It could even be a bigger step back with those in charge.

Assume you are right and Hal folds ... what next ...

Maybe I am wrong, but I assume you think if Hal folds some new golden age of enlightenment will take place and grass roots clubs and former NSL clubs will rise up and become a mighty force.

My thinking if Hal folds is Football will go back decades, finding broadcasters, sponsors, and revenue at a level to support a National Domestic Competition at a reasonable standard will be impossible...

There is no question that things have to change but Hal folding is not one... making Hal work better is the answer... the cheering of Hal folding by some I find insane. 

I dont think the HAL should fold, it just needs to expand and change its model

The AFL / NRL is centered around the teams. Teams that have been around for 100 years and will be around for 100 years to come. Think of the AFL / NRL as a theater production. It needs the same characters and the same story line

The A League needs to be centered around the league. The teams playing today may not be playing in 100 years. Similar models are the world cup or Olympics. Even other football leagues around the world. The important thing for football is not that CCM are here 100 years from now, but that the A League itself is. In other words, the A League should be seen as a theater house where many shows (clubs) come and go, but the business itself remains a constant

As for how such a model can be viable, I did stats a long time ago on two EPL seasons a decade apart and 14/20 teams were the same. The churn of teams is gradual and by the time a "big name" drops out completely they have been more than replaced by the next team. As long as there is interest in football somebody is always playing and somebody is always investing. And because success is synonymous with investment in the professional era by definition you cant lose a big team

Bluebird is one of few that makes sense here. 

However he forgets thay that people follow clubs, not sports, not leagues, not entertainment, not ideas. They follow clubs. 

That what sustains all the lower leagues in england. It’s why Richmond had 40k to every home game across a 30 year drought. 

Careful about saying it doesn’t matter if clubs fall. Football in this country is way more fragile than that. 

Bluebird is one of few that makes sense here. 

However he forgets thay that people follow clubs, not sports, not leagues, not entertainment, not ideas. They follow clubs. 

That what sustains all the lower leagues in england. It’s why Richmond had 40k to every home game across a 30 year drought. 

Careful about saying it doesn’t matter if clubs fall. Football in this country is way more fragile than that. 

BINGO I think everyone agrees with this.

For me and maybe I got rocks in my head, but if we get together we could put a model together within weeks that most will support.
Lets just say as a model this is what we want... change to suit but I think this is what would clam most down and most could live with.

Div 1 16 male teams & 16 female teams
Div 2 16 male teams and 16 female teams.
P & R between Div 1 & Div 2
In time a way of determining teams to get from some sort of state league system into Div 2.

Once having agree the model, we don't set time lines, we don't argue about salary caps, we don't argue about whether we have finals etc.

We just agree on a model... then we chip away every year to make it happen.

We argue so much when most want similar things...

If we unite behind a model and then judge management by their ability to move the model forward and if they fail then out they go and new people come in to deliver better the model.

If it takes 3 years or 15 given the 2034 licenses it does not matter... what is important is we decide a model and demand each year we are closer to it..

Football has gone back decades already under the current regime.

We have actually regressed, not got any better. During the NSL, we had the Golden Era, now we are struggling against the UAE, Jordan and war torn Syria. This was unheard of 20 years ago.

I am advocating for change. I also never said that the old NSL clubs will be a force. I want the current franchises to be clubs, and I want them to be joined by old soccer. We need a rich tapestry. I want the authorities to stop sanitizing the game. Who cares what the media say. Let us have our active support .

We need promotion and relegation otherwise the HAL is just a dead limb on the tree and should be cut off. It's not too late for a resurrection. But if there is no reform, then yes, it's time for the HAL to sink like the Titanic.

The game is way bigger than the HAL. The sport will always survive and when the HAL goes down, we can make a National Competition that is open and transparent. Down with the dictatorship!

Wood for the trees.

Do you understand  when someone says YES I agree ... or do you want someone to say, you are the mighty one with unlimited wisdom and everything you say is beyond question, and then maybe just maybe  you understand they agree with you.

No one is questioning the structure needs to change.. no one is questioning a second division...no one is questioning expansion... no one is questioning P & R... we just voted for a change to how Hal is run and currently there are 3 major papers doing the rounds , 1] FFA, 2] PFA, 3] Second Div... most are talking about expansion, a second division, P & R.
That argument is already won... 

What we need to do now is to develop a long term vision of what we want the game to be and as I said 16 Male & female Div 1, 16 male & female teams Div 2, P & R between them and developing a method that teams outside the top 32 can join the second division.

Blind Freddy understands the above cannot be achieved quickly, so don't put tight time lines down, allow it to evolve and if it takes 2 years or 15 years it matters little as long as each year we chip away at reaching the final model... also its not totally timeless but somewhere IMO between 6 & 15 years more likely about 10 years to have the above but earlier is OK it will largely depend on the Football community embracing the model and for that to happen we need unity.

But to keep broadcasters, sponsors, willing investors etc it needs to happen via a successful Hal ... Hal can't fall over if you want the above... 

Also please don't use the NSL as a model ... essentially it was the same model that Hal was with less money.... and it went broke and could not even afford to fly out the Socceroos in the end.

Do you think I am worried if you disagree with me or not? I don't care. It's your right to disagree, or agree, with me all you like.

Also, I do not profess to hold all the wisdom about what is needed to take our game to the next level. I just think we have gone backwards and that we are still going backwards. The HAL, in its current format, is failing. 

I am not as confident that reform will occur. The time lines being talked about (15 years or 2034) mean that reform will not take place. They are just delaying. In my opinion, the A League is going to collapse well before 2034. Australia, in this period risks not qualifying for the World Cup. Therefore, the sport is going to lose relevance on a National Scale. We are struggling against teams that were considered minnows 20 years ago. They have improved, whilst we have gone backwards.

There are 30+ clubs that have expressed an interest to play in a National Competition. This competition can be set up within the next 2 years, and relegation and promotion that be introduced simultaneously.

This chipping away is what is going to destroy the HAL. We are indecisive. There are small countries in Europe with 5 divisions and promotion and relegation through all levels. It gives all clubs an equal crack.

We should be less worried about crowds and more worried about fairness, pluralism, and keeping our sport in its long established traditions and practices.

#BRIvNEW 18k
#CCWvWSW 16k
#ADLvMVC 21k

https://mobile.twitter.com/MediaweekAUS

For a sec I thought you were posting attendances, and I was thinking, they're pretty good numbers!

Thats bad, for the first time in ages we are being out-rated by super rugby

But having watched the ADL v MVC game, 2 shots on target for the whole match, not surprised with the ratings

You are forgetting about the 80/20 rule

The A League doesnt require every single club firing at 100% to be viable. If we lost CCM in the top tier next season and gained Canberra, the result for the league is the same

For Gosford, football will be lower than this year. For Canberra it will be higher. For the league it will be the same

ALF now outrating the A-league almost 20 fold. So much for smelling the fear because at the moment the only thing I smell is the crap.

I get it but I disagree. 

The long term view - in aust - is that if you have clubs coming in and out, and no stability, it weakens them over time, and that weakens the comp. 

in just about all professional sport, people follow clubs, not sports. 

It’s cos of SBS2.  
Its cos of Friday games & no derbies. 
Its cos of no FTA. 
Its cos of ONE not TEN. 
Its cos of Kayo now. 
Its cos of ———-

That's nothing. You should have watched the Brisbane Vs Newcastle game. In fact, disregard, wouldn't wish it upon my enemies.

And they say Ligue 1 is farmers league. Watch on BeIN. Fast in transition, quick on the ball, clinical shots.

No wonder melbcityfan hasn't shown his head here.

Right which is why the current model fails. Where is GCU? Dead. NQF? Dead. CCM if they dont get their act together? Dead. Several NSL teams? Dead

P/R isnt about killing teams, it is about putting them at a sustainable level which changes over time. Thats what competitive sport is about. If you do well you go up a grade, if you do poorly you go down a grade

The current model forces teams to either compete at the highest level for decades or fold as a club. Your view point only works if you see the A League as a stand alone league that runs in isolation to the rest of football instead of simply the top of a pyramid

Does anyone know the ratings the epl get on Optus and sbs?

Optus do not reveal streaming data, it’s incredibly commercially sensitive data. Same with Kayo and Telstra. 

@Melbcityguy

The Roar Supporters Federation (RSF) conduct an end of season survey of fans each year, the recent one for the W-League revealed how they watched the W League this season:

FTA - 56%
Fox Sports - 52%
Telstra - 21% (My Football App)
Kayo - 14%
None - 9%

we didn’t ask exactly the same question last year (there was no Kayo or Telstra) but comparing to last year FTA is down 1% and Fox Sports down just over 10%. 

The report gets sanity checked and then published in the next week or so and in a couple of weeks we’ll have the A League report with the same question. 

People are ticking more than one box, so it's not a great indicator on the time spent on each platform.  With FTA and Fox adding up top over 100% on their own, I'm not sure what conclusion you can draw on the other platforms.  Are they only used in limited circumstances?  For short spurts?  You can't tell unless the specific question is asked.

@ bettega 

The RSF is a Supporters group and not a market research group - so while you’re right, this data would need more detailed analysis and a proper survey with a lot more rigorous questioning technique, that’s not a job for us (you’d think the FFA and clubs would be all over this right) 

We’ll see whether that’s repeated in the HAL survey but as a baseline it can not be dismissed and it looks like 1 in 3 Supporters (35%) are using the new platforms in some way shape or form, and that Telstra is twice as popular as Kayo, but what all that means is anyone’s guess. 

But it as I’ve said on multiple occasions there is a debate to be had in this topic, this thread isn’t having it though. 

P.S. and they’re not “ticking more than one box” as such ... they’re asked how they’ve viewed the WL this year, which would include multiple platforms. There is some age related correlation in there (younger used streaming, older less so) and looks like some mutual exclusions (Fox Sports viewers used fewer alternate platforms including FTA) 

Waiting for AFL data for Sat Afternoon and Sunday, but AFL up across the board. Metro up more than 10%, Fox up 5% and total ratings up more than 10%. All capitals and regionals up.

@footyindustryAU

how does it work when it comes to advertising then? potential sponors would need to see this data.  

I guess that's more an issue for the clubs.

Crowds down in AFL and NRL......Fox revenue down about 10%

no its not. Optus will have sponsors for their coverage. they would have to provide viewing data to these sponsors and potential sponsors. common sense tells me that this data would have to be independently verified. 

That's right Optus would provide snippets of the data to sponsors, but the clubs would not be in the same position to do so, it becomes more their problem.