Yeah listened to that.  

Once we have an alternate national competition in place is will elevate the quality & professionalism of Australian football all round. 

We'll see

question is are AAFC going alone. They mention working with FFA a bit on Twitter.

Is it a possibly AAFC go alone? That FFA want the Arnie model? AL youth league plus some high profile NPL club names?

Do then AAFC do as Mike wrote once and start a rebel league that sits beside that but has pro/rel downwards?

They can’t have a rebel league with pro/rel unless the leagues below them agree to go rouge as well. 

But it possible. I still dream about NSW Vic league comp with guest clubs from other states. 

Having a full pro rel and every state involved still dilutes div 3 and I don’t think every fed should get a chance every year.

NSW and Vic feds could get onboard. FFA statues state clubs can play in other feds leagues.

Playing in a rebel league is pointless though (they already exist - the “Church League” is effectively a rebel league not affiliated with the FFA) 

But  if you’re a serious footballer wanting to play at the highest level possible why would you play in a rebel league that closes the door on FIFA comps around the world? 

When I say rebel I mean set up on their own and get sanctioned by FFA.

At the moment we have 9 div 2s so having 2 shouldn’t be an issue imo. A closed league could work but I don’t think a closed national league div 2 and 3 would (eg 32 teams).

Something needs to happen. One thing I disagree strongly with is “we have to get it right”. It’s just a time wasting statement. Create something then evolve if need be.

The main point is you can build on something. But you can’t build on something that is hasn’t materialized. Then you are still as usual planning.

You need to be build something and you need to get it right (in principle). It has to be right in its setup or we will just recreate existing problems. It may not (and is unlikely to be 'right' at the beginning) but the underlying structure should be right.

So
1) Establish a NSD
2) If enough clubs establish a third
3) Allow P & R between the above two leagues
4) Allow P& R between NPL and these divisions
5) Establish P & R to the A League 

I'd add that the key is to actually plan (or at least set a timeline) to achieving those things. If it is agreed that A, B, C, D and E are the long term goals, then they need to also say we want A to happen in 2023, B to happen in 202X, C to happen in 202Y, etc. etc. If they just say, we'll do A and then we'll see how that goes and then think about B, nothing will ever happen. Timelines and milestones are vital to growing anything. If NSD clubs can clearly see a timeline in which promotion into the AL is a possibility, they will work towards it and invest far more into all aspects of their clubs. Whereas, if the message is "we'll do it when we're ready", then they will be slow to invest as there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Obviously timelines can change and may need to be re-assessed, but if you have no timeline to begin with there is nothing to even re-assess.

Is this fantasy still going? 
I'll check in here in another 10 years.... lol

Absolutely - timelines are intrinsic. Not only for success but for failure.

AAFC says NSD in 2022. If you reach a viable number to start a NSD or indeed a NTD as well great. However, if instead you only have a handful of clubs then you have to recognise that won't work and abandon the idea as it stands.

If you get to 8 to 10 clubs though that may not be where you want to end up but it is viable to start and viable to start making connections to both the A League and the NPL. 


 

Okay. I’m with you on that - there are at least ten clubs with the financial clout to go this way - just get on with it hey ...

I agree .AAFC need to have a league. Pro rel can wait, as long as it remains the goal and a strict timeline is adhere to and agreed upon.

I am not sure if the FFA will try the Arnie model. 

MLS does this and takes clubs from lower divisions.

If the bigger NPL went into an Arnie league If  May take away steam. Hopefully they are united. 

AAFC being Melbourne based may ensure this.

“.....When the AAFC announced on Monday that it was set to meet on Aug. 25 to "discuss the criteria for a national second division, with a public statement to be issued after that meeting," and that it was "forging ahead with a view to commencing a NSD in 2022," Australian football was sent into a tizzy.

But the organisation, a collective group of National Premier League sides, has explained to ESPN that the coming meeting doesn't indicate a breakaway from the FFA and auger a move to set up a rebel competition but, instead, is designed to lay the groundwork that will enable all stakeholders to put in place a second tier sooner rather than later.

Comparing it to the plans to seek out informal EOIs that FFA CEO that Johnson revealed to the Sydney Morning Herald in March, the AAFC intends to take stock of the interest levels of its clubs in participating in a NSD and their capabilities to do so, as well as check in to see how they've been affected by the pandemic.

"We haven't decided, I want to make clear, that the 'FFA isn't doing this, so we're doing this on our own,'" AAFC president Nick Galatas told ESPN.

"We're out there canvassing interest against a couple of [NSD] models to go to the FFA with. I think that's the clear takeaway. It's been misconstrued that we've severed the relationship with the FFA and gone our own way, that's not true."

The information they gather, the AAFC believes, will then enable proper planning for the launch of a NSD division by 2022 to swing into action -- although they emphasised it will ultimately be guided by their members as to when they will be best placed to take part in a newly launched competition.

"Unless you work towards it, you don't get there," Galatas said. "You can always think of problems. If you actively pursue something, you can come up with 1000 reasons why it won't work, but you've got to do it. We know there are issues, doesn't mean they're insurmountable."

https://www.espn.com.au/football/australian-a-league/story/4163868/a-league-wrap-sydney-fcs-biggest-threats-trevor-morgans-vision-plans-for-a-second-division?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true

FO back to Aussie Rules and take Jimmy "Jowls" with ya...............

It’s exactly the plan that I had mentioned a while back, as getting on the front foot and providing a plan to the FFA that requires little work for them to get done themselves is the way forward. Good to see that they are looking outside the box.

I’m sure many clubs would love to be involved, but it’s likely many would be expecting a significant part of their plans to be funded by NSD broadcaster and sponsor revenues, but the chances of that being a realistic possibility are next to zero right now. Finding what the expectations are is a good way of identifying the gaps, and determining a viable model.

If it is workable and no risk for FFA but they reject it then FIFA should get contacted. But have to play the game first. 

“

Football Federation Australia CEO James Johnson opens up on promotion-relegation, transfers and the next step in XI Principles

A stunning 99 per cent of football fans believe the game needs a major overhaul in Australia, giving FFA boss James Johnson a mandate to carry out his bold vision – but alarmingly, nearly a third need serious convincing that this won’t be another disappointing anticlimax. When Johnson revealed his blueprint for transforming the sport in this country two months ago, he was met with a healthy level of scepticism of the document’s unashamedly lofty goals. And naturally, for fans who have been wooed – and then let down – by similarly optimistic plans in the past, the task of convincing the wider football community that this is not another false down is a tricky one.

That message came through loud and clear this week when FFA officials sifted through the 3100 community responses to online surveys discussing the merits of the XI Principles. Data obtained by News Corp revealed a stunning 99 per cent believe Australian football needs transformation, while 31 per cent of respondents believe “nothing ever happens” from these big-picture plans – and a third remain sceptical about what Australian football will look like in 15 years. Football Federation Australia chief executive James Johnson speaks to the media. Picture: Peter Parks/AFP Far from being disillusioned by the figures, however, Johnson believes it is the hard proof he needs to know he’s got the backing of the public to make bold changes in the coming years – including a domestic transfer system, a long-awaited promotion-relegation system and A-League rule adjustments around foreign players, to encourage the growth of young Australian prospects. Johnson has labelled the introduction of a game-changing transfer system as a top priority, and revealed what a second division competition could look like. “I didn’t come back here just to administer the sport. What was interesting to me was really transforming it,” Johnson told News Corp. “That’s important to me personally, otherwise I wouldn’t have come back from a top European club. “Seeing that 99 per cent of the people who took part in the surveys believe football needs transformation, that for me gives me a lot of confidence that we’re on the right track.” Part of Johnson’s aspirations include having the Socceroos become a top-15 team in the world, the Matildas becoming world or Olympic champions, and building the A-League into a top three league in Asia. Socceroo Harry Souttar of the Socceroos heads towards goal. Picture: Mark Metcalfe/Getty Images He understands why people are more than a little sceptical about how realistic his vision is. “The only way (we can convince people) is by evidence,” he explains. “I’m not surprised to see that statistic. I know these things, or similar things, have been done in the past. “I’m not aware of any process that’s gone as broad or as deep in terms of engagement as this one. “I think as we now steer the ship from the what and the why, to the who, how and when, which is already happening – that’s where we are at the moment – you’re going to see practical implementation of different measures that are in the XI Principles.” Johnson points to the recent announcements, such as Trevor Morgan taking over as the National Technical Director, as evidence that the wheels are already in motion. The lack of a domestic transfer system has been a source of frustration for years, leading to one-year deals and a lack of job security for players and, for clubs, little reward for developing talent. “There’s nothing stopping it. It’s just a prioritisation at the moment – but it’s one of the top agenda points,” Johnson says. “I don’t see any real challenges with it. Because ultimately it is a system that works. It’s been tested. “And it’s a system that allows the Australian game to hardwire itself into international football. “So naturally you’ll see players contracted for longer periods and you’ll see more transfer fees coming into the sport. I think that’s a huge step forward.” Australian defender Trent Sainsbury in action. Picture: Giuseppe CACACE/AFP In the past week, Socceroos stars Trent Sainsbury and James Jeggo complete transfer deals in Europe, while Tom Rogic has a $7m Qatar move lined up – all of which would benefit Australian clubs, with a strong transfer market in place due to sell-on fees inserted in contracts. “So when there is movement of players between European clubs, there’s usually a trickle-down effect between negotiated sell-on fees, training compensation or solidarity payments,” he said. “I’m not so sure the clubs across the country, or FFA in the past, have actually understood these sorts of benefits.”

Johnson says changes to the A-League’s import rules – which currently allow for a maximum of five foreign players in a squad – will be considered as a means of ensuring Australia’s best young talent get enough gametime for their development.Ninety per cent of those surveyed felt it was important to get more match minutes for young Australian players – which could result in a reduction of spots for foreign players, or incentives for playing Australians.“I think this is a no-brainer. Maybe I’m surprised it’s not 100 per cent,” Johnson said.“(Changing the import rules) is something we need to talk to the A-League about, and we’re going to present this evidence to the A-League owners.“Whether we’re having discussions about reducing foreign player quotas, or about increasing homegrown players, the end result is the same.“I think the A-League clubs will really take that in a positive way, because they’re ready to listen.”

The merits of a promotion-relegation system is something which always fiercely debated in Australian football – with some suggesting it is the key to reshaping the game, while others note the financial burden on second-tier teams could be catastrophic for clubs.Johnson believes Australia could model itself on the competition structure in Brazil, giving hope that a promotion system could be in Australia’s sights.“Could there be a second-tier competition, with 10 or 12 teams that play 20-odd rounds home and away or do we look at a second-tier competition with conferences based in different states around the country that play half the season at state level and then end up playing at national level in a group stage, similar to how the Brazilian league operates,” he said.“There’s two parts to the season that starts at state level, then a qualification process that goes into a national level of competition.“This is something we could look at because someone of our challenges in Australia are similar to Brazil – where you have competition that are strong at state level and you have a very big country geographically, so their solution was to use this sort of format.”This article contains content that is only available in the web version”

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/football/football-federation-australia-ceo-james-johnson-opens-up-on-promotionrelegation-transfers-and-the-next-step-in-xi-principles/news-story/f723dae749431bade728e1ee795c11e4

I have a problem cut and paste with certain text

So basically he is saying we need a system that allows AL youth teams to be eligible.

Conference? What is the point.

A finals play off series every year between over 90 clubs. No thanks 

This is also a way to keep clubs weaker

“AAFC @AAFClubs “A stunning 99 per cent of football fans believe the game needs a major overhaul in Australia” @dailytelegraph  Re NSD section in article: If only we had the number of strong clubs Brazil has, the conference idea put forward by JJ would not only be a good one for us, but.. 1/2”

https://mobile.twitter.com/AAFClubs/status/1297039187254812673

“AAFC @AAFClubs 2/2....but possibly a necessary one. But we don't. So a national model will be more financially viable here than a conference model. Great we're considering models Smiling face with smiling eyes”

https://mobile.twitter.com/AAFClubs/status/1297041442469101569

Good.

nice timing from JJ also. On a finals day.

We're getting the wool pulled over our eyes....again.
You read the headline and you think that maybe P&R is a priority, but not really.
Just read this quote:
“Could there be a second-tier competition, with 10 or 12 teams that play 20-odd rounds home and away or do we look at a second-tier competition with conferences based in different states around the country that play half the season at state level and then end up playing at national level in a group stage, similar to how the Brazilian league operates,” he said.“There’s two parts to the season that starts at state level, then a qualification process that goes into a national level of competition.“This is something we could look at because someone of our challenges in Australia are similar to Brazil – where you have competition that are strong at state level and you have a very big country geographically, so their solution was to use this sort of format.”

I've seen these conference ideas before.
They are rubbish concepts.
It basically means there is no NSD, that's what it amounts to.

“Does he ask himself questions? Yes. Do we get a straight answer? No”

they all talk like this

”do I like the idea of a NSD? Absolutely”

its just blah blah blah

what he has proposed is an extender NPL playoffs series WOW

who know maybe they plan to have AL youth plus state winners....

Nope that doesn't fix anything. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. 

The ONLY real "roadblocks" are the two slime-buckets that currently occupy the Chairman and CEO positions!!!

The sooner that "the Greek" and "the Weasel" are chased out of Football, the sooner the game will be able to move forward again!!!

The "gross incompetence" of these two imbeciles is entirely responsible for costing the sport over $120M in less than eight months!!!

1. The vast majority are supportive of a NSD
2. Immediate push back, no reason, no ethnics needed, not part of the model, we gave you the FFA Cup, be happy etc.
3. Some support emerges cause no kids are getting a game at HAl level. Some people at HQ are concerened about poor international results at kids level especially, they are worried. They see NSD as the solution.
4. Arnie chimes in. Kids salvation etc.
5. Fox takes the COVID opportunity and cuts the TV Deal
6. Kids problem inadvertently solved as players flee
7. HAL plays kids, loses less money as Fox money wasted  on players anyway. People like this more and better chance to sell overseas. Better financial model now. Owners couldnt see this all a fluke
8. Arnies problem goes away, his kids will get game time
9. Why do we need a NSD now? We don't want competing clubs and our kids are getting a game.
10. But AL teams need more kids for business purposes. But they can't afford a reserves comp.
11. Transfer fees are coming and they don't want to pay NPL Clubs.
12. They want to hog the best kids, free and have somewhere cheap for them to play.
13. So NSD conferenced works. 12 AL U23 reserve teams rising ro 14 or 16 as the Ponzi scheme expands with NPL and others to make 2 conferences
14 But still expensive and gives NSD new teams too much of a platform. It seeds a true NSD. Thats Dangerous.
15. Best solution for AL and sole objective at HQ - "Player Development" whatever that is - play the HAL U23 in their State Comps
16. Cheap for them. Keeps us in our place, Best youth goes to HAL, thjey minimise buying and maximise overseas transfers.

The 3,100 responses to the XI principles averages out at 281 responses per survey.
It was extended due to poor response, wonder how many FFA friends and family made up the difference.
Now we are expected that these responses provide a mandate to follow through on these responses. Please.

I agree that everyone can see a NSD would be great, but until someone can put forward a proposal that at least has enough of a chance to get off the ground, and thrive, the FFA are unlikely to see it as a viable proposition.