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Villi
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+x+xNathan Brown turned his last two clubs from cellar dwellers into decent sides... Can attract talent, is young, and doesn't like wearing shoes... Let me guess.... he’s got blue eyes too? Give it a rest.... leave all the tough decisions & recruitment to Marki & myself please Dman!!
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Villi
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So Adam Elliott has finally started delivering consistent form in 2020 after a number of years of mediocrity.
How much do you peeps think he’s worth for his next contract?
If Jackson is on around $600/700k per season, surely Elliott wouldn’t be worth anything more than $450k
We’ve carried him for years, the drop balls, poor form, mad Monday etc.... again, maybe under a different coach, he might up another level or two, but we shouldn’t be paying overs for him!
We clearly need a dynamic 9, a gun backline player & a quality 6/7 along with a CHN clone for 2021.... that’s where the $$$ need to be spent!
If Elliott picks up $600k from the Dragons for example, then let him go I say....
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Marki
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xClose game in the end. We did alright but just needed to not let them get out to beyond a try. This game proved a few food things. a) Holland is good at dummy half and offers some good variation in our play. b) Tolman not needed. This group of forwards were actually able to make metres forward. c) Wakeham did well. d) offloads provide us with good 2nd phase play and we should use them more even with the risk of losing ball (especially in opposition half) The bad side of things is: 1) Hoppa too slow at fullback and costs us return metres either fielding the ball or returning it (if he even gets out of in goal) 2) Smith is not a centres arsehole and should play wing or nothing. 3) we cant seem to defend any kick behind our wings (refer to 1 and 2 for reasons) 4) we still dont have the football nous or game management skills to take advantage of situations 5) sharks are a bottom 8 team but we still managed to lose to them Agree mainly but the offloads where Pay is trying to get them out wide are not happening. Really in the last minutes when we went wide RFM and Jacko took the line on hoping to poke through for an offload instead of moving the ball. Great if they work but mainly wasted tackles. No nous as you say. The only play that actually looked rehearsed was Hoppa's try. Otherwise none of those plays ever happen. I am afraid Deano is not teaching these guys much. You cant teach vision. Wakeham has a bit but not the players around hi. Takes a while to form combinations and we need to at least break even in the forwards battle. Tommo might make a difference, but we also need to start games better.... any dropped balls or 6 agains in the first 10 mins put us on the back foot. Unfortunately we died with the ball afew too many times on last tackle and didnt test their in goal defence with enough grubber kicks. Foran and JMK were to blame for this. We still look like a team that just wants to waste 4 tackles with 1 out hitups inside the 10m and just get to the last play where we finally do a spread backline move. I don't understand why our players dont have the brains to spot a gap in defence, an out of position player, an injured player, an offside player or even the bloody ref in the defensive line that can create an opportunity. Everything still seems preprogrammed. Foran and Wakeham have brains and vision, Wakeham just needs to get used to the pace. Our attack is better but I agree on grubber kicks. To win more games we need to start better, and defend better. Games are hard when the opposition wins the first 10 mins. The major problem is dummy half. JMK not good enough. No vision. Can't number up. Can't find holes and doesn't run anymore. Just shuffles the slow pass out. Get moving out of dummy half a few paces at least. Ask some questions. Pay is truly hopeless at changing our fortunes. Give Katoa a go. If we're gonna keep loosing, try that at least. From what I have seen of Katoa he is worse, in defence and attack, the last thing the side needs is the dummy half squandering possession at the attacking end forcing the play... Maybe he needs a chance, but I was unimpressed with his effort in the last trial... Looking at that game, I would bring Holland on earlier... our backrow all played 80 mins and went fairly well... get some fitter props, we might even be able to use 2 interchanges on the hooker. I agree JMK isn't what we ideally want, people want to try Katoa because he isn't JMK, but IMO that is a long shot.. Hooker fullback and the halves are vital positions as we are finding out, but we have only had one game with our best halves combination... Another option is to drop Averillo back to fullback early in the game when the opposition are coming of their line... if they kick long he will get there faster and make more yards before the defenders arrive and he is dangerous running the ball, at other times, we want Hoppa at the back.. This might help us with early momentum... I'm starting to warm to the Averillo at fullback idea even though I have never seen him play there. This week proved to me that Hoppa cant be fullback unless our named fullback is sin binned or out for HIA or out of game injured. He is way to slow to retrieve the ball from kicks and we are sitting ducks for chip kicks like Townsend did. Need someone with the positioning ability of immortal Billy Slater. Hoppa also doesn't seem to have ability to make a break which is vitally important important for modern day fullbacks. He does have nice hands on backline moves so I give him that, but it's not enough. Not sure if Averillo has all above required attributes but he is a must in the team and I wouldnt mind seeing how he goes. Otherwise the only options are DWZ and Meaney.
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Marki
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+x+x
I agree the next coach is important and it is essential to get it right ... but IMO Bennett is playing with fire... it could be like Des but worse...
The secret to dealing with Bennett is to see him for what he is and let him know you see him, much like Souths are doing. Give him his 3 years and be ready to punt him after two. Use the time to line up the long term coach you want and have him ready. Don't mean you short-shift Bennett, give hjim the players he wants because they're probably the players we want but can't get but make it clear to him all the SC and squad considerations are on his watch - they'll be no 4 year contract with backloads in year 3 @ 4. Gould had him lined up at Penrith with NIL input to squad recruitment or retention and he would've took it until someone on the board knee-capped Gould to get Cleary just to retain Cleary junior. Bennet was happy with it because Panthers had a Premiership ready squad. And that's all he's shooting for these days, he's not interested in building clubs, he just wants another Premiership on his resume and move on. So use it. It'll burn you if you don't know that's what you're getting but if you do and plan around it (give him his team years 1&2 but not after that) you'll get the talent to attract others long after he's gone and he will lift us to top 4 contenders quicker than just about anyone else in the game can. And in all that is another 180 backflip from me - an interim coach. Bennett being it. We've got to become a club players want to play at again or we'll fill the middle of the table for a decade plus. We're far from it now and I see no way out of it until we get players that attract other players and those players are attracted by the coach. Bingo. You have finally seen what I see. Need an interim coach of high calibre that can either attract high calibre players or can spot them in juniors and develop them. He will unlikely be the premiership coach but you have to use them to get to where you want to be in the shortest timeframe
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Marki
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+xSo Adam Elliott has finally started delivering consistent form in 2020 after a number of years of mediocrity.
How much do you peeps think he’s worth for his next contract?
If Jackson is on around $600/700k per season, surely Elliott wouldn’t be worth anything more than $450k
We’ve carried him for years, the drop balls, poor form, mad Monday etc.... again, maybe under a different coach, he might up another level or two, but we shouldn’t be paying overs for him!
We clearly need a dynamic 9, a gun backline player & a quality 6/7 along with a CHN clone for 2021.... that’s where the $$$ need to be spent!
If Elliott picks up $600k from the Dragons for example, then let him go I say.... I've always like Elliott and he seems to be in top form at the moment. It's a tough one coz he loves the club. What shits me is that guys like Jacko and Tolman would be on more than him and I'd much rather him than those 2.
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hounddog
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xClose game in the end. We did alright but just needed to not let them get out to beyond a try. This game proved a few food things. a) Holland is good at dummy half and offers some good variation in our play. b) Tolman not needed. This group of forwards were actually able to make metres forward. c) Wakeham did well. d) offloads provide us with good 2nd phase play and we should use them more even with the risk of losing ball (especially in opposition half) The bad side of things is: 1) Hoppa too slow at fullback and costs us return metres either fielding the ball or returning it (if he even gets out of in goal) 2) Smith is not a centres arsehole and should play wing or nothing. 3) we cant seem to defend any kick behind our wings (refer to 1 and 2 for reasons) 4) we still dont have the football nous or game management skills to take advantage of situations 5) sharks are a bottom 8 team but we still managed to lose to them Agree mainly but the offloads where Pay is trying to get them out wide are not happening. Really in the last minutes when we went wide RFM and Jacko took the line on hoping to poke through for an offload instead of moving the ball. Great if they work but mainly wasted tackles. No nous as you say. The only play that actually looked rehearsed was Hoppa's try. Otherwise none of those plays ever happen. I am afraid Deano is not teaching these guys much. You cant teach vision. Wakeham has a bit but not the players around hi. Takes a while to form combinations and we need to at least break even in the forwards battle. Tommo might make a difference, but we also need to start games better.... any dropped balls or 6 agains in the first 10 mins put us on the back foot. Unfortunately we died with the ball afew too many times on last tackle and didnt test their in goal defence with enough grubber kicks. Foran and JMK were to blame for this. We still look like a team that just wants to waste 4 tackles with 1 out hitups inside the 10m and just get to the last play where we finally do a spread backline move. I don't understand why our players dont have the brains to spot a gap in defence, an out of position player, an injured player, an offside player or even the bloody ref in the defensive line that can create an opportunity. Everything still seems preprogrammed. Foran and Wakeham have brains and vision, Wakeham just needs to get used to the pace. Our attack is better but I agree on grubber kicks. To win more games we need to start better, and defend better. Games are hard when the opposition wins the first 10 mins. The major problem is dummy half. JMK not good enough. No vision. Can't number up. Can't find holes and doesn't run anymore. Just shuffles the slow pass out. Get moving out of dummy half a few paces at least. Ask some questions. Pay is truly hopeless at changing our fortunes. Give Katoa a go. If we're gonna keep loosing, try that at least. From what I have seen of Katoa he is worse, in defence and attack, the last thing the side needs is the dummy half squandering possession at the attacking end forcing the play... Maybe he needs a chance, but I was unimpressed with his effort in the last trial... Looking at that game, I would bring Holland on earlier... our backrow all played 80 mins and went fairly well... get some fitter props, we might even be able to use 2 interchanges on the hooker. I agree JMK isn't what we ideally want, people want to try Katoa because he isn't JMK, but IMO that is a long shot.. Hooker fullback and the halves are vital positions as we are finding out, but we have only had one game with our best halves combination... Another option is to drop Averillo back to fullback early in the game when the opposition are coming of their line... if they kick long he will get there faster and make more yards before the defenders arrive and he is dangerous running the ball, at other times, we want Hoppa at the back.. This might help us with early momentum... I'm starting to warm to the Averillo at fullback idea even though I have never seen him play there. This week proved to me that Hoppa cant be fullback unless our named fullback is sin binned or out for HIA or out of game injured. He is way to slow to retrieve the ball from kicks and we are sitting ducks for chip kicks like Townsend did. Need someone with the positioning ability of immortal Billy Slater. Hoppa also doesn't seem to have ability to make a break which is vitally important important for modern day fullbacks. He does have nice hands on backline moves so I give him that, but it's not enough. Not sure if Averillo has all above required attributes but he is a must in the team and I wouldnt mind seeing how he goes. Otherwise the only options are DWZ and Meaney. Averillo played halfback and fullback in the lower grades U20s, then I think mainly 5/8 and centre in reserve grade. With Smith/Hoppa Averillo there is the option to shuffle them around. Pay decided to have Averillo in the centres running off Foran, that is a good idea. DWZ at fullback would be a bad idea, the other options are Meaney and Smith. Smith has all the physical attributes, but I don't know if he was ever played the position. Meaney is great positionally cleaning up kicks, he needs to get more involed, but fullback is his position. Once this season is over it is worth trying a few experiments. Meaney to fullback, Hoppa back to centre, Smith back to wing, DWZ to wing outside Averillo if we are jambing on that side DWZ knows how to do it.
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hounddog
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Group: Forum Members
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+xSo Adam Elliott has finally started delivering consistent form in 2020 after a number of years of mediocrity.
How much do you peeps think he’s worth for his next contract?
If Jackson is on around $600/700k per season, surely Elliott wouldn’t be worth anything more than $450k
We’ve carried him for years, the drop balls, poor form, mad Monday etc.... again, maybe under a different coach, he might up another level or two, but we shouldn’t be paying overs for him!
We clearly need a dynamic 9, a gun backline player & a quality 6/7 along with a CHN clone for 2021.... that’s where the $$$ need to be spent!
If Elliott picks up $600k from the Dragons for example, then let him go I say.... The mad Monday stuff was just plsyers being stupid and the media climbing trees with telephoto lenses. That 13 position is vital Elliott does a lot of great work in attack and defence, in form he is our best forward and a leader, apart from that there is no reason to keep him....😊
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Villi
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.1K,
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+x+xSo Adam Elliott has finally started delivering consistent form in 2020 after a number of years of mediocrity.
How much do you peeps think he’s worth for his next contract?
If Jackson is on around $600/700k per season, surely Elliott wouldn’t be worth anything more than $450k
We’ve carried him for years, the drop balls, poor form, mad Monday etc.... again, maybe under a different coach, he might up another level or two, but we shouldn’t be paying overs for him!
We clearly need a dynamic 9, a gun backline player & a quality 6/7 along with a CHN clone for 2021.... that’s where the $$$ need to be spent!
If Elliott picks up $600k from the Dragons for example, then let him go I say.... The mad Monday stuff was just plsyers being stupid and the media climbing trees with telephoto lenses. That 13 position is vital Elliott does a lot of great work in attack and defence, in form he is our best forward and a leader, apart from that there is no reason to keep him....😊 Include an incentive if he plays origin for an extra $50k etc, but we’ve got to make sure the important spine positions have been filled with quality to steer the team around the park & rack up points! I still believe there is more than the $3mill available in our cap for 2021 to spend
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hounddog
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Another thing we could do is start Dutchy at hooker, and have Dman in the crowd blowing kisses.
It is a real question in how he would go defensively but it has the element of surprise. IMO he did a good kick from dummy half in the Sharks game and may have the potential to kick a 40/20.
Perhaps we wait until the season is officially over before experimenting, but as the old saying goes nothing ventured, nothing gained.
And while we are at it try young BBO or Cogger off the bench in 14.
Cogger is a dud half but he might be an OK dummy half, BBO is a backyard footy player, like Matty Bowen, Tyrone Peachy or Milford... when they player themselves doesn't know what they are going to do next, no one knows, this type of player can tear a tied defence to shreds, being small makes them even harder to lay a hand on.
BBO is young but I think he would love the chance to play NRL after the physical heat is out of the game.
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Mooloolabadog
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xClose game in the end. We did alright but just needed to not let them get out to beyond a try. This game proved a few food things. a) Holland is good at dummy half and offers some good variation in our play. b) Tolman not needed. This group of forwards were actually able to make metres forward. c) Wakeham did well. d) offloads provide us with good 2nd phase play and we should use them more even with the risk of losing ball (especially in opposition half) The bad side of things is: 1) Hoppa too slow at fullback and costs us return metres either fielding the ball or returning it (if he even gets out of in goal) 2) Smith is not a centres arsehole and should play wing or nothing. 3) we cant seem to defend any kick behind our wings (refer to 1 and 2 for reasons) 4) we still dont have the football nous or game management skills to take advantage of situations 5) sharks are a bottom 8 team but we still managed to lose to them Agree mainly but the offloads where Pay is trying to get them out wide are not happening. Really in the last minutes when we went wide RFM and Jacko took the line on hoping to poke through for an offload instead of moving the ball. Great if they work but mainly wasted tackles. No nous as you say. The only play that actually looked rehearsed was Hoppa's try. Otherwise none of those plays ever happen. I am afraid Deano is not teaching these guys much. You cant teach vision. Wakeham has a bit but not the players around hi. Takes a while to form combinations and we need to at least break even in the forwards battle. Tommo might make a difference, but we also need to start games better.... any dropped balls or 6 agains in the first 10 mins put us on the back foot. Unfortunately we died with the ball afew too many times on last tackle and didnt test their in goal defence with enough grubber kicks. Foran and JMK were to blame for this. We still look like a team that just wants to waste 4 tackles with 1 out hitups inside the 10m and just get to the last play where we finally do a spread backline move. I don't understand why our players dont have the brains to spot a gap in defence, an out of position player, an injured player, an offside player or even the bloody ref in the defensive line that can create an opportunity. Everything still seems preprogrammed. Foran and Wakeham have brains and vision, Wakeham just needs to get used to the pace. Our attack is better but I agree on grubber kicks. To win more games we need to start better, and defend better. Games are hard when the opposition wins the first 10 mins. The major problem is dummy half. JMK not good enough. No vision. Can't number up. Can't find holes and doesn't run anymore. Just shuffles the slow pass out. Get moving out of dummy half a few paces at least. Ask some questions. Pay is truly hopeless at changing our fortunes. Give Katoa a go. If we're gonna keep loosing, try that at least. From what I have seen of Katoa he is worse, in defence and attack, the last thing the side needs is the dummy half squandering possession at the attacking end forcing the play... Maybe he needs a chance, but I was unimpressed with his effort in the last trial... Looking at that game, I would bring Holland on earlier... our backrow all played 80 mins and went fairly well... get some fitter props, we might even be able to use 2 interchanges on the hooker. I agree JMK isn't what we ideally want, people want to try Katoa because he isn't JMK, but IMO that is a long shot.. Hooker fullback and the halves are vital positions as we are finding out, but we have only had one game with our best halves combination... Another option is to drop Averillo back to fullback early in the game when the opposition are coming of their line... if they kick long he will get there faster and make more yards before the defenders arrive and he is dangerous running the ball, at other times, we want Hoppa at the back.. This might help us with early momentum... I'm starting to warm to the Averillo at fullback idea even though I have never seen him play there. This week proved to me that Hoppa cant be fullback unless our named fullback is sin binned or out for HIA or out of game injured. He is way to slow to retrieve the ball from kicks and we are sitting ducks for chip kicks like Townsend did. Need someone with the positioning ability of immortal Billy Slater. Hoppa also doesn't seem to have ability to make a break which is vitally important important for modern day fullbacks. He does have nice hands on backline moves so I give him that, but it's not enough. Not sure if Averillo has all above required attributes but he is a must in the team and I wouldnt mind seeing how he goes. Otherwise the only options are DWZ and Meaney. Averillo played halfback and fullback in the lower grades U20s, then I think mainly 5/8 and centre in reserve grade. With Smith/Hoppa Averillo there is the option to shuffle them around. Pay decided to have Averillo in the centres running off Foran, that is a good idea. DWZ at fullback would be a bad idea, the other options are Meaney and Smith. Smith has all the physical attributes, but I don't know if he was ever played the position. Meaney is great positionally cleaning up kicks, he needs to get more involed, but fullback is his position. Once this season is over it is worth trying a few experiments. Meaney to fullback, Hoppa back to centre, Smith back to wing, DWZ to wing outside Averillo if we are jambing on that side DWZ knows how to do it. Find a position for Averillo and leave him there. Shuffling him from position to position at this stage of his NRL career ain't going to help him
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Mooloolabadog
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2K,
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+x+x+xSo Adam Elliott has finally started delivering consistent form in 2020 after a number of years of mediocrity.
How much do you peeps think he’s worth for his next contract?
If Jackson is on around $600/700k per season, surely Elliott wouldn’t be worth anything more than $450k
We’ve carried him for years, the drop balls, poor form, mad Monday etc.... again, maybe under a different coach, he might up another level or two, but we shouldn’t be paying overs for him!
We clearly need a dynamic 9, a gun backline player & a quality 6/7 along with a CHN clone for 2021.... that’s where the $$$ need to be spent!
If Elliott picks up $600k from the Dragons for example, then let him go I say.... The mad Monday stuff was just plsyers being stupid and the media climbing trees with telephoto lenses. That 13 position is vital Elliott does a lot of great work in attack and defence, in form he is our best forward and a leader, apart from that there is no reason to keep him....😊 Include an incentive if he plays origin for an extra $50k etc, but we’ve got to make sure the important spine positions have been filled with quality to steer the team around the park & rack up points! I still believe there is more than the $3mill available in our cap for 2021 to spend Don't like automatic upgrades. During Queensland's ascendency we used twice as many origin players than them because our players weren't up to it. No way we had twice as many deserving players.
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dman2018
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Group: Forum Members
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+xSo Adam Elliott has finally started delivering consistent form in 2020 after a number of years of mediocrity.
How much do you peeps think he’s worth for his next contract?
If Jackson is on around $600/700k per season, surely Elliott wouldn’t be worth anything more than $450k
We’ve carried him for years, the drop balls, poor form, mad Monday etc.... again, maybe under a different coach, he might up another level or two, but we shouldn’t be paying overs for him!
We clearly need a dynamic 9, a gun backline player & a quality 6/7 along with a CHN clone for 2021.... that’s where the $$$ need to be spent!
If Elliott picks up $600k from the Dragons for example, then let him go I say.... This says plenty about your eye and unconscious bias against certain players... Elliots Is 25... it’s his 4 season of FT first grade.... he should be building towards his peak as an edge forward come prop... Weve never carried this bloke... sure he’s had a few errors in him but he ain’t no lay down sally... His immaturity and brain farts on field were never from lack of effort in fact quite the opppsite.. Mad Monday has nothing to do with anything but I guess as a subscriber to the Terrorcrap you just gotta bring that up... Elliot is as worth as much as JJ on the cap based on the past 18 months form, probably a bit more... And if we got $3M in the cap as you insist then an upgrade for Elliot ain’t gonna stop us signing a couple of good players in other positions... All due respect, and I love him but... If anything, Jacko at $700K is overs, he has really offered nothing Exceptional on the field with his play since assuming the captaincy, maybe 1 or two stand out games.., he is zero threat to an opposing D.... it’s difficult to assess the value of his captaincy... But I’m sure that covers any gap...
And I can tell ya, letting passionate bulldogs players go over the past 5 years hasn’t done us a single favour... Elliot is the type of bloke that would make it easy for a new recruit to love the club...
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hounddog
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xClose game in the end. We did alright but just needed to not let them get out to beyond a try. This game proved a few food things. a) Holland is good at dummy half and offers some good variation in our play. b) Tolman not needed. This group of forwards were actually able to make metres forward. c) Wakeham did well. d) offloads provide us with good 2nd phase play and we should use them more even with the risk of losing ball (especially in opposition half) The bad side of things is: 1) Hoppa too slow at fullback and costs us return metres either fielding the ball or returning it (if he even gets out of in goal) 2) Smith is not a centres arsehole and should play wing or nothing. 3) we cant seem to defend any kick behind our wings (refer to 1 and 2 for reasons) 4) we still dont have the football nous or game management skills to take advantage of situations 5) sharks are a bottom 8 team but we still managed to lose to them Agree mainly but the offloads where Pay is trying to get them out wide are not happening. Really in the last minutes when we went wide RFM and Jacko took the line on hoping to poke through for an offload instead of moving the ball. Great if they work but mainly wasted tackles. No nous as you say. The only play that actually looked rehearsed was Hoppa's try. Otherwise none of those plays ever happen. I am afraid Deano is not teaching these guys much. You cant teach vision. Wakeham has a bit but not the players around hi. Takes a while to form combinations and we need to at least break even in the forwards battle. Tommo might make a difference, but we also need to start games better.... any dropped balls or 6 agains in the first 10 mins put us on the back foot. Unfortunately we died with the ball afew too many times on last tackle and didnt test their in goal defence with enough grubber kicks. Foran and JMK were to blame for this. We still look like a team that just wants to waste 4 tackles with 1 out hitups inside the 10m and just get to the last play where we finally do a spread backline move. I don't understand why our players dont have the brains to spot a gap in defence, an out of position player, an injured player, an offside player or even the bloody ref in the defensive line that can create an opportunity. Everything still seems preprogrammed. Foran and Wakeham have brains and vision, Wakeham just needs to get used to the pace. Our attack is better but I agree on grubber kicks. To win more games we need to start better, and defend better. Games are hard when the opposition wins the first 10 mins. The major problem is dummy half. JMK not good enough. No vision. Can't number up. Can't find holes and doesn't run anymore. Just shuffles the slow pass out. Get moving out of dummy half a few paces at least. Ask some questions. Pay is truly hopeless at changing our fortunes. Give Katoa a go. If we're gonna keep loosing, try that at least. From what I have seen of Katoa he is worse, in defence and attack, the last thing the side needs is the dummy half squandering possession at the attacking end forcing the play... Maybe he needs a chance, but I was unimpressed with his effort in the last trial... Looking at that game, I would bring Holland on earlier... our backrow all played 80 mins and went fairly well... get some fitter props, we might even be able to use 2 interchanges on the hooker. I agree JMK isn't what we ideally want, people want to try Katoa because he isn't JMK, but IMO that is a long shot.. Hooker fullback and the halves are vital positions as we are finding out, but we have only had one game with our best halves combination... Another option is to drop Averillo back to fullback early in the game when the opposition are coming of their line... if they kick long he will get there faster and make more yards before the defenders arrive and he is dangerous running the ball, at other times, we want Hoppa at the back.. This might help us with early momentum... I'm starting to warm to the Averillo at fullback idea even though I have never seen him play there. This week proved to me that Hoppa cant be fullback unless our named fullback is sin binned or out for HIA or out of game injured. He is way to slow to retrieve the ball from kicks and we are sitting ducks for chip kicks like Townsend did. Need someone with the positioning ability of immortal Billy Slater. Hoppa also doesn't seem to have ability to make a break which is vitally important important for modern day fullbacks. He does have nice hands on backline moves so I give him that, but it's not enough. Not sure if Averillo has all above required attributes but he is a must in the team and I wouldnt mind seeing how he goes. Otherwise the only options are DWZ and Meaney. Averillo played halfback and fullback in the lower grades U20s, then I think mainly 5/8 and centre in reserve grade. With Smith/Hoppa Averillo there is the option to shuffle them around. Pay decided to have Averillo in the centres running off Foran, that is a good idea. DWZ at fullback would be a bad idea, the other options are Meaney and Smith. Smith has all the physical attributes, but I don't know if he was ever played the position. Meaney is great positionally cleaning up kicks, he needs to get more involed, but fullback is his position. Once this season is over it is worth trying a few experiments. Meaney to fullback, Hoppa back to centre, Smith back to wing, DWZ to wing outside Averillo if we are jambing on that side DWZ knows how to do it. Find a position for Averillo and leave him there. Shuffling him from position to position at this stage of his NRL career ain't going to help him I'm happy with Averillo in the centres outside Foran, find another solution for fullback.. I did think he could drop back to field some kicks early in the game... just to try to generate early momentum,,, I now think starting Holland at dummy half might do the trick, we need to find a way of gaining the upper hand in the early exchanges and don't really have the forwards to dominate, kick chase might do it, if we can turn the opposition around and have them coming off their own line.. It is easier to avoid 6 again when you are making dominant tackles. and it is easier to make dominant tackles when the opposition are running one out off their line. I don't think our players are played that bad individually last game , it is just that the opposition is getting momentum and winning the field position battle most games. We need to find and extra 5-10% from somewhere, Holland looked like he can kick the ball a long way,., accuracy doesn't matter if it is from within our 40, just distance..
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Zef
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+xBingo. You have finally seen what I see. Need an interim coach of high calibre that can either attract high calibre players or can spot them in juniors and develop them. He will unlikely be the premiership coach but you have to use them to get to where you want to be in the shortest timeframe Not even close. You believe in interim coaches as a practice. I believe they're a last option and they have to be named Bennett.
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Mooloolabadog
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+x+xBingo. You have finally seen what I see. Need an interim coach of high calibre that can either attract high calibre players or can spot them in juniors and develop them. He will unlikely be the premiership coach but you have to use them to get to where you want to be in the shortest timeframe Not even close. You believe in interim coaches as a practice. I believe they're a last option and they have to be named Bennett. Just don't give coaches, especially interim coaches, total control of the salary cap. They need to have the biggest input into the roster but not financial control. The agenda of the coach and the stability and well being of the club do not necessarily align.
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hounddog
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In terms of attracting quality players, money works as well as just about any coach....
A coach can attract some players and repel others...
Any coach that has been successful has usually been around long enough to have fallen out with some players, and some of the nice coaches that everyone likes, don't last long in the job... bedside manner is not a prerequisite..
Elliott himself said he wants to play semi final football, the club has to show players we will be a contender from 2021 on - a pile of cash does some of the heavy lifting... everyone knows money talks.. so everyone knows spent wisely the money can do a lot to strengthen our club... the right coach is merely the icing on the cake..
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Zef
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+xJust don't give coaches, especially interim coaches, total control of the salary cap. They need to have the biggest input into the roster but not financial control. The agenda of the coach and the stability and well being of the club do not necessarily align. I'd give any coach control of the SC and roster ON HIS WATCH minus 1 year. For eg A coach has a 3 year contract, he can decide the SC spending and squad makeup for 2 years. It gets reviewed and rolled on or not as and if the coach is renewed. That way he has to balance the cap, not put it on the never never of 4-5 year contracts. Long term contracts are at the discretion of the board.
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ODF
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hd, you are not wrong, money does indeed talk. It can buy you everything from the best players and referees to premierships, just ask uncle nick and the latte swilling brown paper bag brigade.
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Marki
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+x+xBingo. You have finally seen what I see. Need an interim coach of high calibre that can either attract high calibre players or can spot them in juniors and develop them. He will unlikely be the premiership coach but you have to use them to get to where you want to be in the shortest timeframe Not even close. You believe in interim coaches as a practice. I believe they're a last option and they have to be named Bennett. You fail to recognize that Dean Pay or whoever was going to replace Des, was going to be an interim coach....
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hounddog
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+x+x+xBingo. You have finally seen what I see. Need an interim coach of high calibre that can either attract high calibre players or can spot them in juniors and develop them. He will unlikely be the premiership coach but you have to use them to get to where you want to be in the shortest timeframe Not even close. You believe in interim coaches as a practice. I believe they're a last option and they have to be named Bennett. You fail to recognize that Dean Pay or whoever was going to replace Des, was going to be an interim coach.... Not strictly true that coach is running with meagre resources for 2-3 years... It is still possible for a really great coach to achieve good results with a weak squad, then they are no longer interim... so far Pay doesn't look like that coach and may only have 1-2 weeks to become that coach... However if we do by some miracle happen to win our next 3 games in impressive fashion Pay has a strong case for at least 1 more year.... I am expecting that? ... well no... So when taking on the job with a weak squad Pay was always set up such that failure was the most likely outcome, and any other outcome required exceptional ability. Most coaches would not take on a job like this for obvious reasons. it doesn't look good on your resume... Pay took it on as it was the only shot he was likely to get. I don't think he is exceptional but he has done a reasonably good job if difficult circumstances. The main problem he has it is, in 3 attempts we haven;t been able to start a season well, he has had some bad luck, but excuses count for nothing,
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Zef
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+xYou fail to recognize that Dean Pay or whoever was going to replace Des, was going to be an interim coach.... Well that's self-evidently rubbish. Firstly, the board extended him. And secondly, who was he warming the seat for?
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Steveswr33333
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+x+xYou fail to recognize that Dean Pay or whoever was going to replace Des, was going to be an interim coach.... Well that's self-evidently rubbish. Firstly, the board extended him. And secondly, who was he warming the seat for? Marki thinks they are going to notice him........
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hounddog
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https://www.bulldogs.com.au/news/2020/06/23/round-7-team-news-bulldogs-tigers/The Dutchy coup is nearly complete ... in the starting side in the centres now... It is a matter of time before he gets the captaincy... But will Dman get flown to Paris in a private jet for lunch? Or has COVID-19 scuppered all romance? This weeks edition of Mills and Boon Bulldogs brought to you by .... #AttackingPlaysMatter.
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hounddog
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On a serious note, I wonder if we will change our style of attack...
I agree with those that have said Wakeham gets the ball out the back too often...
In fact spreading the ball too often with too many passes is counter productive, forwards should be hitting it up off the dummy half and occasionally tipping it on.
Halves should be playing on the advantage line with quick service, or linking on the same side of the field with a deep backline..
Chain passing the ball through the forwards is a hangover from the Des era... just get early ball to the halves... then our centres/fullback might get early ball... speed it up.... definitely something we should work on especially at the opponents end..
I would also like to see Wakeham get the ball off a run-around at the opponents end, make it crisp and we might get an overlap....
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Villi
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+x+xSo Adam Elliott has finally started delivering consistent form in 2020 after a number of years of mediocrity.
How much do you peeps think he’s worth for his next contract?
If Jackson is on around $600/700k per season, surely Elliott wouldn’t be worth anything more than $450k
We’ve carried him for years, the drop balls, poor form, mad Monday etc.... again, maybe under a different coach, he might up another level or two, but we shouldn’t be paying overs for him!
We clearly need a dynamic 9, a gun backline player & a quality 6/7 along with a CHN clone for 2021.... that’s where the $$$ need to be spent!
If Elliott picks up $600k from the Dragons for example, then let him go I say.... This says plenty about your eye and unconscious bias against certain players... Elliots Is 25... it’s his 4 season of FT first grade.... he should be building towards his peak as an edge forward come prop... Weve never carried this bloke... sure he’s had a few errors in him but he ain’t no lay down sally... His immaturity and brain farts on field were never from lack of effort in fact quite the opppsite.. Mad Monday has nothing to do with anything but I guess as a subscriber to the Terrorcrap you just gotta bring that up... Elliot is as worth as much as JJ on the cap based on the past 18 months form, probably a bit more... And if we got $3M in the cap as you insist then an upgrade for Elliot ain’t gonna stop us signing a couple of good players in other positions... All due respect, and I love him but... If anything, Jacko at $700K is overs, he has really offered nothing Exceptional on the field with his play since assuming the captaincy, maybe 1 or two stand out games.., he is zero threat to an opposing D.... it’s difficult to assess the value of his captaincy... But I’m sure that covers any gap...
And I can tell ya, letting passionate bulldogs players go over the past 5 years hasn’t done us a single favour... Elliot is the type of bloke that would make it easy for a new recruit to love the club... $700k for Elliott.... you’re kidding right? We CAN’T score farking points..... the players that have that X factor, score/set up loads of attacking plays/tries are the ones worthy of 700K, 800, 900, 1m a season
Your clearly not happy with Jackson’s form & estimated salary.... so why outlay & tie up 1.5mill between Jacko & Elliott in the cap? Thats a big no from me after what we’ve just gone thru the past 5yrs...
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Marki
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+x+x+x+xBingo. You have finally seen what I see. Need an interim coach of high calibre that can either attract high calibre players or can spot them in juniors and develop them. He will unlikely be the premiership coach but you have to use them to get to where you want to be in the shortest timeframe Not even close. You believe in interim coaches as a practice. I believe they're a last option and they have to be named Bennett. You fail to recognize that Dean Pay or whoever was going to replace Des, was going to be an interim coach.... Not strictly true that coach is running with meagre resources for 2-3 years... It is still possible for a really great coach to achieve good results with a weak squad, then they are no longer interim... so far Pay doesn't look like that coach and may only have 1-2 weeks to become that coach... However if we do by some miracle happen to win our next 3 games in impressive fashion Pay has a strong case for at least 1 more year.... I am expecting that? ... well no... So when taking on the job with a weak squad Pay was always set up such that failure was the most likely outcome, and any other outcome required exceptional ability. Most coaches would not take on a job like this for obvious reasons. it doesn't look good on your resume... Pay took it on as it was the only shot he was likely to get. I don't think he is exceptional but he has done a reasonably good job if difficult circumstances. The main problem he has it is, in 3 attempts we haven;t been able to start a season well, he has had some bad luck, but excuses count for nothing, Pay had an option to stay as assistant coach and could have waited for a better opportunity (club in not as much shit as we were). But it was there and it was hard to knock back. The issue is/was that it a CLM (career limiting move). It is likely he will never be a head coach ahead.
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Marki
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+x+xYou fail to recognize that Dean Pay or whoever was going to replace Des, was going to be an interim coach.... Well that's self-evidently rubbish. Firstly, the board extended him. And secondly, who was he warming the seat for? I made it clear even before we sacked Des that the next coach would be an interim coach and he wont see us through to the next premiership team. His job was to get rid of Desball, strip the roster of all the junk but that it would come at the cost of a couple of seasons of poor results. Not even I predicted how bad our SC mess was - even after we released all those players it that we would be 3 years encountering without hitting rock bottom. I'm still wandering whether we have hit rock bottom or it's still to come. As for extending Pay, I was never in favour of it but the board felt Pay wasnt given much SC room to form his team and so they felt they owed it to him to see what he could do with 1 more year. I cant blame them too much, although it certainly was clear to me that Pay was not the right coach. With all the tall of coaching merry go round atm, I'm hoping the board is making the right enquiries to move onto someone with more tactical nouse and ability to shape the roster and gamestyle going forward.
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hounddog
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+x+x+x+x+xBingo. You have finally seen what I see. Need an interim coach of high calibre that can either attract high calibre players or can spot them in juniors and develop them. He will unlikely be the premiership coach but you have to use them to get to where you want to be in the shortest timeframe Not even close. You believe in interim coaches as a practice. I believe they're a last option and they have to be named Bennett. You fail to recognize that Dean Pay or whoever was going to replace Des, was going to be an interim coach.... Not strictly true that coach is running with meagre resources for 2-3 years... It is still possible for a really great coach to achieve good results with a weak squad, then they are no longer interim... so far Pay doesn't look like that coach and may only have 1-2 weeks to become that coach... However if we do by some miracle happen to win our next 3 games in impressive fashion Pay has a strong case for at least 1 more year.... I am expecting that? ... well no... So when taking on the job with a weak squad Pay was always set up such that failure was the most likely outcome, and any other outcome required exceptional ability. Most coaches would not take on a job like this for obvious reasons. it doesn't look good on your resume... Pay took it on as it was the only shot he was likely to get. I don't think he is exceptional but he has done a reasonably good job if difficult circumstances. The main problem he has it is, in 3 attempts we haven;t been able to start a season well, he has had some bad luck, but excuses count for nothing, Pay had an option to stay as assistant coach and could have waited for a better opportunity (club in not as much shit as we were). But it was there and it was hard to knock back. The issue is/was that it a CLM (career limiting move). It is likely he will never be a head coach ahead. I'm not so sure, most footy fans and a lot of media commentators think Pay has done a reasonable job, all things considered. It is very hard to judge, getting a first job where failure is expected and results are hard to judge could be smart. Most people are reasonable and take all relevant factors into consideration. Dogs fans are most likely to judge harshly and have high expectations.
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hounddog
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The promotion of Averillo shoes how to build a strong club.
Our best players were homegrown, in comparison recruitment and coaching are merely the icing on the cake.
Look no further than the degradation of our scouting, juniors and player development.
Even the Roosters develop some of their talent these days and they have 17 NRL feeder clubs.
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tony v_1
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so foxsports paul kent , dean pay will be spared the axe for a 1 more year extetion & says marita corabit, addo car, are linked 2 the bulldogs but says dean pay dosnt have pulling power 2 attract big name recruits so this 3 million the dogs have what dose it mean , & names all our players that are off contract & all are free as of now 2 negotiate with any team ,
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