts: Ashton Agar, Alex Carey, Pat Cummins, Aaron Finch, Peter Handscomb, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, Nathan Lyon, Glenn Maxwell, Shaun Marsh, Mitchell Marsh, Tim Paine, Matthew Renshaw, Jhye Richardson, Kane Richardson, Billy Stanlake, Mitchell Starc, Marcus Stoinis, Andrew Tye. (not many batsmen to chose from and not many consistent performers at shield level) And you wonder why the Marsh Bros are consistently picked. Apart from Jhye Richardson even the bowlers wouldn't be ones i would chose for tests. No Boland, Tremain, Pattinson etc. And when they have an injured bowler who do they replace them with Bird or Siddle, well and truly past their used by date. These selections are solely protection of their contract players. Imagine if a quality performing bowler was picked and actually did well.

Fair comment, Grazor.

The pace bowlers are exhausted though, because of lack of support from batters. The batters are trying their hardest. They just aren't good enough or experienced enough in Test cricket at this stage of their careers

Sandpapergate, couldn't have come at a worse time.

Interesting to look at these stats.

I've had trouble finding them.

Riley Meredith, the young Tassie bowler has been recorded in the mid 140s in BBL. Faster than any Victorian bowler.

I don't  like Tremain's bowling action from viewing  him live.

It helps a lot.

True.

hmm so you are saying that there is pressure to pick players with elite contracts. That does make things more difficult

for bowling we have an embarrasment of riches when it comes to 1st class averages

Line and length bowlers (bowling average/strike rate/batting average)

Tremain (27) 23.68/45.7/13.87
Faulkner (27) 24.78/50.9/30.91 (not sure if he's interested in test)
Bird (32): 24.82/48.7/11.85
Sayers (31) 24.83/55.3/13.4
Hazelwood (27): 24.97/53.2/12.38

Tearaway bowlers

J Richardson (22) 23.24/47.7/21.78
Pattison (28) 22.45/41.7/24.76
Cummins (25) 25.72/53.0/23.72
Starc  (28) 26.78/48.1/21.74

Spinners

O'keefe (34) 25.06/58.5/27.52
Ahmed (36) 31.11/53.0/10.78
Lyon  (31) 34.18/66.5/13.07

remarkably none of our bowlers in each category are at the top. Even still, Hazelwood and Starc's average are more than good enough at both test and first class. They are just out of form probably due to exhaustion. I've heard most bowlers drop in form after a sub continent tour. I remember Brett lee lost about 10k/h after a tour of india and was innocous

there is a good argument for rotating quicks

you know with our batting woes you could really think out of the box and strengthen the batting in the tail having faulkner, o'keefe, pattison and cummins.

A team based purely on 1st class career performances

Burns
Lynn
Khawaja
K Pattison
Maxwell
Cameron White
Paine
Faulkner
O'keefe
J Pattison
Cummins

2 all rounders. 

Can I ask why do you think our bowlers are exhausted? Hazlewood and Cummins are only in their 8th test for the year. They have bowled say 320 overs this year. Cummins has taken 42 wickets so the extra pressure of carrying the pace attack may have some affect. Sure Lyons has bowled 612 overs, but look at Rabada he bowls 320 overs and takes 50 wickets. Bramha and Shami have bowled 360 overs this year and don't look too exhausted to me. Jimmy Anderson at the age of 37 has bowled 400 overs this year and has taken 43 wickets. Exhausted isn't a word I would use myself.

its folklore that a tour to the sub continent followed by an oz summer is tough for a fast bowler

Remember when Kohli won the toss, he said he thought the wicket would play up & would rather bat 1st & 3rd - just doing what he forecast & is right

Tremain has been the form domestic bowler for past two years and is performing well again this season. He deserves a shot at the big time should CA give Hazlewood or Starc a spell back in the Shield. I prefer the young Warriors tearaway Jhye Richardson to Pattinson.

There are some on this forum that constantly castigate our bowling unit. They have been our one saving grace. We are getting 20 wickets and winning games. They showed character, discipline in sweltering conditions on a  deck that offered them little. They never shirked their duty and we should all be proud of them.  It is our batsmen that have let us down.. and let us down badly. They are an embarrassment. How CA chose this rabble is beyond me.  If we lose this series then time to gamble on next gen.. Pucovski, Sangha or Philippe. The Marshs have been given their chance. Finch is not a Test batsman. Head has shown some combative qualities but all too often he gets starts then throws away his wicket with a reckless shot. 

part of the problem is blatant favouritism rather than looking at performance

the other part of the problem is chasing short term 1st class form. It doesn't matter if you score a century just before a test or get a duck just before a test. It doesn't matter if you average 100 in the past season or two. When you go to test level your first 20 matches you are finding your feet and your 1st class form is irrelevant. After you find your feet and played 20 tests, your 1st class form from two years ago is irrelevant and you reproduce your 1st class career average. 

Nearly every batter has a very similar 1st class average and test average if given enough games. Occasionally a batter does worse but its very rare a better does better (voges and smith are rare exception but they had healthy 1st class averages anyway)

Someone needs to convince the muppets at CA to pick our best 11 1st class averages

also Hazelwood has a poor average this year but his career average is great and he is in his prime

form goes up and down and half the time its luck rather than actual performance

Most batters that average in their mid forties will have seasons where they average in the high 20s

it happens

Cummins and Hazlewood didn't tour Pakistan? Their last games before this summer was SA