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crimsoncrusoe
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+x+x+xFor me one of the most frustrating things about how Roar play is the inability for fast counterattacks. Surely every team knows that a turnover with the defence out of position is one of the best opportunities to score? Is this because of a defensive mindset by the coach? How hard is it for two or three players to be set for a fast break? Opportunities are there all the time and time and again noone is in position or its a long ball with low odds or a player stops and passes backwards. Can anyone explain whats going on? This is only my guess but it goes along these lines: 1/ The coach has them set up to not counter attack quickly. While it’s an attractive proposition it’s also risky if the Ball is turned over in transition and you find players have left gaps your opponents exploit. So I’m guessing a “safety first” play by Fowler has them cagey going forward.
2/ Until MacDonalds arrival they didn’t have that holding 9 role. That was RODs downfall, he could only play forward and off the shoulder of the defender (it’s also DWHs biggest limitation). The holding 9 is the primary outlet in transition from defence to attack in a 3-5-2.
3/ I’d also say Roar lack pace in the two wide Mids/wing backs and the 10/8 positions - Brown, Hingert, Inman and O’Shea aren’t slow but none of them have pace to burn. That means rapid counter attacks have to be made with ball against feet and swift passing, not with running - which is the pattern we are seeing developing with these “triangles” of passing There is no doubt Roar lack pace.But i dont see it as that hard to get three players to break fast and have the defensive 7 close in behind to avoid a counter counterattack. Remember the attack is outpacing big slow defenders most of the time ,that have to turn and chase. Someone breaking on the wing and two backing up centrally could cause serious havoc.Even with moderate pace. ps .... Never miss an opportunity to put the boot in.Lol I should start a DWH troll counter.Like he is the worst player for Roar.Lol
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Keeper66
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA couple of points about how we play... Our first half is intentionally and deliberately defensive. Comments about being outclassed and boring fail to take into account that the team is working hard not to concede in the first half. Guys - get used to it and applaud when they succeed. We failed this time against Perth and they scored in the first half - but not by being outclassed for the half. Second half and Robbie switched to the attacking phase of the 90 minutes. He would have done that even if we weren't a goal down - but swapping a back for a forward rather than just refreshing the front line was the concession to being a goal down and gambling on our backs holding - which they did. You can't compare our first halves to other teams and say we were weak because our attack was poor or non-existent when our actual goal in the first half is to be solid at the back and not necessarily to score - that is just a bonus that all of us Roar fans and Robbie himself would like to happen more often no doubt. To exaggerate the situation, it would be like saying we were outclassed in the first half because our keeper did not score. We play two halves of football - people need to consider that when they look at how we start games and how we finish them. Of particular note was Scotty Mac's involvement. FMD - when you actually watch him you can see his quality, experience, class and impact. He drifts into a space where we are sticking and simply redirects the play where it should be going. Then he drifts to the next place before most players are even aware there is something to be done there. I paid as much attention to him at Redcliffe as I could spare and I was really impressed with how he just made things work. Love it. Reminds me a bit of How Craig Moore used to come out of the line when he knew something could be developing and because of his vision and mere presence the situation never became dangerous. If the strategy was parking the bus for the first half then why don't we have the capability to counter attack with speed or any resemblance of effectiveness? Shouldn't that be the complete strategy rather than remaining sterile for half a game? So where has it gone wrong? It is as Waz said to some extent. Robbie was counting on ROD and our other forwards to be able to score goals on their own - basically expecting 3 players to create and score at least one every game while the other 7 stopped the opposition scoring any. The history of our club conceding goals somewhat forced Robbie to start with maybe 7 playing defensive and 3 in attack for the first half of every game, then switching another two forward from halftime. His recruitment was not shit. Robbie determined that we needed a capable striker and he thought ROD would be that. ROD did not come through for us. It means something about ROD or our setup just did not work. The recruitment was still OK - just some of the players did not work out. You can say "if we had signed someone like Berisha he would have been scoring" but we actually don't know that - just we assume it along the same lines that Robbie assumed ROD would be able to score for us. I have no problem at all with Robbie's recruitment strategy and I think he did a bloody good job with most players in most positions. He chose the right combinations of players for positions and for the effective style he has in place. No-one can guarantee a player will work out - does not make the recruitment suspect - just sometimes things don't work out. I have not seen a lot saying that the owners got it right appointing Robbie by the way - certainly a lot saying Robbie is proving himself, but where are the people saying those who appointed Robbie were idiots and mindless? To say "I was wrong about Robbie as a coach" is not going as far as saying "I was wrong when I bagged the Roar owners and management for being unable to see what a loser Robbie is". Like Brisbanegossip, I have been enjoying this season and our progress. You all know I have lived this team from pre-season and seen the improvements and potential as much greater than the results on each game day. I too am now going into games expecting wins, and I line up with those funny people who felt disappointed only taking 1 point out of the Glory game. @paulc To answer your question on where it has gone wrong from my perspective - it hasn't. We are getting better at our transitional play. We were always dangerous without punishing in the first half of the season's games. We are combining much better now, and were we to start the season now playing like we are (acknowledging that other teams have improved too) we would have won some of the close ones and be better placed on the table now. Even excluding the impact that Scotty Mac has had and adding ROD back in we would have done better back then playing like we are now. Time is the factor that you are not allowing the team when you label recruitment poor and they have needed that. Looking forward within this season, to stem the bleeding from your eyes I can only hope that the transitional play and combinations continue to improve (they will) to the extent that the first half becomes as strong on the counter as they are at holding (maybe they will) - and I think that is Robbie's goal too. He was as disappointed at our first half lack of scoring as the rest of us if you remember. The recruitment has not worked because he has contracted players lacking - considerable ball control, skill, imagination, improvisation, quick thinking, game reading, flair, etc. Their game and game execution has been mostly hampered by the lack of some or all of these essential qualities a good football team must have to entertain and / or succeed. Instead he bought in players that contribute to sterile and unadventurous games that can in no way be deemed a success, but is clearly ugly and mediocre a best. RF has done well with what he has, but it feels like congratulating a firebug for putting out his own fire. Pretty much agree with all this. The other way I look at it is - how many of the Roar players would fans from other teams be interested in seeing as a first choice player at their own club? Not many, I suspect (apart from maybe CCM fans). lol How many fans of other clubs would take players capable of one defeat in nine games?
I would have thought A LOT OF THEM 😂
One of the lessons coming out of this is “fans” can’t be trusted in assessing players (remember how many said Victory would do really well this season, or that Roar would struggle?) so lets not use “fans” as some form of validation on a players ability
That's fine, your opinion is a lot, my opinion is not many, despite Brisbane being on a good run of results. I can't see the link in the reasoning that because some fans may not have picked how some individual teams would fare this season, this means that fans can't assess the ability of individual players. I think a lot of fans are quite capable of doing that. Most will not be highly qualified coaches, but that doesn't mean they are incapable of rating the ability of professional players in comparison to other professional players. Sure it does.
You wouldn’t walk in to the Doctors and tell him how to do his job would you?
Without knowing the various stats that aren’t public knowledge (e.g. do you know how many km’s Jay O’Shea covers in a game? or how fast he accelerates, or his reaction time, or what his aerobic recovery time is, or whether his strength is maintained beyond 60 minutes or declines??) and how they compare to other players - It’s impossible to know and therefore impossible to make an objective comparison.
Then there’s the contrast in team instructions and instructions to individual players - these can make players look better/worse than they are and without knowing what they are it’s impossible to asses.
coaches would know much of that and would have the training and expertise to interpret what they dont know from observation.
I’m all for fans having an opinion, I have them myself, but let’s not pretend there’s any weight or credibility assigned to them when it comes to evaluating players - look at the arguments over Ronaldo and Messi and who’s best.
If there were any credibility then surely this site would be evidence of that? Passionate and dedicated football fans aplenty - and yet few can predict with any certainty who will be good and who won’t
Looking at the hits and misses of A League imports over the years, you could argue that this also applies to coaches/club recruiters as well :)
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WSF
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You don't need to be a coach to know when a player is shit.
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Waz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA couple of points about how we play... Our first half is intentionally and deliberately defensive. Comments about being outclassed and boring fail to take into account that the team is working hard not to concede in the first half. Guys - get used to it and applaud when they succeed. We failed this time against Perth and they scored in the first half - but not by being outclassed for the half. Second half and Robbie switched to the attacking phase of the 90 minutes. He would have done that even if we weren't a goal down - but swapping a back for a forward rather than just refreshing the front line was the concession to being a goal down and gambling on our backs holding - which they did. You can't compare our first halves to other teams and say we were weak because our attack was poor or non-existent when our actual goal in the first half is to be solid at the back and not necessarily to score - that is just a bonus that all of us Roar fans and Robbie himself would like to happen more often no doubt. To exaggerate the situation, it would be like saying we were outclassed in the first half because our keeper did not score. We play two halves of football - people need to consider that when they look at how we start games and how we finish them. Of particular note was Scotty Mac's involvement. FMD - when you actually watch him you can see his quality, experience, class and impact. He drifts into a space where we are sticking and simply redirects the play where it should be going. Then he drifts to the next place before most players are even aware there is something to be done there. I paid as much attention to him at Redcliffe as I could spare and I was really impressed with how he just made things work. Love it. Reminds me a bit of How Craig Moore used to come out of the line when he knew something could be developing and because of his vision and mere presence the situation never became dangerous. If the strategy was parking the bus for the first half then why don't we have the capability to counter attack with speed or any resemblance of effectiveness? Shouldn't that be the complete strategy rather than remaining sterile for half a game? So where has it gone wrong? It is as Waz said to some extent. Robbie was counting on ROD and our other forwards to be able to score goals on their own - basically expecting 3 players to create and score at least one every game while the other 7 stopped the opposition scoring any. The history of our club conceding goals somewhat forced Robbie to start with maybe 7 playing defensive and 3 in attack for the first half of every game, then switching another two forward from halftime. His recruitment was not shit. Robbie determined that we needed a capable striker and he thought ROD would be that. ROD did not come through for us. It means something about ROD or our setup just did not work. The recruitment was still OK - just some of the players did not work out. You can say "if we had signed someone like Berisha he would have been scoring" but we actually don't know that - just we assume it along the same lines that Robbie assumed ROD would be able to score for us. I have no problem at all with Robbie's recruitment strategy and I think he did a bloody good job with most players in most positions. He chose the right combinations of players for positions and for the effective style he has in place. No-one can guarantee a player will work out - does not make the recruitment suspect - just sometimes things don't work out. I have not seen a lot saying that the owners got it right appointing Robbie by the way - certainly a lot saying Robbie is proving himself, but where are the people saying those who appointed Robbie were idiots and mindless? To say "I was wrong about Robbie as a coach" is not going as far as saying "I was wrong when I bagged the Roar owners and management for being unable to see what a loser Robbie is". Like Brisbanegossip, I have been enjoying this season and our progress. You all know I have lived this team from pre-season and seen the improvements and potential as much greater than the results on each game day. I too am now going into games expecting wins, and I line up with those funny people who felt disappointed only taking 1 point out of the Glory game. @paulc To answer your question on where it has gone wrong from my perspective - it hasn't. We are getting better at our transitional play. We were always dangerous without punishing in the first half of the season's games. We are combining much better now, and were we to start the season now playing like we are (acknowledging that other teams have improved too) we would have won some of the close ones and be better placed on the table now. Even excluding the impact that Scotty Mac has had and adding ROD back in we would have done better back then playing like we are now. Time is the factor that you are not allowing the team when you label recruitment poor and they have needed that. Looking forward within this season, to stem the bleeding from your eyes I can only hope that the transitional play and combinations continue to improve (they will) to the extent that the first half becomes as strong on the counter as they are at holding (maybe they will) - and I think that is Robbie's goal too. He was as disappointed at our first half lack of scoring as the rest of us if you remember. The recruitment has not worked because he has contracted players lacking - considerable ball control, skill, imagination, improvisation, quick thinking, game reading, flair, etc. Their game and game execution has been mostly hampered by the lack of some or all of these essential qualities a good football team must have to entertain and / or succeed. Instead he bought in players that contribute to sterile and unadventurous games that can in no way be deemed a success, but is clearly ugly and mediocre a best. RF has done well with what he has, but it feels like congratulating a firebug for putting out his own fire. Pretty much agree with all this. The other way I look at it is - how many of the Roar players would fans from other teams be interested in seeing as a first choice player at their own club? Not many, I suspect (apart from maybe CCM fans). lol How many fans of other clubs would take players capable of one defeat in nine games?
I would have thought A LOT OF THEM 😂
One of the lessons coming out of this is “fans” can’t be trusted in assessing players (remember how many said Victory would do really well this season, or that Roar would struggle?) so lets not use “fans” as some form of validation on a players ability
That's fine, your opinion is a lot, my opinion is not many, despite Brisbane being on a good run of results. I can't see the link in the reasoning that because some fans may not have picked how some individual teams would fare this season, this means that fans can't assess the ability of individual players. I think a lot of fans are quite capable of doing that. Most will not be highly qualified coaches, but that doesn't mean they are incapable of rating the ability of professional players in comparison to other professional players. Sure it does.
You wouldn’t walk in to the Doctors and tell him how to do his job would you?
Without knowing the various stats that aren’t public knowledge (e.g. do you know how many km’s Jay O’Shea covers in a game? or how fast he accelerates, or his reaction time, or what his aerobic recovery time is, or whether his strength is maintained beyond 60 minutes or declines??) and how they compare to other players - It’s impossible to know and therefore impossible to make an objective comparison.
Then there’s the contrast in team instructions and instructions to individual players - these can make players look better/worse than they are and without knowing what they are it’s impossible to asses.
coaches would know much of that and would have the training and expertise to interpret what they dont know from observation.
I’m all for fans having an opinion, I have them myself, but let’s not pretend there’s any weight or credibility assigned to them when it comes to evaluating players - look at the arguments over Ronaldo and Messi and who’s best.
If there were any credibility then surely this site would be evidence of that? Passionate and dedicated football fans aplenty - and yet few can predict with any certainty who will be good and who won’t
Looking at the hits and misses of A League imports over the years, you could argue that this also applies to coaches/club recruiters as well :) I’d agree on that.
I remember when Roar signed Berishas replacement on the basis of a DVD showcase ... that and he came from the same region as Bes.
Fans do have good eyes for players, I just think we all struggle with objectivity.
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Roar in me Blood
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.8K,
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+x+x+x+x+xA couple of points about how we play... Our first half is intentionally and deliberately defensive. Comments about being outclassed and boring fail to take into account that the team is working hard not to concede in the first half. Guys - get used to it and applaud when they succeed. We failed this time against Perth and they scored in the first half - but not by being outclassed for the half. Second half and Robbie switched to the attacking phase of the 90 minutes. He would have done that even if we weren't a goal down - but swapping a back for a forward rather than just refreshing the front line was the concession to being a goal down and gambling on our backs holding - which they did. You can't compare our first halves to other teams and say we were weak because our attack was poor or non-existent when our actual goal in the first half is to be solid at the back and not necessarily to score - that is just a bonus that all of us Roar fans and Robbie himself would like to happen more often no doubt. To exaggerate the situation, it would be like saying we were outclassed in the first half because our keeper did not score. We play two halves of football - people need to consider that when they look at how we start games and how we finish them. Of particular note was Scotty Mac's involvement. FMD - when you actually watch him you can see his quality, experience, class and impact. He drifts into a space where we are sticking and simply redirects the play where it should be going. Then he drifts to the next place before most players are even aware there is something to be done there. I paid as much attention to him at Redcliffe as I could spare and I was really impressed with how he just made things work. Love it. Reminds me a bit of How Craig Moore used to come out of the line when he knew something could be developing and because of his vision and mere presence the situation never became dangerous. If the strategy was parking the bus for the first half then why don't we have the capability to counter attack with speed or any resemblance of effectiveness? Shouldn't that be the complete strategy rather than remaining sterile for half a game? So where has it gone wrong? It is as Waz said to some extent. Robbie was counting on ROD and our other forwards to be able to score goals on their own - basically expecting 3 players to create and score at least one every game while the other 7 stopped the opposition scoring any. The history of our club conceding goals somewhat forced Robbie to start with maybe 7 playing defensive and 3 in attack for the first half of every game, then switching another two forward from halftime. His recruitment was not shit. Robbie determined that we needed a capable striker and he thought ROD would be that. ROD did not come through for us. It means something about ROD or our setup just did not work. The recruitment was still OK - just some of the players did not work out. You can say "if we had signed someone like Berisha he would have been scoring" but we actually don't know that - just we assume it along the same lines that Robbie assumed ROD would be able to score for us. I have no problem at all with Robbie's recruitment strategy and I think he did a bloody good job with most players in most positions. He chose the right combinations of players for positions and for the effective style he has in place. No-one can guarantee a player will work out - does not make the recruitment suspect - just sometimes things don't work out. I have not seen a lot saying that the owners got it right appointing Robbie by the way - certainly a lot saying Robbie is proving himself, but where are the people saying those who appointed Robbie were idiots and mindless? To say "I was wrong about Robbie as a coach" is not going as far as saying "I was wrong when I bagged the Roar owners and management for being unable to see what a loser Robbie is". Like Brisbanegossip, I have been enjoying this season and our progress. You all know I have lived this team from pre-season and seen the improvements and potential as much greater than the results on each game day. I too am now going into games expecting wins, and I line up with those funny people who felt disappointed only taking 1 point out of the Glory game. @paulc To answer your question on where it has gone wrong from my perspective - it hasn't. We are getting better at our transitional play. We were always dangerous without punishing in the first half of the season's games. We are combining much better now, and were we to start the season now playing like we are (acknowledging that other teams have improved too) we would have won some of the close ones and be better placed on the table now. Even excluding the impact that Scotty Mac has had and adding ROD back in we would have done better back then playing like we are now. Time is the factor that you are not allowing the team when you label recruitment poor and they have needed that. Looking forward within this season, to stem the bleeding from your eyes I can only hope that the transitional play and combinations continue to improve (they will) to the extent that the first half becomes as strong on the counter as they are at holding (maybe they will) - and I think that is Robbie's goal too. He was as disappointed at our first half lack of scoring as the rest of us if you remember. The recruitment has not worked because he has contracted players lacking - considerable ball control, skill, imagination, improvisation, quick thinking, game reading, flair, etc. Their game and game execution has been mostly hampered by the lack of some or all of these essential qualities a good football team must have to entertain and / or succeed. Instead he bought in players that contribute to sterile and unadventurous games that can in no way be deemed a success, but is clearly ugly and mediocre a best. RF has done well with what he has, but it feels like congratulating a firebug for putting out his own fire. Pretty much agree with all this. The other way I look at it is - how many of the Roar players would fans from other teams be interested in seeing as a first choice player at their own club? Not many, I suspect (apart from maybe CCM fans). The question you actually pose then is whether we think every one of our players is worse than every other player in that position in the a-league (excluding CCM). I am sure that is not true without actually running through every team's players. Maybe I would be surprised after all. Some will say it is a damning indictment on our salary capped merry-go-round - but I would expect every player in the Roar starting lineup would get a contract with another club. Whether they then earned a starting spot or not would be up to them proving themselves to their respective gaffers in training. And I am sure several of them would. Gillesphey is looking better as time goes by. Aldred is a known quantity and solid; even better when he is co-ordinating a cohesive team round him. Hingert and Neville are known quantities with big engines. O'Neill will have eyes on him. O'Shea and Inman would certainly have eyes on them. DWH and Muratovic will have eyes on them as potential. Macca came from another club (but he was not an original find in Robbie's recruitment), ROD was and is another team's choice. D'Aggers may be a regular starter for another team. Corey and Pepper may not be a fans first choice but I would expect them to make at least the bench in some sides. The names may not come across as glamorous or marquee quality but they do not have to be since most players in teams aren't either. If you were building a team from scratch tomorrow with Roar players and everyone else currently available I suggest you would be mad not to have the Roar players as your main core and first choice. Nobody gets to build their team with the best of every team. The question would be then for every team, who is your weakest player and would the Roar player in that position be an improvement. That may be a line for a whole new thread discussion - who is your teams weakest player and who in the available market (plus Roar players ;) ) would you choose to strengthen it. From my experience fans will often prefer 'their own' players over another player who is slightly better. So perhaps fans are not the best judges in that sense. Still, I would be surprised if a few Roar players did not show up across a number of teams as a step up in their position.
When I wear their colours, I am the club.
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Keeper66
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+xA couple of points about how we play... Our first half is intentionally and deliberately defensive. Comments about being outclassed and boring fail to take into account that the team is working hard not to concede in the first half. Guys - get used to it and applaud when they succeed. We failed this time against Perth and they scored in the first half - but not by being outclassed for the half. Second half and Robbie switched to the attacking phase of the 90 minutes. He would have done that even if we weren't a goal down - but swapping a back for a forward rather than just refreshing the front line was the concession to being a goal down and gambling on our backs holding - which they did. You can't compare our first halves to other teams and say we were weak because our attack was poor or non-existent when our actual goal in the first half is to be solid at the back and not necessarily to score - that is just a bonus that all of us Roar fans and Robbie himself would like to happen more often no doubt. To exaggerate the situation, it would be like saying we were outclassed in the first half because our keeper did not score. We play two halves of football - people need to consider that when they look at how we start games and how we finish them. Of particular note was Scotty Mac's involvement. FMD - when you actually watch him you can see his quality, experience, class and impact. He drifts into a space where we are sticking and simply redirects the play where it should be going. Then he drifts to the next place before most players are even aware there is something to be done there. I paid as much attention to him at Redcliffe as I could spare and I was really impressed with how he just made things work. Love it. Reminds me a bit of How Craig Moore used to come out of the line when he knew something could be developing and because of his vision and mere presence the situation never became dangerous. If the strategy was parking the bus for the first half then why don't we have the capability to counter attack with speed or any resemblance of effectiveness? Shouldn't that be the complete strategy rather than remaining sterile for half a game? So where has it gone wrong? It is as Waz said to some extent. Robbie was counting on ROD and our other forwards to be able to score goals on their own - basically expecting 3 players to create and score at least one every game while the other 7 stopped the opposition scoring any. The history of our club conceding goals somewhat forced Robbie to start with maybe 7 playing defensive and 3 in attack for the first half of every game, then switching another two forward from halftime. His recruitment was not shit. Robbie determined that we needed a capable striker and he thought ROD would be that. ROD did not come through for us. It means something about ROD or our setup just did not work. The recruitment was still OK - just some of the players did not work out. You can say "if we had signed someone like Berisha he would have been scoring" but we actually don't know that - just we assume it along the same lines that Robbie assumed ROD would be able to score for us. I have no problem at all with Robbie's recruitment strategy and I think he did a bloody good job with most players in most positions. He chose the right combinations of players for positions and for the effective style he has in place. No-one can guarantee a player will work out - does not make the recruitment suspect - just sometimes things don't work out. I have not seen a lot saying that the owners got it right appointing Robbie by the way - certainly a lot saying Robbie is proving himself, but where are the people saying those who appointed Robbie were idiots and mindless? To say "I was wrong about Robbie as a coach" is not going as far as saying "I was wrong when I bagged the Roar owners and management for being unable to see what a loser Robbie is". Like Brisbanegossip, I have been enjoying this season and our progress. You all know I have lived this team from pre-season and seen the improvements and potential as much greater than the results on each game day. I too am now going into games expecting wins, and I line up with those funny people who felt disappointed only taking 1 point out of the Glory game. @paulc To answer your question on where it has gone wrong from my perspective - it hasn't. We are getting better at our transitional play. We were always dangerous without punishing in the first half of the season's games. We are combining much better now, and were we to start the season now playing like we are (acknowledging that other teams have improved too) we would have won some of the close ones and be better placed on the table now. Even excluding the impact that Scotty Mac has had and adding ROD back in we would have done better back then playing like we are now. Time is the factor that you are not allowing the team when you label recruitment poor and they have needed that. Looking forward within this season, to stem the bleeding from your eyes I can only hope that the transitional play and combinations continue to improve (they will) to the extent that the first half becomes as strong on the counter as they are at holding (maybe they will) - and I think that is Robbie's goal too. He was as disappointed at our first half lack of scoring as the rest of us if you remember. The recruitment has not worked because he has contracted players lacking - considerable ball control, skill, imagination, improvisation, quick thinking, game reading, flair, etc. Their game and game execution has been mostly hampered by the lack of some or all of these essential qualities a good football team must have to entertain and / or succeed. Instead he bought in players that contribute to sterile and unadventurous games that can in no way be deemed a success, but is clearly ugly and mediocre a best. RF has done well with what he has, but it feels like congratulating a firebug for putting out his own fire. Pretty much agree with all this. The other way I look at it is - how many of the Roar players would fans from other teams be interested in seeing as a first choice player at their own club? Not many, I suspect (apart from maybe CCM fans). The question you actually pose then is whether we think every one of our players is worse than every other player in that position in the a-league (excluding CCM). I am sure that is not true without actually running through every team's players. Maybe I would be surprised after all. Some will say it is a damning indictment on our salary capped merry-go-round - but I would expect every player in the Roar starting lineup would get a contract with another club. Whether they then earned a starting spot or not would be up to them proving themselves to their respective gaffers in training. And I am sure several of them would. Gillesphey is looking better as time goes by. Aldred is a known quantity and solid; even better when he is co-ordinating a cohesive team round him. Hingert and Neville are known quantities with big engines. O'Neill will have eyes on him. O'Shea and Inman would certainly have eyes on them. DWH and Muratovic will have eyes on them as potential. Macca came from another club (but he was not an original find in Robbie's recruitment), ROD was and is another team's choice. D'Aggers may be a regular starter for another team. Corey and Pepper may not be a fans first choice but I would expect them to make at least the bench in some sides. The names may not come across as glamorous or marquee quality but they do not have to be since most players in teams aren't either. If you were building a team from scratch tomorrow with Roar players and everyone else currently available I suggest you would be mad not to have the Roar players as your main core and first choice. Nobody gets to build their team with the best of every team. The question would be then for every team, who is your weakest player and would the Roar player in that position be an improvement. That may be a line for a whole new thread discussion - who is your teams weakest player and who in the available market (plus Roar players ;) ) would you choose to strengthen it. From my experience fans will often prefer 'their own' players over another player who is slightly better. So perhaps fans are not the best judges in that sense. Still, I would be surprised if a few Roar players did not show up across a number of teams as a step up in their position. I agree most, if not all, of the Roar first choice players would probably get a contract at most other AL clubs. To me, it's how many of them would likely to be in the first choice side of other clubs. And I agree that in the real world it depends on how they train, what system the team plays, the coach's likes/dislikes etc, but we don't know that unless they do go to another club. My question is about what people think now, based on what they see now. It would be interesting to hear what fans of other teams think. I suspect Young would definitely be one where fans of some AL teams would like to have him in their first choice side.
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paulc
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There is always a team that can use a lesser skilled player or 2 or even 3 that is tough, energetic, runs all day and is determined. But you can't have a team full them with those limited attributes. Roar is so out of balance at the moment that they have no chance of being a top side, let alone a title contender. Finger's crossed for next season as I believe Fowler is not stupid enough to make the same mistake twice.
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CS
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+xThere is always a team that can use a lesser skilled player or 2 or even 3 that is tough, energetic, runs all day and is determined. But you can't have a team full them with those limited attributes. Roar is so out of balance at the moment that they have no chance of being a top side, let alone a title contender. Finger's crossed for next season as I believe Fowler is not stupid enough to make the same mistake twice. Agree. He's created a sound foundation for next season and shown he can do the job.
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thekingmb
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+x+xThere is always a team that can use a lesser skilled player or 2 or even 3 that is tough, energetic, runs all day and is determined. But you can't have a team full them with those limited attributes. Roar is so out of balance at the moment that they have no chance of being a top side, let alone a title contender. Finger's crossed for next season as I believe Fowler is not stupid enough to make the same mistake twice. Agree. He's created a sound foundation for next season and shown he can do the job. Has he though? The team is in 6th playing average football, he also got to recruit half the team, including all foreigners which is ideal for any coach in this league. Talay has his team 4th with potentially lesser resources playing awesome football. RF has shown he has the balls to change things up at half time, and build a solid defence...other than that his done nothing. Its much easier to coach a team to defend compared to scoring goals/attacking.
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lastresort
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+x+x+x+x+x+xA couple of points about how we play... Our first half is intentionally and deliberately defensive. Comments about being outclassed and boring fail to take into account that the team is working hard not to concede in the first half. Guys - get used to it and applaud when they succeed. We failed this time against Perth and they scored in the first half - but not by being outclassed for the half. Second half and Robbie switched to the attacking phase of the 90 minutes. He would have done that even if we weren't a goal down - but swapping a back for a forward rather than just refreshing the front line was the concession to being a goal down and gambling on our backs holding - which they did. You can't compare our first halves to other teams and say we were weak because our attack was poor or non-existent when our actual goal in the first half is to be solid at the back and not necessarily to score - that is just a bonus that all of us Roar fans and Robbie himself would like to happen more often no doubt. To exaggerate the situation, it would be like saying we were outclassed in the first half because our keeper did not score. We play two halves of football - people need to consider that when they look at how we start games and how we finish them. Of particular note was Scotty Mac's involvement. FMD - when you actually watch him you can see his quality, experience, class and impact. He drifts into a space where we are sticking and simply redirects the play where it should be going. Then he drifts to the next place before most players are even aware there is something to be done there. I paid as much attention to him at Redcliffe as I could spare and I was really impressed with how he just made things work. Love it. Reminds me a bit of How Craig Moore used to come out of the line when he knew something could be developing and because of his vision and mere presence the situation never became dangerous. If the strategy was parking the bus for the first half then why don't we have the capability to counter attack with speed or any resemblance of effectiveness? Shouldn't that be the complete strategy rather than remaining sterile for half a game? So where has it gone wrong? It is as Waz said to some extent. Robbie was counting on ROD and our other forwards to be able to score goals on their own - basically expecting 3 players to create and score at least one every game while the other 7 stopped the opposition scoring any. The history of our club conceding goals somewhat forced Robbie to start with maybe 7 playing defensive and 3 in attack for the first half of every game, then switching another two forward from halftime. His recruitment was not shit. Robbie determined that we needed a capable striker and he thought ROD would be that. ROD did not come through for us. It means something about ROD or our setup just did not work. The recruitment was still OK - just some of the players did not work out. You can say "if we had signed someone like Berisha he would have been scoring" but we actually don't know that - just we assume it along the same lines that Robbie assumed ROD would be able to score for us. I have no problem at all with Robbie's recruitment strategy and I think he did a bloody good job with most players in most positions. He chose the right combinations of players for positions and for the effective style he has in place. No-one can guarantee a player will work out - does not make the recruitment suspect - just sometimes things don't work out. I have not seen a lot saying that the owners got it right appointing Robbie by the way - certainly a lot saying Robbie is proving himself, but where are the people saying those who appointed Robbie were idiots and mindless? To say "I was wrong about Robbie as a coach" is not going as far as saying "I was wrong when I bagged the Roar owners and management for being unable to see what a loser Robbie is". Like Brisbanegossip, I have been enjoying this season and our progress. You all know I have lived this team from pre-season and seen the improvements and potential as much greater than the results on each game day. I too am now going into games expecting wins, and I line up with those funny people who felt disappointed only taking 1 point out of the Glory game. @paulc To answer your question on where it has gone wrong from my perspective - it hasn't. We are getting better at our transitional play. We were always dangerous without punishing in the first half of the season's games. We are combining much better now, and were we to start the season now playing like we are (acknowledging that other teams have improved too) we would have won some of the close ones and be better placed on the table now. Even excluding the impact that Scotty Mac has had and adding ROD back in we would have done better back then playing like we are now. Time is the factor that you are not allowing the team when you label recruitment poor and they have needed that. Looking forward within this season, to stem the bleeding from your eyes I can only hope that the transitional play and combinations continue to improve (they will) to the extent that the first half becomes as strong on the counter as they are at holding (maybe they will) - and I think that is Robbie's goal too. He was as disappointed at our first half lack of scoring as the rest of us if you remember. The recruitment has not worked because he has contracted players lacking - considerable ball control, skill, imagination, improvisation, quick thinking, game reading, flair, etc. Their game and game execution has been mostly hampered by the lack of some or all of these essential qualities a good football team must have to entertain and / or succeed. Instead he bought in players that contribute to sterile and unadventurous games that can in no way be deemed a success, but is clearly ugly and mediocre a best. RF has done well with what he has, but it feels like congratulating a firebug for putting out his own fire. Pretty much agree with all this. The other way I look at it is - how many of the Roar players would fans from other teams be interested in seeing as a first choice player at their own club? Not many, I suspect (apart from maybe CCM fans). The question you actually pose then is whether we think every one of our players is worse than every other player in that position in the a-league (excluding CCM). I am sure that is not true without actually running through every team's players. Maybe I would be surprised after all. Some will say it is a damning indictment on our salary capped merry-go-round - but I would expect every player in the Roar starting lineup would get a contract with another club. Whether they then earned a starting spot or not would be up to them proving themselves to their respective gaffers in training. And I am sure several of them would. Gillesphey is looking better as time goes by. Aldred is a known quantity and solid; even better when he is co-ordinating a cohesive team round him. Hingert and Neville are known quantities with big engines. O'Neill will have eyes on him. O'Shea and Inman would certainly have eyes on them. DWH and Muratovic will have eyes on them as potential. Macca came from another club (but he was not an original find in Robbie's recruitment), ROD was and is another team's choice. D'Aggers may be a regular starter for another team. Corey and Pepper may not be a fans first choice but I would expect them to make at least the bench in some sides. The names may not come across as glamorous or marquee quality but they do not have to be since most players in teams aren't either. If you were building a team from scratch tomorrow with Roar players and everyone else currently available I suggest you would be mad not to have the Roar players as your main core and first choice. Nobody gets to build their team with the best of every team. The question would be then for every team, who is your weakest player and would the Roar player in that position be an improvement. That may be a line for a whole new thread discussion - who is your teams weakest player and who in the available market (plus Roar players ;) ) would you choose to strengthen it. From my experience fans will often prefer 'their own' players over another player who is slightly better. So perhaps fans are not the best judges in that sense. Still, I would be surprised if a few Roar players did not show up across a number of teams as a step up in their position. I actually think there are some very underrated players in this squad. We're lacking a bit of patience and cohesion in the front third (although it is improving) but if you look at the individual stats elsewhere we're doing ok. O'Shea is one example. A lot of people scoffed when RF bought in so many English players but they've also proven to be effective ball players. Not always flashy, but they're also not your typical hoof it upfield type English players either. Keep in mind we have no marquees and $700k available in the cap so there's a good chance RF will be able to retain the core of his squad and add 2 or 3 quality signings which is incredibly positive. Personally I think Robbie has proven to be very shrewd and I've got a good feeling going froward. I was very sceptical when we signed him but I've been nothing but impressed with how he's gone about things. Lets not forget after Ange's first half season and the initial clean-out, many Roar fans were calling him 'Ange Poste-no-clue'. I distinctly remember people panning his signings, even right through to about round 8. That squad went on to win the title. I'm not saying that's what will happen here but I'm not sure how many of us get our assessments right all the time. Lets see how the season plays out, he has us in 6th and where only a few wins off the top 2. It's a very congested top 6 atm (other than Sydney).
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crimsoncrusoe
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If you take Ninkovic and Baumjohan out of SFC and stick them in Roar,MC,AU or WP would it make any of those teams a serious contender?
If yes ,then most teams are just two quality players short of being good teams.
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Bender Parma
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This really is a crunch game this weekend. As much as a draw or even a close or unlucky loss would probably be passable, a win is so important and really changes the complexion of the Raw's season. There is so much negativity among their own fans at the moment. I think we need to look on the positive side.
1. Outside of Sydney, Roar are the in form team (certainly in terms of points gained) at the moment.
2. Roar are the only side in the top six who have defeated Sydney this year.
3. Roar has beaten every side in the top 6 this year, by my count.
Sydney - 2 loses 1 Win Perth - 2 Draws 1 Win. Melbourne City - 1 Win 1 Draw. Wellington 1 Win 1 Loss Adelaide 1 Win 1 Loss
4. Our Defence is the third best in the league.
5. Outside of the Sydney disaster we have never really been completely outplayed by anyone.
6. Robbie Fowler has done a brilliant job, on the verge of what Ange did (at a comparative stage) with average players. He seems to have improved every single player, or at least those who havent been moved on or given no game time. At a glance, Young - Looking as good as he has ever looked and is much better with his feet at the moment than in the past. Gillesphey was ridiculed early but has improved drastically. Bowles will never be a superstar but he is playing as well as i have ever seen him play and can do a job when needed. Neville has got better as the year progressed. Hingert seems to be improving each week and getting back to his best. Pepper is in career best form. Each and every player seems to be slowly improving.
7. Looking at our squad, we are realistically a class striker short of being a truly dominant side. that being said, every one of our forwards is improving with each game and still improving. Amadi Holloway, if they can unlock the key to getting him involved has shown potential. He is vastly criticised for a lack of goals yet it is often forgotten that he has hardly played any minutes. To be honest, i cant remember a game where he hasnt created at least one clear cut chance for himself or a team mate. It isnt beyond the realms of possibility for him to improve like the rest of his team has and become that missing link. Scott McDonald has only just come into the side, but he is a former socceroo, in great form and has the ability to really lift his fellow forwards. Brad Inman, is improving and has scored 2 sensational goals he could be the missing player. Wenzell Halls is also improving, although you wouldnt know it from reading these pages. He is still young and still improving massively. Even now, he has shown the ability to score plenty of goals and despite some easy misses he certainly does have the eye for a goal.
8. The improvement of our youngsters seems to have continued this year. Muratovic has really stepped up, JCP looks to have genuine promise when not injured, Akbari is keeping pressure on others and has proved he can do a job when called upon. It is easy to forget just how young Wenzell Halls is also. Our youngsters really do increase our depth and are a bright spot of the season.
9. We are a genuine chance of returning to Asia at the moment. It isnt guaranteed by any means but it certainly isnt out of our reach either.
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paulc
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+xThis really is a crunch game this weekend. As much as a draw or even a close or unlucky loss would probably be passable, a win is so important and really changes the complexion of the Raw's season. There is so much negativity among their own fans at the moment. I think we need to look on the positive side. 1. Outside of Sydney, Roar are the in form team (certainly in terms of points gained) at the moment. 2. Roar are the only side in the top six who have defeated Sydney this year. 3. Roar has beaten every side in the top 6 this year, by my count. Sydney - 2 loses 1 Win Perth - 2 Draws 1 Win. Melbourne City - 1 Win 1 Draw. Wellington 1 Win 1 Loss Adelaide 1 Win 1 Loss 4. Our Defence is the third best in the league. 5. Outside of the Sydney disaster we have never really been completely outplayed by anyone. 6. Robbie Fowler has done a brilliant job, on the verge of what Ange did (at a comparative stage) with average players. He seems to have improved every single player, or at least those who havent been moved on or given no game time. At a glance, Young - Looking as good as he has ever looked and is much better with his feet at the moment than in the past. Gillesphey was ridiculed early but has improved drastically. Bowles will never be a superstar but he is playing as well as i have ever seen him play and can do a job when needed. Neville has got better as the year progressed. Hingert seems to be improving each week and getting back to his best. Pepper is in career best form. Each and every player seems to be slowly improving. 7. Looking at our squad, we are realistically a class striker short of being a truly dominant side. that being said, every one of our forwards is improving with each game and still improving. Amadi Holloway, if they can unlock the key to getting him involved has shown potential. He is vastly criticised for a lack of goals yet it is often forgotten that he has hardly played any minutes. To be honest, i cant remember a game where he hasnt created at least one clear cut chance for himself or a team mate. It isnt beyond the realms of possibility for him to improve like the rest of his team has and become that missing link. Scott McDonald has only just come into the side, but he is a former socceroo, in great form and has the ability to really lift his fellow forwards. Brad Inman, is improving and has scored 2 sensational goals he could be the missing player. Wenzell Halls is also improving, although you wouldnt know it from reading these pages. He is still young and still improving massively. Even now, he has shown the ability to score plenty of goals and despite some easy misses he certainly does have the eye for a goal. 8. The improvement of our youngsters seems to have continued this year. Muratovic has really stepped up, JCP looks to have genuine promise when not injured, Akbari is keeping pressure on others and has proved he can do a job when called upon. It is easy to forget just how young Wenzell Halls is also. Our youngsters really do increase our depth and are a bright spot of the season. 9. We are a genuine chance of returning to Asia at the moment. It isnt guaranteed by any means but it certainly isnt out of our reach either. That's all good and well, but we're still 6th, lacking in individual skills and playing ugly football no matter how orange the glasses are tinted. Some (many) fans believe mediocrity is simply not good enough for this club.
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paulc
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Delete
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jeggohouse
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+xThis really is a crunch game this weekend. As much as a draw or even a close or unlucky loss would probably be passable, a win is so important and really changes the complexion of the Raw's season. There is so much negativity among their own fans at the moment. I think we need to look on the positive side. 1. Outside of Sydney, Roar are the in form team (certainly in terms of points gained) at the moment. 2. Roar are the only side in the top six who have defeated Sydney this year.
3. Roar has beaten every side in the top 6 this year, by my count.
Sydney - 2 loses 1 Win Perth - 2 Draws 1 Win. Melbourne City - 1 Win 1 Draw. Wellington 1 Win 1 Loss Adelaide 1 Win 1 Loss4. Our Defence is the third best in the league. 5. Outside of the Sydney disaster we have never really been completely outplayed by anyone. 6. Robbie Fowler has done a brilliant job, on the verge of what Ange did (at a comparative stage) with average players. He seems to have improved every single player, or at least those who havent been moved on or given no game time. At a glance, Young - Looking as good as he has ever looked and is much better with his feet at the moment than in the past. Gillesphey was ridiculed early but has improved drastically. Bowles will never be a superstar but he is playing as well as i have ever seen him play and can do a job when needed. Neville has got better as the year progressed. Hingert seems to be improving each week and getting back to his best. Pepper is in career best form. Each and every player seems to be slowly improving. 7. Looking at our squad, we are realistically a class striker short of being a truly dominant side. that being said, every one of our forwards is improving with each game and still improving. Amadi Holloway, if they can unlock the key to getting him involved has shown potential. He is vastly criticised for a lack of goals yet it is often forgotten that he has hardly played any minutes. To be honest, i cant remember a game where he hasnt created at least one clear cut chance for himself or a team mate. It isnt beyond the realms of possibility for him to improve like the rest of his team has and become that missing link. Scott McDonald has only just come into the side, but he is a former socceroo, in great form and has the ability to really lift his fellow forwards. Brad Inman, is improving and has scored 2 sensational goals he could be the missing player. Wenzell Halls is also improving, although you wouldnt know it from reading these pages. He is still young and still improving massively. Even now, he has shown the ability to score plenty of goals and despite some easy misses he certainly does have the eye for a goal. 8. The improvement of our youngsters seems to have continued this year. Muratovic has really stepped up, JCP looks to have genuine promise when not injured, Akbari is keeping pressure on others and has proved he can do a job when called upon. It is easy to forget just how young Wenzell Halls is also. Our youngsters really do increase our depth and are a bright spot of the season. 9. We are a genuine chance of returning to Asia at the moment. It isnt guaranteed by any means but it certainly isnt out of our reach either. When did BR beat Perth or Sydney FC?
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crimsoncrusoe
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+x+xThis really is a crunch game this weekend. As much as a draw or even a close or unlucky loss would probably be passable, a win is so important and really changes the complexion of the Raw's season. There is so much negativity among their own fans at the moment. I think we need to look on the positive side. 1. Outside of Sydney, Roar are the in form team (certainly in terms of points gained) at the moment. 2. Roar are the only side in the top six who have defeated Sydney this year.
3. Roar has beaten every side in the top 6 this year, by my count.
Sydney - 2 loses 1 Win Perth - 2 Draws 1 Win. Melbourne City - 1 Win 1 Draw. Wellington 1 Win 1 Loss Adelaide 1 Win 1 Loss4. Our Defence is the third best in the league. 5. Outside of the Sydney disaster we have never really been completely outplayed by anyone. 6. Robbie Fowler has done a brilliant job, on the verge of what Ange did (at a comparative stage) with average players. He seems to have improved every single player, or at least those who havent been moved on or given no game time. At a glance, Young - Looking as good as he has ever looked and is much better with his feet at the moment than in the past. Gillesphey was ridiculed early but has improved drastically. Bowles will never be a superstar but he is playing as well as i have ever seen him play and can do a job when needed. Neville has got better as the year progressed. Hingert seems to be improving each week and getting back to his best. Pepper is in career best form. Each and every player seems to be slowly improving. 7. Looking at our squad, we are realistically a class striker short of being a truly dominant side. that being said, every one of our forwards is improving with each game and still improving. Amadi Holloway, if they can unlock the key to getting him involved has shown potential. He is vastly criticised for a lack of goals yet it is often forgotten that he has hardly played any minutes. To be honest, i cant remember a game where he hasnt created at least one clear cut chance for himself or a team mate. It isnt beyond the realms of possibility for him to improve like the rest of his team has and become that missing link. Scott McDonald has only just come into the side, but he is a former socceroo, in great form and has the ability to really lift his fellow forwards. Brad Inman, is improving and has scored 2 sensational goals he could be the missing player. Wenzell Halls is also improving, although you wouldnt know it from reading these pages. He is still young and still improving massively. Even now, he has shown the ability to score plenty of goals and despite some easy misses he certainly does have the eye for a goal. 8. The improvement of our youngsters seems to have continued this year. Muratovic has really stepped up, JCP looks to have genuine promise when not injured, Akbari is keeping pressure on others and has proved he can do a job when called upon. It is easy to forget just how young Wenzell Halls is also. Our youngsters really do increase our depth and are a bright spot of the season. 9. We are a genuine chance of returning to Asia at the moment. It isnt guaranteed by any means but it certainly isnt out of our reach either. When did BR beat Perth or Sydney FC? Reality check. We beat SFC in the preseason FFA Cup and PG with our youth playing their youth.So no we havent beaten them during the season. We have been outplayed by every team in the first half all season. We are a grinding team that plays to our limitations and is better than half the teams at minimising mistakes. We are structured and disciplined ,but not creative or fast. We are set up to defend more than any other team.But PG and SFC are still better than us at defending .WP are the same. We are the third worst team at scoring. Basically are statistics show why we cant beat any team by more than a goal.But other teams also struggle to beat us by more than a goal. All the teams above us score significantly more goals than us.But AU and MC concede a lot more goals. The way things are shaping.If MC beat us next game then realistically ,the best we can finish is fifth. Sixth is most likely though. Pretty much where we predicted at the start of the season ,based on our preseason form.
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Roar in me Blood
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+x+x+xThis really is a crunch game this weekend. As much as a draw or even a close or unlucky loss would probably be passable, a win is so important and really changes the complexion of the Raw's season. There is so much negativity among their own fans at the moment. I think we need to look on the positive side. 1. Outside of Sydney, Roar are the in form team (certainly in terms of points gained) at the moment. 2. Roar are the only side in the top six who have defeated Sydney this year.
3. Roar has beaten every side in the top 6 this year, by my count.
Sydney - 2 loses 1 Win Perth - 2 Draws 1 Win. Melbourne City - 1 Win 1 Draw. Wellington 1 Win 1 Loss Adelaide 1 Win 1 Loss4. Our Defence is the third best in the league. 5. Outside of the Sydney disaster we have never really been completely outplayed by anyone. 6. Robbie Fowler has done a brilliant job, on the verge of what Ange did (at a comparative stage) with average players. He seems to have improved every single player, or at least those who havent been moved on or given no game time. At a glance, Young - Looking as good as he has ever looked and is much better with his feet at the moment than in the past. Gillesphey was ridiculed early but has improved drastically. Bowles will never be a superstar but he is playing as well as i have ever seen him play and can do a job when needed. Neville has got better as the year progressed. Hingert seems to be improving each week and getting back to his best. Pepper is in career best form. Each and every player seems to be slowly improving. 7. Looking at our squad, we are realistically a class striker short of being a truly dominant side. that being said, every one of our forwards is improving with each game and still improving. Amadi Holloway, if they can unlock the key to getting him involved has shown potential. He is vastly criticised for a lack of goals yet it is often forgotten that he has hardly played any minutes. To be honest, i cant remember a game where he hasnt created at least one clear cut chance for himself or a team mate. It isnt beyond the realms of possibility for him to improve like the rest of his team has and become that missing link. Scott McDonald has only just come into the side, but he is a former socceroo, in great form and has the ability to really lift his fellow forwards. Brad Inman, is improving and has scored 2 sensational goals he could be the missing player. Wenzell Halls is also improving, although you wouldnt know it from reading these pages. He is still young and still improving massively. Even now, he has shown the ability to score plenty of goals and despite some easy misses he certainly does have the eye for a goal. 8. The improvement of our youngsters seems to have continued this year. Muratovic has really stepped up, JCP looks to have genuine promise when not injured, Akbari is keeping pressure on others and has proved he can do a job when called upon. It is easy to forget just how young Wenzell Halls is also. Our youngsters really do increase our depth and are a bright spot of the season. 9. We are a genuine chance of returning to Asia at the moment. It isnt guaranteed by any means but it certainly isnt out of our reach either. When did BR beat Perth or Sydney FC? Reality check. We beat SFC in the preseason FFA Cup and PG with our youth playing their youth.So no we havent beaten them during the season. We have been outplayed by every team in the first half all season.We are a grinding team that plays to our limitations and is better than half the teams at minimising mistakes. We are structured and disciplined ,but not creative or fast. We are set up to defend more than any other team.But PG and SFC are still better than us at defending .WP are the same. We are the third worst team at scoring. Basically are statistics show why we cant beat any team by more than a goal.But other teams also struggle to beat us by more than a goal. All the teams above us score significantly more goals than us.But AU and MC concede a lot more goals. The way things are shaping.If MC beat us next game then realistically ,the best we can finish is fifth. Sixth is most likely though. Pretty much where we predicted at the start of the season ,based on our preseason form. This is the one point I really disagree on. We are not outplayed every first half - we are deliberately letting them come at us and attempting to stop them scoring while throwing limited attacking players forward. It is not right to compare our first halves with other teams or with our second halves. I get that it is unattractive football for the most part, but we are not being outplayed - we are saying "do your best in the first half because we are not letting you in". Scoring in the first half without sacrificing our effective and intelligent two stage game plan is what we are working on. It is a bit of tunnel vision thinking we are outplayed when we are actually playing a different game to our opponents. Also, saying we are halfway in the table and therefore mediocre is also misleading. We are beating and drawing with the teams above us now (Sydney aside). That is not mediocre - that is playing in form above halfway. Just because we are mid-table on our combined season results does not mean we are playing as a mid-table team. In fact, with our slow start, we are clearly a better than mid-table team to have made the ground up. Where we end up is anybody's guess, but don't sell the team short just because of where we sit in the table. Yes, we are grinding their attacks (which is good) but as time goes by we are grinding less in our own attacks. Time has seen us getting better at bringing the ball forward. We will continue to do so in my opinion.
When I wear their colours, I am the club.
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sirhcdobo
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+x+x+xThis really is a crunch game this weekend. As much as a draw or even a close or unlucky loss would probably be passable, a win is so important and really changes the complexion of the Raw's season. There is so much negativity among their own fans at the moment. I think we need to look on the positive side. 1. Outside of Sydney, Roar are the in form team (certainly in terms of points gained) at the moment. 2. Roar are the only side in the top six who have defeated Sydney this year.
3. Roar has beaten every side in the top 6 this year, by my count.
Sydney - 2 loses 1 Win Perth - 2 Draws 1 Win. Melbourne City - 1 Win 1 Draw. Wellington 1 Win 1 Loss Adelaide 1 Win 1 Loss4. Our Defence is the third best in the league. 5. Outside of the Sydney disaster we have never really been completely outplayed by anyone. 6. Robbie Fowler has done a brilliant job, on the verge of what Ange did (at a comparative stage) with average players. He seems to have improved every single player, or at least those who havent been moved on or given no game time. At a glance, Young - Looking as good as he has ever looked and is much better with his feet at the moment than in the past. Gillesphey was ridiculed early but has improved drastically. Bowles will never be a superstar but he is playing as well as i have ever seen him play and can do a job when needed. Neville has got better as the year progressed. Hingert seems to be improving each week and getting back to his best. Pepper is in career best form. Each and every player seems to be slowly improving. 7. Looking at our squad, we are realistically a class striker short of being a truly dominant side. that being said, every one of our forwards is improving with each game and still improving. Amadi Holloway, if they can unlock the key to getting him involved has shown potential. He is vastly criticised for a lack of goals yet it is often forgotten that he has hardly played any minutes. To be honest, i cant remember a game where he hasnt created at least one clear cut chance for himself or a team mate. It isnt beyond the realms of possibility for him to improve like the rest of his team has and become that missing link. Scott McDonald has only just come into the side, but he is a former socceroo, in great form and has the ability to really lift his fellow forwards. Brad Inman, is improving and has scored 2 sensational goals he could be the missing player. Wenzell Halls is also improving, although you wouldnt know it from reading these pages. He is still young and still improving massively. Even now, he has shown the ability to score plenty of goals and despite some easy misses he certainly does have the eye for a goal. 8. The improvement of our youngsters seems to have continued this year. Muratovic has really stepped up, JCP looks to have genuine promise when not injured, Akbari is keeping pressure on others and has proved he can do a job when called upon. It is easy to forget just how young Wenzell Halls is also. Our youngsters really do increase our depth and are a bright spot of the season. 9. We are a genuine chance of returning to Asia at the moment. It isnt guaranteed by any means but it certainly isnt out of our reach either. When did BR beat Perth or Sydney FC? Reality check. We beat SFC in the preseason FFA Cup and PG with our youth playing their youth.So no we havent beaten them during the season. We have been outplayed by every team in the first half all season. We are a grinding team that plays to our limitations and is better than half the teams at minimising mistakes. We are structured and disciplined ,but not creative or fast. We are set up to defend more than any other team.But PG and SFC are still better than us at defending .WP are the same. We are the third worst team at scoring. Basically are statistics show why we cant beat any team by more than a goal.But other teams also struggle to beat us by more than a goal. All the teams above us score significantly more goals than us.But AU and MC concede a lot more goals. The way things are shaping.If MC beat us next game then realistically ,the best we can finish is fifth. Sixth is most likely though. Pretty much where we predicted at the start of the season ,based on our preseason form. Alternately if we beat Melbourne City (which we are more than capable of as shown earlier this season when we were not even playing that well) we could be one point off 3rd with 2nd and 3rd playing the following week. It it too early to calling final ladder position. realistically we could still be anywhere between 2nd and 8th come end of the season. all of them are just as possible as the others. at the moment we are only 1 defeat in 9, are just as in form as SFC and Perth so i am happy to keep going with that.
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Keeper66
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xG (expected goals) data is referred to in this thread every now and then. Is there a website with official xG data available? I have been looking at footballxg.com, which has data for many leagues, including AL, and as well as cumulative xG/xGA data also has the data for each game played for this AL season. Is this "official" data? Is there such a thing as "official" xG data, or do various entities all do their own thing?
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crimsoncrusoe
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Whatever the strategy in the first half,we are outplayed.We cant keep the ball and cant score.We often concede a goal.
Parking a bus is not playing .Its blocking..It's saying we are not good enough to play ,so we are not playing.
If that is not being outplayed ,then nothing is.
The second half we play,because most times we have to .We are a goal down.
Why do we play this way?
Presumably the coach thinks we are fitter than other teams and thinks its easier to play and score when other teams are tired.
I wonder what would happen if we did the exact opposite?
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thekingmb
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+xWhatever the strategy in the first half,we are outplayed.We cant keep the ball and cant score.We often concede a goal. Parking a bus is not playing .Its blocking..It's saying we are not good enough to play ,so we are not playing. If that is not being outplayed ,then nothing is. The second half we play,because most times we have to .We are a goal down. Why do we play this way? Presumably the coach thinks we are fitter than other teams and thinks its easier to play and score when other teams are tired. I wonder what would happen if we did the exact opposite? Correct!
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Waz
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+xWhatever the strategy in the first half,we are outplayed.We cant keep the ball and cant score.We often concede a goal. Parking a bus is not playing .Its blocking..It's saying we are not good enough to play ,so we are not playing. If that is not being outplayed ,then nothing is. The second half we play,because most times we have to .We are a goal down. Why do we play this way? Presumably the coach thinks we are fitter than other teams and thinks its easier to play and score when other teams are tired. I wonder what would happen if we did the exact opposite? You fundamentally highlight the problem with sporting culture in this country in this one post. It’s becoming not about the sport but about the entertainment with no respect for the full range of skills required (cricket did it with fielding and circles to stop fielders doing what they should, and Union tried to depower the scrum and turn it in to a soft restart).
Defending IS playing football. Defence is a fundamental part of football and an integral part of the game. You may not like it, it may not be attractive to you, but it is playing football.
And you say “we often concede a goal” - in the last 6 games we haven’t conceded a goal in the first half in five on them. The only goal they did concede had a massive deflection on it.
So to all intents and purposes the Roar defence is outplaying their opponents attack in 5 out of the last 6 games!
RF has chosen this as a strategy, more out of necessity than a plan because he’s got gaps in his squad at 6 and 9, and possibly in a lack of pace out wide.
It’s pragmatic as such, but man - what he’s doing is not easy to do and it’s certainly not “parking the bus” which is a phrase that clearly people don’t understand the meaning of.
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paulc
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I think the loose term "parking the bus", whilst not technical in description is quite meaningful and valid. When you park the bus / stack the defence, it is because the circumstances gives you little or no tactical choice unless you have 1 or 2 very speedy attackers then it could be a deliberate ploy to break fast and score on the counter. Roar are completely incapable of the latter, so they park the bus and scramble to defend. Much improvement is needed in that department, particularly in the 1st half.
In a resort somewhere
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Roar in me Blood
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+xI think the loose term "parking the bus", whilst not technical in description is quite meaningful and valid. When you park the bus / stack the defence, it is because the circumstances gives you little or no tactical choice unless you have 1 or 2 very speedy attackers then it could be a deliberate ploy to break fast and score on the counter. Roar are completely incapable of the latter, so they park the bus and scramble to defend. Much improvement is needed in that department, particularly in the 1st half. I don't consider our solid/structured defence is parking the bus, but because our attack is not working yet everything hangs off not conceding and it appears we are often totally defensive when viewed by output alone. We look to build creatively and consistently out of our back line all the time. Often it works to bring the ball through high presses and weight of opposition numbers - then it just struggles to find the goal. We do not often hang 7 or 8 players back there without moving up, and we don't boot the ball clear every time things get hairy. Our many unconverted first half opportunities across all our games collectively suggest we are trying to score but doing that part badly. But we are not tortoising around our goal - we are defending it in numbers then pushing out.
When I wear their colours, I am the club.
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Waz
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Parking the bus has one meaning only - to defend and only defend with no intent of attacking.
That’s not what Roar are doing in the first half.
It’s a diversion from the main debate which is correctly analysing the first half set up vs second half. But parking the bus they’re not, otherwise they wouldn’t be attacking.
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WSF
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An image has leaked from Brisbane Roar training, Robbie working on his first half tactics. 
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Waz
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+xI think the loose term "parking the bus", whilst not technical in description is quite meaningful and valid. When you park the bus / stack the defence, it is because the circumstances gives you little or no tactical choice unless you have 1 or 2 very speedy attackers then it could be a deliberate ploy to break fast and score on the counter. Roar are completely incapable of the latter, so they park the bus and scramble to defend. Much improvement is needed in that department, particularly in the 1st half. That is not parking the bus. You can’t park the bus and counter attack - the bus is not parked then!
It’s like saying you’re flying but not flying. It’s not possible.
Parking the bus is a tactical response I agree. Normally to protecting a lead, or going down to ten men.
Roar aren’t very good at attacking I also agree. But when they commit 7 men to attack, as they did regularly vs Glory in the first half, they are clearly not parking the bus.
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paulc
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+x+xI think the loose term "parking the bus", whilst not technical in description is quite meaningful and valid. When you park the bus / stack the defence, it is because the circumstances gives you little or no tactical choice unless you have 1 or 2 very speedy attackers then it could be a deliberate ploy to break fast and score on the counter. Roar are completely incapable of the latter, so they park the bus and scramble to defend. Much improvement is needed in that department, particularly in the 1st half. We look to build creatively and consistently out of our back line all the time. Often it works to bring the ball through high presses and weight of opposition numbers - then it just struggles to find the goal. In 1st half when they "look" for creativity might be right but consistently fails in practice. "Struggle to find the goal" is also an understatement, please add struggle to break, struggle to shoot, struggle to creative, struggle to think with speed, struggle to control the ball, struggle to improvise, etc, etc.
In a resort somewhere
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paulc
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+xAn image has leaked from Brisbane Roar training, Robbie working on his first half tactics. ROFL
In a resort somewhere
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CS
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+x+xThis really is a crunch game this weekend. As much as a draw or even a close or unlucky loss would probably be passable, a win is so important and really changes the complexion of the Raw's season. There is so much negativity among their own fans at the moment. I think we need to look on the positive side. 1. Outside of Sydney, Roar are the in form team (certainly in terms of points gained) at the moment. 2. Roar are the only side in the top six who have defeated Sydney this year. 3. Roar has beaten every side in the top 6 this year, by my count. Sydney - 2 loses 1 Win Perth - 2 Draws 1 Win. Melbourne City - 1 Win 1 Draw. Wellington 1 Win 1 Loss Adelaide 1 Win 1 Loss 4. Our Defence is the third best in the league. 5. Outside of the Sydney disaster we have never really been completely outplayed by anyone. 6. Robbie Fowler has done a brilliant job, on the verge of what Ange did (at a comparative stage) with average players. He seems to have improved every single player, or at least those who havent been moved on or given no game time. At a glance, Young - Looking as good as he has ever looked and is much better with his feet at the moment than in the past. Gillesphey was ridiculed early but has improved drastically. Bowles will never be a superstar but he is playing as well as i have ever seen him play and can do a job when needed. Neville has got better as the year progressed. Hingert seems to be improving each week and getting back to his best. Pepper is in career best form. Each and every player seems to be slowly improving. 7. Looking at our squad, we are realistically a class striker short of being a truly dominant side. that being said, every one of our forwards is improving with each game and still improving. Amadi Holloway, if they can unlock the key to getting him involved has shown potential. He is vastly criticised for a lack of goals yet it is often forgotten that he has hardly played any minutes. To be honest, i cant remember a game where he hasnt created at least one clear cut chance for himself or a team mate. It isnt beyond the realms of possibility for him to improve like the rest of his team has and become that missing link. Scott McDonald has only just come into the side, but he is a former socceroo, in great form and has the ability to really lift his fellow forwards. Brad Inman, is improving and has scored 2 sensational goals he could be the missing player. Wenzell Halls is also improving, although you wouldnt know it from reading these pages. He is still young and still improving massively. Even now, he has shown the ability to score plenty of goals and despite some easy misses he certainly does have the eye for a goal. 8. The improvement of our youngsters seems to have continued this year. Muratovic has really stepped up, JCP looks to have genuine promise when not injured, Akbari is keeping pressure on others and has proved he can do a job when called upon. It is easy to forget just how young Wenzell Halls is also. Our youngsters really do increase our depth and are a bright spot of the season. 9. We are a genuine chance of returning to Asia at the moment. It isnt guaranteed by any means but it certainly isnt out of our reach either. That's all good and well, but we're still 6th, lacking in individual skills and playing ugly football no matter how orange the glasses are tinted. Some (many) fans believe mediocrity is simply not good enough for this club. The football is horrible, and team has quality issues for sure. The plus side is that Fowler is getting the team to play as more than the sum of its parts, which says good things about his coaching. TBH, I really do think that the fact we are in the race for the finals at all reflects the declining standards of the league as a whole over the past few seasons.
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