Because it has to be relevant to the circumstances. Every article pro mask still talks about high levels of transmission, high risk, and crowded indoor spaces. Nobody recommends seat belts for the loungeroom in case a car comes crashing through

"Some protection" for 1000 cases a day is a different mantra to preventative measures for no cases

The only region that should have mask laws arguably is Sydney. I think if you guys just accepted face masks shouldnt be made mandatory outside of lockdown the debate would have been done and dusted 12 months ago. The technicalities and semantics are moot particularly when every source being cited isnt a proper experiment. There is no proof on what you are arguing

I am glad you are finally starting to understand that many of the actions the Government is asking you to undertake are pointless.

Also I love the source you provided, a bit old but some really interesting points raised nonetheless and your quote actually highlights what I said, surgical masks are good for large droplets (ie someone sneezing on you)  but are no good for small particles (ie aerosols) which is what Covid is. Also how about this little beauty from your source:

If you are sick with COVID-19 or think you might have COVID-19, wearing a mask does not make it safe or acceptable to visit public areas or be close to other people.

So if they dont stop you getting it and they also dont stop you spreading it, what good are the masks Joe Public wears? I believe this is the definition of pointless.

Following my post from a few days ago, here's a quick story-

I have a colleague we'll call Brian. Brian works in tech and (as you can probably imagine) like many people in the tech industry is supportive of people like Bill Gates and critical of people like Trump. Since March or April last year he's very much been in the "COVID is very dangerous and we all need to take it seriously" camp, posting stories that often sound apocryphal about "super spreader" events where masses of young people apparently keeled over and died- you know the kind of stuff I'm talking about. He's been very much in the "Stopping this deadly virus is #1 priority above all else" crowd.

Then I was scrolling Fb over the weekend, and saw he'd posted a comment in a piece about second round of freedom protests that took place in Melbourne just a few days ago when the latest lockdowns were announced. I'm not going to quote his entire comment word for word, but basically he said that:

- People are reaching breaking point because many have lost their livelihoods, businesses, loved ones etc and are on the brink of oblivion
- COVID has caused our social fabric to break down
- Our governments are for gating amongst themselves, while lobby groups argue that their industry is "special" or "essential"
- We have no certainty what the future looks like, meanwhile people are losing their homes, struggling to survive and trying to get support is as clunky, filled with red-tape and at odds with reality as you would expect it to be

He went on to ask if it's any wonder we're seeing these protests? He pointed out the problem lies not with the protestors or law enforcement, as both are just symptoms of the impacts of COVID, even if many (on both sides) are lashing out and doing the wrong thing. He finished by saying that the problem is the fear, uncertainty and doubt. Everybody wants their lives back, but the world isn't allowing it to be so.

This is anecdotal of course, but to see somebody like Brian saying the kind of stuff I've been lamenting here (and elsewhere) was an eye-opener. While there are still many buying into the sunk-cost fallacy of "We've come far enough down this road, we can't throw it all away now" if somebody like Brian is coming to these realisations, I wonder how many other of the "Whatever it takes to beat the pandemic" crowd are starting to come around and say enough is enough?

CH, the enough is enough re lockdown is building up in Sydney as you may know or not.
I've been a avid music listener on the way to work but lately turned into talkback crap due to our recent way of life.
Now I know each of these jocks and stations have their own agendas but listenning to callers the feedback was just that :
I've/we've had enough, F this I want my life back.
Alot of them with this mindset.

The jock was saying will Galdy be able to hold the flock back.
Should people who have been jabbed have some looser concessions for eg....
Another week or so will be very telling for I don't see us "out" for another few weeks and more.
I don't think people will have the patience holding off till jab %'s are up to where they hope them to be.

Great logic there mate.

Next time you jump in your car, don't bother putting your seatbelt on either. Totally pointless.

CH, I have seen it first hand with various family, friends and co-workers who 12M ago couldnt lock down fast enough and were preaching to me for my casual attitude to Covid (which hasnt changed since the start of this thing). Now some of them are hardcore right wingers loosing their mind with every restriction and even the most ardent supporters have had enough.

Personally I reckon I tipped a few over the edge during the olympics as I just asked them why Japan can run an olympics with 1,300 cases a day and innumerable overseas visitors from every corner of the world, whilst Australia cant run a chook raffle with 11 cases because we are all locked down. 

Listening to pollies say there is no other way is galling as it isnt hard to look around the world and see there is, we just arent doing it

I'm in Melbourne. Compliance is very low last year due to people being over it and far less fear of getting caught.

Apart from protestors you never hear of any fines being given in Vic anymore. Govt must know this.

But as more and more people get vaccinated do they really think we will keep up any level of compliance.  Israel with over 90% adults vaccinated having 3000-4000 cases per day and up to nearly 10 deaths per day.

ACT at 55.3% first dose,Tasmania above 50%, NSW is vaccinating very fast and not far behind. and it will continue to speed up. All 3 will hit 70% in about 5 weeks or even close to end of this month. Will be really interesting to see at what first dose rate that demand starts to drop off. I think 75-80%.

And if NSW gets to 70% first doses or whatever vaccine targets she is making and they open up and get a large amount of cases - could they really lockdown again? They've all painted themselves into a terrible corner.

unlike consumer face masks, there actually is hard evidence showing the effectiveness of seat belts so not a great example on your behalf.

Using your logic, everyone should be forced to by a lotto ticket because there is a chance some poor people may win and then the government wont have to pay them the pension - actually, I need to take that back, unlike protection from masks, people do know the odds of winning lotto...

Nonsense, just propaganda pushed by leftists who have fallen for the myths forced upon us by the government and by Big Seatbelt.

They call that the horseshoe theory.

Lol.

The first/ second time round,  I was all for the lockdowns in Melbourne,  we had to have them,  once it got into the nursing homes it was fucked.  But the federal government who's responsibility it was didn't react quickly enough by stopping staff from working at multiple facilities,  and that is a result of the fed government allow the shitty casual workforce to get bigger and bigger. 

Now I'm over it,  we get the delta is different, I'm over the states trying to fuck each other over, seriously this colonial rivalry is so tiresome. 

It's frustrating  seeing the virus spreading in the same demographics here in Melbourne though,  clearly the message isn't being communicated well enough after all this time. 

Then don't even get me started with stuff ups with vaccines, my wife works in healthcare,  and had to wait until July for an appointment only to find she was pregnant and told to hold off, now she's told she can't get it and can't get an appointment.

I have friends that work in NDIS that have office roles where no one has contact with carers, families or anything of the sort. Thousands of their staff get to jump ahead of everyone because they work for the government,  meanwhile we still haven't got health care or front line workers covered.  Complete Rort.

In theory we should be able to get shit right, considering how Japan is going and what they have just done,  but fuck everyone who's in charge are morons... 

Protesters though... Majority of them are loonies and if it were Ebola we were facing they'd still be doing what they're doing because they just couldn't see the forest for the trees.

It may come as a surprise to some here, but my radio is normally tuned to Triple J. They only ever give you the case numbers in the hourly news updates (never a mention of how many tests were done in a day) and for a station that likes to consider itself as having a finger on the pulse of current social issues affecting the younger half of our nations' population, it surprises me that (at least from my hours spent listening during the week) they haven't shared this damning statistic published by the ABC:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-04/lifeline-records-highest-daily-calls-on-record/100350522

3,345 calls in a single day. That's more than COVID cases nationwide for an entire fortnight. I'd hate to think how many calls they're taking in a week, or the nature of a lot of those calls. Maybe we should be running ads with actors repeating the sentiment in some of those calls instead? Something for the "Stay the fuck at home!" crowd living in nice areas, rugged up continuing to make $ in their pyjamas to think about...

We need less 1788 and more 1901.

Not directed at the poster above necessarily but it's interesting to me how many people are now so interested in mental health.

Seems to be brought up now by the same sort of people that a year or two ago were mocking things like ruOK and telling people in general to harden up and drink cement etc

It's become sort sort of throw away line now that even every pollie has to utter too when talking about lockdowns. Well where was their care about it when they were underfunding and closing facilities and services for the last 20 years?

I've enjoyed your posts about the inevitable shitshow that will be opening up again.
Politicians having to do an about-face and change their messaging to "some deaths are acceptable" and telling us Zero is not a realistic goal etc.

We are in for quite a next 12 months. People already aren't sure what side they are on anymore

Interesting article, funny how China's dodgy vaccine is approved but Sputnik still faces obstacles

‘Notably clever’: If Russia’s vaccine is so good, why isn’t it more widely used?

A quick guide to Russia’s world first COVID vaccine - and why it’s still controversial.

Even before Russia’s brand-new COVID-19 vaccine was tested on monkeys, the director of the institute that made it had injected himself. So had his staff. Fortunately, the shot has proven both safe and effective, boasting one of the highest efficacy rates of any COVID vaccine on the market. “Australia could have done worse than ordering it,” says epidemiologist Mike Toole. “But politics are what they are, and Russia hasn’t done itself any favours by being secretive.”

“It’s an excellent vaccine,” Toole says, more than 92 per cent effective at stopping a symptomatic case of COVID. That puts it almost on par with the Western vaccines using new mRNA technology by Pfizer and Moderna.

Sputnik V is now authorised in 69 countries, and, because it doesn’t require the deep-freeze storage of the mRNA vaccines and is about 73 per cent effective at stopping COVID even after just one dose, it’s proving an attractive option for developing nations and those needing to move fast in the face of outbreaks

Sputnik’s design is “notably clever”, Toole says, for using one type of adenovirus in the first shot and another in the second. This reduces the chance that, by the second shot, the immune system will remember the adenovirus used as the Trojan horse to package the vaccine, and so start attacking it instead of the coronavirus. It’s the same reason scientists think pairing an AstraZeneca shot with different kinds of vaccines, such as Pfizer for the second dose, has proven so effective in mixed trials overseas. The first dose of Sputnik (known as Sputnik Light) has itself been paired with AstraZeneca, Moderna and Sinopharm in a large trial in Argentina. Results are still to come but the agency that markets Sputnik V, the Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF) says so far all combinations appear safe.

“The fact there is nothing immediately raises a flag for me,” says Grohmann, who previously worked at Australia’s regulator the Therapeutic Goods Administration. “Either they are not doing the monitoring and deaths are being attributed to other causes, or the vaccine is marvellous. And if it’s that good, then we should look at it closer to understand the difference with the other vector vaccines.”

Toole agrees Russia’s monitoring is dubious but notes none of the other 60-odd countries using the vaccine have reported a link to clotting either, including during trials in Argentina, Italy and the tiny republic of San Marino (which has been almost entirely vaccinated with Sputnik).

Like Grohmann, Toole thinks that politics are playing a role in resistance to Sputnik too, perhaps nowhere so much as in Russia itself, where vaccine hesitancy is among the highest in the world. (About a year after Sputnik was approved for emergency use in Russia, fewer than 20 per cent of Russians are vaccinated, despite a deadly new outbreak).

In some cities, bars and restaurants, even workplaces, are open only to those with the QR codes to prove they have been vaccinated.
And already, a black market in these coveted vaccination QR codes has sprung up – for people happy to pay for a vaccine certificate, there are reports some doctors will tip your dose of Sputnik V straight down the sink.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/notably-clever-if-russia-s-vaccine-is-so-good-why-isn-t-it-more-widely-used-20210802-p58f0i.html

Brad Hazzard is a flog.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-10/brad-hazzard-refuses-to-make-covid-health-advice-public/100365386

Compare this to vic govt who stood for an hour during our crisis answering every question every day. 

Surely there has to be a scalp in NSW soon. They're utter crooks.

Thats not saying no mistakes in Vic were made. But at least they answer and provide detailed responses. 

To me, the position has always been flatten curve/supress until we get a vaccine. Once everyone has had the chance to get vaccinated, then we've protected all that we can. If the remaining 30% are unwilling to get vaccinated, then we can't help them if they don't help themselves. 

Where does it say China's vaccine is approved? I think only Pfizer, AZ and now Moderna are approved in Australia. 

They're lining it up so Chant takes the fall imo. If anything hits the fan, they're gonna say "we acted on Chant's medical advice" etc etc.

Nope. Daily Telegraph will cover for them. 

well what do you make of this whilst the mention of crooks and incompetance....
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/moment-of-truth-for-victorian-dpp-kerri-judd-on-hotel-quarantine/news-story/c8236a617f13dd3e2891b9e3f9b88c25

Moment of truth for Victorian DPP Kerri Judd on hotel quarantine

Victorian Director of Public Prosecutions Kerri Judd on Monday received a 20,000-word, comprehensive report on why she should begin prosecutions against four current or former cabinet ministers and 16 current and past public servants for their role in the 2020 pandemic hotel quarantine disaster.

But the document did not come from WorkSafe Victoria but rather a team of Australia’s top occupational health and safety lawyers bought together and co-ordinated by Ken Phillips, chief executive of Self Employed Australia.

The lawyers and Phillips based their detailed report on the sworn evidence given in the Jennifer Coate inquiry plus Coate’s own comments.

WorkSafe has spent more than a year investigating the disaster and appears to be in breach of the Occupational Health and Safety act because it has not delivered its “investigative materials” inside its statutory deadline.

In turn, as I explained yesterday, this failure of WorkSafe to meet its statutory obligations may be causing Kerri Judd as DPP to be also in breach of the act.

If WorkSafe ever makes a report then Judd, alongside Victoria’s Solicitor-General Rowena Orr, will be able to compare the WorksSafe “investigative material” with that prepared by the OHS experts and Phillips.

Judd and Orr are among Australia’s finest silks (their sex is irrelevant). If Judd was to make recommendations not in accordance with the law it would not only trash Victorian and perhaps Australian OHS laws but would greatly damage the reputation of the legal profession in Australia. I am supremely confident in the integrity of Judd and Orr to put aside the undoubtedly enormous political implications involved and uphold the standards and traditions of Australian law.

Jennifer Coate produced an incredibly detailed 900-page report which was written in language that was difficult to read. Few read the report in full and therefore did not appreciate the huge reservoir of factual revelations hidden within the massive document.

Coate appeared to focus the thrust of her legal conclusions on conventional law and so found it difficult to reach conclusive conclusions.

Coate never looked at material she had assembled under sworn evidence or her comments from the point of view of the OHS legislation. Phillips, with the help of the lawyers, spent many weeks forensically separating out the Coate material that relates to the OHS laws. The facts Coate had uncovered stunned the OHS lawyers, who found the detail unprecedented and damning.

Phillips points out that the OHS Act places duties on employers, employees and others who have control and management of workplaces. On their web site WorkSafe says: “The OHS Act seeks to protect the health, safety and welfare of employees and other people at work. It also aims to ensure that the health and safety of the public is not put at risk by work activities.”

Offences under the OHS Act are indictable criminal offences and carry serious penalties - some including lengthy terms of imprisonment.

With the backing of the lawyers, Phillips concludes: “The Victorian government, and Victorian government departments and senior bureaucrats involved in the hotel quarantine program failed to provide systems of work that were safe and without risks to the health of their employees and to the health of the Victorian public.”

The material presented to Judd shows that the Coate inquiry clearly identifies that it was management failures, starting at the highest levels of government in Victoria, that caused the outbreaks. Those failures amount to breaches of the Victorian work safety laws and require prosecution of the government.

However Phillips and Self Employed Australia emphasise that “they do not offer a view on whether prosecution would result in a guilty finding or otherwise. That is for the courts to decide”.

What makes the occupational health and safety rules different to conventional law is that a person can commit and offence by what they do not do as well as what they actually do.

So, people occupying the position of chairman, chief executive, prime minister or premier (plus boards, cabinets and senior executives) have very clear obligations under the clauses in the act. They cannot escape the consequences of not performing those obligations by simply saying they delegated or ignored the task.

In the Coate inquiry, under oath, the Premier of Victoria stated he did not consider who was going to monitor compliance with quarantine directions. It was not something to which he would “ordinarily turn his mind”. He considered risk management to be an operational matter that he left to others.

If the courts hold that a premier is allowed to delegate that authority, then the whole senior management thrust of occupational health and safety law in Victoria and possibly Australia will be changed.

Nationwide there are clear obligations on corporate and government chiefs, stating that they cannot avoid responsibility for what happens down the chain by simple delegation. The report reveals in great detail what actually happened in hotel quarantine in Victoria, including the squabbles between public servants, the incorrect delegation of responsibility by the public servants and the role of ministers in this affair.

Judd will not be able to use the report itself in any prosecution, but she will be able to call to the courts the people who gave their evidence to Coate under oath. They will either confirm what they said in the inquiry or possibly be subject to a perjury action.

Coate herself can be a key witness given she described the program as having a “lack of proper leadership and oversight”, a “catastrophe waiting to happen” and a “disaster that tragically came to be”.

The program’s design, combined with its dysfunctional management, was the cause of the Covid-19 virus escaping the hotels with the deaths and injury that followed.

well, I recall how many couldn't recall what they were responsible for during the security/apartment block debacle.

I don't think NSW/Vic Govt's can stand on any moral grounds let alone being honest answering to the public - both tarred with the same brush divided by a border.
One just put on a better show infront of the media, nice deflecting and it works to some of the rank and file.
Spare us, nicely.

100% and I hate this new trend those scum are using to avoid a question.

The faux outrage!

'How dare you, she is working 18 hours a day', 'I will not waste my time answering that', 'I resent the implication' etc.

So that's it folks. Don't ask any tough questions because the people 'managing' covid are working long hours.

What about this little doozy. https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/palaszczuk-government-conducts-half-a-million-dollar-secret-covid-polling/ar-AAN91bu

It's like a Hollowmen episode. Policy by focus group. 

Keep the NRL going because 'bread and circus's'. 

And, I only found out today when the dopey fuckers went through the aged care facilities vaxxing the oldies they didn't do the fucking staff at the same time.

I mean what the fuck?!  

Are you joking? What a friggin shitshow. YOU'RE RIGHT THERE!!!! Vax everyone.

As for Kerry Chant she said we 'underestimated the delta variant' or something along those lines and the journalist said, and I'm paraphrasing here, 'how could you not have known seing this had all played out in England in the weeks beforehand.'

Do not one of these clowns ever pick up a phone and say hey England/Norway/Sweden/Italy/Israel, what is and isn't working for you over there? Anything we should know?

Honestly what are these bozos doing. 

Indeed. Infuriating and the latest from the political PR schools

A - "when were you advised to lockdown"
B- "how dare you insult the hard working nurses of this state"
A- "Um"
B- "Soldiers died for this country. I will not let you desecrate this news conference"