Muz
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On Trump. Puts out a statement blaming Biden for the pullout but then this. (Which they tried to delete.) https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1427236056731160576/photo/1There's a Trump tweet for every occasion. and this. https://twitter.com/thiruverseII/status/1427238643303817219/photo/1
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Muz
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Great article here. https://www.smh.com.au/national/mission-demolished-afghanistan-s-hollywood-democracy-crumbles-20210816-p58j0j.htmlCouple of snippets. The US leadership doesn’t seem to have been lying so much as uncomprehending. It was only five weeks ago that President Joe Biden said, “the likelihood there’s going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely”. The officers and officials who briefed him evidently had no idea. Of the seven main conclusions we can draw from the experience, that’s the first. For all its size and expertise, the superpower has demonstrated once again that it doesn’t know what it’s doing. It’s bad at strategy but believes its own propaganda. These two factors go a long way to explaining why it hasn’t won a major war since World War Two.
And. How so? Before the US and its allies invaded Afghanistan, the Taliban had been unable to control all of the country as it fought the dogged resistance of the Northern Alliance. But today the Taliban not only controls more of the country than ever, it now has possession of all the weaponry that the US-led coalition left behind. For the first time, the Taliban will have its own air force.
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tsf
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Also how’s that 500 million spent on war museum to honour our ‘heroes’ of Afghanistan like Ben Roberts Smith? By the likes of Kerry stokes and Morrison to justify the next war to make $$$$$$ keep themselves in power. Utterly shameful.
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tsf
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+xGreat article here. https://www.smh.com.au/national/mission-demolished-afghanistan-s-hollywood-democracy-crumbles-20210816-p58j0j.htmlCouple of snippets. The US leadership doesn’t seem to have been lying so much as uncomprehending. It was only five weeks ago that President Joe Biden said, “the likelihood there’s going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely”. The officers and officials who briefed him evidently had no idea. Of the seven main conclusions we can draw from the experience, that’s the first. For all its size and expertise, the superpower has demonstrated once again that it doesn’t know what it’s doing. It’s bad at strategy but believes its own propaganda. These two factors go a long way to explaining why it hasn’t won a major war since World War Two.
And. How so? Before the US and its allies invaded Afghanistan, the Taliban had been unable to control all of the country as it fought the dogged resistance of the Northern Alliance. But today the Taliban not only controls more of the country than ever, it now has possession of all the weaponry that the US-led coalition left behind. For the first time, the Taliban will have its own air force. But if you invested in those companies your shares have risen x10 times!
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paladisious
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You know it's bad when people feel they have a better chance holding onto the outside of a transport jet than living under the new regime.
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dirk vanadidas
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Toyota had been banking on selling more pick up trucks to the Taliban, but have lost out to the second hand USA Humvees left behind
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xToyota had been banking on selling more pick up trucks to the Taliban, but have lost out to the second hand USA Humvees left behind The advertising jingle writes itself though: "Oh what a feeling .... Beheadings"
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paladisious
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+xFor the first time, the Taliban will have its own air force. It's since been reported that the Afghan air force ran away to Uzbekistan with the bulk of their attack aircraft and helicopters: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42040/dozens-of-u-s-bought-afghan-air-force-aircraft-are-now-orphaned-at-an-uzbek-airfieldI doubt the Taliban will be able to do too much with whatever's left.
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dirk vanadidas
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Biden is a dead man walking, quite literally.
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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dirk vanadidas
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Er China will help out with belts and roads initiative , believe have already lent 6Billion to taliban
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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dirk vanadidas
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All those Biden voters must be turning in their graves
Europe is funding the war not Chelsea football club
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Burztur
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Doubt it. This is probably the most popular decision Biden has made. Execution was sloppy but the decision would have majority support. He probably made his defining speech this week as well.
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paladisious
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+xEr China will help out with belts and roads initiative , believe have already lent 6Billion to taliban The Taliban takeover is arguably an even bigger headache for China than for the US. Instability on their border, inspiration for the nearby and ethnically related Uyghurs, and the BRI cut down the middle. Maybe they can be the next superpower to have a forever war there?
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paladisious
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+xDoubt it. This is probably the most popular decision Biden has made. Execution was sloppy but the decision would have majority support. He probably made his defining speech this week as well. His point that their collapse happened so quickly is more reason why they should have left makes sense to me, looks like this would have happened whenever the Western forces left whether it was five or ten years ago or five or ten years into the future, the only difference would be more bloodshed.
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paladisious
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This has changed my mind, I'm now of the opinion that the Western forces should have stayed for air support: https://twitter.com/scotfoodjames/status/1428747865933889543?s=19
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Damn good point about the equivalency of the situation in South Korea.....
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Muz
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+xDamn good point about the equivalency of the situation in South Korea..... True enough but why is it America's responsibility? (Yes they invaded them initially but it was a 'coalition' after all.) They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. What's the point of NATO? They dead set do nothing ever. Sat on their arses during the breakup of Yugoslavia.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+xDamn good point about the equivalency of the situation in South Korea..... True enough but why is it America's responsibility? (Yes they invaded them initially but it was a 'coalition' after all.) They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. What's the point of NATO? They dead set do nothing ever. Sat on their arses during the breakup of Yugoslavia. You could argue the same for the Korean conflict though? The US foreign policy of self proclaimed Sherriff of the free world carries with it a moral and ethical responsibility to not only eliminate the threat these "baddies" might pose to US citizens but to also NOT leave the people of the country they are "freeing from oppression" in a worse off situation than they found them. Otherwise they are no better than every other colonizing empire through out history and should not be confused when they are seen as no better than the British in Africa, or the Ottomans in the Balkans etc etc. As for the breakup of Yugoslavia, you'll find that the citizens of Belgrade may disagree with you about the NATO bombings they had to endure and the food shortages and economic embargoes that forced a new exodus of migration (yet again) in the 90s.
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Muz
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+x+x+xDamn good point about the equivalency of the situation in South Korea..... True enough but why is it America's responsibility? (Yes they invaded them initially but it was a 'coalition' after all.) They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. What's the point of NATO? They dead set do nothing ever. Sat on their arses during the breakup of Yugoslavia. You could argue the same for the Korean conflict though? The US foreign policy of self proclaimed Sherriff of the free world carries with it a moral and ethical responsibility to not only eliminate the threat these "baddies" might pose to US citizens but to also NOT leave the people of the country they are "freeing from oppression" in a worse off situation than they found them. Otherwise they are no better than every other colonizing empire through out history and should not be confused when they are seen as no better than the British in Africa, or the Ottomans in the Balkans etc etc. As for the breakup of Yugoslavia, you'll find that the citizens of Belgrade may disagree with you about the NATO bombings they had to endure and the food shortages and economic embargoes that forced a new exodus of migration (yet again) in the 90s. Yeah NATO did the bare minimum and only after the US heaped pressure on them. Pretty much watched Moslems get marched away to be massacred in Srebinca. Absolute disgraceful scenes.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+xDamn good point about the equivalency of the situation in South Korea..... True enough but why is it America's responsibility? (Yes they invaded them initially but it was a 'coalition' after all.) They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. What's the point of NATO? They dead set do nothing ever. Sat on their arses during the breakup of Yugoslavia. You could argue the same for the Korean conflict though? The US foreign policy of self proclaimed Sherriff of the free world carries with it a moral and ethical responsibility to not only eliminate the threat these "baddies" might pose to US citizens but to also NOT leave the people of the country they are "freeing from oppression" in a worse off situation than they found them. Otherwise they are no better than every other colonizing empire through out history and should not be confused when they are seen as no better than the British in Africa, or the Ottomans in the Balkans etc etc. As for the breakup of Yugoslavia, you'll find that the citizens of Belgrade may disagree with you about the NATO bombings they had to endure and the food shortages and economic embargoes that forced a new exodus of migration (yet again) in the 90s. Yeah NATO did the bare minimum and only after the US heaped pressure on them. Pretty much watched Moslems get marched away to be massacred in Srebinca. Absolute disgraceful scenes. And the end result 30 years later? A massive US military base in a fabricated nation slap bang in the middle of the Balkans... Why are they still there?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+xDamn good point about the equivalency of the situation in South Korea..... True enough but why is it America's responsibility? (Yes they invaded them initially but it was a 'coalition' after all.) They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. What's the point of NATO? They dead set do nothing ever. Sat on their arses during the breakup of Yugoslavia. You could argue the same for the Korean conflict though? The US foreign policy of self proclaimed Sherriff of the free world carries with it a moral and ethical responsibility to not only eliminate the threat these "baddies" might pose to US citizens but to also NOT leave the people of the country they are "freeing from oppression" in a worse off situation than they found them. Otherwise they are no better than every other colonizing empire through out history and should not be confused when they are seen as no better than the British in Africa, or the Ottomans in the Balkans etc etc. As for the breakup of Yugoslavia, you'll find that the citizens of Belgrade may disagree with you about the NATO bombings they had to endure and the food shortages and economic embargoes that forced a new exodus of migration (yet again) in the 90s. Yeah NATO did the bare minimum and only after the US heaped pressure on them. Pretty much watched Moslems get marched away to be massacred in Srebinca. Absolute disgraceful scenes. And the end result 30 years later? A massive US military base in a fabricated nation slap bang in the middle of the Balkans... Why are they still there? a small hint: Camp Bondsteel is not open to inspections by the Committee for the Prevention of Torture (CPT), which has the right to visit all "places of detention" of the member states of the Council of Europe. Negotiations with KFOR were underway, but they have been suspended since Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence was not recognized by the Council of Europe. The United States Army had been criticized for using the base as a detention facility housing the detainees who were suspected of terrorism. [5] In November 2005, Alvaro Gil-Robles, the human rights envoy of the Council of Europe, described the camp as a "smaller version of Guantanamo" following a visit. [6][7][8] The US Army denied the accusation and stated that there were no secret detention facilities in the Camp. [9]
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tsf
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One of the US architects of the bombing of Belgrade was given an exclusive contract to mine Kosovo.
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Carlito
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+xOne of the US architects of the bombing of Belgrade was given an exclusive contract to mine Kosovo. Hmm.
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Muz
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The Balkans make the Israel / Palestine thingo look like a mild disagreement between mates about whether sauce should be kept in the fridge or not. Staying well out if this.
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Carlito
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+xThe Balkans make the Israel / Palestine thingo look like a mild disagreement between mates about whether sauce should be kept in the fridge or not. Staying well out if this. I'm married to a bosnian and she even goes bosnia is still very much divided .
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tsf
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Someone once said to me in croatia...."in the world you have black and white. In the balkans we have grey"
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Carlito
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+xSomeone once said to me in croatia...."in the world you have black and white. In the balkans we have grey" Yep. It's still a mess in the Balkans. Even my wife states we try to stay our of it with family over there .
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Burztur
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The US made a deal with the Taliban to pull out. That's why there was 18 months of no US casualties. Mind you, execution for withdrawal was terrible. My guess is that the Pentagon was expecting Biden to backflip and troops were not going to leave (that's also why supplies and equipment wasn't shifted out). Apparently, this is what happened with Obama as well - he wanted to withdraw from Iraq too. The Pentagon just left supplies in Iraq, and said they couldn't leave all their stuff there. To also say that it was teachers v Taliban is also misleading. The US spent 20 years training Afghan forces - the 300k that gets bandied about. If they're not ready after 20 years, then they never will be. As for Korea, I think South Korea can look after itself and I'm sure many Koreans would be happy for the US to remain and ally, but without the bases.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xOne of the US architects of the bombing of Belgrade was given an exclusive contract to mine Kosovo. Maybe ol' Slobodan had weapons of mass destruction????
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xThe US made a deal with the Taliban to pull out. That's why there was 18 months of no US casualties. Mind you, execution for withdrawal was terrible. My guess is that the Pentagon was expecting Biden to backflip and troops were not going to leave (that's also why supplies and equipment wasn't shifted out). Apparently, this is what happened with Obama as well - he wanted to withdraw from Iraq too. The Pentagon just left supplies in Iraq, and said they couldn't leave all their stuff there. To also say that it was teachers v Taliban is also misleading. The US spent 20 years training Afghan forces - the 300k that gets bandied about. If they're not ready after 20 years, then they never will be. As for Korea, I think South Korea can look after itself and I'm sure many Koreans would be happy for the US to remain and ally, but without the bases. Hahahahahhahah thats a good one :)
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