Yeah, the thread being responded to was about transfers - specifically any more today. 

Did anyone see the Courier Mails response to the RSFs tweet over lack of coverage? 

They said Marco was on holiday and they were “doing their best to cover” lol 

Enjoy the crumbs.

So a quick comparison (obviously  the positions can be switched around a bit) We  see:

Start of Year               end of Year         This Year
GK Young                   Young                 Young
CD Devere                  Pepper               Aldred/Bowles
CD Papadopolous      Bowles               Gilesphsey/Pepper
LB OToole                   Powell                O Toole/Neville
RB Hingert                  Leck                    Hingert/MgGing
RW Mikelson              Mikelson              Inman/Akbari
CM Lopez                   Mackay               O Neil/Mells
CM Kristiansen           Lopez                  Mauk
Lw Bautheac               Bautheac            O Shea
F Holman                    Babalj                 O Donovan
F Taggart                     WenzellHalls      Amadi Holloway/Wenzell Halls

C Aloisi                       Davies                Fowler

When i look at those sides, i think that Fowler has recruited a lot better than i thought at first.  They dont have the depth that they have had previously, but you wouldnt expect them to have he injury crisis either. I could be wrong, but i think that Fowler has the potential to make a massive difference.  If a young team like that cant get excited and perform for someone like Robbie Fowler then they deserve to be cut and replaced by someone who can.  

On Paper i think that they are a fringe top 6 team, but with the right improvement and form they can win the league.  I think it will be an interesting year.

A lot of people have said that they will be happy if they play attractive football and results dont matter.  For mine the passmark should be pretty easy.  I would settle for being completely outplayed in the Grand final and winning in the 90th minute with Amadi Holloway taking a dive in the penalty box and the Video ref missing it.  I am not to fussed so long as there is a succesful win at all costs attitude implemented.  I hope and think Robbie Fowler will reinstall that winning attitude.

RF will add more players so this will change but I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to copy Poppas formula (3 at the back and sitting deeper). Maybe something like this:

                                      Young
Neville/McGing          Aldred       Gillesphey/Bowles
Hingert                                                            O'Toole
                   O'Neill                  Mauk 
                                  O'Shea
       Wenzell-Hall/O'Donovan        Inman 

Possibly, but he won’t put defenders (Hingert and O’Toole) in midfield. 

They're wingbacks. Gillesphey/Bowles LCB. 

I guess that's midfield. 

I figured that, but they’re still defenders playing in midfield. Wingbacks have been proven not to work and I just don’t see him going that way - Hingert and O’Toole haven’t got the skill or the engine for it either. 

the modern interpretation of 3-5-2 is to play two 6’s/DMs in the middle with a central attacking midfielder supported by two wide attackers. 

Holloway for me is a starter - in the modern interpretation the two forwards play more with their backs to the goal than facing it an that’s Holloway, not DWH 

Saw this after I posted. 

If RF is playing 5 in midfield he doesn’t look to have signed enough of them. Unless he plans to play Pepper there but even then, he’s a bit short imo 

Huh? What about Jason Davidson? I agree RF should be signing more midfielders to complete the roster. 

“apart from Jason Davidson” doesn’t rule out the decades of evidence that wingbacks are invariable out of position, prone to injury, and difficult  to replace when they are injured. 

Its much easier to play dual DMs in two of the three central roles. One of which would suit Mauk very well tbh (assuming O’Shea has got the AM roll seen up) 

So Perth were lucky? 

Glory played a 3-4-2-1 so no wing backs there either. 

Popovic identified weight loss and increased fitness levels needed by Davidson for the relentless running he faces as a wing back in the new Glory style.So he hit the gym and dropped 5kg.“The boss says there’s always places to improve and that’s one of the areas he identified from the start,” said Davidson, who is hoping to add to his 22 Socceroo appearances.“I’m feeling amazing for it. I feel lighter, stronger, fitter.”The Popovic style with three central defenders and two wing-backs gives Davidson freedom to go forward.“I’m loving the formation,” Davidson said.“It gives us licence to go forward in attack, knowing we still have three central defenders behind us if something breaks down.“I’ve played that formation in Europe. If you get it right it can really work for you but you need the right players for the style and we have them.“You can see it how well it is happening. Teams are finding it hard to identify a way to break it down.”Davidson said 

www.perthnow.com.au/sport/perth-glory/national-hope-for-davidson-ng-b881030851z.amp

Perth absolutely played with wing backs or are you saying Davidson and Franjic can now change their resume to midfielder? Also, can you find me some evidence that wingbacks are prone to injury, this is something sports scientists have obviously overlooked. We need to outlaw the wing back.

Wingbacks sit between the three defenders (normally three CBs) and the midfield. it looks and feels more like 5 at the back with the two wide backs being given probably the most physically demanding role on the pitch and having to defend and attack in equal measures but typically, they’re not given any midfield duties. 

3-5-2, which is the expected Fowler formation although we still don’t know, started out with wingbacks in the 1980’s and had the classic three CBs and two wide defenders/attackers. 

The counter to this was rapid transition on turnover with a counter attack being directed down which ever flank was exposed because the wingback was advanced up the field. What was found is the ball could move quicker than the wo/man and the back 3 CBs were exposed, dragged out of shape, and ineffective. 

This is what Aloisi tried at Perry Park when they lost 1-5 to Victory, victory again and again came down the wings and were often unopposed in loads of space. 

So the 3-5-2 was evolved. The back 3 changed from 3 CBs to a single CB who typically sits slightly deeper than the two other defenders a right back and a left back. These operated as a unit and they are asked to stay together as a unit never more than 10m to 15m apart. 

Operating as a single defensive unit these three normally operate in a 20-50m range across the pitch and move left to right in response to attacks, they will compress on to either wing when defending (when teams play this defensive pattern you’ll often hear the defending keeper shout SLIDE SLIDE giving birth to the Sliding Defence ... the attacking side keeper can often be heard bellowing SWITCH SWITCH in response, directing the attack to the gap behind the sliding back 3). 

In this set up wingbacks became futile because they arrived back in defence to find the back 3 had it covered and the defensive short fall was on the opposite side of the pitch as the back 3 slid across leaving space on the far side. 

So the wingback role was changed to that of a midfielder and 2 out of the 3 central mids were assigned defensive duties instead. This is often referred to as playing with “Dual 6’s). 

These two 6’s would step back in to the defence as it slides across making a back 4 or 5 in effect.

looking at our squad so far I recon this would be Pepper and Mauk, with Pepper in the true holding midfielder role and Mauk playing slightly more advanced. 

The remaining three midfielders are assigned midfield and attacking duties, and help in defence as need be but only as normal midfielders. In this interpretation the wingback has evaporated.

Holloway has probably been signed to fulfill one of these side roles imo, although neither DWH or O’Donovan are classic strikers for a 3-5-2 so maybe Holloway is the second striker.

One of the classic signs signs of an effective 3-5-2  is the presence of multiple goal scorers and not one heading scorer. It wouldn’t surprise me to see O’Shea be top scorer next season not ROD. 

Theres plenty of room for coaches to interpret formations and apply them apply them their own way, everything I have read coming out of the English FA and UEFA this past 5 years has been the death of wingbacks - Fowler is out if that system and it would be unusual for him to go against it. But he might. 

If a defender like Ike franjic is assigned to play a midfield role then he’s not a wingback, he’s a midfielder. 

Its a hard discussion without white board or players players running around in front of us. If you have a TD at your kids junior club but him a coffee and ask him to explain 3-5-2, 3-4-3 and wingbacks. Probably the most interesting tactical discussion in football. 

For Roar we probably need a couple more signings to guess what they’re doing. Although we might see in two weeks time. 

(If there’s typos in here i’ll correct them later, gotta Head out for brekkie) 

I played in a U16 team  and we played a 352 (20 years ago so this aint new or revolutionary) .  I think it is great formation if you expect to have a little more possession and you expect the opposition to sit deep.  

When the ball is lost it has to be won back quickly to ensure you are not short  at the back.  the benefit is you aren't  running wing backs into the ground expecting them to be attacking and defending, instead one of the 6's can just drop into the back line if needed as you "slide" like mentioned above.  you can use the shape to set up good passing lanes (triangles right down the field is what our coach use to say).  I think this system would suffer if we also tried to play a high line..  the opponents would look to drop ball in behind and out wide is where the Fullback would usually be in a 4 at the back, so setting up a bit deeper is a a safe option.

sure Mauk is a number 6 though..  in fact we might not have the required skill set to fill the two 6 roles currently and that might need to be addressed via recruitment (Mells would fit there but not convinced on him yet). 

Interesting discussion for a novice on the various formations, thanks. Looking forward ot the season. It seems that RF has a plan. Glad Pepper seems to have moved forward into the midfield by your assessments.

"Football is all about opinions", which is a good thing. Quoted from Tim Cahill. 

Variations on structures of teams will always differ with the coachs ideas and players at his disposal. But Perth played with wingbacks in my Opinion and apparently Davidsons opinion also. 

And IMO is essentially a wide defender, (full back), who frequently goes high and forward on the flank to offer width and options in attack. I.E wing- back. 

Different coaches  of course will have an opinion how high and how often to suit the team and how they should link with the midfield or any other players . 

So Aldred has played all last season in a defensive five formation.
Gillesphey who appears to be the biggest gamble as a 23 yr old,with limited first team experience ,could be the biggest long term prospect.
He is left footed and prefers CB ,but can play LB.
 He went to Carlisle on loan from Newcastle and helped to take them on a 13 game unbeaten streak.
I cant find what formation he played in last season.But i did find some highlights on youtube for a year ago.
He looks very mobile ,comfident and comfortable on the ball.He has a good left foot ,long pass and one on one defending.
He even took a set piece and scored.
I think Aldred and him could be a good combination.

If Jack "brick foot" Hingert has made way for someone else who is better then notionally we've made progress.

I imagine given Hingert is still recovering, Neville will have that spot initially. Then it will be Hingert's job to earn it back if he can. 

Spot on. 

a wingback is “essentially a wide defender, (full back), who frequently goes high and forward on the flank to offer width and options in attack. I.E wing- back”

I’d agree with that. A characteristic of the wing back is that going forward in attack they overtake/overlap the midfield to offer that width, and in defence have to race past a retreating midfield to supplement the defensive effort. The key point being they are not in midfield. 

Drawing out the positions on a whiteboard the WBs are typically a line on their own in front of defence and behind midfield something like:

             GKR
     DEF DEF DEF
WB                      WB
      MID MID MID
          ATK ATK 

(not sure if that formatting held?)

Glory had:

         GKR
  DEF DEF DEF
MID MID MID MID
         TEN
      ATK ATK 

In glory’s version the role Franjic/Davidson played was no different to a wide right or left midfielder, even if they’re quoted as saying they’re wingbacks - a 2 man midfield is a rare event in football which is what glory would have been running with if they put WBs there. 

But maybe we’re at the point of trying to define what a Christian is - same religion but can be a whole heap of different shades? 

But back to Roar, assuming Fowler does go three at the back and 3-5-2 ... what we’re looking for is whether RF puts his defensive support out wide (“wingbacks”) or whether he puts it inside (“Dual 6’s).

the first manifestation of 3-5-2 had it out wide, the recent versions tend to have it inside. My bet is RF will go inside as it’s safer defensively  

No, a wingback is not the same as a left midfielder and Davidson did play as a wingback. 

Agree Waz.  Much of this argument turns on how one defines a wing back.  In my state league playing days I started out as full back who overlapped whenever possible in a 4 man defense.  One of the mids would drop back and cover me as soon as I went forward.   The left sided back did the same.  But I certainly never thought of myself as a midfielder (though that is where I ended up after two seasons).

The strategy was made very clear to me:  I was either heading for the byline to cross the ball, or going full tilt the other way to get back to the defence.  Midfield was no man's land for me.

i think the 352 we are talking about is more like 
RB - CB - LB
   DM - DM
RM - CAM- LM
    CF - CF

Waz i agree with your analysis of the two types of 3 at the back but the telling part (particularly with perth) is where you put the defensive cover. 

Perth typically had their defensive cover as the left and right 'wingback ' in Franjic and Davidson. they were the ones in their style of play that found themselves in the defensive lines covering. It was not Killkeny and definitely not Juande. Killkeny and Juande were definitely in the midfield lines and very rarely fell into the defensive line as cover. Also (i feel i bit like a nit picker here) but perth typically did not fall into either of your formations. Their attacking line was typically 2 behind a striker (though it was very fluid particularly when keogh did not start and they played castro up front like in the GF)

they were playing 

Chianase              Ikon              or                      castro                   ikon
               Castro                                                              Keogh

though next season with Bruno and Keogh i suspect they will play with 2 up front more often.

i dont know how we will set up but it is telling that Neville was Franjics back up at perth and very rearly was utilised at and of the back 3 positions. similarly i dont think Mauk has the right skill sets to play the defensive cover role (where he would end up in the defensive line covering). in fact the more i look at the players signed the less confident i am in the formation he will play. we dont seem to have the right players for any of the formations.
       
                           young
           McGing? Aldred  Gillesphie

Neville/hingert    Oneil    Mauk    Inman
                             Oshay
                 Roy                   Halloway

In that formation the 2 CM would be cover defence why would you have hingert/neville in the mid-field by waz's assessment they should be midfielders and getting forward and crossing is not in their repertoire. also McGing would be a big weak point in that formation. 442 sort of fits

                          young
Neville/hingert   Aldred  Gillesphie   Otoole
                           Mauk   Oneil       
            Oshea                              Inman        
                 Roy                   Halloway

we just seem to be missing a CB for 3 at the back to work in any of the formations because i dont think Hingert, neville or mcging really fit the CB role and if we are still running with bowles or pepper as starting CB's we are in trouble. 

Is there another thread on this site that has such good football discussions.  I think not 😁😁👏👏