Independent A league thread


Independent A league thread

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Blew.2
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Melbcityguy - 2 Jul 2019 8:40 AM
A-League clubs will invest in the competition as they plot to follow the lead of the English Premier League, which exploded after independence.

Football Federation Australia has run the A-League since 2005, but the clubs have the green light to take charge from August 1. Australia is following the EPL model. The 12 clubs — including expansion sides Western United and Macarthur Rams — will acquire stakes in the competition.

While stopping well short of the toxic negotiations between the English FA and Premier League clubs in 1992, which ended in the High Court, Sunday’s deadline day talks exceeded three hours after months of tense negotiations.

The W-League and national youth league, both of which require significant investment, will also be controlled by the A-League clubs, with an independent chairperson set to be appointed alongside 12 club representatives plus two representatives from FFA.

It marks a huge breakthrough after a two-year impasse, which was intertwined with the governance talks where FIFA threatened to intervene.

A-League clubs have vowed to invest in marketing and growing the competition, with key pillars of the independent league set to include:

FFA to retain a 20 per cent stake in the A-League;
A-League clubs to pay a minimum $4.5 million annual dividend to FFA;
FFA to receive 10 per cent of any new or existing A-League licenses that are bought;
FFA’s A-League staff to be deployed immediately.
Wanderers owner and chairman of the A-League umbrella group Paul Lederer said independence was a must.

“For the professional game in Australia, and indeed the game as a whole in our country, these recommendations are the foundations for a critically needed evolution and vitalisation,” Lederer said.

“Once executed they will create the environment for investment and associated opportunities that we all want to see. The 12 member clubs are focused on completing the process and committed to investing in and delivering the elevation of all three of our national professional leagues to the status they deserve and the levels that all of the stakeholders of our game rightfully expect.”

FFA chairman Chris Nikou believes that this will unite Australia’s fractured football community.

“The recommendations of the New League Working Group serve to align and unite Australian football’s interests like never before,’’ Nikou said.

“Clubs would have greater control, triggering significant new investment in the quality and marketing of all three leagues and FFA would be able to focus its energies and resources on the national teams, grassroots and the overall strategic direction of the game.”

The 12  A-league clubs will share 80% of the Stake
FFA to retain a 20 per cent stake in the A-League
Should "FFA’s A-League staff to be deployed immediately." read re-deployed ? 

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bluebird - 1 Jul 2019 5:25 PM
Midfielder - 1 Jul 2019 5:16 PM

But every thing is still done with a cringe worthy touch

For example - 10% of transfer fees to go to the FFA. Its ridiculous and probably unprecedented anywhere in the world in our code

Everything we have asked for is going to be delivered, but not in the way we asked for it to be delivered. Its the how thats important, not the what

The EFL manual includes a clause stating that a percentage of the transfer fee or compensation payment needs to be paid to the EFL before a transfer can be registered.  I'm not sure how universal this is but I would be surprised if it wasn't the norm.  The percentage isn't stated in the manual and it doesn't limit it to international transfers but the principle is there.
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Midfielder - 1 Jul 2019 11:20 PM
bluebird - 1 Jul 2019 5:25 PM

BB you said "" For example - 10% of transfer fees to go to the FFA. Its ridiculous and probably unprecedented anywhere in the world in our code""" ... mate thats simply not true most professional leagues support in some way their governing body in Germany I think a % of all Div 1,2 & 3 revenue is  paid to the national body, in England the EPl pay some kind of fee... I don't see how people can think given we play a national game even seven days that FFA is cheap to run and how 7 of the 9 and until recently 8 of the 9 national teams loose money ... add other stuff you want FFA to do...

That may be the case but its contradictory to the salary cap

It basically means a non marquee player has no value or earning capacity until they go overseas, and then they will be lining the pockets of the organisation that denied them an income

It also means clubs might deny players a transfer because of the 10% levy, in the same way the $250,000 levy discouraged clubs from playing internationals against all but the most profitable teams

This is purely a commercial decision as the FFA continue to look at ways to exploit the top % of the game while ignoring the implications it has on the non profitable parts

The game is at a stage where owner investment is equal to or greater than the TV deal, and arguably the worth of the game. I dont think owners have a problem with investing, but they do have a problem with others reaping what little fruits they manage to grow

The FFA should get a flat 10% of revenue made by the independent body (TV deal, sponsorship, etc...). Clubs should get 100% of gate keepings (including finals), player transfers, and everything else they earn

If the money coming into the game isnt sustainable then they should stop stifling the biggest clubs




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Barca4Life - 2 Jul 2019 6:54 AM
So is the 9th of August the offical start of the independent era or does it start now, also when does the draw come out? 

I was thinking about this earlier... What is happening to the TV rights? The draw can't be released until that has been resolved. If the talk is true that ch 10 wanna buy 2 games and want specific timeslots, then it might delay the releasing of the draw. That is unless a deal has already been reached?  
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Burztur - 2 Jul 2019 8:01 AM
433 - 1 Jul 2019 12:26 PM

This.

I haven’t gone through everything but it looks like they have agreed for the FFAs cut and a way to move on. Now with the Nix in, we should double down and get Auckland in to pump the competition to 16 teams.

We had Auckland in the NSL. It failed dismally. Phoenix are pretty dismal themselves, so it's incredible that we now have people pushing for more NZ teams. It would be a disaster for the league. 

It's like the football community  is living in some strange bubble unaffected by workaday economic realities. So many people now expecting an influx of funds from nowhere. So fucking naive. 

Personally, I can't see how the a league survives under the new model. There is nowhere near enough money laying around to make it work like you're all imagining. Clubs like CCM and Jets will be the first to go. I hope I'm wrong, but I know I'm not. 

Then again, the league was dying under the old model too, so I guess we had to try something different. This will probably just accelerate the fall. 
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Derider - 2 Jul 2019 11:30 AM
Burztur - 2 Jul 2019 8:01 AM

We had Auckland in the NSL. It failed dismally. Phoenix are pretty dismal themselves, so it's incredible that we now have people pushing for more NZ teams. It would be a disaster for the league. 

It's like the football community  is living in some strange bubble unaffected by workaday economic realities. So many people now expecting an influx of funds from nowhere. So fucking naive. 

Personally, I can't see how the a league survives under the new model. There is nowhere near enough money laying around to make it work like you're all imagining. Clubs like CCM and Jets will be the first to go. I hope I'm wrong, but I know I'm not. 

Then again, the league was dying under the old model too, so I guess we had to try something different. This will probably just accelerate the fall. 

My view is either nix out or double down. If nix stay then we gotta push for another NZ team.
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Burztur - 2 Jul 2019 11:33 AM
My view is either nix out or double down. If nix stay then we gotta push for another NZ team.

Nix out for mine. I know this always rubs a few noses out of joint, but when Pro/Rel comes the Nix and CCM will be wollowing near the bottom of the second tier in a short period of time. 
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Feed_The_Brox - 2 Jul 2019 11:49 AM
Burztur - 2 Jul 2019 11:33 AM

Nix out for mine. I know this always rubs a few noses out of joint, but when Pro/Rel comes the Nix and CCM will be wollowing near the bottom of the second tier in a short period of time. 

+1 
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Feed_The_Brox - 2 Jul 2019 11:49 AM
Burztur - 2 Jul 2019 11:33 AM

Nix and CCM will be wollowing near the bottom of the second tier in a short period of time. 

They are more likely to fold before that happens now that there's no administrative body to bail them out during the tough times. There will be absolutely no incentive to invest in those teams. Especially CCM, who look completely unviable under this model. In fact, regional teams are even less viable now than under the FFA. It's very difficult to see any regional team ever making any money for their owners. 
Edited
6 Years Ago by Derider
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Feed_The_Brox - 2 Jul 2019 11:49 AM
Burztur - 2 Jul 2019 11:33 AM

Nix out for mine. I know this always rubs a few noses out of joint, but when Pro/Rel comes the Nix and CCM will be wollowing near the bottom of the second tier in a short period of time. 

I'm not so convinced about that. I think once the cloud of uncertain future is removed from the Nix, we could see them become a much more competitive side. I have far more confidence in the Nix becoming a quality side than CCM changing their ways. CCM have Div 2 written all over them.
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from what i have read the wellington owners seem pretty attached to the club 
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If the Nix got relegated, it would add massive cost constraints to a second division. Having to fly to NZ. Have to keep costs down as it stands
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Derider - 2 Jul 2019 11:56 AM
Feed_The_Brox - 2 Jul 2019 11:49 AM

They are more likely to fold before that happens now that there's no administrative body to bail them out during the tough times. There will be absolutely no incentive to invest in those teams. Especially CCM, who look completely unviable under this model. In fact, regional teams are even less viable now than under the FFA. It's very difficult to see any regional team ever making any money for their owners. 

Newcastle Knights make money. All the Jets have to do is be successful while not breaking the bank and they'll hover around break-even/slight profit. 

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Roar and CCM are pretty much Div2 standard atm,No one will be there anymore to bail them out so they might have go to state league for survival.

Wellington Phoenix FC

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kaufusi - 2 Jul 2019 12:06 PM
If the Nix got relegated, it would add massive cost constraints to a second division. Having to fly to NZ. Have to keep costs down as it stands

Which is why they need to be booted ASAP.


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nomates - 2 Jul 2019 1:57 PM
Roar and CCM are pretty much Div2 standard atm,No one will be there anymore to bail them out so they might have go to state league for survival.

Not entirely accurate. If you look at the NLWG white paper, one of the recommendations was to create a 'sinking' fund for just that purpose. Whether that fund will be as much a safety net as the FFA have been is unclear, but clubs will have some sort of 'bail-out' system available.

16. The League will also create a dedicated sinking fund to provide additional security to participating clubs facing financial difficulties.

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marconi101 - 2 Jul 2019 12:39 PM
Derider - 2 Jul 2019 11:56 AM

Newcastle Knights make money. 

The rugby league team? I was talking about football, which has nowhere near the level of entrenched mainstream cultural support as NRL. And even in NRL, a mid-sized city like Wollongong was ajudged not big enough to have a team of its own, so I'm not sure we should follow the NRL's regional model. It's basically the same as the FFA model, except the FFA will no longer be around to provide a lifeline to struggling clubs. 

The fear is that we will see the demise of all but a few top Sydney and Melbourne clubs, which will bring the viability of a pro league in Oz into question once again. Unless there really are all these magical benevolent investors waiting in the wings to plow serious money into the league. I suppose anything is possible, though I wouldn't be putting as much faith in the generosity of club owners as you guys seem to be. 
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Munrubenmuz - 2 Jul 2019 2:14 PM
kaufusi - 2 Jul 2019 12:06 PM

Which is why they need to be booted ASAP.

The Nix own part of the league now, not going anywhere.

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Munrubenmuz - 2 Jul 2019 2:14 PM
kaufusi - 2 Jul 2019 12:06 PM

Which is why they need to be booted ASAP.

So any A-League  team that gets relegated (If and when it arrives) just writes off their historical investment in the league,  the % value they own of the leagues value and the team coming up gets in for free.
You got to be joking! 

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RyanM - 2 Jul 2019 2:34 PM
Munrubenmuz - 2 Jul 2019 2:14 PM

The Nix own part of the league now, not going anywhere.

But what if they got relegated?!
It's not financially viable to have them in the second div.
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kaufusi - 2 Jul 2019 3:32 PM
RyanM - 2 Jul 2019 2:34 PM

But what if they got relegated?!
It's not financially viable to have them in the second div.

Will the 2nd division be able to buy out any A-league team that is in the relegation zone?

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kaufusi - 2 Jul 2019 3:32 PM
RyanM - 2 Jul 2019 2:34 PM

But what if they got relegated?!
It's not financially viable to have them in the second div.

There won't be a second division in the foreseeable future. 
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In the EPL model the promoted team takes over the share ownership of the relegated club. Not that we’re there yet but given we are following the EPL model that’s probably how they’ll handle it here. 
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Waz - 2 Jul 2019 3:39 PM
In the EPL model the promoted team takes over the share ownership of the relegated club. Not that we’re there yet but given we are following the EPL model that’s probably how they’ll handle it here. 

Yeah I thought this was obvious how it would work.
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Derider - 2 Jul 2019 11:56 AM
Feed_The_Brox - 2 Jul 2019 11:49 AM

They are more likely to fold before that happens now that there's no administrative body to bail them out during the tough times. There will be absolutely no incentive to invest in those teams. Especially CCM, who look completely unviable under this model. In fact, regional teams are even less viable now than under the FFA. It's very difficult to see any regional team ever making any money for their owners. 

Please tell me when the Phoenix were bailed out by the FFA? The opposite is true. We've got owners who stuck with us through absolute hell - can't say the same about any club.
Reckon people underrate that kind of loyalty in a league where owners are losing money hand over fist.
Edited
6 Years Ago by A.Haak
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kaufusi - 2 Jul 2019 3:32 PM
RyanM - 2 Jul 2019 2:34 PM

But what if they got relegated?!
It's not financially viable to have them in the second div.


Newflash: pro/rel in a traditional sense will not exist in Australia for at least 5-10 years. A second division will be established, and then when considered stable enough pro/rel will *maybe* be implemented. For teams to get promoted, they will likely have to hit a range of requirements in terms of stadia, investment, facilities etc.

It's not financially viable for ANY current A-League team to drop down.
Edited
6 Years Ago by A.Haak
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Waz - 2 Jul 2019 3:39 PM
In the EPL model the promoted team takes over the share ownership of the relegated club. Not that we’re there yet but given we are following the EPL model that’s probably how they’ll handle it here. 

EPL:  and guaranteed parachute payments for two seasons . For the team relegated

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Edited
6 Years Ago by Blew.2
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So the A-League clubs now command the majority of the money and many here think the game overall will prosper lol.

Whilst it’s good to see the new governance continue to evolve what was partly initiated by the old Board, I can see a ratling gun of hands slapping a multitude of faces coming right up.

In a resort somewhere

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Melbcityguy - 2 Jul 2019 11:58 AM
from what i have read the wellington owners seem pretty attached to the club 

if the nix or any other nz team gets relegated, and were to go to the 2nd division (which they shouldnt), they surely would have to contribute to the extra costs to the league.
there is no way a 2nd div team or league from australia should have to pay for costs to travel to nz.
if they want in to the oz pyramid, they (or nz fa) should pay for it.



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paulc - 2 Jul 2019 4:45 PM
So the A-League clubs now command the majority of the money and many here think the game overall will prosper lol.Whilst it’s good to see the new governance continue to evolve what was partly initiated by the old Board, I can see a ratling gun of hands slapping a multitude of faces coming right up.

There’s two simple reasons why this makes sense. 

The first is cost - the FFA overpay for everything including Gallop and O’Rourke’s salary, office rent, consultants, admin staff, marketing, and a lot more. That money will now go in to the 12 HAL clubs. 

The second is revenue - clubs can now brand merchandise, beer, coffee shops, Leagues (social) clubs and make money. Football is do underdone here it’s not true. 
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