nomates
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+x+x+x+xBenjamin, Why don't you try actually reading what I write. I'm supportive of pro/rel. I'm just not supportive of the sweatshop put forward by the self interested no talent hacks of the AAFC. A second division must be fully professional from day 1, otherwise it's pointless. The AAFC is not about improving football, they're in it only for themselves. I read it - you appear to fail to see the overall benefits to the game provided by giving clubs at a lower level an incentive to improve. All those non-league sides were semi-professional at the time - only becoming professional and improving facilities due to the opportunity provided to them. You keep talking about sweatshops and self-interest, I don't get either comment. It's opportunity where it hasn't previously existed, and it's a love of football rather than self interest. Self interest is a small group saying "let's do this for us and no one else", what the AAFC have said is "let's do this and let an independent body decide who should be in it". Which is exactly what the clubs and some players are doing. How many fans do you know saying: "Wow, if South and the two Croatia's are back, we're all gonna pack out the grounds. THIS is what we want". Or sponsors saying "Wow, with South and the two Croatia's back, that's a huge market we can target for our wares" None of the clubs or the players are in it to grow the game, they're in in it because thy sense there's dollars in it for them personally. I know plenty of fans - the vast majority infact - plus sponsors, media, etc., who are BEGGING for more teams, increased competition/diversity, something different in a game which is stagnating badly... More teams and increased competition is exactly what this is offering and THIS is what they want. The clubs and players can only possibly make dollars if the game grows - one causes the other. Unless you think that all of this is about a one year deal... In which case why panic as the clubs themselves have said they don't want promotion/relegation on the table for 5 years... What are you so scared of? What sponsors and media that are begging?????? Name them or you lie!
Wellington Phoenix FC
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Joe DOrazio
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I believe our code of football's greatest strength is that it has by far the greatest number of participants. Our second tier, the NPL is much stronger than their equivalents in other codes. It has a reasonable following in all states. In Rugby and AFL, their second tiers have whittled, whereas in ours it has retained significant support. Democratising the code will allow it to grow. Self interest is not necessarily a negative if it also enables people to explore new ways of promoting the game. Safeguards are needed to ensure club activity is not detrimental to the code.
It makes sense to split it so that the stronger clubs can form the second level national competition. Obviously, clubs that wish to participate will have to prove they have the finances, support, and facilities to compete on a national level. They are not mini A-League teams, and I believe it would be a decade before P&R is feasible.
The future of has to be tackled in stages, for example:
* A league, to grow by 2 teams every 2 or 3 years to a max of 16. This may mean one may need to relax the rules concerning spectator and membership support.
* 2nd tier to start with 10 teams - to start with the most viable and ideally later to ensure all states and territories are represented. target max of 16 teams. 2 new teams to be added every 2 or 3 years
* After 2nd tier reached their max size, NPL league champions and second place getters to play off against the 2 bottom placed 2nd tier teams, that is, P&R from NPL to 2nd Tier.
* After 10 years, P&R from 2nd tier to A-League.
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
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+x+x+xBenjamin, Why don't you try actually reading what I write. I'm supportive of pro/rel. I'm just not supportive of the sweatshop put forward by the self interested no talent hacks of the AAFC. A second division must be fully professional from day 1, otherwise it's pointless. The AAFC is not about improving football, they're in it only for themselves. I read it - you appear to fail to see the overall benefits to the game provided by giving clubs at a lower level an incentive to improve. All those non-league sides were semi-professional at the time - only becoming professional and improving facilities due to the opportunity provided to them. You keep talking about sweatshops and self-interest, I don't get either comment. It's opportunity where it hasn't previously existed, and it's a love of football rather than self interest. Self interest is a small group saying "let's do this for us and no one else", what the AAFC have said is "let's do this and let an independent body decide who should be in it". Which is exactly what the clubs and some players are doing. How many fans do you know saying: "Wow, if South and the two Croatia's are back, we're all gonna pack out the grounds. THIS is what we want". Or sponsors saying "Wow, with South and the two Croatia's back, that's a huge market we can target for our wares" None of the clubs or the players are in it to grow the game, they're in in it because thy sense there's dollars in it for them personally. I know plenty of fans - the vast majority infact - plus sponsors, media, etc., who are BEGGING for more teams, increased competition/diversity, something different in a game which is stagnating badly... More teams and increased competition is exactly what this is offering and THIS is what they want. The clubs and players can only possibly make dollars if the game grows - one causes the other. Unless you think that all of this is about a one year deal... In which case why panic as the clubs themselves have said they don't want promotion/relegation on the table for 5 years... What are you so scared of?
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RBBAnonymous
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+xBenjamin, Why don't you try actually reading what I write. I'm supportive of pro/rel. I'm just not supportive of the sweatshop put forward by the self interested no talent hacks of the AAFC. A second division must be fully professional from day 1, otherwise it's pointless. The AAFC is not about improving football, they're in it only for themselves. I read it - you appear to fail to see the overall benefits to the game provided by giving clubs at a lower level an incentive to improve. All those non-league sides were semi-professional at the time - only becoming professional and improving facilities due to the opportunity provided to them. You keep talking about sweatshops and self-interest, I don't get either comment. It's opportunity where it hasn't previously existed, and it's a love of football rather than self interest. Self interest is a small group saying "let's do this for us and no one else", what the AAFC have said is "let's do this and let an independent body decide who should be in it". Which is exactly what the clubs and some players are doing. How many fans do you know saying: "Wow, if South and the two Croatia's are back, we're all gonna pack out the grounds. THIS is what we want". Or sponsors saying "Wow, with South and the two Croatia's back, that's a huge market we can target for our wares" None of the clubs or the players are in it to grow the game, they're in in it because thy sense there's dollars in it for them personally. Why are you opposed to this? There is no certainty that Souths or the Melb Knights or Sydney United will be successful, my guess is they won't be. That's not the point though. If you are proven to be correct and that crowds wont support these teams, won't get sponsorship or become broad based then that will quickly be found out. It will provide opportunities for other investors, clubs, consortiums to come in and do it better and GROW the game. See the problem with your logic is that by hanging onto your position you believe there is no better alternative. Allow any club to come in and participate and let them fail or succeed on merit. In 10-15 years time you will pleased with the outcome.
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Billy the Fish
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+x+xAha, so it's 142 people who aren't happy. 143 with The Select Few How much is the pass mark you reckon? Gallop told me if there was 200 retweets he'd consider resigning
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aussieshorter
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.2K,
Visits: 93
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+x+x+xBenjamin, Why don't you try actually reading what I write. I'm supportive of pro/rel. I'm just not supportive of the sweatshop put forward by the self interested no talent hacks of the AAFC. A second division must be fully professional from day 1, otherwise it's pointless. The AAFC is not about improving football, they're in it only for themselves. I read it - you appear to fail to see the overall benefits to the game provided by giving clubs at a lower level an incentive to improve. All those non-league sides were semi-professional at the time - only becoming professional and improving facilities due to the opportunity provided to them. You keep talking about sweatshops and self-interest, I don't get either comment. It's opportunity where it hasn't previously existed, and it's a love of football rather than self interest. Self interest is a small group saying "let's do this for us and no one else", what the AAFC have said is "let's do this and let an independent body decide who should be in it". None of the clubs or the players are in it to grow the game, they're in in it because thy sense there's dollars in it for them personally. Even if that were true, which I don't believe it is, it wouldn't preclude the outcome from being in the best interests of Australian football. There are so many benefits that come with a well-planned 2nd Div, regardless of what clubs are a part of it.
____________________________________________________________________________ TPO Rankings - the FIFA World Rankings for Australian football clubs 
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+xBenjamin, Why don't you try actually reading what I write. I'm supportive of pro/rel. I'm just not supportive of the sweatshop put forward by the self interested no talent hacks of the AAFC. A second division must be fully professional from day 1, otherwise it's pointless. The AAFC is not about improving football, they're in it only for themselves. I read it - you appear to fail to see the overall benefits to the game provided by giving clubs at a lower level an incentive to improve. All those non-league sides were semi-professional at the time - only becoming professional and improving facilities due to the opportunity provided to them. You keep talking about sweatshops and self-interest, I don't get either comment. It's opportunity where it hasn't previously existed, and it's a love of football rather than self interest. Self interest is a small group saying "let's do this for us and no one else", what the AAFC have said is "let's do this and let an independent body decide who should be in it". Which is exactly what the clubs and some players are doing. How many fans do you know saying: "Wow, if South and the two Croatia's are back, we're all gonna pack out the grounds. THIS is what we want". Or sponsors saying "Wow, with South and the two Croatia's back, that's a huge market we can target for our wares" None of the clubs or the players are in it to grow the game, they're in in it because thy sense there's dollars in it for them personally.
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
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+xAha, so it's 142 people who aren't happy. 143 with The Select Few How much is the pass mark you reckon?
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 23K,
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+xBenjamin, Why don't you try actually reading what I write. I'm supportive of pro/rel. I'm just not supportive of the sweatshop put forward by the self interested no talent hacks of the AAFC. A second division must be fully professional from day 1, otherwise it's pointless. The AAFC is not about improving football, they're in it only for themselves. I read it - you appear to fail to see the overall benefits to the game provided by giving clubs at a lower level an incentive to improve. All those non-league sides were semi-professional at the time - only becoming professional and improving facilities due to the opportunity provided to them. You keep talking about sweatshops and self-interest, I don't get either comment. It's opportunity where it hasn't previously existed, and it's a love of football rather than self interest. Self interest is a small group saying "let's do this for us and no one else", what the AAFC have said is "let's do this and let an independent body decide who should be in it".
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Billy the Fish
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Group: Banned Members
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Aha, so it's 142 people who aren't happy. 143 with The Select Few
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MarkfromCroydon
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Group: Forum Members
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Benjamin, Why don't you try actually reading what I write. I'm supportive of pro/rel. I'm just not supportive of the sweatshop put forward by the self interested no talent hacks of the AAFC. A second division must be fully professional from day 1, otherwise it's pointless. The AAFC is not about improving football, they're in it only for themselves.
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
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FWIW I havent added my voice of discontent here yet.
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AJF
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For Roberts/Pauly and other people that believe there are only 20 people not happy with HAL, check out comments in below SBS Facebook post. https://www.facebook.com/SBSTheWorldGame/posts/10155666357252752
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
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+xThere's so much rubbish on here. Look at your history. Football leagues have been closed all over the world for decades. Even in England, the league has been a closed league for most of its existence. Finishing last in the bottom division did't mean you were out. A club would get voted out, or not! And of course, the number of divisions and clubs overall was once much less.. Selective use of history there. As you note, finishing last in Div 4 didn't mean automatic relegation - but it still carried the risk if the other members of the league felt the top non-league side offered them more than the bottom league side - you were gone... That provided more than a little motivation. What you really fail to acknowledge is that when promotion/relegation became something that could be earned rather than voted on, non-league clubs were provided with a clear set of requirements for promotion - and as a result the standards across the non-league rose rapidly. Non-league in the 80s was semi-professional at best with small match fees for players; by the mid 90s, half the Conference sides were full-time professional operations, with stadiums at league level. But no, we should keep the doors tight shut... Don't give them an inch. Don't increase the league or provide opportunities for extra pathways. Don't give the kids who miss out at the end of the youth league a competitive league to go to and showcase their talents... If they are good enough they'll make it by 19, if they aren't - f*ck'em, right?
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bigpoppa
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+x+xI suggest Roberts1 and co listen to the Clubland podcast on FNR from yesterday. They interviewed Troy Bingham who is the newly re-founded Gold Coast United CEO. He declared their aspirations for the club to play in the Championship and it really shows the level clubs are going to aspiring for the Championship and the level these 'ethnic' clubs will have to go to if they want to keep up. Really emphasises this is about growing football pathways and culture and not the 'ethnics' trying to wrest back control. It's quite impressive the lengths some of these clubs are going to to set themselves up for future National League aspirations. How anyone can think the Championship is a bad thing, just hearing the minimal bits and pieces we have heard so far before a bid has even been put in, is beyond me.. Few points: - Building relationships with grassroots clubs on the Gold Coast. Within 3 months they already have up to 15 clubs signed up who get expert coaching in return. - Offering minimal fees for players to start with. 1-2 scholarship players in each age group. Through sponsorship's from local businesses, with in 2 years plan to have no fees for their players. Acknowledged how high some fees are and really emphasised they want every kid to have a chance at top level football. They had up to 120 kids trial for each age group which added up to well over 1000 kids. - Have also set up an academy for players who don't quite make the squad but want to keep improving. Kids play and train with local FGC club and train 1-2 nights a week at GCU. Helps the club watch the development of players so none slip through the cracks. - Only 4 fulltime staff who are all coaches. 4 A-License coaches. Board are all volunteers. - Plans to build a boutique approx. 5000 seat stadium somewhere on the coast in the future. Want to have adjoining training fields and set up an onsite academy with world class training facilities. Set it up for a destination for overseas training camps etc leverage on the high interst of tourism throughout Asia for the GC. And this is the power of providing opportunity and incentive to ambitious clubs. GCU are in no way guaranteed to be accepted into the Championship, and yet they are planning and improving their club in order to give themselves a chance. And what happens if they don't get admitted to the Championship? We will have a club in the NPL who has better facilities, coaches and infrastructure than if they'd done nothing. I think I said this somewhere before, but this is the difference between expanding the A-League versus implementing an open second division: - A-League expansion requires a bidding process where multiple parties state their ambitions and plans. None of them actually implement those plans, except for the two clubs who are selected by FFA. The ones who miss out disappear. - Open 2nd Division - Bidding process where multiple parties state their ambitions and plans. The 8-14 clubs who are selected will all implement those plans. Those that miss out will also likely implement their plans given they can still reach the 2nd Div via promotion. In one case you have only two clubs investing in football. In the other you have at least the initial entrants investing, plus all the others with ambition to gain promotion. If we want football clubs and people to invest in the game, give them a reason to. Yep. For me it also really puts into perspective the effort a team from Tassie is going to have to go to be included. If it's to be an NPLTas club they're going to have to chase government support aswell as your Belteky/Stamoulis types to fund/sponsor it. I would hope, with the A-League expansion up in the air, that South Hobart or whoever is else interested would approach Belteky and Stamoulis about funding them instead.
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TheSelectFew
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. If you want cheap DVDs or Games go to BigW The reason why they can do this is by a magical economic thing called product lines. People shop at BigW to get a range of stuff which the owners make money from, and they can afford to cut the cost of electronics because one pays for the other. If BigW ditched electronics then they'll lose customers Football, without a W League, youth league, FFA cup, state feds, national youth and womens teams would be fucked. Football as just the A League and just the Socceroos would be a paradox because neither would have the same commercial value they have without the other 80% non profitable side of the game giving it interest This is why the AFL can afford to have the AFLW and a VicKick program. This is why they can afford to fund football in other countries. You think those Mozambique leagues are paying for themselves? The AFL, BBL and other leagues all have additional leagues such as womens, youth etc... which will never have enough funding to stand on its own feet The argument here seems to be we can do everything except for a second division, even though as I have stated it is merely a different conference to the first tier I'm glad you're not in charge of football in this country because you'd cull everything that isn't of commercial interest. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we lost funding for Futsal... The W_league and Matilda's are politically-correct imposts of doing business in today's 'modern and equality driven " world. Explain why without the W-League, the Matilda's and the FFA Cup, the A-League and Socceroos would be fucked? And Futsal-Tom Rogic aside-please. Yeah ignore Neymar and Ronaldhino too. Yes I'm sure without futsal being funded by the Brazillian FA Neymar and Ronaldinho would never have made it. Your argument was that it wasn't worthy of funding. My argument and I'm sure it parallels with Bluebird's is that it is definitely worthy of funding. But hey, you know best Pauly. Yeah except your argument is not actually backed up by evidence. The only Australian who went from futsal to football Rogic finds it too hard to play on a full-sized pitch for more than 60 minutes. He seemed to manage okay in the Champions League. Oh well.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. If you want cheap DVDs or Games go to BigW The reason why they can do this is by a magical economic thing called product lines. People shop at BigW to get a range of stuff which the owners make money from, and they can afford to cut the cost of electronics because one pays for the other. If BigW ditched electronics then they'll lose customers Football, without a W League, youth league, FFA cup, state feds, national youth and womens teams would be fucked. Football as just the A League and just the Socceroos would be a paradox because neither would have the same commercial value they have without the other 80% non profitable side of the game giving it interest This is why the AFL can afford to have the AFLW and a VicKick program. This is why they can afford to fund football in other countries. You think those Mozambique leagues are paying for themselves? The AFL, BBL and other leagues all have additional leagues such as womens, youth etc... which will never have enough funding to stand on its own feet The argument here seems to be we can do everything except for a second division, even though as I have stated it is merely a different conference to the first tier I'm glad you're not in charge of football in this country because you'd cull everything that isn't of commercial interest. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we lost funding for Futsal... The W_league and Matilda's are politically-correct imposts of doing business in today's 'modern and equality driven " world. Explain why without the W-League, the Matilda's and the FFA Cup, the A-League and Socceroos would be fucked? And Futsal-Tom Rogic aside-please. Yeah ignore Neymar and Ronaldhino too. Yes I'm sure without futsal being funded by the Brazillian FA Neymar and Ronaldinho would never have made it. Your argument was that it wasn't worthy of funding. My argument and I'm sure it parallels with Bluebird's is that it is definitely worthy of funding. But hey, you know best Pauly. Yeah except your argument is not actually backed up by evidence. The only Australian who went from futsal to football Rogic finds it too hard to play on a full-sized pitch for more than 60 minutes.
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. If you want cheap DVDs or Games go to BigW The reason why they can do this is by a magical economic thing called product lines. People shop at BigW to get a range of stuff which the owners make money from, and they can afford to cut the cost of electronics because one pays for the other. If BigW ditched electronics then they'll lose customers Football, without a W League, youth league, FFA cup, state feds, national youth and womens teams would be fucked. Football as just the A League and just the Socceroos would be a paradox because neither would have the same commercial value they have without the other 80% non profitable side of the game giving it interest This is why the AFL can afford to have the AFLW and a VicKick program. This is why they can afford to fund football in other countries. You think those Mozambique leagues are paying for themselves? The AFL, BBL and other leagues all have additional leagues such as womens, youth etc... which will never have enough funding to stand on its own feet The argument here seems to be we can do everything except for a second division, even though as I have stated it is merely a different conference to the first tier I'm glad you're not in charge of football in this country because you'd cull everything that isn't of commercial interest. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we lost funding for Futsal... The W_league and Matilda's are politically-correct imposts of doing business in today's 'modern and equality driven " world. Explain why without the W-League, the Matilda's and the FFA Cup, the A-League and Socceroos would be fucked? And Futsal-Tom Rogic aside-please. Yeah ignore Neymar and Ronaldhino too. Yes I'm sure without futsal being funded by the Brazillian FA Neymar and Ronaldinho would never have made it. Your argument was that it wasn't worthy of funding. My argument and I'm sure it parallels with Bluebird's is that it is definitely worthy of funding. But hey, you know best Pauly.
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aussieshorter
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.2K,
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+xI suggest Roberts1 and co listen to the Clubland podcast on FNR from yesterday. They interviewed Troy Bingham who is the newly re-founded Gold Coast United CEO. He declared their aspirations for the club to play in the Championship and it really shows the level clubs are going to aspiring for the Championship and the level these 'ethnic' clubs will have to go to if they want to keep up. Really emphasises this is about growing football pathways and culture and not the 'ethnics' trying to wrest back control. It's quite impressive the lengths some of these clubs are going to to set themselves up for future National League aspirations. How anyone can think the Championship is a bad thing, just hearing the minimal bits and pieces we have heard so far before a bid has even been put in, is beyond me.. Few points: - Building relationships with grassroots clubs on the Gold Coast. Within 3 months they already have up to 15 clubs signed up who get expert coaching in return. - Offering minimal fees for players to start with. 1-2 scholarship players in each age group. Through sponsorship's from local businesses, with in 2 years plan to have no fees for their players. Acknowledged how high some fees are and really emphasised they want every kid to have a chance at top level football. They had up to 120 kids trial for each age group which added up to well over 1000 kids. - Have also set up an academy for players who don't quite make the squad but want to keep improving. Kids play and train with local FGC club and train 1-2 nights a week at GCU. Helps the club watch the development of players so none slip through the cracks. - Only 4 fulltime staff who are all coaches. 4 A-License coaches. Board are all volunteers. - Plans to build a boutique approx. 5000 seat stadium somewhere on the coast in the future. Want to have adjoining training fields and set up an onsite academy with world class training facilities. Set it up for a destination for overseas training camps etc leverage on the high interst of tourism throughout Asia for the GC. And this is the power of providing opportunity and incentive to ambitious clubs. GCU are in no way guaranteed to be accepted into the Championship, and yet they are planning and improving their club in order to give themselves a chance. And what happens if they don't get admitted to the Championship? We will have a club in the NPL who has better facilities, coaches and infrastructure than if they'd done nothing. I think I said this somewhere before, but this is the difference between expanding the A-League versus implementing an open second division: - A-League expansion requires a bidding process where multiple parties state their ambitions and plans. None of them actually implement those plans, except for the two clubs who are selected by FFA. The ones who miss out disappear. - Open 2nd Division - Bidding process where multiple parties state their ambitions and plans. The 8-14 clubs who are selected will all implement those plans. Those that miss out will also likely implement their plans given they can still reach the 2nd Div via promotion. In one case you have only two clubs investing in football. In the other you have at least the initial entrants investing, plus all the others with ambition to gain promotion. If we want football clubs and people to invest in the game, give them a reason to.
____________________________________________________________________________ TPO Rankings - the FIFA World Rankings for Australian football clubs
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. If you want cheap DVDs or Games go to BigW The reason why they can do this is by a magical economic thing called product lines. People shop at BigW to get a range of stuff which the owners make money from, and they can afford to cut the cost of electronics because one pays for the other. If BigW ditched electronics then they'll lose customers Football, without a W League, youth league, FFA cup, state feds, national youth and womens teams would be fucked. Football as just the A League and just the Socceroos would be a paradox because neither would have the same commercial value they have without the other 80% non profitable side of the game giving it interest This is why the AFL can afford to have the AFLW and a VicKick program. This is why they can afford to fund football in other countries. You think those Mozambique leagues are paying for themselves? The AFL, BBL and other leagues all have additional leagues such as womens, youth etc... which will never have enough funding to stand on its own feet The argument here seems to be we can do everything except for a second division, even though as I have stated it is merely a different conference to the first tier I'm glad you're not in charge of football in this country because you'd cull everything that isn't of commercial interest. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we lost funding for Futsal... The W_league and Matilda's are politically-correct imposts of doing business in today's 'modern and equality driven " world. Explain why without the W-League, the Matilda's and the FFA Cup, the A-League and Socceroos would be fucked? And Futsal-Tom Rogic aside-please. Yeah ignore Neymar and Ronaldhino too. Yes I'm sure without futsal being funded by the Brazillian FA Neymar and Ronaldinho would never have made it.
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bigpoppa
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.6K,
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I suggest Roberts1 and co listen to the Clubland podcast on FNR from yesterday.
They interviewed Troy Bingham who is the newly re-founded Gold Coast United CEO. He declared their aspirations for the club to play in the Championship and it really shows the level clubs are going to aspiring for the Championship and the level these 'ethnic' clubs will have to go to if they want to keep up. Really emphasises this is about growing football pathways and culture and not the 'ethnics' trying to wrest back control.
It's quite impressive the lengths some of these clubs are going to to set themselves up for future National League aspirations. How anyone can think the Championship is a bad thing, just hearing the minimal bits and pieces we have heard so far before a bid has even been put in, is beyond me..
Few points:
- Building relationships with grassroots clubs on the Gold Coast. Within 3 months they already have up to 15 clubs signed up who get expert coaching in return.
- Offering minimal fees for players to start with. 1-2 scholarship players in each age group. Through sponsorship's from local businesses, with in 2 years plan to have no fees for their players. Acknowledged how high some fees are and really emphasised they want every kid to have a chance at top level football. They had up to 120 kids trial for each age group which added up to well over 1000 kids.
- Have also set up an academy for players who don't quite make the squad but want to keep improving. Kids play and train with local FGC club and train 1-2 nights a week at GCU. Helps the club watch the development of players so none slip through the cracks.
- Only 4 fulltime staff who are all coaches. 4 A-License coaches. Board are all volunteers.
- Plans to build a boutique approx. 5000 seat stadium somewhere on the coast in the future. Want to have adjoining training fields and set up an onsite academy with world class training facilities. Set it up for a destination for overseas training camps etc leverage on the high interst of tourism throughout Asia for the GC.
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sydneyfc1987
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
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+x+xNo point discussing this topic when half the people here are multis thats how the terrorists win You should all just agree with everything he writes for a week. He'll leave the forums soon after.
(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
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+xI love football. I love watching top quality football live here in my own city. I love it as a sport, more than I care for any individual club that I follow. If Victory folded or were taken over tomorrow, I'd be heartbroken, but i'd still follow the sport here, and eventually choose a team to watch in the top level. I don't see that is the case with the AAFC and some of the old NSL bitters, who seem to care more about their social club than the sport of football itself! How old were you when Victory were formed, and who did you follow before that? And if Victory were relegated to a lower league (rather than taken over or folded) would you abandon them to watch City or the new local team in the top division?
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 23K,
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Roberts1 fear is wonderful. Convinced that no-one is interested, but terrified that it's going to happen... Claims it's just 20 people, can't quite grasp that there are over a hundred clubs signed up, each with memberships that support the move, that the PFA support it, that the HAL owners support it, that FIFA and the AFC support it, that the media supports it. That virtually every person involved in the professional game, with the exception of FFA employees, supports it. Yep, just 20 forum members on 442 driving the whole thing. You can taste the fear...
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 30K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. If you want cheap DVDs or Games go to BigW The reason why they can do this is by a magical economic thing called product lines. People shop at BigW to get a range of stuff which the owners make money from, and they can afford to cut the cost of electronics because one pays for the other. If BigW ditched electronics then they'll lose customers Football, without a W League, youth league, FFA cup, state feds, national youth and womens teams would be fucked. Football as just the A League and just the Socceroos would be a paradox because neither would have the same commercial value they have without the other 80% non profitable side of the game giving it interest This is why the AFL can afford to have the AFLW and a VicKick program. This is why they can afford to fund football in other countries. You think those Mozambique leagues are paying for themselves? The AFL, BBL and other leagues all have additional leagues such as womens, youth etc... which will never have enough funding to stand on its own feet The argument here seems to be we can do everything except for a second division, even though as I have stated it is merely a different conference to the first tier I'm glad you're not in charge of football in this country because you'd cull everything that isn't of commercial interest. I'd hate to think what it would be like if we lost funding for Futsal... The W_league and Matilda's are politically-correct imposts of doing business in today's 'modern and equality driven " world. Explain why without the W-League, the Matilda's and the FFA Cup, the A-League and Socceroos would be fucked? And Futsal-Tom Rogic aside-please. Yeah ignore Neymar and Ronaldhino too.
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Benjamin
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 23K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xNo point discussing this topic when half the people here are multis Mods can see IPs too, but they don't do anything about it. There are a couple of members out there who I am positive are multis, but when you look at the IPs they are different. Not much we can do if the user doesn't have a fixed IP or is using a VPN.
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paladisious
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 39K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. why are you so concerned with whether its professional or not. someone here talked about the ice hockey national league. if ice hockey can have a national league football can have a 2nd division. Full stop. We could have a second division with what clubs already spend easily. These leagues (BBL, AFL) you're talking about aren't just professional, they're enormously lucrative. Players get payed millions. Thats not this. If there will be professionals in 2nd div they'll be getting 45k not millions. None of these arguments against a 2nd div hold up to any scrutiny. Are you serious? Professional means getting paid to play. " AIHL players are amateurs. Players are not paid to play in the AIHL, but receive other benefits such as the use of a car, and accommodation during the season." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Ice_Hockey_LeagueThe guys in the State leagues are getting paid circa $1000 each per week. On top of their day jobs. In a national second tier, do you think they will demand a) less b) more c) the same. Yes I'm serious. Professional means getting paid enough to play without having another job. I don't understand your point in the slightest. Don't you understand that players WANT a second division, that they WANT to play in it. Even keeping exactly the same income, any ambitious young player would jump at the chance to play on the national stage. You really think clubs would have trouble finding players??? I'm not saying clubs and the players can't be professional, on the cash NPL clubs are paying NOW many players could quit their day. What I'm saying is there is no reason they have to be. The players DO NOT DECIDE IF THE LEAGUE IS SUSTAINABLE. The fans and sponsors who pay to watch do Why don't you pick one argument and stick with it. If the clubs already spend a lot of money of players which you've admitted, and are absolutely fine, why can't biggest/best of the NPLs get together and form a national league? What is the extra thing on top of what the state league clubs already do that is so unattainable in your mind? As far as I can tell the only necessary extra cost is logistics (ie travel), which is nowhere near what clubs are already spending. So what exactly is your opposition to a 2nd division? The argument is entirely consistent: viability. In that regard the single fact that players and coaches want a national stage is irrelevant . What matters is who will pay to watch and who will sponsor it? Because the whole point of it is promotion to the A-League, and if the promoted team doesn't bring in the additional crowds. ratings and sponsors it becomes another anchor sinking the A-League. I don't see one single piece of evidence that any of these clubs have the capacity to bring in better crowds/ratings or sponsors than the worst A-league club. I've looked back on the last few pages and no one has argued anything along the lines of "If SM were promoted they would sell out the MCG weekly!!" Yeah, but only because Horto got banned.
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TheSelectFew
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. why are you so concerned with whether its professional or not. someone here talked about the ice hockey national league. if ice hockey can have a national league football can have a 2nd division. Full stop. We could have a second division with what clubs already spend easily. These leagues (BBL, AFL) you're talking about aren't just professional, they're enormously lucrative. Players get payed millions. Thats not this. If there will be professionals in 2nd div they'll be getting 45k not millions. None of these arguments against a 2nd div hold up to any scrutiny. Are you serious? Professional means getting paid to play. " AIHL players are amateurs. Players are not paid to play in the AIHL, but receive other benefits such as the use of a car, and accommodation during the season." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Ice_Hockey_LeagueThe guys in the State leagues are getting paid circa $1000 each per week. On top of their day jobs. In a national second tier, do you think they will demand a) less b) more c) the same. Yes I'm serious. Professional means getting paid enough to play without having another job. I don't understand your point in the slightest. Don't you understand that players WANT a second division, that they WANT to play in it. Even keeping exactly the same income, any ambitious young player would jump at the chance to play on the national stage. You really think clubs would have trouble finding players??? I'm not saying clubs and the players can't be professional, on the cash NPL clubs are paying NOW many players could quit their day. What I'm saying is there is no reason they have to be. The players DO NOT DECIDE IF THE LEAGUE IS SUSTAINABLE. The fans and sponsors who pay to watch do Why don't you pick one argument and stick with it. If the clubs already spend a lot of money of players which you've admitted, and are absolutely fine, why can't biggest/best of the NPLs get together and form a national league? What is the extra thing on top of what the state league clubs already do that is so unattainable in your mind? As far as I can tell the only necessary extra cost is logistics (ie travel), which is nowhere near what clubs are already spending. So what exactly is your opposition to a 2nd division? The argument is entirely consistent: viability. In that regard the single fact that players and coaches want a national stage is irrelevant . What matters is who will pay to watch and who will sponsor it? Because the whole point of it is promotion to the A-League, and if the promoted team doesn't bring in the additional crowds. ratings and sponsors it becomes another anchor sinking the A-League. I don't see one single piece of evidence that any of these clubs have the capacity to bring in better crowds/ratings or sponsors than the worst A-league club. I've looked back on the last few pages and no one has argued anything along the lines of "If SM were promoted they would sell out the MCG weekly!!" Why would they do that? They would have to rent it out. SM already have their own stadium. They don't have to pay extortion fees like A-League clubs have to. Another thing Paukc neglects to mention when he cries sustainability.
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paulbagzFC
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paulc gonna single handedly get this thread to 100 pages. -PB
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aufc_ole
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x‘16 groups of new fans ‘That’s 16x0 equals 0There are no fans that can come from this BS league.Everyone has already jumped ship — ask the Hellas bitters - 99% have gone to MVThe 1% that remain that’s 20 people pollute this forum with BS daily as per this stupid topic Effectively the number of people who paid a ridiculous fee to play the game in Victoria for "tin pot unsupported nothing clubs" equates to those who bothered to watch the Sydney derby, the A League's biggest game, nationally and free across metro Australia And that's those who play in a state dominated by the AFL and Aussie rules grounds, let alone NSW where the fucking game was being played The A League metrics are so low I cant believe you would actually come here to boast about them. A game with a TV deal 13% the size of the AFL, a salary cap 1/3 of the size, crowds 1/3 of the size...And the numbers continue to drop But that's OK, because it is fairing better than leagues with no money and no interest Keep on comparing your dick to a belly button I actually don't even get your point. The league is barely a decade old. Its up against a league that has some of he oldest clubs in the world of any code. In tht time it has achieved crowds 1/ 3 the size Its delusion to think that all these disparate State Clubs are suddenly going to create a league that challenges the AFL for TV dollars, and attendances. Football in this country is what is: Today's Melbournes Age has 8 stories about AFL on its homepage. Football has one on Ange and one on the Euro leagues. Its their off-season FFS. The VFL, formerly VFA, is older than the AFL yet it doesn't have a $2.5b TV deal. Its a barely watched league that some people mistake for a second division This isn't a time issue like some people here think. If it was then why did we reset the counter after nearly 30 years with the NSL? Surely you believe that we were almost 1/3 of the way towards 30k averages and a $2.5b TV deal??? In contrast the BBL, which plays a form of a game barely older than the A League (let alone the code) is getting ratings, attendances and money our game can only dream of My point wasn't that football is going to challenge the AFL any time soon. My point was this metrics obsessed dribble is out of context. The A League has failed as a commercial product. In the last 5 years the FFA have thrown everything at crowds and ratings to rescue the only two parts of the game they care about and we have seen a slide Football is what it is, as you said. No clean air. No mainstream media interest. Just a base of rusted on fans that want to see a professional competitive league What idiots here don't seem to understand is a 2nd tier and a 1st tier are two sides of the same coinSure we can have 20 teams in a single division. Give clubs 19 and 20 the same resources as clubs 1 and 2. Give them the same TV opportunities, sponsorship opportunities, and access to the same players. Imagine a business where everybody got paid the same. Where the CEO doesn't get a company car and a mobile phone unless there are resources to ensure the janitor does also I would have thought a prerequisite to a professional league would be some kind of economic realityMakes more sense to split the 20 teams into a 12 and 8 conference. One conference has more money and more sponsorship opportunities. They also have better players and prime TV spots. The second conference which features teams 19 and 20 play in smaller venues, have less money from a central pool, and don't have the best players. In other words they only have what they need - a broom, a mop, and a closet to put it in. If they want more they can climb the "corporate chain". Invest more, get more The muppets here who are so opposed to a second tier structure either think: . Anything spent on more than 10 teams is a waste of money . It is better to spend $8m on 2 clubs at the bottom of the table than $8m on 8 clubs at the bottom of the table Its not just greed and self interest holding our game back. But also stupidity Football is what it is, as you said. We either accept that and work within our limitations to get the best of our game. Or we wait 90 years and we will magically have our answer. Didn't work for the VFL. Didn't work for the NSL. But got a good feeling about this one... The problem with your argument is that in the BBL, and the AFL there is DEMAND from the public. They WILL pay to watch live. They will buy pay TV subs. They will tune to FTA. Cricket and Aussie Rules predate Australia as a federation. These sports are entrenched in the Aussie culture. And they get watch the best in the world. IF there was a public and commercial demand for a national second division, what you say makes sense. But there isn't. Its just the clubs and Federations. The A-league is going backwards for the same reason- its not meeting the needs of the fans: extra teams, new players, bigger names. why are you so concerned with whether its professional or not. someone here talked about the ice hockey national league. if ice hockey can have a national league football can have a 2nd division. Full stop. We could have a second division with what clubs already spend easily. These leagues (BBL, AFL) you're talking about aren't just professional, they're enormously lucrative. Players get payed millions. Thats not this. If there will be professionals in 2nd div they'll be getting 45k not millions. None of these arguments against a 2nd div hold up to any scrutiny. Are you serious? Professional means getting paid to play. " AIHL players are amateurs. Players are not paid to play in the AIHL, but receive other benefits such as the use of a car, and accommodation during the season." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Ice_Hockey_LeagueThe guys in the State leagues are getting paid circa $1000 each per week. On top of their day jobs. In a national second tier, do you think they will demand a) less b) more c) the same. Yes I'm serious. Professional means getting paid enough to play without having another job. I don't understand your point in the slightest. Don't you understand that players WANT a second division, that they WANT to play in it. Even keeping exactly the same income, any ambitious young player would jump at the chance to play on the national stage. You really think clubs would have trouble finding players??? I'm not saying clubs and the players can't be professional, on the cash NPL clubs are paying NOW many players could quit their day. What I'm saying is there is no reason they have to be. The players DO NOT DECIDE IF THE LEAGUE IS SUSTAINABLE. The fans and sponsors who pay to watch do Why don't you pick one argument and stick with it. If the clubs already spend a lot of money of players which you've admitted, and are absolutely fine, why can't biggest/best of the NPLs get together and form a national league? What is the extra thing on top of what the state league clubs already do that is so unattainable in your mind? As far as I can tell the only necessary extra cost is logistics (ie travel), which is nowhere near what clubs are already spending. So what exactly is your opposition to a 2nd division? The argument is entirely consistent: viability. In that regard the single fact that players and coaches want a national stage is irrelevant . What matters is who will pay to watch and who will sponsor it? Because the whole point of it is promotion to the A-League, and if the promoted team doesn't bring in the additional crowds. ratings and sponsors it becomes another anchor sinking the A-League. I don't see one single piece of evidence that any of these clubs have the capacity to bring in better crowds/ratings or sponsors than the worst A-league club. I've looked back on the last few pages and no one has argued anything along the lines of "If SM were promoted they would sell out the MCG weekly!!"
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