National second division is kicking off with or without FFA


National second division is kicking off with or without FFA

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Barca4Life
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Hard to spectate but maybe they trying to find a way to reset the aleague along with the NSD concept? They won't get full independence you would think after the Fox deal is done mid next year.

I think they will try and find way to get the aleague in the right direction post Covid-19 and then put the pieces in place for the overall game with the help of the FFA of course.

Could 2022 be the year for the full reset? Maybe its wishful thinking but I just hope they get the game in the right direction because the future is on the line not only in club land but also the sake of the national team as well.

Arnie said the 'kids are coming' lets see what the stakeholders will do....
Edited
4 Years Ago by Barca4Life
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Barca4Life - 11 Sep 2020 10:35 PM
Heart_fan - 11 Sep 2020 10:26 PM

We need it Heart_fan that's the deep reality for our game in Australia especially when it comes to developing players.

Let hope they find a way to make it happen because we bloody need it.

No denying we need it, but unless the money is there, the idea will go nowhere fast.

People tend to look back and think the NSL developed players better, so maybe a return to largely semi-pro style structure across the board will be the only way it will make a multi-tiered national pyramid to work. The more I think about it, it will take some very difficult decisions to ensure the limited resources we do have are spread more widely, and those clubs that want to invest more can do so, but that would largely be restricted anyway as there is limited scope or incentive to do so. 

I was initially against such a concept of scrapping the cap, but considering the issues we face, finding a way to remove the floor amount in particular may well see clubs taking the chance to tailor their operating model could be beneficial, especially those in smaller markets. 

It’s harder to do that expecting all clubs to carry a fully pro set up as the leagues grow, which will still largely mean that only a limited amount of teams would realistically be able to participate. It will be even harder after this coming season when a broadcasting deal will need to be found and there’s next to no chance it will be anywhere near what we used to get. 

The players better get a good agent as the current CBA talks are just a preview to harder discussions in the future.

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Heart_fan - 11 Sep 2020 10:26 PM
scott20won - 11 Sep 2020 8:39 PM

More spin and corporate speak mixed in there, with a few things thrown in to try and capture attention. Very light on detail.

Everyone knows we need a NSD and the provision for P&R but no one has yet found a way to find a way that works financially. It’s hard enough getting to 12 teams, let alone trying to suggest a 32 club 1st and 2nd division that some keep trying to push for on here. 



He's obviously not going to divulge anything major in an interview like that, but it's interesting to see how the messaging is changing, from "Nah, will never happen" to "Maybe in 10 or 15 years time" to, now, sounding like it's in the imminent future.

Making the financials work for an NSD is indeed the hard part. Which is why I think the best way to start is to keep it semi-pro, with player wages on par with what the top NPL clubs are presently paying. Travel costs could be kept down by splitting the division into two conferences, north-south, with about 10-12 teams in each. Each conference would have the top NSWPL and VPL teams as its core (the large number of derbies would further save on travel), then add in a couple of clubs from each of Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, and regional entities from places like Canberra, Hobart, Gold Coast, NQ, Geelong. You're able to get to 20-24 viable clubs pretty easily. Pro-rel can be decided through play-offs.

Then later down the track a fully professional nationwide second division can be formed from the top clubs in each conference, with new NPL clubs coming in to replace them in the north/south conferences.

So the structure would look something like this:

2022:
A-League
Championship North/Championship South
NPLs

Future:
A-League 1
A-League 2
Championship North/Championship South
NPLs


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df1982 - 12 Sep 2020 1:32 AM
Heart_fan - 11 Sep 2020 10:26 PM

He's obviously not going to divulge anything major in an interview like that, but it's interesting to see how the messaging is changing, from "Nah, will never happen" to "Maybe in 10 or 15 years time" to, now, sounding like it's in the imminent future.

Making the financials work for an NSD is indeed the hard part. Which is why I think the best way to start is to keep it semi-pro, with player wages on par with what the top NPL clubs are presently paying. Travel costs could be kept down by splitting the division into two conferences, north-south, with about 10-12 teams in each. Each conference would have the top NSWPL and VPL teams as its core (the large number of derbies would further save on travel), then add in a couple of clubs from each of Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, and regional entities from places like Canberra, Hobart, Gold Coast, NQ, Geelong. You're able to get to 20-24 viable clubs pretty easily. Pro-rel can be decided through play-offs.

Then later down the track a fully professional nationwide second division can be formed from the top clubs in each conference, with new NPL clubs coming in to replace them in the north/south conferences.

So the structure would look something like this:

2022:
A-League
Championship North/Championship South
NPLs

Future:
A-League 1
A-League 2
Championship North/Championship South
NPLs


For it to work imo the Sydney clubs have to play the Melbourne clubs.

i think a conference most would pick one over the other if they were even interested. That would be far less than a single league. Could just end up NSW NPL plus some and Vic plus some
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soccerfoo - 10 Sep 2020 11:03 PM
Waz - 10 Sep 2020 10:08 PM

Stop being so realistic and on the money! Just go with the pretend side of things, the dream, the romance of it all that everyone shares.

The title of this thread cracks me up every time it flashes up. Lol

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Edited
4 Years Ago by paulc
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df1982 - 12 Sep 2020 1:32 AM
Heart_fan - 11 Sep 2020 10:26 PM

He's obviously not going to divulge anything major in an interview like that

He can’t divulge anything at anytime because he has nothing LOL

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My eyes glaze over whenever I hear anyone mention conferences.

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bettega - 12 Sep 2020 11:48 AM
My eyes glaze over whenever I hear anyone mention conferences.

Yeah, really don’t see conferences as a solution.

if a truly NSD can’t be achieved, likely best to just stick with the current NPL structure. The league will need to truly provide the best test for players, along with delivering the broadest reach to get sponsors and broadcasters interested
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"I think we have tremendous facilities with a renovated clubhouse and a support base comprising many young fans. I'd love the club to be able to compete in a second division and be given a chance to one day play in the top league, which would give us something to aim for."
 Without going into the way traditional clubs were treated when the A-League was formed, is there a risk that clubs like the Knights will die unless they play at the highest level?
 "No chance. The club is as strong and vibrant as ever so it is very much alive. Many young people are behind the club and you should come to our annual 'Oktoberfest' to understand how much the club means to its followers. Every Friday night we have 300 people coming for dinner at the clubhouse and if it's also game night you would not get in."
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/2498372/National-second-division-is-kicking-off-with-or-without-FFA


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paulc - 12 Sep 2020 7:43 AM
df1982 - 12 Sep 2020 1:32 AM

He can’t divulge anything at anytime because he has nothing LOL

Still got nothing to add to the discussion.  You can’t hide behind the ‘libel’ name anymore. My advice would be to get a life.


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I’m actually quite excited by what both the former NSL clubs and the newer clubs can bring to the table in the NSD.

Having a minimum of 28 clubs across 2 divisions (14 A-League and 14 NSD) would bring far more interest to everyday football discussions also, with everything from squad signings/line-ups to sponsorship deals. 

Just need the money to be there to make it work. Going to the FFA asking for a significant investment to get it going is bound to fail though, so whatever they come up with will need to be something that is fiscally conservative in its approach.



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libelous - 12 Sep 2020 6:13 PM
paulc - 12 Sep 2020 7:43 AM

Still got nothing to add to the discussion.  You can’t hide behind the ‘libel’ name anymore. My advice would be to get a life.


Typically, like a true activist you puport me to be someone else you dislike because the message doesn’t fit your narrative. You have nothing.

You must be so pleased how football has been advancing lol.




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paulc - 14 Sep 2020 11:43 AM
libelous - 12 Sep 2020 6:13 PM

Typically, like a true activist you puport me to be someone else you dislike because the message doesn’t fit your narrative. You have nothing.

You must be so pleased how football has been advancing lol.



Well it's advancing a hell of a lot more than when your mate Lowy was running the show
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saweston - 14 Sep 2020 11:47 AM
paulc - 14 Sep 2020 11:43 AM

Well it's advancing a hell of a lot more than when your mate Lowy was running the show

Advancing? You’re having a laugh.

i bet you’re a big fan of Dan Andrews as well.

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well we  cant havea proper promotion & Relagation with out a 2ND divisoin so without it but all wegetting from FFA is just fannying  about !!
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Australia could have a national football second division by 2022 under ambitious plans released on Tuesday.

The Association of Australian Football Clubs (AAFC) has created a partner group involving 30 clubs across the country aimed at creating a new competition below the A-League.

Issues to be finalised include whether the competition will be on a national or conference-based format, when in the year it will be held and the hot-button issue of promotion and relegation.

AAFC chairman Nick Galatas said while the competition wouldn’t involve promotion and relegation to and from the A-League immediately, that remained an overall aim

THE LIST:OF 30 Teams

Adelaide City, APIA Leichhardt, Avondale, Bayswater City, Bentleigh Greens, Bulleen Lions, Campbelltown City, Caroline Springs George Cross, Edgeworth Eagles, Gold Coast United, Gungahlin United, Heidelberg United, Hume City, Marconi Stallions, Melbourne Knights, North East MetroStars, Olympic FC, Peninsula Power, Perth SC, Preston Lions, Rockdale Ilinden, South Hobart, South Melbourne, Sydney Olympic, Sydney United, West Adelaide, West Torrens, Western Pride, Wollongong Wolves, Wynnum Wolves.

 
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df1982 - 12 Sep 2020 1:32 AM
Heart_fan - 11 Sep 2020 10:26 PM

He's obviously not going to divulge anything major in an interview like that, but it's interesting to see how the messaging is changing, from "Nah, will never happen" to "Maybe in 10 or 15 years time" to, now, sounding like it's in the imminent future.

Making the financials work for an NSD is indeed the hard part. Which is why I think the best way to start is to keep it semi-pro, with player wages on par with what the top NPL clubs are presently paying. Travel costs could be kept down by splitting the division into two conferences, north-south, with about 10-12 teams in each. Each conference would have the top NSWPL and VPL teams as its core (the large number of derbies would further save on travel), then add in a couple of clubs from each of Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, and regional entities from places like Canberra, Hobart, Gold Coast, NQ, Geelong. You're able to get to 20-24 viable clubs pretty easily. Pro-rel can be decided through play-offs.

Then later down the track a fully professional nationwide second division can be formed from the top clubs in each conference, with new NPL clubs coming in to replace them in the north/south conferences.

So the structure would look something like this:

2022:
A-League
Championship North/Championship South
NPLs

Future:
A-League 1
A-League 2
Championship North/Championship South
NPLs


I think you just created the future national structure with that post! 
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AAFC Launches Championship Partner Program

National Premier League (NPL) clubs in all states and the ACT have voted with their feet in support of a national second division football competition with the creation of the AAFC Championship Partner Group involving 30 clubs across Australia.

AAFC launched its concept discussion paper for a Championship competition in October 2017.

“Since that time, we’ve been encouraged by the support for a Championship within the football community – support that has continued to grow,” said AAFC Chairman, Nick Galatas.

He said the level of support is reflected in the number of clubs who have joined the Championship Partner Group.

“The Championship is about creating stronger clubs and expanding the football footprint throughout our country for the benefit of our entire sport,” Galatas said.

“The oldest club in the Partner Group was established in the 19th century and another two early in the 20th century, while the youngest club was established in this century. That says so much about the longevity and popularity of our sport in this country.

“Of surprise to many, perhaps, are that the three oldest clubs are from Newcastle, Hobart and Brisbane.”

Galatas said AAFC has worked diligently with key football stakeholders including representatives of Football Federation Australia (FFA), the state member federations, Professional Footballers Australia and the A-League clubs over the past three years to consider the most appropriate options for a Championship model and will continue to do so.

“We are grateful for their willingness to discuss a way forward and how we can help build the game together.

“I particularly want to thank Remo Nogarotto and James Johnson from the FFA for their support, as well as other key football stakeholders such as the Golden Generation led by Craig Moore, Joseph Carrozzi, Danny Townsend, Joe Mirabella, the PFA, Football Coaches Association and Women in Football, all of whom have strongly supported the idea of a national second tier competition.

Galatas said that the AAFC considers it is now time to put words into action and the Championship Partner Group has been established comprising clubs from all states as well as the ACT who will work together to finalise a detailed design report for ultimate FFA Board approval.

“Recently, we had a national Zoom conference with club representatives and briefed them on our work in getting a Championship competition going. As well as working with our Partner Group, we will be consulting FFA and key stakeholders as we complete our report,” Galatas said.

The aspects of the Championship model that need to be finalised involve national vs conference-based competition, timing, player squads, the relationship with football academies, facilities, corporate governance and promotion and relegation.

“Obviously, promotion and relegation is a hot button issue for many in the football community from a range of perspectives. Establishing a thriving and true second tier is a necessary pre-condition, so we’re helping to put it in place.

“AAFC’s view is that we cannot be properly considered as a ‘football nation’ without it and having it in place is our ultimate objective. While promotion and relegation with the A-League will hopefully occur little later, we aim for it to start immediately with the NPL below,” Galatas said.

“We also recognise a need to get the code back on track and financially viable and that is what we believe the Championship will help in achieving. Connecting clubs from bottom-to-top and top-to-bottom will help unite the game which will help it achieve its potential.”

He said that AAFC wants all football clubs in Australia to be the best they can be and want to be, at whatever level they want to, and are able to, play.

“More football at a higher level is good for players, good for coaches, good for supporters, and gives sponsors and broadcasters more opportunity to be engaged in the game from grassroots to elite levels.

“The Championship is a critical element of helping to grow football for the long-term benefit of the entire football community.

“Through the Championship Partner Group, the clubs are taking a leadership role in making it happen and making a real difference to football in Australia for the long term,” Galatas said.

A list of the 30 Partner Group clubs, each of whom has financially contributed towards the next steps, and when they were established, is shown here.

https://www.thechampionship.com.au/post/aafc-launches-championship-partner-program



Edited
4 Years Ago by paladisious
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Barca4Life - 15 Sep 2020 3:28 PM
df1982 - 12 Sep 2020 1:32 AM

I think you just created the future national structure with that post! 

If it’s a conference structure, might as well stay as it is. 

It will just be a couple of groupings of NPL competitions really if that’s the case, without a true unified national footprint. We already have an NPL National Finals series afterall.


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Heart_fan - 15 Sep 2020 3:49 PM
Barca4Life - 15 Sep 2020 3:28 PM

If it’s a conference structure, might as well stay as it is. 

It will just be a couple of groupings of NPL competitions really if that’s the case, without a true unified national footprint. We already have an NPL National Finals series afterall.


If you want to have a full pyramid structure (which I think should be the end goal), then you need to have an interim tier between the nationwide divisions and the 8 state-based NPL comps. A north/south divide works well for this, since it divvies up the two strongest areas (Sydney + Melbourne).

I'm not fussed whether you do the nationwide second division first, and then add a north/south conference structure later, or the other way around. But the end goal would be the same.
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https://twitter.com/nbnnews/status/1306148316913180672
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Good to see the coverage for the idea, but the devil is in the detail.

Likely better not to get peoples hopes up until something more concrete is in place as a proposal. Still quite a way to go. 



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Altona Magic, Canberra Croatia and Sunshine Coast joining the Championship group, bringing the total to 33 clubs.

https://twitter.com/AAFClubs/status/1306869548033826818

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Sunshine Coast stadium looked good for the storm
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Glory Recruit - 18 Sep 2020 6:41 PM

Sunshine Coast made it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=en1uwIzI3SE
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This is a very positive sign for Australian football.

35 teams that are willing to take the next step to present a solution that is agreed upon. 

I don't necessarily believe all the 35 would have the ambition to be in a NSD, no matter which form, from the first season. But we can hopefully believe that most have the want to become professional in the coming years.

Plus teams not in the 35 I’m sure want to be involved or will once somethings is up and running. And new teams that will be formed eg Team 11.

The professional footprint could massively increase if FFA release the shackles and sanction the proposal.

I don’t believe it is a decision FFA can make on its own. If all the state feds are behind it the FFA wouldn’t be wise to reject such a venture.

Hopefully any FFA involvement would be to ensure a League is set up not only to benefit the 35 teams involved in the next step but the entire NPL system. Via defined rules for minimum standards and promotion and relegation.
 
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scott20won - 19 Sep 2020 5:51 PM
This is a very positive sign for Australian football.

35 teams that are willing to take the next step to present a solution that is agreed upon. 

I don't necessarily believe all the 35 would have the ambition to be in a NSD, no matter which form, from the first season. But we can hopefully believe that most have the want to become professional in the coming years.

Plus teams not in the 35 I’m sure want to be involved or will once somethings is up and running. And new teams that will be formed eg Team 11.

The professional footprint could massively increase if FFA release the shackles and sanction the proposal.

I don’t believe it is a decision FFA can make on its own. If all the state feds are behind it the FFA wouldn’t be wise to reject such a venture.

Hopefully any FFA involvement would be to ensure a League is set up not only to benefit the 35 teams involved in the next step but the entire NPL system. Via defined rules for minimum standards and promotion and relegation.
 

The FFA and State Feds can’t block a competition being formed - at least not without good reason. So FFA “approval” is not required although the competition must be sanctioned by the FFA
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Waz - 19 Sep 2020 6:59 PM
scott20won - 19 Sep 2020 5:51 PM

The FFA and State Feds can’t block a competition being formed - at least not without good reason. So FFA “approval” is not required although the competition must be sanctioned by the FFA

Sure 

But my point is directed that if the state feds want it sanctioned and want to be connected via pro rel then it would be tough politically for FFA to not sanction it.

It seems highly unlikely that AAFC want a free standing league in any form that isn’t connected to state NPLs

Also there is a rule that states NPL clubs can play in another NPL competition if their home FA agrees and the one they will enter does also. In this case it would be a new NPL that is one step above.

Vic and NSW already seem onboard.
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